Review/Update (test drive): 2008 Pontiac G8 GT
04-22-08, 01:24 PM
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Review/Update (test drive): 2008 Pontiac G8 GT
As promised, I'm updating the static review of this car to include the ON THE ROAD test drive and VERDICT part, which had to be left out of the previous static review because local Pontiac dealers wouldn't let the cars off the lot. I have now had a chance to sample the car behind the wheel, though not as much as I would have liked. I also added some things, of course, to the PLUSSES and MINUSES columns. So...here you are:
By CL request, a review of the 2008 Pontiac G8 GT.
http://www.pontiac.com/g8/
(Optional color-coded gauges shown)
(Yep.....this El Camino replacement is schedueled for late next year)
In a Nutshell: A more mature, adult, sequel to the GTO.
Several of you at CL have requested a Pontiac G8 GT review, so, after the Lexus IS-F, I gave it top priority. Like the IS-F, I got to see one at the Washington, DC Auto Show this January, but it was up on the turntable, so I couldn't really get a close-up look or inspection...they didn't even bother to unlock and open the doors, because it had not been released yet (auto marketers truly make me want to throw up...they are the bane of my existance).
The car is now arriving at local Pontiac dealerships in my area, but a number of dealerships are not allowing G8 GT test-drives without a formal commitment to buy or a signed Bill of Sale, even with a salesperson or deale representative riding along, even for a mature, responsible driver like me. Several different dealerships said the same thing, so maybe this is something coming down from Pontiac or zone managers.....I don't know. I might have been able to talk my way into a test-drive if I had personally known some of these dealer people, but most of the Pontiac people I knew had since moved on to different jobs or were no longer there. So, I just wasn't going to get a test-drive today....I accepted that. I'll try again later when more of them are in stock. But, I'm afraid that, never mind me, this dealer policy will work against possible sales....Dodge dealerships, in some cases, DO allow Charger R/T test-drives (the G8 GT's closest competitor), even without salespeople riding along. I know....I've already reviewed one. And, IMO, no one should ever buy a car, or even sign a Bill of Sale......without a test-drive FIRST, not later.
The Pontiac-Buick-GMC dealership I was at today had two G8 GTs in stock, both of them in the showroom...a white non-sunroof model and a gray one with the sunroof (that, of course, gave me a chance to compare headroom in both of them). I knew that some of you were waiting for a review of this car or are interested in buying one (if so, you may get to test-drive one before I do), so I decided not to waste the trip. I figured, while I had the chance, I'd do a static review of both cars, post the results, and just do an update later when I get a chance to drive one. That way, you guys will, at least, know most of the things about the car in detail, except for its its road performance (I couldn't check the Blaupunkt stereo sound quality, either, of course, without the key). So, I went to work on those two cars in the showroom...checked them inside and out. I did everything but take them apart and re-assemble them with my tool kit. The salespeople were happy to accomodate, at least in that area.
So.....here's what leads up to the G8, and the reason for its existance. Pontiac, after four years of production (originally it was scheduled for three years), decided to drop the somewhat slow-selling GTO for 2008 and replace it with a somewhat larger, but still sport-oriented, 4-door sedan that would appeal to more mature, adult drivers that were more likely to need the rear-seat room, and less likely to go around doing tire-smoking burnouts. As a result, the G8 GT has a still-large 6.0L V8, but slightly down in HP/torque from the GTO's 400 or so. Base, non-GT versions are available with a 3.6L VVT V6 with 256 HP and 248 Ft-lbs. of torque for those who want a lower price or don't need the power of the GT.
Like the previous GTO and its Australian Holden Monaro-derived platorm, the G8 is also derived from a Holden platform; in this case, from the medium-to-large Holden Commodore, a car widely respected and sought-out in Australia. In fact, both of the G8 GTs I looked at today were built in the Elizabeth, Australia, plant. The car has many Commodore features both outside and inside, but, being a Pontiac, has the signature twin-grille and hood scoops (more, of course, on that below). In going only with a 4-door sedan version, the Pontiac marketers followed the same line of thinking as Dodge did with the 4-door Charger sedan (the Magnum wagon version of the Charger having now been dropped). With the full-sized Pontiac Bonneville sedan also having been dropped, this will leave the G8 and the Grand Prix as the largest of their American-market sedans. And....here's something interesting......an El Camino-like, Sport Truck version, with two doors and a pickup bed in the rear, is reportedly coming for 2010.
Like I indicated above, two versions of the G8 are offered (for now)......a base, V6-equipped G8, and the V8-equipped G8 GT. The option list for both versions, untypical of many GM cars, is quite simple (see the web site)...basically, just a few Premium/Sport Packages and a sunroof. Two automatic transmissions (no manuals) are offered.....a 5-speed sportshift automatic on the base G8 and a 6-speed on the G8 GT. Four interiors are offered on the G8.....Onyx (Black) cloth or leather, and two-tone red/black cloth or leather. Both cars I looked at today had the all-Black leather interior.....IMO, not one of the car's more impressive features (more on that below).
Even without a formal test-drive, based on what I saw today, I had strong feelings about this car, both pro and con. This car, IMO, has some superb features, some that are strange, and some that border on absurd.
Details coming up.
(I have now test-driven the car.....see below)
Model Reviewed: 2008 Pontiac G8 GT
Base Price: $29,995 (includes destination/freight)
Major Options:
Premium/Sport Package: $1850 (white model)
Premium/Sport Package/Sunroof $2745 (gray model)
Destination/Freight: N/C
List Prices as reviewed:
$31,845 (White model without sunroof)
$32,745 (gray model with sunroof)
Exterior Colors: White Hot, Panther Gray Metallic.
Interior: Black Leather
Drivetrain: RWD, transversely-mounted, 6.0L SFI V8, 361 HP @ 5300 RPM, 385 Ft-lbs. torque @ 4400 RPM,
(no, this is NOT the same engine used in 2004-2007 GTOs), 6-speed automatic transmission with Sport shift.
PLUSSES:
Superb, Knock-Out exterior styling.
Abundant, readily available torque.
Relatively good ride comfort over bumps with standard tires/suspension.
Fairly good noise isolation.
Good but not excellent brakes.
4 doors allow greater interior flexibility than GTO predecessor.
A good GM alternative to the Hemi Dodge Charger R/T.
