Mercedes S 400 Hybrid

[AD_SC3]

Um so how far would it go without the hybrid dead weight? Like Honda I belive they should have used this round for further development, rather thing bringing a weak hybrid to the market.

[I8ABMR]

is 21 mixed mpg something to brag about. I am surprised you cant get that out of a clean and efficient v8 not driven by a teen ager. Maybe I am used to Japanese cars I guess

[G Star]

if it's EPA rated at 19/26, you can expect real world mixed driving to come out to about 23 maybe 24mpg. Mainly highway driving can average you about 30mpg.

[1SICKLEX]

Originally Posted by G Star

if it's EPA rated at 19/26, you can expect real world mixed driving to come out to about 23 maybe 24mpg. Mainly highway driving can average you about 30mpg.

Agree and still not bad for a big Flagship.

[SLegacy99]

Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX

Agree and still not bad for a big Flagship.

It's not bad considering the S550 is rated for 14/22. Except the S400 has far less power. I'm sorry, but this kind of fuel economy is what I would expect from a 6 cylinder large vehicle. It is what I expect that we will see when the LS350 finally comes out.

[MPLexus301]

As I have stated a few times, in various threads, the LS 460 can efforlessly average 23-25MPG in combined driving and over 30MPG on the highway. The LS 600hL can do 20MPG in the city(EPA rating) and around 25MPG on the highway(personal experience), but has infinitely more power than the S400 and AWD. I have also seen the S550 do numbers similar to the LS 460, though not quite as good, so I just have to sit back and wonder...where does the S 400 fit in and what is it's sales pitch? Being a cut-rate (of the LSh) full size luxury hybrid? I'm confident that the S550 could nearly match the S400s EPA ratings while having a lot more power and being lower priced. The LS 600hL is clearly a superior hybrid when you look at the power ratings and AWD.

[SLegacy99]

Originally Posted by MPLexus301

The LS 600hL is clearly a superior hybrid when you look at the power ratings and AWD.

And I'm assuming it will be even better when it recieves the exhaust gas recovery system like the RX, Prius, and HS now have. I recall reading that the S400 would cost over $100,000. Why not get the 600hL if money is really an object when it comes to buying one of these.

[SLegacy99]

AMG's Green Initiatives Include Possibility of Diesels, Hybrids, and Turbo V-6s provided by


Mercedes's AMG performance division wants to offer guiltless pleasure for those who love performance cars but are tired of being criticized for a lack of commitment to save the planet.

On the eve of the 2008 Geneva auto show, AMG boss Volker Mornhinweg boldly announced that the fleet of performance cars will achieve a 30 percent reduction in carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions by 2012. Smaller engines, hybrid systems, and diesels are all on the table for Mercedes' thriving performance sub-brand.

Mornhinweg leveled a shot at BMW's claim to “efficient dynamics” which is spawning products such as the X5 Vision diesel hybrid concept, also unveiled in Geneva. AMG's roots are in racing, he said, and “racing was always about ‘efficient dynamics,’ we just called it differently.” He then went on to announce fuel-saving technologies to be offered in AMG cars across the globe.

In 2010, direct-injection gasoline engines and start-stop systems will mark the beginning of the push to lower consumption and emissions. AMG is developing a crankshaft starter-generator system that it claims is far more advanced that BMW's current system, which operates with a conventional starter.

Two-Mode Performance
But that kind of technology is just the beginning. AMG is working on full hybrid cars that can drive short distances with just the electric motor. Mercedes is part of a consortium with General Motors, Chrysler, and BMW in developing this “two-mode” or full hybrid system for use by each automaker.

Mercedes did not want to launch its version of the two-mode system in the M-class, as there already are hybrid SUVs on the market, and “we don't want to be a follower,” says Mornhinweg. For AMG, look for the technology to bow on a low, sporty car like the CL, the SL, or the CLS.

What's more, you may be able to get an AMG oil-burner. Mornhinweg: “We are monitoring the diesel. There is currently no demand, but if that changes, we can react immediately.”

The idea would not be new. Five years ago, AMG offered the 228-hp, five-cylinder C30 CDI turbo-diesel, and while it was successful in some Southern European markets, it was loud and generally unloved. AMG had not seriously considered a follow-up model, but that thinking has changed. By the end of 2008, the brand will have decided whether to proceed with a second diesel.

Turbocharged V-6s on Tap?
In a reversal of its strategy of the past few years, AMG could also offer six-cylinder gasoline engines again. This time around, they would be turbocharged. Mornhinweg says that a decision will be made soon. Turbocharged V-8 engines are already high on the agenda.

