As I told myself I'd never live in a HOA community here I am. After a year here they forced upon us that we had to pay for parking passes to park outside. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ There's over 700 homes.
Gee, I wounder why they did that?
So you have to display your pass or you get booted, by an outsider company not associated with the HOA, they just won the contract. As the schmucks drive though they look for the obvious outsiders looking to park (visitors) and boot them, and milk the cows. "That will be $140 Sir to remove the boot."
Well, it's just a long day @ work, your mind is busy, you park and don't put your pass on your rear view. They throw 2 boots on you, a large display sticker, phone # and $140 removal fee. I've parked in the same spot for 3 months, always displayed, they know the car, a extensively modified Audi parked in the same spot for 3 months with a displayed pass. It's a no brainier I have a pass.
Gee, I wounder why the pass isn't a permanent sticker?
Now, why wouldn't I always keep the pass hanging from my rearveiw? Being in the top 10 auto theft capitals in the country, I'm not comfortable DISPLAYING where I live when the community is displayed in the largest characters on the pass.
The plastered WARNING sticker on the window mentions you will be pentilzed to the fullest of law if you remove or damage the boots. So I called the cops.........only one.....but she said I can not damage the the boots, however nothing illegal about removing them.
You know the case, if you don't pay up evenly you'll get towed,so.......
I'm just going to get some f-ing dollys, install them and push the freaking Audi right into the garage you bsaterds. Give them a call to come get their num nut boots..........................and the Audi is undergoing a semi-rebuild....I don't need them off...they won't bother me keeping them on....I don't need to drive it.....a waiting game means nothing.
I own my home, they can not come on the individual property unless I grant permission, and they can not tow it as it'll be in the garage.
Currently outside with 2 boots on it, it'll just look like this again with boots on it, same spot.
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I HAVE A RADIATOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GOING TO INSTALL IT, AND RUN DOWN AND BUY DOLLIES!!!!!!!!
So I called the cops again, and also conformed it with the police supervisor. Unless damage is done to the unit, the matter is civil. I told them about the dollies, there is nothing illegal about it, once again civil.
So the phone call is going to go something like this:
-Yes, you booted my car, come down and get your boots if you want them.
-Sir, that's going to be $140 to remove them
-Oh, I don't need them removed
-Sir, after 72 hours you vehicle will be towed
-Oh, I don't know how your going to do that with it in my garage
EDIT: I figured I'd add some text so I'm not leaving everyone hanging. So here's the deal, as much as I'd like, and easy as it would be to remove the boots with my professional angle grinder it is against the law. It's not that I respect the law or generally even care about it , (I respect laws of humanity, not dumping oil, animals, etc, and therefor), but breaking the law is just going to turn nightmare. Not that I wouldn't, it's cutting them off isn't worth ~$1,500 or whatever amount they toss. They also photograph your car (with plate) during the citation, so I'm more then just a piece of paper floating around in someones citation book.
The boot company is left in the dark , they don't know wtf is going on, haven't told them squat. Remember, I don't need to drive the Audi, as a matter of fact I was supposed to be putting her on blocks the day it got booted for work and keeping it that way.
The HOA doesn't know it's gone , however, someone I'm somewhat cool with before this went down I convinced to get on the board and is on there now saw the Audi on dollies and did call me about it. So.....is he going to rat me out?
So I called the HOA Community manger, and keep in mind this is not actually the HOA booting cars but a contractor...errrrr......wait a minute........Hitler didn't do any of the killing himself......not responsible......some one else did it....she's off the hook....oh wait, no, and, ....duh..duh...duh...I have a private meeting not only with her but the whole HOA board , who for all I know, know nothing about the dollies.
-Blake Edwards, it's come to our attention you've some how managed to place your Audi in the garage, why did you do that?
So my boy pulls into the complex and past The Spot Of Their Misfortune.
-Where you car was, there's now 3 APS (Arizona Parking Solutions) patrol cars, and a 4th, a rent-a-cop standing in what was your booted spot.
-Yeah, what are the doing?
-Standing around, just standing in the spot, looking around.
-One looks like a manager, supervisor, or someone important writing on a clip board, they do NOT look happy.