Sport Truck version coming for 2010.
Superb-looking, 5-spoke, traditional Mag-style alloy wheels.
Comfortable front and rear seats.
Great legroom, front and rear combined (unusual in many cars of this size)
Good front seat headroom without sunroof.
Good, but not excellent, stereo sound quality.
Electronic oil pressure/voltmeter gauges.
Clever handbrake handle.
Good ground clearance even with Sport Package lower-body trim and 40-series tires.
Excellent primary gauge package.
10-20-30, etc....speedometer numbers easier to read than the more common 20-40-60, etc...
Leather trim package includes partial leather trim on door panels as well.
Generally good exterior hardware and trim.
Gas-strut-supported hood has no prop-rod.
Fairly well-designed and finished cargo trunk has articulating hinges.
Solid-feeling, solid-closing doors.
Articulated trunk hinges.
MINUSES:
Overzealous dealerships (as I write this)
More body roll and slower steering than most sports sedans.
Outside mirrors too small and flimsy.
No manual transmission offered for purists.
Overly flimsy glove box with inside trunk realease.
No spare tire of any sort, even without run-flat tires.
Rear seat does not fold down for cargo (but has a pass-through).
Unpleasant leather on seats and door trim.
Flimsy, unpleasant steering wheel switches.
Marginal front-seat headroom with sunroof.
Poor underhood engine access.
Some flimsy underhood components.
Too much black monotone (IMO) with the standard black interior.
Cheap, poorly done silver interior trim.
Only six exterior paint colors offered.
Cheap, honeycomb black plastic upper and lower grilles.
OK paint job but could be better.
Unusual power-window/mirror switch location on center console.
EXTERIOR:
Although strongly based on the Australian Holden Commodore, there is no mistaking this car as a Pontiac when you first walk up to it. The split twin-trapezoidal grlles, the big red Pontiac arrowhead logos, the twin GTO-style hood scoops, the nice 5-spoke mag-style wheels....all shout Pontiac like a bass drum. And, in this case, IMO at least, there is nothing wrong with that.......this is a DAMNED good-looking car. The exterior styling, to my eyes, is superb. It is not aero/bullet-shaped or like an imitation space ship, yet is not excessively conservative......just beautiful lines, front to back. The pictures in the Pontiac brochure, web site, and on the Internet just don't do justice to its exterior beauty, especially in white, until you have seen it in person. VERY few cars today really impress me with their exterior looks.....but this is one of them.The front end is also somewhat similiar to the BMW 3-series, with very short overhangs forward of the wheel wells (this affects the underhood room), twin-split grille, dual horizontal headlights, and lower one-piece grille. The roofline, of course, is raked, but not excessively so. There is fairly good ground clearance, even with the lower-body air dams and skirts....a weak point with many Sport packages. The classic American Mag-style 19", 5-spoke alloy wheels are as superb as the body, although the extremely low-profile P245/40-series tires promise a stiff ride (more on that, of course, when I get to drive it). In back, the clear plastic taillight covers look smart and not too garish, although they might look even better if they were slightly larger and ran into the trunk lid. But all in all, by my tastes, the exterior styling of this car, by sedan standards, approaches perfection, and there is very little I would do to change it.
The quality of the paint job is OK, and fairly good.....typical GM, which means better than past GM paint jobs, but not quite to Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, or Audi standards for gloss, depth, smoothness, or orange peel. Again, the G8 seems to look especially good in white. It is not the oyster-pearl white that is so nicely done on some luxury cars, but a regular white that really looks good in the G8's body style. For those who diagree, or don't like the white, five other colors are offered....Magnetic Gray Metallic, Ignition Orange Metallic (a pretty Sunset/Burnt orange), Panther Black Metallic, Stealth Blue Metallic....a heavily metallic medium blue, and Liquid red....the traditional Fire-Engine red. I would take the white or the orange hands-down.
The quality of the outside sheet metal seems quite solid....as are the doors, hood, and trunk lid. All of the exterior hardware, likewise, seems solid and well-done except for the somewhat lightweight-feeling twin outside mirrors (which, IMO, are also physically too small), and the rather tacky looking and feeling black honeycome grilles up front. All of the exterior trim, unlike many other GM products, also looks classy and feels solid, with well-done chrome. The four door handles are especially classy, with chrome strips on either side of a wide body-color strip in the middle.
All in all, an extremely well-done exterior.
UNDERHOOD:
Open up the fairly heavy, solid-feeling hood, and nice, twin gas struts hold it up without the need for an awkward prop-rod (I wish this was standard on all vehicles). The hood itself has an insulation pad underneath to help quell engine noise, though this car, of course, was not designed to be luxury-car quiet (more on that when I get to drive it). The big 6.0L V8, as one would expect from the short front fender overhangs, fits in rather snug, and is displaced rearward somewhat for optimum weight distribution....this is becoming more and more common in front engine/rear-drive vehicles. A huge plastic logo-equipped engine cover, again becoming increasingly common, blocks almost everything on top of the engine but the oil dipstick and filler cap. The ABS computer and lines are accessable on the left, but block everything below that. Some of the plastic reservoirs and tubes seem to be made of thin, flimsy plastic.....one has to question their durability, especially the coolant reserve tank that holds hot coolant under pressure. Plastic covers pretty block access to the rest of the underhood components....looks like another take-it-to-the-shop car for minor servicing instead of doing it yourself.
INTERIOR:
Inside, although there are indeed some nice features, things take a general downturn from the superb exterior. The doors, a sstated before, feel
substantial, and shut solidly. The front seats are generally comfortable and supportive, although the leather on them is not particularly nice....it has the same dull, grainy look and feel as the leather used on some German cars.....the BMW Dakota Leather comes to mind. Although the leather, unlike some other cars in this price class, also covers part of the door panels as well, the overall effect, especially in the all-black interiors, was, IMO, not very impressive. There is too much monotone black, like a coal mine, and broken up a little on the dash, center and door handles by cheap-looking painted silver plastic trim. Red/black interiors are available for those, like me, who don't like all-black, but the two/tone bright red/black seats (only on GT models) go the opposite extreme.....they look a little garish. And the two-tone package, like on the GTO, also includes color-matched red dash gauges, which makes it look even more garish.
