10 Ways to Spot Automotive Cost-Cutting
05-10-08, 10:50 AM
#46
i have to disagree with eliminating dipstick on some european cars as cost cutting. common sense tells me its more expensive to have oil level sensor integrated into the dash display. this isnt as reliable as reading a dip stick, but it certainly isn't cost cutting.
great write up.
great write up.
05-10-08, 12:05 PM
#47
Lexus Test Driver
05-10-08, 12:07 PM
#48
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
i have to disagree with eliminating dipstick on some european cars as cost cutting. common sense tells me its more expensive to have oil level sensor integrated into the dash display. this isnt as reliable as reading a dip stick, but it certainly isn't cost cutting.
great write up.
great write up.
Having a dipstick does increase the cost of designing and assembling the engine block, though not by a huge amount. And today's computer sensors, largely though the the economies of production, have became cheap to produce (many of them are made in low-cost Asian countries).
The main problem with the sensors-vs.-dipstick comparison, though, and the main reason I brought it up, was that a dipstick, if pushed in all the way, cannot fail...it is an exceedingly simple device. Sensors can and DO fail......BMW has had to replace a number of engines under warranty because of them (I don't have the exact number).
05-10-08, 11:29 PM
#49
Saw somebody else already replied to this, but on my old 96 740il, it locked, but only if the doors were locked, if you unlocked the car, the gas door was automatically unlocked too. If you looked on the 7, I know for sure there was a little actuator for the lock on it.
05-11-08, 08:31 AM
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
I'll respect your opinion, but disagree for a number of reasons....the most important being that some people have a lot of trouble with rods, especially with heavy hoods.
Up until the late 1970's or so, almost all cars had either springs or struts holding up the hood. Then the bean-counters discovered that they could save a couple bucks on each car by just bolting on a swing-rod instead.
I myself usually don't have any problems with the rods, but many people do, especially older people and those with little physical strength. This is made worse, of course, with heavy steel hoods....and if they drop they can be very hazardous.
Up until the late 1970's or so, almost all cars had either springs or struts holding up the hood. Then the bean-counters discovered that they could save a couple bucks on each car by just bolting on a swing-rod instead.
I myself usually don't have any problems with the rods, but many people do, especially older people and those with little physical strength. This is made worse, of course, with heavy steel hoods....and if they drop they can be very hazardous.
I lifted the new TSX hood and it is NOT LIGHT at all. It just screams CHEEEAPPPPP. Same as the old IS 300 hood. IS 300 owners hated it so much, some guys actually created gas struts for the car and sold them on IS300.net. I've seen them in person, it was a great mod.
05-11-08, 07:07 PM
#51
Lexus Test Driver
I was reminded of another one today--black body trim pieces, especially mirrors and door handles. Volvo and Saab finally switched over some of their cars from black door handles. Honda initially was doing this on the Pilot, but now only does it on the LX version.
05-11-08, 07:36 PM
#52
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6. Painted Silver/Gray Interior Plastic.
This is something that just drives me up the wall. You don't expect lavish or expensive materials in entry-level econocars, though some, like Hyundai, give you relatively nice materials for the money. But, when you get into a $40,000 vehicle and see dash, door, and console plastic trim so thin and cheap, and so poorly painted with thin, flat, silver/gray paint, to the point where it could pass for a Kiddie-Car at Wal-Mart, it's time to speak up. At one time, a luxury car meant classy trim materials inside.........wood, chrome, carbon-fiber, brushed-metal aluminum, etc..... Now, it's getting to the point where you literally cannot tell some luxury cars from much less expensive cars.
This is something that just drives me up the wall. You don't expect lavish or expensive materials in entry-level econocars, though some, like Hyundai, give you relatively nice materials for the money. But, when you get into a $40,000 vehicle and see dash, door, and console plastic trim so thin and cheap, and so poorly painted with thin, flat, silver/gray paint, to the point where it could pass for a Kiddie-Car at Wal-Mart, it's time to speak up. At one time, a luxury car meant classy trim materials inside.........wood, chrome, carbon-fiber, brushed-metal aluminum, etc..... Now, it's getting to the point where you literally cannot tell some luxury cars from much less expensive cars.
....and don't get me started on fake plastic wood...
Chris
05-15-08, 01:11 AM
#53
Lexus Champion
8. No Oil Dipsticks.
You should have seen the look on my face when I recently raised the hoods of a $94,000 Mercedes E63 and a $69,000 BMW M3...and neither of them had a oil dipstick under the hood. Apparantly we are to trust the lifeblood of two of the most expensive and sophisticated engines on the market (the E63's hand-built engine is certified by a special technician) to a couple of nickel-and-dime computer oil sensors. Give me a break.
You should have seen the look on my face when I recently raised the hoods of a $94,000 Mercedes E63 and a $69,000 BMW M3...and neither of them had a oil dipstick under the hood. Apparantly we are to trust the lifeblood of two of the most expensive and sophisticated engines on the market (the E63's hand-built engine is certified by a special technician) to a couple of nickel-and-dime computer oil sensors. Give me a break.
