Is it the end of Scion? Brand loses sales as 2nd-generation models struggle
03-03-08, 08:17 PM
#31
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Compared to what? 2007 when the previous generation xB & xA were no longer being produced? And the current generation didnt go on sale until the summer of '07? I dont think its that hard to find an increase in sales. 
I dont think its been a total flop like what this press is saying (theres still plenty of attractive things about the brand that I do like), I just think they dropped the ball for Scion's second generation of vehicles. IMO I dont think the new xB is an improvement over the previous generation in anyway except for feature content (and the reviews are pretty disappointing as well).
The original was unique and totally different from anything before it. Small, deceivingly roomy inside, incredibly fuel efficient, very low cost. Its was a great package and had a lot of personality. The new one has none of that. Its much larger, gained around 700lbs, costs more, a big drop in fuel efficiency, and looks even worse than the previous model...in my eyes I dont consider that moving forward. And I also dont buy into the "we are now limiting sales" either as the first generation was supposed to be capped as well. The xB wasnt even supposed to be Scions top seller. But that changed when everyone took notice at how great a deal that little toaster was.
It does have some nice features and as stated before pretty interesting (overpriced) accessories, but IMO there was so much potential to make the second gen a lot better than it is now. Kind of like Acura and the new TSX.
I dont think its been a total flop like what this press is saying (theres still plenty of attractive things about the brand that I do like), I just think they dropped the ball for Scion's second generation of vehicles. IMO I dont think the new xB is an improvement over the previous generation in anyway except for feature content (and the reviews are pretty disappointing as well).
The original was unique and totally different from anything before it. Small, deceivingly roomy inside, incredibly fuel efficient, very low cost. Its was a great package and had a lot of personality. The new one has none of that. Its much larger, gained around 700lbs, costs more, a big drop in fuel efficiency, and looks even worse than the previous model...in my eyes I dont consider that moving forward. And I also dont buy into the "we are now limiting sales" either as the first generation was supposed to be capped as well. The xB wasnt even supposed to be Scions top seller. But that changed when everyone took notice at how great a deal that little toaster was.
It does have some nice features and as stated before pretty interesting (overpriced) accessories, but IMO there was so much potential to make the second gen a lot better than it is now. Kind of like Acura and the new TSX.
I guess you can criticize Toyota for catering to American drivers which also resulted in the new xB being less unique.
The whole reason the 1st gen xB was unique was because it was not meant for America.
Besides, as I mentioned earlier, sales volume is not a priority for Scion. Scion's priority is to attract young buyers and to move them into the Toyota brand and so far Scion is accomplishing that.
03-03-08, 08:28 PM
#32
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Yes, the original xB was unique, but it was also slow, noisy, and had a rough ride. It was not designed for American roads or American drivers.
I guess you can criticize Toyota for catering to American drivers which also resulted in the new xB being less unique.
The whole reason the 1st gen xB was unique was because it was not meant for America.
I guess you can criticize Toyota for catering to American drivers which also resulted in the new xB being less unique.
The whole reason the 1st gen xB was unique was because it was not meant for America.
If the original xB was so unsuited to American drivers and driving conditions, then why did it sell so well over here?
Any way you look at it, Toyota made a mistake with the second-generation model. I'm not saying this because I liked the first xB (I didn't), but you can't argue with its success...success that its replacement simply doesn't have.
03-03-08, 08:50 PM
#33
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I can't agree with your line of reasoning.
If the original xB was so unsuited to American drivers and driving conditions, then why did it sell so well over here?
Any way you look at it, Toyota made a mistake with the second-generation model. I'm not saying this because I liked the first xB (I didn't), but you can't argue with its success...success that its replacement simply doesn't have.
If the original xB was so unsuited to American drivers and driving conditions, then why did it sell so well over here?
Any way you look at it, Toyota made a mistake with the second-generation model. I'm not saying this because I liked the first xB (I didn't), but you can't argue with its success...success that its replacement simply doesn't have.
03-03-08, 08:59 PM
#34
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Yes, the original xB was unique, but it was also slow, noisy, and had a rough ride. It was not designed for American roads or American drivers.
I guess you can criticize Toyota for catering to American drivers which also resulted in the new xB being less unique.
The whole reason the 1st gen xB was unique was because it was not meant for America.
Besides, as I mentioned earlier, sales volume is not a priority for Scion. Scion's priority is to attract young buyers and to move them into the Toyota brand and so far Scion is accomplishing that.
I guess you can criticize Toyota for catering to American drivers which also resulted in the new xB being less unique.
The whole reason the 1st gen xB was unique was because it was not meant for America.
Besides, as I mentioned earlier, sales volume is not a priority for Scion. Scion's priority is to attract young buyers and to move them into the Toyota brand and so far Scion is accomplishing that.
I dont think the new xB is less unique because it wasnt designed with American drivers in mind (I think it held its own here just fine, it was excellent), its less unique because to me it turned all of its positives into negatives, totally disregarding what made this car popular in the first place. And its not like this market is staying still. Theres plenty of new competitors in this class than there was even a year ago.