The three-spoke steering wheel, manually adjustable for tilt but not telescope, has nice leather wraping, and the stitches don't bother your hands much like they on some leather steering wheels, but both the painted-silver spokes and the buttons and controls on the spokes look and feel cheap and flimsy. I especially liked the round speedometer and tachometer. The speedometer, unlike the more common 20/40/60 markings, has them every 10 MPH (10/20/30/40, etc.....) which, IMO, is much easier to read at a glance. I still don't know why BMW, which prides itself as the ultimate Driver's car, hasn't adopted this type of markings yet. The headlight switch, like on most American/European designed vehicles, is a rotary switch on the left side of the dash, rather than on a steering-column stalk like Japanese/Korean vehicles. Most of the dash buttons and ***** are well-designed and of suitably durable plastic, but the center-stack buttons for stereo/climate control, inlike most other new GM cars, have painted silver plastic rings instead of the more common chrome rings. The four dash vents are simple to operate, well-designed, and have firm *****. A German-designed Blaupunkt stereo sits in the center-stack.....I was unable to sample its sound quality without the key, and will report on it when I test-drive the car. The parking-brake handle is cleverly intergrated into the center-console trim.....I have seen this on a few other cars, but it is unusual. The glove box is awful....some of the flimsiest, cheapest plastic I've ever seen for one......and you have to open it and pop a button inside to relase the trunk lid.
Headroom, up front, was fine for tall people in the non-sunroof model, if the seat cushion was adjusted low, and, not suprisingly, a little less for the sunroof model, where some seatback-rake was needed to compensate. However, more surprisingly, in back, sunroof or not, it didn't seem to make much difference (good either way).......probably due to the design of the roofline and the fact that the rear seat cushions tilted way down and back and the seatbacks were somewhat raked at an angle, which kept your head low enough to clear even the raked rear roofline. Legroom was excellent front and back....and, more importantly, there was good, almost limo-like leg room in back, even with the front seats adjusted for tall people....most unusual in many of today's sedans. I could get even my big size 15 shoes in and out of the rear seat with a minimum of fuss, although the opening between the B-pillar and the rear seat cushion, while wide, isn't quite as generous as the rear-seat foot room itself. Finally, a leather-covered arm rest is built into the center of the rear seat...it is part of the assembly that includes a pass-through hole in the rear seat for long items.
CARGO AREA/TRUNK:
Open the solid-feeling trunk lid, and the articulating hinge assemblies allow the lid to open up and forward past 90 degrees....a boon to loading large items, and for keeping the edge of the lid away from your head. The slanted rear roofline, as in most of today's sedans, cuts into part of the opening itself, but there is still room, by sedan standards, to load all but the largest and bulkiest items. The trunk compartment itself is fairly well-finished in a thin grade of gray carpet, but, without run-flat tires, the lack of ANY kind of spare tire/wheel assembly is inexcusable. There is nothing but a big circular hole under the trunk floor (presumably where the spare tire goes on the Australian versions)...and you can't even use it as part of the usable trunk space either. Pontiac's bean-counters decided to give you a pressurized Fix-a-Flat bottle instead....only, if the tire is damaged enough, or the leak is bad enough, it WON'T fix the flat.....you're stuck until the tow truck comes. Come on, Bob Lutz (GM President)...you and your designers can do better then this.....the superb styling you gave this car proves that.
The rear seats don't fold down for added cargo space, but a handy, drop-down, pass-through hole allows long, narrow items like skis to be carried. All in all, despite the absurd lack of a spare tire, one of the better trunks among contemporary sedans.
ON THE ROAD:
The G8 GT I finally got to test-drive was a white one without the Sport Package. It included a slightly different (but still superb-looking) set of 18" Mag-style alloy wheels with 245/45-18 summer-only performance tires (the Sport Package comes with 245/40-19's). The Pontiac shop was willing to allow a test-drive long enough for at least a minimal on-the-road review; still not as long as I would have liked, but enough. The first 888 of the 2008 G8 GT production come with a special dash plaque.....they are not test-driven at all until the final sale. The one I took out today was not part of that elite group....but still they wanted the mileage on them kept down. I was able, though, to get a good idea of how well the car does on the road....enough to accurately write it up.
Start up the G8 with a conventional, VW-style, spring-loaded, pop-out metal key/fob. The ignition switch is old-style.....recessed into the right side of the steering column, and requires some bending to see and groping to reach. The big 6-liter V8 fires right up and settles into a smooth, quiet idle. At once, the upper-center portion of the dash lights up with red, bar-graph, oil-pressure and battery/voltmeter gauges...a nice touch that was not visible in the static review. The Blaupunkt stereo, also inoperative during the static review without the key, comes to life with a nice sound quality, but rather difficult-to-decipher buttons/functions. Belt up, adjust the seat and mirrors (the seat functions are all power except for the manual, seaback-rake **** down on the left), and you're ready to go.
Despite the car's rather large size/weight by modern standards, this engine MOVES when you tell it to, just like the similiar but slightly different V8s in the Corvette C6 and GTO. Though the maximum 385 ft-lbs. of torque comes at 4400 RPM, response at low RPM is almost immediate, and you get a healthy shove in the back from as low as 2000 RPM, even with the power-draining automatic transmission and A/C on. This, in contrast to the substantially peakier but ultimately more powerful Lexus IS-F, where the real power doesn't start cutting in till 3500-4000 RPM. This car's spunk isn't quite what the C6 and GTO's are, due to the somewhat heavier weight and slightly less torque, but rest assured, you've got some REAL power here....especially if you need to pass somebody quickly and safely on a two-lane road with oncoming traffic.
The G8 GT definitely has a sport-sedan engine, the transmission and chassis, at least on the non-Sport model I drove, slightly less so. Still, that is not necessarily a bad thing. The 6-speed, Sport-shift automatic was very smooth-shifting, especially in the full-automatic mode under part-throttle, where you are not looking for max performance....you can feel the engine torque cut back and a slight amount of slippage smoothing out the shift, especially the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts. The shifter itself was reasonably solid-feeling and moved crisply in and out of its slots. I did not notice any shift-paddles on the steering column, as is common with many sport sedans. Hammer the throttle reasonably hard, though, and the shifts firm up slight for more efficiency and performance, but still stay somewhat on the smooth side.