-Yeah man, they look pissed, some guy is slacks and a polo shirt jotting stuff down on a clip board.
-Sweet, time to go for a walk
As I go to the mail box to get mail I didn't have, The Head Schmuck is getting into his car, *cough, *cough, where I was, backed out and left. The other car is ready to take off, has lights on, engine running, put car in gear. I get my phantom mail and he sees me, walk past back, he kills the lights and motor, and just stays there as I walk by with out incident. I almost approuched them and asked, " You guys want to come get your boots?"
So 7:30 P.M. rolls around and they call me to see if I'm home, tell them I'm in traffic, got home @ 7:45 and they showed up.
4 APS Patrol cars and the Sheriff pull up to my open garage, 5 APS officers and the head Schmuck.
(The before happening occurred over 2 hours .)
-Hello, you guys want your boots?
-Yes, that will be $140 to remove them.
-Naaaaaa, you can take them though.
-Your in possession of private property.
-You can take them, I'm not holding them.
-(The APS officers look at the Sheriff, the Sheriff looks back, and nods.) There's nothing I can do, he's not holding your property with out permission, he's allowing you to take them.
-Well, his car is on private property, we do not operate on private property.
-(Me again) The entire complex is on private property, I'm granting you permission to entire my premises to remove your boots, do you want them?
-You have stolen our property.
-No, I called the Tempe Police, would you like the badge #? I've not only talked with 2 officers, but this was run by the Super Attendant, there is nothing illegal unless I damage the boots.
-(Head schmuck)I am going to prosecute (gets on the phone, babbles away and away, a second in command starts taking pictures)
-He starts asking for my info, "Are you the home owner?"
-I could be
So he calls the local Tempe Town cops, officer shows up, APS gets to
him first, then the officer approaches me after hearing their story. I inform him, also inform of the phone call I've made requesting legalities from the Tempe Police Dept. He scratches his head, and says, well, "I going to have to call this one in." I inform head Schmuck and the Tempe officer I have a meeting with the HOA President and HOA board on Tuesday to have this resolved. The officer informs me he's like the badge # later, and mentions it will show grounds I had no intention to steal the boots, and it was also good you informed the APS I had the boots.
-(Head Schmuck) You going to be there?
-Good, because I'll be there too.
-(Officer)So as this is not a theft my Supervisor has informed me to place this under Other Theft, in which it will go to City Prosecutors or get dropped, call this # on Monday 16th to see what happens. The APS Manager/Owner/Head Schmuck says he OWNS the parking passes and ALL passes associated with this address have now been revoked, if he sees your car you will be towed.
-(Another APS officer) Hey man, I have this ticket for you, I've put down that you are refusing to pay, I just need your signature.
I read it, above my signature it says, " Acceptance for services."
-Sorry man, I not going to sign it, you haven't offered me a service.
-Oh man, we are just going to bill HOA.
-But you won't get a bill
-(Officcr to APS Schmuck) So, he's not holding your boots against will, do you want them back?
-Yes (they pull them off and go)
Officer gives me the Case # Info Card, tells me to call in Monday.
-So I won't need that badge #, I've already called in Tempe Police Headquarters and we have you on record calling in. Any questions?
-Let me tell you something, they are pissed, really pissed off, I don't know if you talked trash about his wife but he is angry! I mean, the guy is about to explode, and some thing about a picture you sent him.
-Oh, I didn't send that
-You didn't send that?
-No, it floating around on the Internet, someone else did that.
-So this is on the Internet.
-Any questions for me?
-No, thanx for everything
So this can go many ways, 1 through City Prosecutor's or 2 through HOA and fines. I have won round one. I'm going to post not only a couple pics and the head Schmuck and possibly an alley for me sticking it to the man:
So I've thinking this over and maybe decided to go with it, I will not hold any one to this however if this really goes the distance and I loose I am possibly setting up a Paypal Donation Fight The Power Fund, $5, $10, $20 what ever you want. I will not send IMs asking and of the sort. I AM NOT ASKING FOR ANYTHING NOW. If this doesn't go City Prosecutors Monday, I also have Tuesday with the HOA board to see what happens.
