I8ABMR

I was on the net and found this. What disturbs me is that the horrible reliability of the american is followed by the very very exspensive german cars. Its funny to me that GM is making such a big deal about their car of the year ( CTS) and supposed increase in quality.Even a broken clock is right twice a day. What they need is consistency not shot in the dark quality. Sorry guys but nothing has changed but the date.

http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.as...tentid=4023544

Best & worst models

These 2007 models earned the highest and lowest predicted-reliability ratings, based on CR's 2006 reliability survey. Models marked with (2006) have been redesigned for 2007. Models with * use data based on one model year only.

Most reliable

Vehicles listed in scoring order, starting with the best score.

SMALL CARS: Honda Fit*, Toyota Yaris*, Honda Civic Hybrid*, Toyota Corolla.

FAMILY CARS: Honda Accord Hybrid, Toyota Prius, Honda Accord (4-cyl.), Ford Fusion*, Mercury Milan*.

UPSCALE/LARGE CARS: Lexus ES350*, Lincoln Zephyr*, Hyundai Azera*, Acura TSX, Acura TL.

LUXURY CARS: Lexus LS (2006), Infiniti M*.

SPORTY CARS/
CONVERTIBLES/COUPES:
Lexus SC, Toyota Camry Solara (4-cyl.), Subaru Impreza WRX, Honda S2000, Mitsubishi Eclipse*, Mini Cooper Hatchback (2006).

WAGONS/MINIVANS: Pontiac Vibe, Scion xB, Toyota Matrix, Toyota Sienna.

SMALL SUVS: Toyota FJ Cruiser*, Honda Element, Honda CR-V (2006), Toyota RAV4*, Mitsubishi Outlander (2006)*, Subaru Forester .

MIDSIZED SUVS: Toyota Highlander Hybrid*, Toyota 4Runner, Toyota Highlander, Honda Pilot, Lexus RX400h (hybrid)*, Acura MDX (2006).

LARGE SUVS: Toyota Land Cruiser, Lexus LX, Toyota Sequoia, Chevrolet Tahoe*, GMC Yukon*.

PICKUP TRUCKS: Subaru Baja, Toyota Tundra, Toyota Tacoma, Nissan Frontier (V6). Least reliable

Vehicles listed in scoring order, starting with the worst score.

SMALL CARS: Chevrolet Cobalt, Nissan Sentra (2006), Volkswagen Jetta (5-cyl.), Chevrolet Aveo.

FAMILY CARS: Volkswagen Passat (4-cyl.)*

UPSCALE/LARGE CARS: Jaguar X-Type, Chrysler 300 (V8), Saab 9-3.

LUXURY CARS: Cadillac STS (V8), Mercedes-Benz S-Class (2006), Mercedes-Benz CLS*, Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedan, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar S-Type.

SPORTS/SPORTY CARS:
Pontiac Solstice*, Mercedes-Benz SL, Mercedes-Benz CLK, Mercedes-Benz SLK (V6), Chevrolet Corvette, Porsche 911, Carrera, Ford Mustang (V6).

WAGONS/MINIVANS: Buick Terraza, Chevrolet Uplander, Saturn Relay, Nissan Quest.

SMALL SUVS: Kia Sportage.

MIDSIZED SUVS: Mercedes-Benz M-Class*, Land Rover LR3 (V8), Cadillac SRX (V8), Mercedes-Benz R-Class*, Volkswagen Touareg, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Hummer H3*, BMW X5 (V8, 2006), Volvo XC90 (6 & V8), Ford Explorer (V8), Mercury Mountaineer (V8).

LARGE SUVS: Nissan Armada, Infiniti QX56, Lincoln Navigator, Hummer H2.

PICKUP TRUCKS: Nissan Titan, Ford F-250 (TurboDiesel), Dodge Dakota (4WD), Cadillac Escalade EXT (2006).

ES350Bob

The info you are commenting on is very old, nearly 2 years old I believe, and is the predicted reliability. What ultimately happened changed drastically from those predictions.

See where MKZ is referred to as zephyr to see just how old the article is.

I8ABMR

they are for 2007 models, and it feb 08. Recent enogh for most. I doubt the entire field of results has been changed. They are still generally the lowest in quality and reliability. Even if you look at the rankings in europe, they are still rated amongst the lowest. 1 year will not change this. Cadillacs hype over the CTS is like an F student running around excited bec he got an A on one exam. Total average is still a BIG FAT F. Of the 45 most unreliable car, 20 of them are american, and 19 were German. Im not taking those odds with my money

ES350Bob

What you posted was published in 2006, not recent material at all.

Here are a few more recent and if you search CTS you will find it gets glowing reports, including from Consumer Reports.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=123049

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/car...liability.html

SC4_FI

i dont think thats his point...he is saying that 1 good car isnt enough to gloat about...and i agree..i have a STS, and i have replaced the motor in it 2 times, once because the head gasket blew (71k miles) and the 2nd time cause the REPLACEMENT motor blew(i didnt pay for that one)

caddilac FTL

ES350Bob

SC4,

That may have been his point.

I realized I have/had been biased in favor of Asian and to a lesser extent German cars.