Likewise, I found the chassis and tires ride/handling calibration much to my tastes, although some people would find it on the soft side by sports-sedan standards. The non-Sport Package model I test-drove was oriented, although slightly, towards the comfort end of the scale rather than excessive firmness...especially compared to the much more harshly-sprung Lexus IS-F I drove a couple of weeks ago. The IS-F was, IMO, clearly unsuited for rough roads. The standard G8 GT was fairly soft and comfortable on sharp bumps....I found this surprising, considering the wide, low-profile, 45-series performance tires and the high recommended 36 front/39 rear tire pressures (Yes, I checked them, as always, before driving it). I had expected a much stiffer ride than the car actually had, and, though it was no Lincoln Town Car, I was pleasantly surprised. The trade-off, of course, was a little body roll and delayed steering response, but the car handled well enough for my tastes, and for what most people would need in normal, sane driving. Still, it was clear that this was not a car that would weave through the slaloms or twisties as well as, say, a BMW M3
or M5. Nor could the power steering's road feel, while generally good, quite equal that of a BMW either (but, of course, what else CAN?) I did not get a chance to drive a Sport Package model (it was difficult enough just getting THIS car), so I can't comment on it.....but the suspension and lower-profile, 40-series high-performance tires on that package would probably be a little firmer and more sport-sedan-like, with less body roll and quicker response.
Road-noise and wind-noise levels were both low, despite the fairly aggressive tires and tread pattern, a sign of the car's refinement, insulation, and sealing. Brakes were generally effective, did not have any problems with pedal location/spacing with my big size 15 shoes, and showed evenness of response/modulation, but were a little spongy in the first inch or so of pedal travel.
THE VERDICT?
This car, while a sequel to the GTO, is clearly not just a 4-door Goat. It is more sophisticated, more refined, roomier inside, more space-efficient, and, in a nutshell, simply more adult. Yet, it maintains some of the GTO's aggressive features, such as the classic Pontiac double-hood scoops, split-grille, and superb, classic Mag-wheels. In its standard-suspension/tire version, it makes a superb touring car.....the chassis is, to my tastes, a great combination of ride/handling, but some will find it too soft.....in that case, try out the Sport Package (if Mr. Scrooge at the Pontiac dealership will let you) and see if that is more to your tastes. There is way more than enough power for anything you will ever need in normal driving, short of drag-racing a Corvette Z06 or Dodge Viper, and the power comes on quickly, without lag. This, IMO, would be a great car for either long distance Interstate driving or mild twisties.....but not quite the hairpin-turn Brenner Pass through the Alps. In many ways, it reminds me of a downsized version of the big, late 1960's Pontiac Bonnevilles and Catalinas (yes, I still remember them well), with their abundant power, smooth/quiet transmissions, roomy interiors, quiet ride, and decent (for big GM cars) handling.
But, as with any car, there are some things, IMO, on the G8 GT that still need work. The glovebox is flimsier than a politician's speech, sometimes doesn't even latch securely, and you have to fool with it every time you want to open the trunk from inside. The gas-bottle Fix-a-Flat is an inexcusably poor substitute not only for a real spare tire/wheel, but even a temporary or donut spare. There is too much monotone black leather throughout the cabin unless you opt for the garish red/black two-tone. The small outside mirrors need to cover a little more real estate. The cheap-looking painted-silver interior trim needs to have either a carbon-fiber or wood-trim option (or at least better-looking silver). And Goat (GTO) enthusiasts who have families now and need the usable rear seat this car offers would probably appreciate a manual-transmission option.
But, quibbles aside, it is a nice car, and compares very favorably with its closest domestic competitor, the Dodge Charger R/T. I am impressed with its exterior styling, interior roominess (especially back seat), abundant power, and civilized road manners over bumps. but its reliability, of course (an imporant consideration for many buyers) is questionable.....not only is the car brand-new without any previous data (Australian Commodore versions may not apply to American-spec versions) but overall reliability of many recent Pontiacs has been rather poor.
By CL request, a review of the 2008 Pontiac G8 GT.
http://www.pontiac.com/g8/
(Optional color-coded gauges shown)
(Yep.....this El Camino replacement is schedueled for late next year)
In a Nutshell: A more mature, adult, sequel to the GTO.
Several of you at CL have requested a Pontiac G8 GT review, so, after the Lexus IS-F, I gave it top priority. Like the IS-F, I got to see one at the Washington, DC Auto Show this January, but it was up on the turntable, so I couldn't really get a close-up look or inspection...they didn't even bother to unlock and open the doors, because it had not been released yet (auto marketers truly make me want to throw up...they are the bane of my existance).
The car is now arriving at local Pontiac dealerships in my area, but a number of dealerships are not allowing G8 GT test-drives without a formal commitment to buy or a signed Bill of Sale, even with a salesperson or deale representative riding along, even for a mature, responsible driver like me. Several different dealerships said the same thing, so maybe this is something coming down from Pontiac or zone managers.....I don't know. I might have been able to talk my way into a test-drive if I had personally known some of these dealer people, but most of the Pontiac people I knew had since moved on to different jobs or were no longer there. So, I just wasn't going to get a test-drive today....I accepted that. I'll try again later when more of them are in stock. But, I'm afraid that, never mind me, this dealer policy will work against possible sales....Dodge dealerships, in some cases, DO allow Charger R/T test-drives (the G8 GT's closest competitor), even without salespeople riding along. I know....I've already reviewed one. And, IMO, no one should ever buy a car, or even sign a Bill of Sale......without a test-drive FIRST, not later.
The Pontiac-Buick-GMC dealership I was at today had two G8 GTs in stock, both of them in the showroom...a white non-sunroof model and a gray one with the sunroof (that, of course, gave me a chance to compare headroom in both of them). I knew that some of you were waiting for a review of this car or are interested in buying one (if so, you may get to test-drive one before I do), so I decided not to waste the trip. I figured, while I had the chance, I'd do a static review of both cars, post the results, and just do an update later when I get a chance to drive one. That way, you guys will, at least, know most of the things about the car in detail, except for its its road performance (I couldn't check the Blaupunkt stereo sound quality, either, of course, without the key). So, I went to work on those two cars in the showroom...checked them inside and out. I did everything but take them apart and re-assemble them with my tool kit. The salespeople were happy to accomodate, at least in that area.