This is just an idea, and if you'd seriously like to contribute (upon seeing documentation, etc of the sort), along with your comments place a to tell me you'd be in favor. Once again, I'm not going to hold you to it, but if it comes down to it, I could be out some serious coin.
Update I've been 100% forward, the rule(s), the parking, the paying to park on the property, APS, EVERYTHING done AFTER 1 year + residency. I do not agree in any way, ANYBODY, resident, guest, or not:
"Being Held Immobilized Till Payment Has Been Brought Forth At The Parking Enforcements Convince To Travel Back To Said Property To Release Private Property!"
I'm going to be very irked if QUOTE "ALL SAID PARKING SPACES IN THE COMMUNITY HAVE BEEN SOLD TO HEAD SCHMUCK!"
How the hell does an OUTSIDER get to BUY ALL parking spaces on the property and have the right to tell me,"YOU CAN NO LONGER PARK ANY WHERE ON THE ENTIRE PROPERTY, EXCEPT IN YOUR GARAGE, OR YOUR VEHICLE WILL BE TOWED, AND THAT INCLUDES ALL YOUR VEHICLES!" And that is a quote! This will be a 1 large focal point in my HOA meeting, I have so many topics, words, and disgust however will keep my cool.
Another update, said Vortexer has removed @ my request the picture sent to APS. Whether or not they have printed it or not, don't know.
The Tempe Police called today, Sunday 15th, wanted to know my license plate on said Audi. Told them, they did ask any other questions or release any other information, don't know whether that's good or not .
EDIT*-Even thought my previous calls to conform I was with in all rights of the law, the incident the other night was written a Other Theft, or along the lines of Suspicion of Theft.
The officer informed me,"My Captain/Superier/Cheif has had me issue this, to be looked into futher, pending, and written up as said forth, however he has informed me NOT to place you under arrest at this time." -End EDIT*
Tomorrow, Monday June 16th, I will be working till 9:05 P.M. and will not be home till after work @ 9:30P.M. I will find out whether I will be prosecuted via phone call to receive information about my case from work sometime in the afternoon and will post once I've come home. If I have not posted by 10:30 P.M. Arizona Time Monday, June 16th I have been arrested.
I just got back from Guantanamo Bay and BOY HAVE THEY SPRUCED THAT PLACE UP!
Well, MORE SUSPENSE!, the law officer has YET to file the case or have a detective look into it. I've called Tempe Police twice today to determine the outcome, waiting for an officer to ****** me from work (as yes, they wanted to know where), and left a message with the case officer to call back (6:00P.M.) to inform me of an outcome. Quote from the filer,"Sir, typically it takes a week." Man, the suspense, round #2 is the important one.
So......round #2 is in the air, round #3 starts tomorrow, Tuesday, June 17th @ 6:30 in a PRIVATE HOA President meeting with the entire HOA board, in which Head Schmuck maybe attending. In which the many following arguments will follow.
Intentions of securing my modified Audi from theft and the elements under the rights of the law.
ONE MENTION IN THE PREVIOUS 2 HOUR INCIDENT WHICH WILL WEIGHT HEAVILY IN MY FAVOR: I even told them, " You guys are more then welcome to keep the boots on, you don't have to take them, you can take your boots and keep them on till the meeting." Bou-ya-ca
I think that would sit nicely with law enforcement.
I also, NEVER mentioned I wasn't going to pay, ever! When they said "It'll be $140 dollars to remove them.", I said "You can take your boots, or leave them on..... " NOT, "No, I'm not going to pay, you can take your boots......
I also did NOT sign the APS receipt where it was marked -Customer Refused To Pay. Oh, no, I'm not refusing to pay, not going to say I'm going to pay you or not pay you. Bou-ya-ca
So, the entry into the thread states:
As I told myself I'd never live in a HOA community here I am
And I see alot of post of HOA this, HOA that, the owner new about HOAs, he has a choice to live there: Well, not exactly, this gets a little deeper then that and this gets a little juicy concerning how I got here, so.....
