Mercedes S 400 Hybrid

[encore888]

It's nice to see the S-Class get a hybrid, at the same time I wonder if say an LS 400h were produced, how well it could do. The S400 is more of a mild hybrid, with the full hybrid treatment geared for efficiency+performance in the LS 600h, it is slightly better fuel economy but a boost from 380 to 438 hp; if they went for say 300 hp with a V6...

[1SICKLEX]

Originally Posted by encore888

It's nice to see the S-Class get a hybrid, at the same time I wonder if say an LS 400h were produced, how well it could do. The S400 is more of a mild hybrid, with the full hybrid treatment geared for efficiency+performance in the LS 600h, it is slightly better fuel economy but a boost from 380 to 438 hp; if they went for say 300 hp with a V6...

I truly want to see Lexus offer different hybrids over the same model.
LS 400h
LS 450h
LS 600h

etc instead of just a LS 600h L.

[RXSF]

when the LS600H was planned, it didnt seem like fuel mileage was the key importance, but lexus is slowly learning their lessing with the HS and the new RX. Timing is everything. It probably seemed like a good idea to produce an S600 fighter at the time to hold their place as tier 1 status

[FKL]

Originally Posted by SLegacy99

Mercedes = Honda of Germany.

I hope this is referring to the way the hybrid systems are implemented. If not, crazy statement.

[encore888]

Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX

I truly want to see Lexus offer different hybrids over the same model.
LS 400h
LS 450h
LS 600h

etc instead of just a LS 600h L.

Also if the reports of Lexus becoming more regionally oriented according to exec Inaba (and we've seen some of this already with the CT 300h, the ES 240 etc.), we could conceivably see LS 450hs somewhere....

[Gojirra99]

Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX

I truly want to see Lexus offer different hybrids over the same model.
LS 400h
LS 450h
LS 600h

etc instead of just a LS 600h L.

Realistically, I don't see Lexus doing that many variations, but I would welcome a LS400h with Li-ion batteries(I would prefer that over a LS350), and of course a new LS600hL with them too.

But they need to have V12+HSD or V10+HSD if they really want to compete in hp with the TT S600 and the new TT 760Li now LOL ...

[SLegacy99]

Originally Posted by FKL

I hope this is referring to the way the hybrid systems are implemented. If not, crazy statement.

Its reffering to piss poor attempts at efficient technology.

BMW diesels > MB diesels.

[rominl]

Originally Posted by RXSF

those who dont believe in the EPA testing, it really doesnt matter. If all cars go through the same test, then even if they arent "realistic," they are judged on the same scale and can therefore be compared to each other. THough I have found that they do a pretty accurate job.

A little disapointed in the benz, but you really cant expect much from such a small battery pack. And why not just buy one of their diesels?

that's pretty much how i treat the epa ratings. i don't care how it compares to real life, it depends on driving habits. but i think it's a good way to compare between cars coz' they are all on the same standard

[bad co]

I hate the EPA they are honestly people with down syndrome they know nothing. They rate my ML500 at 19mpg highway I constantly average 25.9 highway and I have pics to prove. It's not over a 1 mile hypermiling stretch its my comute home from work of 21 miles.

[rominl]

Originally Posted by bad co

I hate the EPA they are honestly people with down syndrome they know nothing. They rate my ML500 at 19mpg highway I constantly average 25.9 highway and I have pics to prove. It's not over a 1 mile hypermiling stretch its my comute home from work of 21 miles.

again, it doesn't mean anything. driving habits dictate a lot on the gas mileage. the epa is for reference and imho between cars, not between their numbers and your real world driving

i am very sure someone with a heavier foot, he'd easily get 15mpg on highway in the ml500.

[1SICKLEX]

I thin on average they are pretty close to what people get. As Henry stated, your driving habits make a difference and I believe the EPA disclaimer says that.

[SLegacy99]

Benz estimates fuel economy for the S400 will be 23 in the city and 33 on the highway. EPA numbers are not yet official, but HybridCars.com did our own mileage test of this big luxury sedan on the roads of Southern Germany. Our drive loop took us from Stuttgart—the home of Mercedes Benz—to the town of Buel and back, a round trip of approximately 150 miles. The route was evenly comprised of high-speed driving on the Autobahn—where we ran at, ahem, greater than 100 mph—as well as moderately paced rural roads, and narrow streets through smaller hamlets. We achieved an impressive 29.3 miles per gallon—not bad for a car that weighs almost 5,000 pounds. (By the way, the V6 of the S400 is plenty strong for the Autobahn.)

With much stricter speed limits in the US, it’s reasonable that fuel economy results will be even better. But saving fuel and money is not the first concern for buyers of this car. The buyer of the S400 hybrid is probably just as interested in pairing the Mercedes three-pointed star emblem with a hybrid badge, to demonstrate a combined interest in luxury, refinement, and green status. Mercedes claims that the S400 is the “CO2 champion in the luxury class,” emitting a relatively low 186 grams of carbon per kilometer.