So.....here's what leads up to the G8, and the reason for its existance. Pontiac, after four years of production (originally it was scheduled for three years), decided to drop the somewhat slow-selling GTO for 2008 and replace it with a somewhat larger, but still sport-oriented, 4-door sedan that would appeal to more mature, adult drivers that were more likely to need the rear-seat room, and less likely to go around doing tire-smoking burnouts. As a result, the G8 GT has a still-large 6.0L V8, but slightly down in HP/torque from the GTO's 400 or so. Base, non-GT versions are available with a 3.6L VVT V6 with 256 HP and 248 Ft-lbs. of torque for those who want a lower price or don't need the power of the GT.
Like the previous GTO and its Australian Holden Monaro-derived platorm, the G8 is also derived from a Holden platform; in this case, from the medium-to-large Holden Commodore, a car widely respected and sought-out in Australia. In fact, both of the G8 GTs I looked at today were built in the Elizabeth, Australia, plant. The car has many Commodore features both outside and inside, but, being a Pontiac, has the signature twin-grille and hood scoops (more, of course, on that below). In going only with a 4-door sedan version, the Pontiac marketers followed the same line of thinking as Dodge did with the 4-door Charger sedan (the Magnum wagon version of the Charger having now been dropped). With the full-sized Pontiac Bonneville sedan also having been dropped, this will leave the G8 and the Grand Prix as the largest of their American-market sedans. And....here's something interesting......an El Camino-like, Sport Truck version, with two doors and a pickup bed in the rear, is reportedly coming for 2010.
Like I indicated above, two versions of the G8 are offered (for now)......a base, V6-equipped G8, and the V8-equipped G8 GT. The option list for both versions, untypical of many GM cars, is quite simple (see the web site)...basically, just a few Premium/Sport Packages and a sunroof. Two automatic transmissions (no manuals) are offered.....a 5-speed sportshift automatic on the base G8 and a 6-speed on the G8 GT. Four interiors are offered on the G8.....Onyx (Black) cloth or leather, and two-tone red/black cloth or leather. Both cars I looked at today had the all-Black leather interior.....IMO, not one of the car's more impressive features (more on that below).
Even without a formal test-drive, based on what I saw today, I had strong feelings about this car, both pro and con. This car, IMO, has some superb features, some that are strange, and some that border on absurd.
Details coming up.
(I have now test-driven the car.....see below)
Model Reviewed: 2008 Pontiac G8 GT
Base Price: $29,995 (includes destination/freight)
Major Options:
Premium/Sport Package: $1850 (white model)
Premium/Sport Package/Sunroof $2745 (gray model)
Destination/Freight: N/C
List Prices as reviewed:
$31,845 (White model without sunroof)
$32,745 (gray model with sunroof)
Exterior Colors: White Hot, Panther Gray Metallic.
Interior: Black Leather
Drivetrain: RWD, transversely-mounted, 6.0L SFI V8, 361 HP @ 5300 RPM, 385 Ft-lbs. torque @ 4400 RPM,
(no, this is NOT the same engine used in 2004-2007 GTOs), 6-speed automatic transmission with Sport shift.
PLUSSES:
Superb, Knock-Out exterior styling.
Abundant, readily available torque.
Relatively good ride comfort over bumps with standard tires/suspension.
Fairly good noise isolation.
Good but not excellent brakes.
4 doors allow greater interior flexibility than GTO predecessor.
A good GM alternative to the Hemi Dodge Charger R/T.
Sport Truck version coming for 2010.
Superb-looking, 5-spoke, traditional Mag-style alloy wheels.
Comfortable front and rear seats.
Great legroom, front and rear combined (unusual in many cars of this size)
Good front seat headroom without sunroof.
Good, but not excellent, stereo sound quality.
Electronic oil pressure/voltmeter gauges.
Clever handbrake handle.
Good ground clearance even with Sport Package lower-body trim and 40-series tires.
Excellent primary gauge package.
10-20-30, etc....speedometer numbers easier to read than the more common 20-40-60, etc...
Leather trim package includes partial leather trim on door panels as well.
Generally good exterior hardware and trim.
Gas-strut-supported hood has no prop-rod.
Fairly well-designed and finished cargo trunk has articulating hinges.
Solid-feeling, solid-closing doors.
Articulated trunk hinges.
MINUSES:
Overzealous dealerships (as I write this)
More body roll and slower steering than most sports sedans.
Outside mirrors too small and flimsy.
No manual transmission offered for purists.
Overly flimsy glove box with inside trunk realease.
No spare tire of any sort, even without run-flat tires.
Rear seat does not fold down for cargo (but has a pass-through).
Unpleasant leather on seats and door trim.
Flimsy, unpleasant steering wheel switches.
Marginal front-seat headroom with sunroof.
Poor underhood engine access.
Some flimsy underhood components.
Too much black monotone (IMO) with the standard black interior.
Cheap, poorly done silver interior trim.
Only six exterior paint colors offered.
Cheap, honeycomb black plastic upper and lower grilles.
OK paint job but could be better.
Unusual power-window/mirror switch location on center console.
EXTERIOR:
Although strongly based on the Australian Holden Commodore, there is no mistaking this car as a Pontiac when you first walk up to it. The split twin-trapezoidal grlles, the big red Pontiac arrowhead logos, the twin GTO-style hood scoops, the nice 5-spoke mag-style wheels....all shout Pontiac like a bass drum. And, in this case, IMO at least, there is nothing wrong with that.......this is a DAMNED good-looking car. The exterior styling, to my eyes, is superb. It is not aero/bullet-shaped or like an imitation space ship, yet is not excessively conservative......just beautiful lines, front to back. The pictures in the Pontiac brochure, web site, and on the Internet just don't do justice to its exterior beauty, especially in white, until you have seen it in person. VERY few cars today really impress me with their exterior looks.....but this is one of them.The front end is also somewhat similiar to the BMW 3-series, with very short overhangs forward of the wheel wells (this affects the underhood room), twin-split grille, dual horizontal headlights, and lower one-piece grille. The roofline, of course, is raked, but not excessively so. There is fairly good ground clearance, even with the lower-body air dams and skirts....a weak point with many Sport packages. The classic American Mag-style 19", 5-spoke alloy wheels are as superb as the body, although the extremely low-profile P245/40-series tires promise a stiff ride (more on that, of course, when I get to drive it). In back, the clear plastic taillight covers look smart and not too garish, although they might look even better if they were slightly larger and ran into the trunk lid. But all in all, by my tastes, the exterior styling of this car, by sedan standards, approaches perfection, and there is very little I would do to change it.