I moved to Phoenix DURING the housing explosion, and not familiar with the city and knew nothing wanted to get my bearings before I bought a house. So that meant renting, this was a HUGE HUGE PROBLEM! It took 3 months looking every single week driving here to find one complex that had NOT been sold or turned into condos or town homes. Legislation was in the works because there was no where to live! They where trying to ban Condo conversions.I mean, if you wanted to buy no problem, over 75% of the offices where turned into sales offices, or the entire complex was being renovated. When we finally found one after 3 months (almost couldn't even move here) there was a second problem. You could only have 1 car per resident at the last few complexes, I was just about screwed. So one last try and another week, I ended up finding a place before throwing in the towel, they did however charge me for every parking space per month per car, but, I got to live here, then.........
Dear Mr Blake Edwards
We are happy to inform you the D&G Enterprises has purshed the property. As you are currently a resident you have your first choice of purchasing your current unit or any other unit on the property, if not, get the hell out because we no longer rent AND THAT WILL BE $350,000 FOR A CONVERSION WITH A $350 MONTHLY HOA FEE.......DUDE! I had no where to live! And all the houses taken off the market for flips, ugh! The Phoenix market was HOT! GLOWING! Houses where going for the gold! You would see a posting and it would be sold asap, the prices where un-touchable. Your talking about where people where camping in there cars for days for a housing development to go up for sale because they needed a home. I mean, there was no where to live. If I was married possibly I could of afforded one of those mortgages but dam, just short of moving into a incredibly poor neighbor hood (still expensive) my Realtor told me about the Villaigo, he personally knew the Sale Manager, had even done work on her homes.
Gee, wizz, 750 HOMES and 743 WHERE SOLD WHEN I SHOWED UP THAT DAY AND THEY WEREN'T EVEN BUILT YET! I had to jump!
Not a house, still expensive, a $1,500 Mortgage, but alot cheaper then the red hot houses on the Phoenix market. Sales manager "Blake, if you can do a 14 day escrow I have an amazing deal for you." Well, that's just say she was their best and my deal got her fired . Nothing illegal, it's that the market was so hot she could of gotten alot more. So, that's why I live in an HOA .
14 DAY ESCROW SUCKS!
And yes, they wanted $350,000 for the 1960 apartment turned condo.
Stay tuned kiddies, round #3 happens tomorrow and will be updated Tuesday, 17th around 8:00P.M. Arizona Time, it's going to get juicy tomorrow .
*Edit: I did call the HOA President today personally, actually seems pretty cool and where laughing a bit, so we'll see what happens.
*EDIT: HOLLY SHINKEY FELLAS! GOD DAM! THANX FOR PULLING FOR ME, JUST READ THE LAST 2 PAGES YOU GUYS POSTED WHILE I WAS TYPING. A COUPLE MINUTES LATE! BUT MY CORNHOLES JUST FINE THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THANX FOR ALL THE SUPPORT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So I just came from the HOA meeting, and Head Schmuck was waiting outside with what may have been a lawyer. He was loading a CD into a lap top, which probably contained all pictures of the night and possibly even the pic sent to APS by other said Vortexer.
So I sat down and told my story in private, went pretty well, they appeared to be shocked once told them this little guy is trying to prosecute, also detailing his unprofessionalism. Something interesting they said caught my attention:
"Well, where thinking about splitting the Parking Fine with you, HOA would pay half and you would pay the other half."
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!! Uh..........wait, this has to be paid no matter what? (Not that I wasn't going to pay) But under what obligations is it determined that this has to be paid and the HOA is responsible? Why, how, who the hell says this has to be paid? Uhn?
I told them if they absoluty came to the conclusion I had to pay I would pay it, and everything had been done to secure my vehicle (in which even the HOA board members knew the car) and prevent it from being towed, it's saftey and securing it from the elements till said HOA meeting.
They asked if they was anything else they should know about, and coughed it up as they would probably see, is about a un-known poster sending a picture to APS. They all put their pens down and hands on their foreheads.
I was cut short and only got 5 minutes of speak time
Every APS issue was meet with:
- Well, you have to take that up with APS, errr........
- I think the ethics of permitting disabling a vehicle.....what if some one has to go to work in the morning, they would be fired!
-Well, you have to take that up with APS...
-Wait, you guys are the one that hired them....
