Gernby

iTrader: (1)

I can see that. I was rude at least a few times, but that's easy on a forum. It just gets so irritating reading the same words over and over and over and over again just because people like to post even if they don't have anything of value to type.

How many times has someone posted that it only takes 3-5 minutes to fill up a tank, and how many times have I acknowledged that in this thread? Of course, each of those times I also explained that it isn't the 3-5 minutes I'm worried about.

I've read a few other threads about pumping gas with the engine running on other forums in the last few days, and they all go the same way. There's one person like myself who actually questions tradition, and there are a few with good insight and suggestions. However, most of the posts are written by people who obviously just feel like typing something even though they really don't know anything about the topic. Of course, I still haven't been able to find anything that would indicate that there is any danger whatsoever with modern cars other than static that has nothing to do with the running engine.

Regarding the laws, I think it's absolutely stupid to have laws about things that can't even be shown to be needed. If you can't find a single bit of evidence on Google that a running engine has ever been blamed for a fire at a gas pump, why have a law about it? It's easy to find evidence that speeding is dangerous, or driving while intoxicated. It's also easy to find evidence (as linked above) about the danger of wearing a wool sweater in the winter while pumping gas. Why aren't there laws about that?

Gernby

iTrader: (1)

Cigarrettes don't really burn very hot. You can toss a lit cigarrette into a bucket of gasoline, and it will just go out. It's really the butane lighter that is dangerous.

MythBuster

I never figured out why it is safer to turn the engine off at gas stations.

The risk of generating spark at the time the engine is started is higher than generating spark when the engine is in operation.

We had an explosion in one of Aramco refineries because there was a gas leak and the ignition source was an operator starting one of the refinery cars. The report mentioned that there were car driven by the area and nothing happened until this un lucky operator turned the ignition switch.

We have to realize that the load on the electrical circuit is much higher when starting the car due to the "in rush" currents to overcome the static friction and the inertia.

Apology for not reading the complete thread, but on what basis "scientificly" keeping the engine running at gas stations is unsafe.

cal_alum98

And what do you know about this topic to make you a fire expert? What qualifies someone as eligible to submit their opinion to you? You automatically dismiss viewpoints that do not align with yours while belittling people, and you get irritated? You're free to disregard posts as no one is forcing their words on you, but if you ask a question on the forums, you should expect the possibility people won't agree with you.

Yes, because Google is the authority for all research. If it's on the internet, it must be true, and if your search term doesn't garner any hits, well then it never existed.

MythBuster

sarcastic, or not it is very good assumption.

Gernby

iTrader: (1)

If I were reading stories about explosions on the internet, I would have to question their validity. However, in this case, there are NO STORIES. I can find tons of stories (true or not) about gas fires caused by cigarettes, static discharge, and cell phones, but not a single one about running engines. Does that not have significance?

I'm not a fire expert, and I don't think I've portraid myself as one; but I have had a couple scary experiences with gasoline fires though that I'm not particularly proud of. I'm just curious, especially now, why everyone is so concerned about something that might just be the least dangerous thing that we ever do. People drown in their bath tubs, but it seems that NOBODY dies from refueling with their engine running.

Evitzee

Well no seems to have come up with another reason why an engine should be shut off when refueling. It is never a good idea to leave an unattended car running. There have been instances of cars slipping out of park, or of kids or pets horsing around in the car and knocking the car out of park. I don't think we need to have the added hazard of a car moving in the forecourt with other drivers, gas pumps and other hazards present. Can you come up with a good reason why you shouldn't turn the engine off? A 5 minute warm baby doesn't count. Sometimes common sense rules.

The explosion at the BP refinery three years ago in Texas City which killed 15 people is suspected of being triggered as an idling vehicle was enveloped in the vapor cloud. Other documented cases abound with combustion occuring from idling machinery. Do not believe it can only happen when a vehicle starts up. Google 'I Remember Charlie' ..... Charlie Morecroft for more information. Sure, it's one in a million chance that something can go wrong, but sometimes they do.