The quality of the paint job is OK, and fairly good.....typical GM, which means better than past GM paint jobs, but not quite to Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, or Audi standards for gloss, depth, smoothness, or orange peel. Again, the G8 seems to look especially good in white. It is not the oyster-pearl white that is so nicely done on some luxury cars, but a regular white that really looks good in the G8's body style. For those who diagree, or don't like the white, five other colors are offered....Magnetic Gray Metallic, Ignition Orange Metallic (a pretty Sunset/Burnt orange), Panther Black Metallic, Stealth Blue Metallic....a heavily metallic medium blue, and Liquid red....the traditional Fire-Engine red. I would take the white or the orange hands-down.
The quality of the outside sheet metal seems quite solid....as are the doors, hood, and trunk lid. All of the exterior hardware, likewise, seems solid and well-done except for the somewhat lightweight-feeling twin outside mirrors (which, IMO, are also physically too small), and the rather tacky looking and feeling black honeycome grilles up front. All of the exterior trim, unlike many other GM products, also looks classy and feels solid, with well-done chrome. The four door handles are especially classy, with chrome strips on either side of a wide body-color strip in the middle.
All in all, an extremely well-done exterior.
UNDERHOOD:
Open up the fairly heavy, solid-feeling hood, and nice, twin gas struts hold it up without the need for an awkward prop-rod (I wish this was standard on all vehicles). The hood itself has an insulation pad underneath to help quell engine noise, though this car, of course, was not designed to be luxury-car quiet (more on that when I get to drive it). The big 6.0L V8, as one would expect from the short front fender overhangs, fits in rather snug, and is displaced rearward somewhat for optimum weight distribution....this is becoming more and more common in front engine/rear-drive vehicles. A huge plastic logo-equipped engine cover, again becoming increasingly common, blocks almost everything on top of the engine but the oil dipstick and filler cap. The ABS computer and lines are accessable on the left, but block everything below that. Some of the plastic reservoirs and tubes seem to be made of thin, flimsy plastic.....one has to question their durability, especially the coolant reserve tank that holds hot coolant under pressure. Plastic covers pretty block access to the rest of the underhood components....looks like another take-it-to-the-shop car for minor servicing instead of doing it yourself.
INTERIOR:
Inside, although there are indeed some nice features, things take a general downturn from the superb exterior. The doors, a sstated before, feel
substantial, and shut solidly. The front seats are generally comfortable and supportive, although the leather on them is not particularly nice....it has the same dull, grainy look and feel as the leather used on some German cars.....the BMW Dakota Leather comes to mind. Although the leather, unlike some other cars in this price class, also covers part of the door panels as well, the overall effect, especially in the all-black interiors, was, IMO, not very impressive. There is too much monotone black, like a coal mine, and broken up a little on the dash, center and door handles by cheap-looking painted silver plastic trim. Red/black interiors are available for those, like me, who don't like all-black, but the two/tone bright red/black seats (only on GT models) go the opposite extreme.....they look a little garish. And the two-tone package, like on the GTO, also includes color-matched red dash gauges, which makes it look even more garish.
The three-spoke steering wheel, manually adjustable for tilt but not telescope, has nice leather wraping, and the stitches don't bother your hands much like they on some leather steering wheels, but both the painted-silver spokes and the buttons and controls on the spokes look and feel cheap and flimsy. I especially liked the round speedometer and tachometer. The speedometer, unlike the more common 20/40/60 markings, has them every 10 MPH (10/20/30/40, etc.....) which, IMO, is much easier to read at a glance. I still don't know why BMW, which prides itself as the ultimate Driver's car, hasn't adopted this type of markings yet. The headlight switch, like on most American/European designed vehicles, is a rotary switch on the left side of the dash, rather than on a steering-column stalk like Japanese/Korean vehicles. Most of the dash buttons and ***** are well-designed and of suitably durable plastic, but the center-stack buttons for stereo/climate control, inlike most other new GM cars, have painted silver plastic rings instead of the more common chrome rings. The four dash vents are simple to operate, well-designed, and have firm *****. A German-designed Blaupunkt stereo sits in the center-stack.....I was unable to sample its sound quality without the key, and will report on it when I test-drive the car. The parking-brake handle is cleverly intergrated into the center-console trim.....I have seen this on a few other cars, but it is unusual. The glove box is awful....some of the flimsiest, cheapest plastic I've ever seen for one......and you have to open it and pop a button inside to relase the trunk lid.
Headroom, up front, was fine for tall people in the non-sunroof model, if the seat cushion was adjusted low, and, not suprisingly, a little less for the sunroof model, where some seatback-rake was needed to compensate. However, more surprisingly, in back, sunroof or not, it didn't seem to make much difference (good either way).......probably due to the design of the roofline and the fact that the rear seat cushions tilted way down and back and the seatbacks were somewhat raked at an angle, which kept your head low enough to clear even the raked rear roofline. Legroom was excellent front and back....and, more importantly, there was good, almost limo-like leg room in back, even with the front seats adjusted for tall people....most unusual in many of today's sedans. I could get even my big size 15 shoes in and out of the rear seat with a minimum of fuss, although the opening between the B-pillar and the rear seat cushion, while wide, isn't quite as generous as the rear-seat foot room itself. Finally, a leather-covered arm rest is built into the center of the rear seat...it is part of the assembly that includes a pass-through hole in the rear seat for long items.
CARGO AREA/TRUNK:
Open the solid-feeling trunk lid, and the articulating hinge assemblies allow the lid to open up and forward past 90 degrees....a boon to loading large items, and for keeping the edge of the lid away from your head. The slanted rear roofline, as in most of today's sedans, cuts into part of the opening itself, but there is still room, by sedan standards, to load all but the largest and bulkiest items. The trunk compartment itself is fairly well-finished in a thin grade of gray carpet, but, without run-flat tires, the lack of ANY kind of spare tire/wheel assembly is inexcusable. There is nothing but a big circular hole under the trunk floor (presumably where the spare tire goes on the Australian versions)...and you can't even use it as part of the usable trunk space either. Pontiac's bean-counters decided to give you a pressurized Fix-a-Flat bottle instead....only, if the tire is damaged enough, or the leak is bad enough, it WON'T fix the flat.....you're stuck until the tow truck comes. Come on, Bob Lutz (GM President)...you and your designers can do better then this.....the superb styling you gave this car proves that.