05-15-08, 02:49 AM
#54
Thanks.
Having a dipstick does increase the cost of designing and assembling the engine block, though not by a huge amount. And today's computer sensors, largely though the the economies of production, have became cheap to produce (many of them are made in low-cost Asian countries).
The main problem with the sensors-vs.-dipstick comparison, though, and the main reason I brought it up, was that a dipstick, if pushed in all the way, cannot fail...it is an exceedingly simple device. Sensors can and DO fail......BMW has had to replace a number of engines under warranty because of them (I don't have the exact number).
Having a dipstick does increase the cost of designing and assembling the engine block, though not by a huge amount. And today's computer sensors, largely though the the economies of production, have became cheap to produce (many of them are made in low-cost Asian countries).
The main problem with the sensors-vs.-dipstick comparison, though, and the main reason I brought it up, was that a dipstick, if pushed in all the way, cannot fail...it is an exceedingly simple device. Sensors can and DO fail......BMW has had to replace a number of engines under warranty because of them (I don't have the exact number).
1. How many people actually check their oil between services?
2. How many know what a dipstick is and where to find it?
3. Assuming they can open the hood, correctly locate the dipstick, pull it out and read it - would they know how to interpret it?
Whenever I go to visit my mother she always asks me to check her oil, and worries before any long drive if she has enough oil. At least a warning light would give her the reassurance that she's ok in that department. Yes, sensors and warning lights can fail - but so can the human part of dipstick use. We even had a Ford where the dipstick tube came out with the stick, leaving a hole in the block.
With regard to spacesaver tyres, I think the space and weight they save is minimal. However, in the case of the Lexus IS, where the tyres are staggered front to back, and directional, a spacesaver is the only option since any full size spare would still only have a 1 in 4 chance of being the correct replacement.
05-15-08, 05:48 AM
#55
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
05-15-08, 05:52 AM
#56
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I think the move away from dipsticks to sensors and warning lights has less to do with cost-cutting and more to do with the lack of any general maintenance knowledge by the majority of drivers. It's ok for us motor enthusiasts on this site to say that checking the oil via a dipstick is easy but in the real world :
1. How many people actually check their oil between services?
2. How many know what a dipstick is and where to find it?
3. Assuming they can open the hood, correctly locate the dipstick, pull it out and read it - would they know how to interpret it?
1. How many people actually check their oil between services?
2. How many know what a dipstick is and where to find it?
3. Assuming they can open the hood, correctly locate the dipstick, pull it out and read it - would they know how to interpret it?
The dipsticks themselves, today, usually have color-coded yellow or orange handles for easy identification.
I don't buy the "ignorance" part of not being able interpreting the dipstick. How to properly check oil.....giving it a few minutes after engine shutoff to drain down to the crankcase, wiping off the dipstick, then re-inserting it on a level surface to get an accurate reading........that is all part of driver training, or SHOULD be. Granted, it is harder to see right after an oil change, when the oil is clean and clear, but usually you can still make it out with decent eyes....and decent eyes are a driving prerequisite.
I usually check my oil when it is cold in the moring, after sitting all night, and ALL of the oil is down in the crankcase for an acurate dipstick reading.
Last edited by mmarshall; 05-15-08 at 06:00 AM.
05-15-08, 10:11 AM
#57
Great lists Mmarshall
6. You list the interior, how about the exterior?
EX: I remembered the 1st gen X3 had the ugly front and rear black unpainted bumper like the honda element, xterras, etc.
I couldn't imagine spending >$40k for this. Yeah, they said it was to prevent paint chipping when offroading
Guess what, they're painted now
10. Oh how flimsy the glove box is in the LS460 (already mentioned in the LS section) as compared to the old LS430 and even the other lexus.
What about usage of insulations? Is it a luxury thing or a cost cutting thing???
Toyotas barely use any insulations as compared to lexus. I want to pull off all the panels in my Sienna and add more.
6. You list the interior, how about the exterior?
EX: I remembered the 1st gen X3 had the ugly front and rear black unpainted bumper like the honda element, xterras, etc.
I couldn't imagine spending >$40k for this. Yeah, they said it was to prevent paint chipping when offroading
Guess what, they're painted now
10. Oh how flimsy the glove box is in the LS460 (already mentioned in the LS section) as compared to the old LS430 and even the other lexus.
What about usage of insulations? Is it a luxury thing or a cost cutting thing???
Toyotas barely use any insulations as compared to lexus. I want to pull off all the panels in my Sienna and add more.
05-15-08, 10:26 AM
#59
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
Thanks.
I listed several exterior things in the post.....rigidly-mounted exterior mirrors,
pint-size spare tires or gas bottles instead of a proper spare tire, skimping on exterior door/trunk locks by providing only one for the drivers' door, and omitting a lock for the gas cap/filler door.
6. You list the interior, how about the exterior?
pint-size spare tires or gas bottles instead of a proper spare tire, skimping on exterior door/trunk locks by providing only one for the drivers' door, and omitting a lock for the gas cap/filler door.
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