-We are out of time
Which I do not know if they where hired, whether they are on contract, I don't know whether they own the parking spaces, I was out of time...
Ugh.....we will make out decision and you should receive notification in the mail in a week. Ughh....
HELLO KIDDIES, MAJOR UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So one of the HOA board members just called me:
Speaking NOT as an HOA board member:
DUDE! THEY ARE GOING TO PROSECUTE AND SPECIFICALLY WANT TO USE YOU AS THE EXAMPLE!
HOLLY SHNIKEYS! I can't believe this, in what God's Green Earth's bone in their body do they think they are in the right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He mentioned that the apparent rage and steamy-ness of Head Schmuck and heated-ness of the second. The scamming man was the not a lawyer but the owner. They DID have the said picture on file below from the other Vortexer, and presented it to the board
Dear Head Schmuck: There is nothing wrong with the picture nor illegal, it's obvious he's having a little fun with this.
Quote- We are going to review the contract <-------- and if it's in there they (APS) can revoke a pass we are taking it out.
Head Schmuck: He stole our boots!
HOA: He did not steal your boots in any way, he moved his car, and he called you and told you about it.
SOME THING VERY IMPORTANT I FORGOT TO ADD:
APS HAS JUST OFFICIALLY GONE BOOT CRAZY IN THE PAST 24 HOURS EITHER IN FRUSTRATION OR RETALIATION! I left work this morning and all these cars had these boots on them, all over the place, I got home and my roomy walked in, "Dude, why do all the cars have boots on them?"
From this phone call I received from the HOA member, "Yeah, they are trying to find ANYTHING to boot everyone, tags, etc."
Man, these cars that have displayed tags and they have boots on them, one Tahoe got booted for being on the white line, another guy hd to pay $90 to have the boot removed because his tags are expired!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND A MAJOR PROBLEM! I can't do anything regarding a petition or have them ousted unless I get the owners involved, and only there signatures count! You can't even vote on issues if you are not the owner. All these units are rental properties for ASU students, no one here owns the units but the rich parents on the East Coast! URG!!!
So I'm not going to wait a week for the letter, and am going to call the HOA president tomorrow, and the officer has not called back, either way it's going to be a juicy update!
You'll have to excuse the late update, I had 5 pages of material to catch up on .
I've tried to format the written details, information and updates directly above every picture in this post, scroll down and the every picture will be associated will text:
ONE I FORGOT TO POST: LOOK AT WHAT THE BOOT DID TO MY TIRE!
Here's what the property looks like, so there are really NO roads to be blocked, they are all spaces.
You'll have to excuse me, but I do have a very juicy story that relates to the picture below, I wish I posted this first off however in the thick of it slipped me mind. So as you'll see below you park in your garage, then walk to the second floor (living room, kitchen, 3rd floor bedrooms), and really, there is no parking directly in-front or in back of you unit. If your garage is full, etc, you park else where and hike in, it's not that big of a deal unless you have groceries, moving or need to unload items. As I told you days ago about being turned on to these units being a friend, I'll call Chad(that also acted as my Realtor) was also somewhat in the construction business as his father was a contractor. Being a contractor they did alot of home improvements to Chad's unit, and that day where replacing all the interior trim. So as I said before they had to park directly in front of Chad's unit directly infront of the garage, up against it length wise, as not to pertrude into the street, to unload trim out of the truck to the 2nd floor and come down to find Boot Schmuck JUST finishing the boot. They where simply unloading the trim. OH! Let me tell ya, Chad's Father went F-ing nuts! Pulled a hammer rite out of the truck and threatened to kill him immediately! Chad's father charged him, the guy fled and ended up calling the cops, Chad's dad went to town on the boot! Didn't get it off but was busting out other tools when the cops showed up (yeah, Tempe Police actually show up very quick when ever there is a problem).
End of story, cop turned to Boot Schmuck,"You better have the that boot removed and be on your way." I'll just say that Chad's Father dapples in a little more then just the construction business. Nothing else ever became of that.
CAN YOU IMAGINE BEING BOOTED FOR THIS! THAT WILL BE $140 SHASTA POOLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's a double wammy! I've been trying to scale through the thread, and I don't know if I mentioned this, there are a very small, maybe 50 to 1, GUEST spots. Where NOTHING IS NEEDED AND BOTH THESE PEOPLE WHERE BOOTED!