Yes we know sales was not supposed to be a priority for Scion even when they were first introduced here years ago. But that didnt last long at all. They state that they want to stay exclusive (am I supposed to believe that?) but as pointed out, it wouldnt make sense for them to cap sales in a market that is growing very rapidly. Sorry, I just dont buy that.
Last edited by GFerg; 03-03-08 at 09:07 PM.
03-03-08, 08:59 PM
#35
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The current crop is overweight and overcost compared to the original. Sure they stuffed the 2AZ in it to help with the weight issue, but it killed mileage. Not many were worried about it being slow as a dog. They liked the real utility of it, the quirky looks, low price, and great economy. The new model has none of this.
03-03-08, 09:19 PM
#36
Speaks French in Russian
Are they still attracting new young buyers or Scion/Toyota loyalists with the current gen?? Its awesome that they accomplished what they set out to do the first time out.
The first generations where a run away success!!! But if the second generation was to be truly successful more people would be buying it. And if they were capping sales we would see titles that would read "Scion struggling to keep up with demand" or something similar not "Scion struggling to sell new cars".Urgh, I never liked any of these Scion vehicles and here I am debating about it.
Last edited by GFerg; 03-03-08 at 09:24 PM.
03-03-08, 09:30 PM
#37
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Hogwash. It sold well because it went for $12k and it was Toyota reliable. It was big enough to haul a lot of large stuff (not heavy, but large), and it was unique. LOTS of businesses bought them to save money on a delivery vehicle. I have two personal friends who have been selling Scion since '04, and I've owned two tCs (still have one of them), so I've had a lot of interaction with the real Scion demographic - and 47 YO male is not part of their target group.
The current crop is overweight and overcost compared to the original. Sure they stuffed the 2AZ in it to help with the weight issue, but it killed mileage. Not many were worried about it being slow as a dog. They liked the real utility of it, the quirky looks, low price, and great economy. The new model has none of this.
The current crop is overweight and overcost compared to the original. Sure they stuffed the 2AZ in it to help with the weight issue, but it killed mileage. Not many were worried about it being slow as a dog. They liked the real utility of it, the quirky looks, low price, and great economy. The new model has none of this.
I don't disagree with you that it was a great value.
I will agree that they may have made a mistake putting the 2AZ in there, and they may have made a mistake making it too heavy.
03-03-08, 10:03 PM
#38
I agree with those who think Scion should have redone the tC. Something celica-ish in a convertible probably would have been a huge home run. The tC could have bowed out of the lineup to let a convertible take the "flag ship" title of the Scion brand and as such, sell at a higher price.
I personally think the xD shouldn't have been made since it's too similar to the xB. maybe a quirky sedan would have been fun.
I personally think the xD shouldn't have been made since it's too similar to the xB. maybe a quirky sedan would have been fun.
03-03-08, 10:21 PM
#39
If pricing has an effect on sales, it's because of the current economy, not it's value.
The 1st-gen xB sold because of gas efficiency, interior space, ease of maintenance, ease of modifiability, cheap cost for insurance, and uniqueness.
The 2nd-gen xB may not be selling well because (compared to the list above) it is not the most gas efficient, has less space than the 1st-gen, more car to maintain, is still lacking aftermarket options due to its newness, more expensive to insure due to higher engine displacement, and is no longer as unique with other competitors out in the market, such as the Fit, Versa, etc...
03-03-08, 11:25 PM
#40
I have to agree that Scion went the wrong way with the new xB. I worked at a Scion Dealer for a short time and while I was there the new xB was a really tough sale. Biggest complaint was price followed by gas mileage. We had some 1st gen xB owners come in to look at trading up for an 08 xB, but with the car priced just under the tC (read alot more $$) and the fuel economy just average for a sub compact/compact car there just was no reason to "upgrade". Most people dont buy a Scion for the edgy modablilty that they advertise. It usually came down to price, fuel economy, and toyota reliability.
Also the various Scion mods that you can tack on are all waaaaay over priced, the only real incentive to purchase them from the dealer was financing options.
Also the various Scion mods that you can tack on are all waaaaay over priced, the only real incentive to purchase them from the dealer was financing options.
Last edited by Matador; 03-03-08 at 11:30 PM.
03-04-08, 02:23 AM
#41
ehm. IMHO sucks, everything is slow and noisy compared to LS460.
But xB gen 1 vs gen 2, we are talking about much faster and much more refined vehicle with a lot more space and barely worse mpg.
and BTW, to set record set, xB sales in both Jan and Feb were up compared to 2007.
its night and day difference.
But xB gen 1 vs gen 2, we are talking about much faster and much more refined vehicle with a lot more space and barely worse mpg.
and BTW, to set record set, xB sales in both Jan and Feb were up compared to 2007.
its night and day difference.
03-04-08, 05:30 PM
#45
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