mmarshall

The IS300 I had was anything BUT gas-efficient. Neither was the GS300 with the same in-line six. That engine, in general, used as much gas as its GS400/430 and SC430 stablemates. But the flip side, of course, was its great smoothness and durability.

SLegacy99

But, I wasn't talking about Europe, diesels, or the TSX.

My point is that you can have a turbo 4 that is believe it or not faster that a V6, more fuel savy and IMO doesn't take away from the luxury aspect of the car. ...In America.

mmarshall

I think we're going to see that change in the next few years.

mikez

Isnt the IS 220d a 4 cylinder diesel? Or does that not count

LexFather

With advancements in turbo tech, it can be faster than a V-6. Not sure about more fuel savvy (RDX gets pretty bad MPG for example but its a SUV) and it will NEVER be more luxurious.

For example take a 1995 Lincoln Town Car, V-8 with 210hp and a 2008 Acura TSX with 206hp. The Town Car simply trumps it in quiet, smoothness and luxury. Luxury= more cylinders. The TSX is faster, is not course, is smooth but in comparison to a car with more cylinders, you easily feel the difference in execution (I've driven both fwiw).

Hey, it was that way before me, I didn't make the rules

LexFather

Yes, we discussed this.

You think we will be more like the European market?

rominl

iTrader: (4)

yes, we are on the same page. i was trying to bring out the idea of why bmw has stopped doing those stupid things like the 318ti. especially when lexus has the toyota brother taking care of the mainstream, lexus doesn't need to touch the "economy" area

well, it's ok, the damage WAS already done

i will correct you in two directions. first, hybrid for lexus is more of a solution for performance, NOT gas mileage. that's why the 400h, 450h, and 600hl doesn't save that much more gas than their "normal" breed brothers

on the other hand, if gas mileage is really that much of a concern to them, they wouldn't have to go through that much trouble to make hybrid. lexus is not stupid enough to go through the trouble to do hybrid rather than putting in 4 cylinders.

kyang91

iTrader: (5)

I say no for the market in the US, however I think they might want to consider offering it at Europe because they might see some market gain over there that way.

UDel

Good point, although the GS and LS hybrids are not very fuel efficient and more for power and lower emissions for eco buyers. I think Lexus should offer a 4 cylinder option and I don't think it is going to hurt the image of the brand. Who here would really put buying a v6/v8 Lexus off their list or lose respect for Lexus if they offered a 4 cylinder option or a smaller 4 cylinder/4 cylinder hybrid vehicle? Modern 4 cylinders are far from the weak buzzy fours in the past. Done right a 4 cylinder can be just a quick, powerful, and smooth as a smaller 6 cylinder while getting better fuel economy. Honda has a great 240hp 4 cylinder and a excellent 200hp 4 cylinder that provides plenty of power and smoothness. For people saying 4 cylinders are not luxury, 6 cylinders are not really considered luxury either by many and are far more prevalent in inexpensive family sedans. Many people laugh at people who got v6 engines in their luxury cars because they feel only a v8 or v12 equals luxury and they cheapend out with choosing the 6 cylinder but who cares what others think.

Mercedes and BMW offered 4 cylinders in America for a long time and only fairly recently stopped selling them and nobody lost respect for those brands while they had four cylinders. They still have more prestige then Lexus or Jaguar who never offered 4 cylinders in America aside from maybe a really old Jaguar model a long time ago offering a 4 cylinder. Mercedes and BMW did not stop selling 4 cylinders in America because it hurt there image either, it was because they were not very good 4 cylinders and were not selling that well because they offered crappy 4 cylinders. If Mercedes and BMW had great reliable 4 cylinders like Honda then they would have sold much more and would still be available in the US. Mercedes and BMW sell 4 cylinders in Europe and they are the most popular engine choice on most of their cars and I don't hear people complaining about a image problem over there. Porsche sold 4 cylinders in certain sports cars up until the mid 90's and they did not lose any respect, they are one of the most highly respected brands sold in the US. Mercedes and BMW also sell 6 cylinder versions of S classes,7 series,6 series, SLs in Europe and other markets which sell very well.

I think a smooth highly fuel efficient 4 cylinder, 4 cylinder hybrid or diesel option for the IS would be welcome and a 4 cylinder hybrid or diesel would also be welcomed in a RX or ES. It is not going to hurt Lexus image other then a few hardcore Lexus enthusiasts who always brag that Lexus does not offer 4 cylinders and that somehow makes them better or more prestigious. With BMW and Mercedes hinting they will start bringing back 4 cylinders and will most likely offer 6 cylinders in their larger sedans and coupes in the future then Lexus would be at a disadvantage not having competing options especially with the way gas prices are going and everyone complaining. With the new fuel mileage standards coming up and high gas prices things are going to be changing in the auto industry and luxury nameplates/cars are not immune to these changes.

I think it is kind of funny seeing some people saying if you buy and own a Lexus or other luxury car you should not be worrying about getting good fuel economy,price of gas, and can afford putting alot of expensive gas in it yet every few days you see all these threads popping up about people complaining about gas prices and what they can do to make their cars more fuel efficient or get better gas mileage. I see these topics on all kinds of luxury car sites I visit so I am pretty sure luxury car buyers do want more fuel efficient cars and don't like spending a bunch of money on gas. If most Lexus owners and luxury car owners can afford and don't mind paying for expensive gas and expensive options then why do so many get the 6 cylinder instead of the v8. Six cylinder versions generally outsell their v8 versions 5 to 1 and often times 7-8 to 1. Getting a fuel efficient 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder option on a lux car makes alot more sense then trying to make a gas guzzling powerful v8 fuel efficient.

I say Lexus should offer a 4 cylinder option in the future on some cars and a hybrid/diesel 4 cylinder options as well, why not. Toyota makes good 4 cylinders and I am sure it would make one suitable for the Lexus brand and much better then the BMW/Merc 4 cylinders that were offered. I think they should also offer a LS version with a 6 cylinder or 6 cylinder hybrid and if they do another SC bring back a 6 cylinder version. Their 6 cylinders have plenty of horsepower for these vehicles and more hp then their v8s a couple years ago.

mmarshall

It's already starting. Look at all the formerly Euro-things we're getting now, here in America.........things that were all but unthinkable not long ago. $4.00 a gallon gas, $4.50 a gallon low-sulfur diesel fuel, new-generation Bluetec diesels, The Smart-for-Two minicar, The Mini Cooper, the Volvo C30, the BMW 1-series, Euro-style speed/red light cameras, the small Mercedes A-Class supposedly on the way, and Alfa Romeo making plans to re-enter the American market.

And there's more to come.

Threxx

Acura's new TSX 4-cyl gets about the same mileage as Lexus' IS250's 2.5L V6 and makes about the same power, so I don't see the point unless they can make a more economical I4 than Acura w/ the same power.

mmarshall

An excellent post, UDel........the best one I've seen on this subject yet.

Och

iTrader: (3)

Great point! And the reason IS250 and TSX get virtually the same mileage and power output is not because of number of cylinders, but because of displacement, which is virtually the same. But with the same displacement, usually, the engine with more cylinders will be smoother. So whats the point of making a large i4 except to save on production costs?

SLegacy99

I stand by my original assertion that a boxer 4 cylinder would be quite sporting in an IS.

SLegacy99

The 2.4L in the TSX is not direct injected. The 2.5L in the IS is direct injected. If the TSX were, it would have the fuel economy advantage Im sure.