As the hybrid version of the Benz flagship S-Class sedan, the S400 is powered by a mild hybrid system with a 3.5-liter V6 gas engine. The hybrid system allows Mercedes to maintain its high-power profile, while using a V6 instead of a V8 or V12. The electric-gas combo provides a total output of 295 horsepower, channeled through a seven-speed automatic transmission. Benz is particularly proud of what it refers to as “compact” batter technology. Engineers made this hybrid system as well-packaged and light as possible. (Mercedes-Benz was able to fit the entire pack into the same space, at the right-hand base of the windshield, that previously housed the car’s standard lead-acid 12-Volt starter battery.) The S400 weighs only about 120 pounds more than the standard S-Class.

http://www.hybridcars.com/gas-mileag...rid-25826.html

[EyeKutr]

So I got an email from a local MB dealer....interesting car....undercuts the LS hybrid by about 15K I think
C&P from email
There’s no denying the buzz about fuel economy surrounding hybrid vehicles. However, a funny thing happened to hybrids on the way to the luxury category – the promise of impressive fuel economy seemed to go missing. The all-new 2010 Mercedes-Benz S400 Hybrid brings it back in resplendent luxury.

Mercedes-Benz is introducing the 2010 S400 Hybrid, the first ever full-size premium luxury hybrid sedan that can achieve 26 mpg on the highway. It does so without a frightening price premium that makes you wonder if choosing a hybrid is a smart choice at all.

The S400 Hybrid is, quite emphatically, a very smart choice. With an MSRP of $87,950, the S400 Hybrid is the new starting point in the extraordinary S-Class, which receives restyling and updates for 2010. Just for comparison’s sake, the 2010 Lexus LS600h L Hybrid sedan achieves 22 mpg on the highway and has an MSRP of $106,035.

The 2010 Mercedes-Benz S400 Hybrid teams a 275-hp V6 gasoline engine to a “mild” hybrid system. The disc-shaped electric motor is mounted in the torque converter housing between the engine and transmission.

This innovative hybrid system provides a 118 lb/ft torque boost under acceleration, controls automatic start/stop at traffic lights to reduce fuel consumption and emissions and recovers energy while braking to help recharge the lithium ion battery pack. A powerful computer controls the hybrid system, calculating the best operating mode 160 times a second to maintain an ideal balance between fuel economy and performance.

No worries about comfort with automatic start/stop. The air conditioning compressor and power steering pump are electrically operated and continue to function. The moment you release the brake, the engine starts and works with the electric motor for seamless performance.

The result is a V8-like driving experience with better fuel economy. Driving an S400 Hybrid, you’ll notice the classic S-Class quietness and smoothness, and you’ll also notice how the electric motor’s torque boost makes acceleration feel powerful and effortless. A special hybrid pictogram within the speedometer shows the energy flow, energy recovery and battery charge.

Some hybrid sedans sacrifice trunk room to house their battery packs. In contrast, the S400 Hybrid has the same large trunk space as all other S-Class models because its battery pack -- the world’s first lithium-ion battery designed specifically for automotive use – is installed in the engine compartment.

The rest of the S400 Hybrid is, well, pure S-Class, so it shares with other 2010 S-Class models freshened styling that includes a more streamlined front grille, larger outside mirrors and a new front bumper with a chrome strip below the air intakes. New active bi-xenon headlights feature LED turn signals along the lower edges.

At the rear, the 2010 S-Class models get LED taillights and exhaust outlets integrated within a recontoured rear bumper. The S400 Hybrid does not shout “Hybrid!” Rather, it softly conveys its mission with unique 18-inch wheels, “HYBRID” logos on the trunklid and dash and “Blue Efficiency” badges on the front fenders.

Inside, the 2010 S-Class comes with an upgraded wood/premium-leather steering wheel. Standard ambient lighting can be selected in three hues – polar (ice blue), neutral (white) and solar (amber). In addition, there’s a new rear-seat entertainment system available.

Mercedes-Benz remains a safety innovator and so it should not surprise you that the 2010 S-Class introduces six new and potentially lifesaving safety features. Attention Assist can recognize if you might need a rest from driving and alert you with a coffee cup icon appearing in the instrument cluster. Lane-Keeping Assist can alert you by simulating “rumble strip” vibrations in the steering wheel if the car drifts from its lane without the turn signals on. Nightview Assist Plus with pedestrian detection bathes the road ahead with invisible infrared light. Images of pedestrians from up to 500 feet ahead are projected in the instrument panel. The Pre-Safe Brake system can now apply full braking to bring the car to a stop if it detects an imminent collision and the driver has not reacted. Adaptive Highbeam Assist detects both headlights and taillights, then softly and automatically transitions between high and low beams to avoid dazzling other drivers. Finally, the ABC active suspension now also incorporates a new crosswind stabilization system, making the S-Class feel even more stable in very windy conditions.

Perhaps, within a few years, other premium luxury sedans will offer technology and benefits similar to the S400 Hybrid. Why wait when you can experience them today?

[encore888]

Neat that they mention the LS Hybrid by name! Of course, different cars, different purposes. I think that Lexus should come out with an LS 400h or something, maybe in the future. I like the ambient lighting on the S-Class! I'd also like to try the 'rumbling' simulation on the Lane Keep Assist; the lane keep system on the LS does not do that, but instead gives audible warnings and steers the car back (should you set it that way).

[Gojirra99]

A V6 LS400h makes sense , maybe more tha a LS350 ...