The rear seats don't fold down for added cargo space, but a handy, drop-down, pass-through hole allows long, narrow items like skis to be carried. All in all, despite the absurd lack of a spare tire, one of the better trunks among contemporary sedans.
ON THE ROAD:
The G8 GT I finally got to test-drive was a white one without the Sport Package. It included a slightly different (but still superb-looking) set of 18" Mag-style alloy wheels with 245/45-18 summer-only performance tires (the Sport Package comes with 245/40-19's). The Pontiac shop was willing to allow a test-drive long enough for at least a minimal on-the-road review; still not as long as I would have liked, but enough. The first 888 of the 2008 G8 GT production come with a special dash plaque.....they are not test-driven at all until the final sale. The one I took out today was not part of that elite group....but still they wanted the mileage on them kept down. I was able, though, to get a good idea of how well the car does on the road....enough to accurately write it up.
Start up the G8 with a conventional, VW-style, spring-loaded, pop-out metal key/fob. The ignition switch is old-style.....recessed into the right side of the steering column, and requires some bending to see and groping to reach. The big 6-liter V8 fires right up and settles into a smooth, quiet idle. At once, the upper-center portion of the dash lights up with red, bar-graph, oil-pressure and battery/voltmeter gauges...a nice touch that was not visible in the static review. The Blaupunkt stereo, also inoperative during the static review without the key, comes to life with a nice sound quality, but rather difficult-to-decipher buttons/functions. Belt up, adjust the seat and mirrors (the seat functions are all power except for the manual, seaback-rake **** down on the left), and you're ready to go.
Despite the car's rather large size/weight by modern standards, this engine MOVES when you tell it to, just like the similiar but slightly different V8s in the Corvette C6 and GTO. Though the maximum 385 ft-lbs. of torque comes at 4400 RPM, response at low RPM is almost immediate, and you get a healthy shove in the back from as low as 2000 RPM, even with the power-draining automatic transmission and A/C on. This, in contrast to the substantially peakier but ultimately more powerful Lexus IS-F, where the real power doesn't start cutting in till 3500-4000 RPM. This car's spunk isn't quite what the C6 and GTO's are, due to the somewhat heavier weight and slightly less torque, but rest assured, you've got some REAL power here....especially if you need to pass somebody quickly and safely on a two-lane road with oncoming traffic.
The G8 GT definitely has a sport-sedan engine, the transmission and chassis, at least on the non-Sport model I drove, slightly less so. Still, that is not necessarily a bad thing. The 6-speed, Sport-shift automatic was very smooth-shifting, especially in the full-automatic mode under part-throttle, where you are not looking for max performance....you can feel the engine torque cut back and a slight amount of slippage smoothing out the shift, especially the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts. The shifter itself was reasonably solid-feeling and moved crisply in and out of its slots. I did not notice any shift-paddles on the steering column, as is common with many sport sedans. Hammer the throttle reasonably hard, though, and the shifts firm up slight for more efficiency and performance, but still stay somewhat on the smooth side.
Likewise, I found the chassis and tires ride/handling calibration much to my tastes, although some people would find it on the soft side by sports-sedan standards. The non-Sport Package model I test-drove was oriented, although slightly, towards the comfort end of the scale rather than excessive firmness...especially compared to the much more harshly-sprung Lexus IS-F I drove a couple of weeks ago. The IS-F was, IMO, clearly unsuited for rough roads. The standard G8 GT was fairly soft and comfortable on sharp bumps....I found this surprising, considering the wide, low-profile, 45-series performance tires and the high recommended 36 front/39 rear tire pressures (Yes, I checked them, as always, before driving it). I had expected a much stiffer ride than the car actually had, and, though it was no Lincoln Town Car, I was pleasantly surprised. The trade-off, of course, was a little body roll and delayed steering response, but the car handled well enough for my tastes, and for what most people would need in normal, sane driving. Still, it was clear that this was not a car that would weave through the slaloms or twisties as well as, say, a BMW M3
or M5. Nor could the power steering's road feel, while generally good, quite equal that of a BMW either (but, of course, what else CAN?) I did not get a chance to drive a Sport Package model (it was difficult enough just getting THIS car), so I can't comment on it.....but the suspension and lower-profile, 40-series high-performance tires on that package would probably be a little firmer and more sport-sedan-like, with less body roll and quicker response.
Road-noise and wind-noise levels were both low, despite the fairly aggressive tires and tread pattern, a sign of the car's refinement, insulation, and sealing. Brakes were generally effective, did not have any problems with pedal location/spacing with my big size 15 shoes, and showed evenness of response/modulation, but were a little spongy in the first inch or so of pedal travel.
THE VERDICT?
This car, while a sequel to the GTO, is clearly not just a 4-door Goat. It is more sophisticated, more refined, roomier inside, more space-efficient, and, in a nutshell, simply more adult. Yet, it maintains some of the GTO's aggressive features, such as the classic Pontiac double-hood scoops, split-grille, and superb, classic Mag-wheels. In its standard-suspension/tire version, it makes a superb touring car.....the chassis is, to my tastes, a great combination of ride/handling, but some will find it too soft.....in that case, try out the Sport Package (if Mr. Scrooge at the Pontiac dealership will let you) and see if that is more to your tastes. There is way more than enough power for anything you will ever need in normal driving, short of drag-racing a Corvette Z06 or Dodge Viper, and the power comes on quickly, without lag. This, IMO, would be a great car for either long distance Interstate driving or mild twisties.....but not quite the hairpin-turn Brenner Pass through the Alps. In many ways, it reminds me of a downsized version of the big, late 1960's Pontiac Bonnevilles and Catalinas (yes, I still remember them well), with their abundant power, smooth/quiet transmissions, roomy interiors, quiet ride, and decent (for big GM cars) handling.