Gernby

iTrader: (1)

I'll admit that from a pure baby safety standpoint, the best thing could be to just roll down the windows when pumping gas so there's no possible way the baby could die if something out of the ordinary happens to the parent while pumping gas. The point about the baby was really just that I've always shut the motor off before I had the baby (since idling is bad for an engine), but decided recently to leave it running when the baby is in the car. I'm embarrassed to say that rolling the windows down never crossed my mind. I NEVER roll them down for anything other than drive-throughs, so in my mind, they are just a part of the door.

However, through the course of this thread, I've started to think that it could be MORE DANGEROUS to everyone at a gas station to shut a modern car off since sparks are the danger, and starting a car is more likely to generate a spark than a running engine.

On another note, I wonder how much more dangerous a hybrid or electric car might be at a gas station since it relies totally on electric motors to move it. I don't know much about the electric motors that are used in hybrids, but I've never seen an electric motor that didn't make sparks.

geko29

Depends on how deep the bucket is, how long it's been sitting and what the ambient temperature is. If it's a deep (or not very full) bucket that's been there for a while and it's warm out, it'll explode before the cigarette hits the surface.

You're right in general though, I'm just a nitpicky ***.

RX_330

If something happens to you and you have all windows open, somebody is eventually going to notice the baby and take care of it until authorities or your wife arrives or something.

mmarshall

"Pros" don't apply in many areas where it is illegal, period, to run the engine while filling up. Sorry, but in those cases, opinions and excuses don't count. And if you have a weak battery and are afraid the engine won't restart, many gas stations have jump-starters.

If you live in an area where these laws apply, then just open the windows for a couple of minutes if you have to fill up with Junior in the car. Like I said in a previous post, if it's raining or cloudy, it probably won't be that hot anyway even if you leave the windows up.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

What makes you think that this is true? A properly working starter should NOT cause a spark and ignite a gas station fire. However, it is possible that a malfunctioning starter or a poorly maintained starter can. But that is true about every single electronic component in the car. Dealing with electronics, it is my personal opinion that the more components that electricity is flowing through the greater the chance of a short somewhere. I can't see any reason why starting a car would be more dangerous than a running car as a running car has hundreds of more points of failure and potential ignition sources.

It is my opinion that a starter is less likely to cause an exposed spark than something like an alternator. A starter is generally fully encased. Even if there is a major spark it is happening within the starter case. What if the alternator regulator on a running car goes bad? That could cause almost every single electronic component in your car to receive and over voltage and blow their fuses or short out. Now, I'm just talking hypothetically, but a starting a car that causes a spark and fire is hypothetical as well.

PS. If you are worried about electric motors making sparks, what about electric radiator fan and AC fan motors, electric power steering motors, electric AC blower motors? These are just a few electric motors that could be running while the car is started. What about the alternator? It is a source of AC electricity.

sirkfc

Someone else already mentioned it above, but I was thinking the same thing... Since when has "Google didn't say anything about it, therefore any laws regarding it must not be reasonable and should be disregarded by free-thinking people" worked as a defense? I looked on Google and couldn't find such an instance... I know part of this thread is just a debate, which is fine, but I think you said earlier you're inclined to leave the engine running in the future.

Just shut off the engine. Don't argue about 1 in a billion occurences... and yes, 1 in a billion is 1000X worse than 1 in a trillion, but c'mon.... it's the same... It's the same as somebody saying one's chance of winning the lottery is doubled when one buys two tickets with different numbers.... either way, you're not going to win... Just do what the sign says and shut off the engine.

MythBuster

from your post It is very evident that you are missing the point.

CK6Speed

iTrader: (1)

I guess I am, but then could you tell me how starting a car is more dangerous than a running car? I'm trying to think logically about this and being that my knowledge is not that grand I just can't figure it out.

Edit: Okay, I think I see your point. By engaging the starter you are adding +1 point of potential source of ignition I understand that. However, in my arguments defense, you are changing the entire situation though as you are no longer in the act of filling up the gas tank and pumping gas. You are also eliminating other points that can make a fire. You remove yourself from creating static electricity while fueling as you are in the car. You eliminate 2 points of escaping gas fumes as the gas pump is shut off and your gas tank is capped and closed. By the time you start the car the gas fumes that may have collected near your car while pumping has already started to dissipate and diminish.