Here's a name to the face: Gerry Richardson, GM
One situation: I have received notification of a sent E-mail to APS by OTHER: PLEASE DON'T DO THIS YET!
I called APS a bunch of ***** via their public emails and he replied
with this, I was shocked he gave out your name to some random dude on
(I'm not about to respond to him in any way, I just wanted to call
them ***** and morally bankrupt)
If this goes further, count me in for the paypal fund...
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Gerry Richardson <email@example.com>
Date: Jun 18, 2008 1:31 PM
Subject: Audi in AZ
I would like to know what your source of information is. Obviously
there are errors in Mr. Edwards' aka Nate Twedten's account of the
situation. In reality, the parking situation at this community is far
better due to their Board of Directors instituting stricter parking
rules. Our enforcement activity has steadily declined, counter to Mr.
I live in NJ. I read about that Audi in Phoenix, AZ that you guys
booted then the guy pulled the car into his garage with the boots
still attached. I also read you guys started booting everything in
sight at that development for even the most minor and frivolous
violations. I don't know the Audi owner, and don't have any interest
in anything in Arizona, but this story really caught my eye.
How can you folks even live with yourselves knowing you're just
blackmailing people into paying you for the most ridiculous
You suck. You're like a bunch of ***** just ruining peoples days. I
hope you lose the court case, lose the contract, the local, nay,
national news hears about it and your business goes bankrupt. You
deserve nothing less. Nothing you have done or will probably continue
to do is ethical. You folks are morally bankrupt.
So: IF YOU GUYS COULD RESTRAIN A LITTLE, THANX!
You'll have to excuse some the grammer, you may need to fill in the blanks, I'm going through this trying to be as efficent as possiable.
I have not called in to the HOA President yet as it's almost 2 hours past my 12:00 Noon Update. Also, my OTHER car has expired tags (REMEMBER I NEEDED A RADIATOR AT THE BEGINNING?, COULDN'T TAKE IT IN PIECES), so I'm off to the DMV, then calling the HOA President and contacting the media.
Modified by The A1 and A2 German at 2:52 PM 6-18-2008
For one, I have tags! Yeah! Wow, I can't believe now I can't officially not get booted for not having them. I wounder what else they'll will try to find.
SO I CALLED THE HOA PRESIDENT, SOMETHING KINDA INTERESTING, I ALSO HAVE THE HOA APS CONTRACT!:
(5 Minutes ago)
-So Blake, you've arranged this meeting so we could wave the fines implemented by APS, well, they haven't charged you a fee/fine, so there is nothing for us to wave.
Umm.....I wounder if they are going to try: outstanding fines for late penalties. However that's not going to fly, they had their opportunity, I even mentioned at the HOA Board meeting if it absolutely came down to me having to pay I have the $140 right now. That's very interesting they HAVE NOT charged a fine/fee, well, yet.
Also, in the phone call I started that the Schmuck stated and I quote," If any of his vehicles are parked ANYWHERE on the property at any time with or with out a pass they will be booted and towed immediately."
-They can't do that, if that's in the contract it's getting yanked, you parking passed HAVE BEEN REINSTATED! WOOT! WOOT! WOOT!
Well, that's gravy baby!
HOWEVER! APS argued let that is not the case. WTF! So I'm a grey area, and if I get towed then I'm dealing with a tow company as well .
Her response: Well, I think you need to contact the owner and see where you guys stand, not Gerry.
So I think they will attempt to ALWAYS have a UNPAID FEE on record and use it every instance!
Hmmm.............don't know about that one just yet, that in it's self with be a juicy topic here.
SO I HAVE A COPY OF THE CONTRACT!
It will not allow me to copy and paste, I've tried to bring it over. I can however forward a copy of the contract in which someone else could post. If someone able of doing this could send E-mail addy IM I could send the contract.
Originally Posted by The A1 and A2 German
UPDATE KIDDIES WITH CONTRACT EDIT* ERRR....THAT'S NOT GOING TO WORK, TRYING TO RESIZE AS YOU READ THIS!