But, as with any car, there are some things, IMO, on the G8 GT that still need work. The glovebox is flimsier than a politician's speech, sometimes doesn't even latch securely, and you have to fool with it every time you want to open the trunk from inside. The gas-bottle Fix-a-Flat is an inexcusably poor substitute not only for a real spare tire/wheel, but even a temporary or donut spare. There is too much monotone black leather throughout the cabin unless you opt for the garish red/black two-tone. The small outside mirrors need to cover a little more real estate. The cheap-looking painted-silver interior trim needs to have either a carbon-fiber or wood-trim option (or at least better-looking silver). And Goat (GTO) enthusiasts who have families now and need the usable rear seat this car offers would probably appreciate a manual-transmission option.
But, quibbles aside, it is a nice car, and compares very favorably with its closest domestic competitor, the Dodge Charger R/T. I am impressed with its exterior styling, interior roominess (especially back seat), abundant power, and civilized road manners over bumps. but its reliability, of course (an imporant consideration for many buyers) is questionable.....not only is the car brand-new without any previous data (Australian Commodore versions may not apply to American-spec versions) but overall reliability of many recent Pontiacs has been rather poor.
Last edited by mmarshall; 04-22-08 at 01:39 PM.
04-22-08, 01:53 PM
#2
Lexus Champion
Great... thanks for the update. I'm surprised to hear that the G8 rides that much more refined than the GTO, which I never really cared for in terms of noise and isolation, though it was excusable for the type of car, it still didn't appeal to me.
The G8 GT has the L76 motor, which while still a Gen-4 GM small block, is much more closely related to the 6.0L V8s used in GM's 2007+ trucks and SUVs than what's in the Vette or GTO.
The still to be released G8 GXP has the Corvette's LS3, albeit with less power than the Vette, still a healthy upgrade over the L76, along with substantial modifications to the chassis.
The GT's 6L80E trans sufers from some pretty conservative torque management to smooth out launches, shifts, and extend transmission life... I'm hoping the GXP will 'fix' this, though.
There's a tune available for ~$500 for the GT that eliminates the torque management and as a result not only significantly improves performance but even improves mileage by ~1.5 mpg in the city.
The G8 GT has the L76 motor, which while still a Gen-4 GM small block, is much more closely related to the 6.0L V8s used in GM's 2007+ trucks and SUVs than what's in the Vette or GTO.
The still to be released G8 GXP has the Corvette's LS3, albeit with less power than the Vette, still a healthy upgrade over the L76, along with substantial modifications to the chassis.
The GT's 6L80E trans sufers from some pretty conservative torque management to smooth out launches, shifts, and extend transmission life... I'm hoping the GXP will 'fix' this, though.
There's a tune available for ~$500 for the GT that eliminates the torque management and as a result not only significantly improves performance but even improves mileage by ~1.5 mpg in the city.
04-22-08, 02:05 PM
#3
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
=Threxx;3468048]Great... thanks for the update. I'm surprised to hear that the G8 rides that much more refined than the GTO, which I never really cared for in terms of noise and isolation, though it was excusable for the type of car, it still didn't appeal to me.
The G8 GT has the L76 motor, which while still a Gen-4 GM small block, is much more closely related to the 6.0L V8s used in GM's 2007+ trucks and SUVs than what's in the Vette or GTO.
The still to be released G8 GXP has the Corvette's LS3, albeit with less power than the Vette, still a healthy upgrade over the L76, along with substantial modifications to the chassis.
The GT's 6L80E trans sufers from some pretty conservative torque management to smooth out launches, shifts, and extend transmission life... I'm hoping the GXP will 'fix' this, though.
There's a tune available for ~$500 for the GT that eliminates the torque management and as a result not only significantly improves performance but even improves mileage by ~1.5 mpg in the city.
There's a tune available for ~$500 for the GT that eliminates the torque management and as a result not only significantly improves performance but even improves mileage by ~1.5 mpg in the city.
I remember the harsh-shifting automatics on the old Mazda sedans from the 1980's, and how annoying they were.
04-22-08, 07:17 PM
#6
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Carson, California currently in Makati City, PI
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Excellent review MMarshall !! A V8, 31k, RWD car with a trunk and 4 doors, what more can you ask for 
I honestly don't mind having a car w/out a Nav, hopefully the interior's fit and finish will not fall apart unlike the WS6's.
Can't wait for the GXP version LSx and 6 speed.
I honestly don't mind having a car w/out a Nav, hopefully the interior's fit and finish will not fall apart unlike the WS6's.
Can't wait for the GXP version LSx and 6 speed.
Last edited by rsantiago; 04-22-08 at 07:21 PM.
04-23-08, 05:05 AM
#7
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
You will also find this with the Dodge Charger R/T, but like the G8, the Charger's reliability is questionable, and it also has some poor-quality interior parts.
I honestly don't mind having a car w/out a Nav, hopefully the interior's fit and finish will not fall apart unlike the WS6's.
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04-23-08, 06:08 AM
#8
Lexus Champion
Closest priced vehicle to this one from Acura is the new TSX which is still an apples to oranges comparison since it's about half as powerful and considerably smaller inside. You have to expect you're paying for something with the TSX... obviously it's not the powertrain, so maybe it's the interior quality.
05-03-08, 08:00 PM
#10
Lexus Fanatic
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05-03-08, 08:26 PM
#11
Lexus Champion
for the same or less $$, I'd rather get something like this....and get proven reliability + great performance.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-...m170214546151&
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-...m170214546151&
Last edited by bagwell; 05-03-08 at 08:50 PM.
05-03-08, 09:16 PM
#12
Pole Position
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for the same or less $$, I'd rather get something like this....and get proven reliability + great performance.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-...m170214546151&
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-...m170214546151&
05-04-08, 06:01 AM
#13
Lexus Champion
oh, u want RWD? I'd stretch a little and get this...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-...m230248971515&
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-...m230248971515&
05-04-08, 08:15 AM
#14
oh, u want RWD? I'd stretch a little and get this...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-...m230248971515&
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-...m230248971515&
Also, if you find a $30k 335i with less than 10k miles on it, let me know...
05-04-08, 09:38 AM
#15
Lexus Champion
how about this...?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/04-BM...m300220896680&
I'm just pointing out that for $30K, you can get something really nice.