It is nice to see American made cars mentioned in a better light than in the past and there are quite a few making good reports, not just the CTS.

SC4_FI

good reports, or great reports like foreign cars?

jenadamson

Went through three American cars during school (in the 90s) - one of each: mid-80s Cutless, mid-80s Chrysler "E" or something like that and early 90s Taurus - all either blew out the engine or transmission. Had a Nissan Altima that was great. Finally ended up with used 98 GS300 - no problems until well past 150K miles. Now, sadly enough for the American car industry, I'll never go back - Lexus all the way for me.

mmarshall

Let's look at the reality for a minute. It takes nine months to a year or so for enough data to start to come in for a meaninful reliability report...mostly from owner surveys. So there will not be any data on the 2008's probably until fall.
The data posted above is probably the best we have for the 2007's right now. Some of that, with totally new or extensively redesigned models, reflects data for one year or less, which only makes sense....if a vehicle is all-new or extensively/totally redesigned, then the previous data for it, of course, is pretty much invalid, though to some extent the general reliability record of previous models or the manufacturer in general can be taken into account.
However, CR got embarassed by the sudden sharp decline in the reliability of the 2006/2007 Camry models compared to their predecessors. CR had forecast better-then-average reliability for the recent redesign with ONLY the previous data from past Camrys...and, this time, it didn't work.

And we can look at another reality. In general, many American-designed vehicles, though better than in past years, still trail their Asian-designed competitors in reliability, but there are some notable exceptions. The Fusion/Milan/MKZ triplets from Ford have been outstanding so far in the FWD versions, but the newer AWD versions don't yet have enough data...we'll probably have to wait till fall to see how they are doing. The Buick La Crosse and Lucerne sedans have also done well so far, but not quite to the level of the Ford triplets.

And, unfortunately, Mercedes-Benz continues to produce a number of grossly unreliable products. This has also been verified by a number of non-CR sources as well, and has persisted, despite company acknowledgement of the problem and attempts to improve it.

Many comments here have centered around the new CTS, so let's be objective about that car as well. The Catera, which preceeded the CTS, was poorly built, no question about it (I remember the tinniness and rattles/squeaks from when I first test-drove it). The first-generation CTS had a cheaply-done, unpleasant interior and started off poorly in reliability, but then improved its reliability somethat to an average rating...and ultimately made CR's recommended list. The second-generation CTS is head-and-shoulders above the first one in fit/finish and interior quality.........only time will tell if it is more reliable.

ES350Bob

There are several great reports.

ES350Bob

[QUOTE=mmarshall;3268678
However, CR got embarassed by the sudden sharp decline in the reliability of the 2006/2007 Camry models compared to their predecessors. CR had forecast better-then-average reliability for the recent redesign with ONLY the previous data from past Camrys...and, this time, it didn't work.[/QUOTE]

Embarrassed as well with the ES350 stopping just short of rating it below average which I believe will happen this year as 08 seem to have some of the same issues as 07, same for 08 Camry.

mmarshall

Also happed to some extent with the new Tundra as well.

The main problem with the new ES350 is not so much its mechanical reliability (which generally remains good) as it is the cheapening of its interior materials and the stiffening of its suspension/tires, which was unneeded. It is not a piece-of-junk of a car that is going to break down and leave you stranded, but it is distinctly less pleasant to sit in and drive than the ES330 was.

ES350Bob

Actually the transmissions are leaving people stranded in some cases and transmission issue is the number one reason given for the ratings drop. They are a PR headache Toyota/Lexus just does not need.

mmarshall

OK....I've reviewed the ES350, but, not having owned one, I'll take your word for it....you obviously know the car better than I do.

But I stand by my earlier statements as well that the ES350 interior was cheapened and the suspension/tires stiffened up uncecessarily over the ES330 (even though it is still not sports-car stiff). I feel very stongly about that.

geko29

Actually a lot has changed
The Jetta is now recommended, and is the only car in this class that is highly recommended.

Not much changed here, except it's been joined at the bottom by the Pontiac G6 and the Toyota Camry.

300 with the V8 and 9-3 are both now highly recommended. X-Type is not listed.

STS is in the top half of the pack for reliability and is highly recommended. 7 series and S-Type are recommended. The Merc's still suck ***. Lexus GS is third from the bottom, below both the E-Class and S-Class.

Mustang is now recommended, 911 reliability 2nd in its class and is also recommended.

Terraza doesn't exist, and the Hyundai Entourage is at the bottom now as well. Otherwise this category is unchanged.

Sportage reliability is now above average, and it is recommended.

R-Class and Touareg no longer listed. X5 is now highly recommended. Explorer V6 and Mercury Moutaineer have improved to average.

H2 and QX56 are no longer listed (but obviously it still sucks just like the Armada). Lincoln Navigator is now 2nd in its class for reliability (above-average) and is recommended. Joining the Armada at the bottom are the Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade and Mercedes GL-Class. Ok, I guess this category makes your point.

F-250 is new and not rated. Escalade EXT is no longer listed. The Titan and Dakota are joined at the bottom by the Toyota Tundra.