Despite all that fuel-saving technology, AMG continues to focus on fun and performance. The new MCT multi-clutch transmission--essentially Mercedes' seven-speed automatic with a multiclutch system replacing the torque converter--will migrate to more models after its debut in the SL63 AMG. The next-generation CLK and SLK are sure bets to receive the gearbox, while the C-class is an open question. It won't replace the automatic throughout the lineup as it is not well-suited to towing and does not fit the character of the S- or CL-class luxury cars.

AMG will also up its performance credibility with ceramic brakes. By now, they are reliable but cooling is still a challenge, and there needs to be a significant performance advantage over the regular brakes to warrant the additional cost.

AMG is hoping its fuel-saving announcements present a challenge to competitors. Porsche has announced a CO2 reduction of 30 percent for its V-6 hybrid powertrain over the regular V-6. But such savings across the entire fleet are “unrealistic,” Porsche board member Wolfgang Dürheimer tells us here in Geneva.

Last year, AMG sold 20,107 units, its best results ever. For 2008 and beyond, Mornhinweg is aiming for “further, profitable growth.” If he reaches his ambitious CO2 targets, Mother Earth won't really care.

Meanwhile, Daimler AG is claiming a breakthrough in battery technology, saying it has achieved the Holy Grail of adapting lithium-ion technology for automotive use--crucial to winning the race to offering hybrid, electric, and fuel-cell vehicles. It will be used in the Mercedes S 400 BlueHybrid staring in 2009. The stumbling block had been integrating the power source into the climate control system.

http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center-article_194/

[rogers2]

What does cafe standards has to do with my statement. I understand you have a hybrid and probably a little sensitive on the topic but the truth is that Mercedes doesn't really care about hybrids. Because as I stated early they could have produce more fuel efficient car a long time ago quote by their leading engineer. Buying a luxury hybrid for me would be a wasted of money because I purchase a new car every 3 years. I honestly think the S400 and LS600 is a wasted of money.

[SLegacy99]

Originally Posted by rogers2

What does cafe standards has to do with my statement. I understand you have a hybrid and probably a little sensitive on the topic but the truth is that Mercedes doesn't really care about hybrids. Because as I stated early they could have produce more fuel efficient car a long time ago quote by their leading engineer. Buying a luxury hybrid for me would be a wasted of money because I purchase a new car every 3 years. I honestly think the S400 and LS600 is a wasted of money.

1. Did you read the above article?

2. What does CAFE standards have to do with Mercedes and hybrids? Let me spell this out to you. Automakers have to make more fuel efficient cars. They don't have a choice or they get fined money. Money that is passed on to the consumer in the cost of the car. A $70,000 E350 isn't as appealing as say an E350 (that meets the standards) that costs $50,000.
At this point, ways to increase fuel efficiency = hybrid or diesel...or smaller motors, less HP.

What we've learned here:

A. CAFE standard means that automakers must have a fleet average of 35 MPG by 2016 or they pay fines.
B. Hybrids/Diesels are enabling automakers to do this.
C. Mercedes has to have hybrids/diesels to do this.
i. The article I posted above states that Mercedes AMG line is considering a number of methods to build potent, yet efficient vehicles.
ii. Daimler would not have invested with GM, Chrylser, and BMW on a two mode hybrid system if they weren't going to utilize it.

[4TehNguyen]

hey good thing they just got less stringent CAFE standards, close call

[IS350jet]

If you ask me, the S400 H is a joke of a hybrid. The battery is the size of a shoe box, the electric motor is only 20 HP, and the car can never be driven on electricity, alone. It is barely a hybrid at all. Why did MB even bother?

[SLegacy99]

Originally Posted by 4TehNguyen

hey good thing they just got less stringent CAFE standards, close call

That will be very absurd if that passes. Why have CAFE standards at all then?

[1SICKLEX]

Originally Posted by IS350jet

If you ask me, the S400 H is a joke of a hybrid. The battery is the size of a shoe box, the electric motor is only 20 HP, and the car can never be driven on electricity, alone. It is barely a hybrid at all. Why did MB even bother?

Well they didn't want to do what Lexus does, they wanted to go a different route. Its a first effort so they can only learn from it. I credit them for making it.

[RXSF]

those who dont believe in the EPA testing, it really doesnt matter. If all cars go through the same test, then even if they arent "realistic," they are judged on the same scale and can therefore be compared to each other. THough I have found that they do a pretty accurate job.

A little disapointed in the benz, but you really cant expect much from such a small battery pack. And why not just buy one of their diesels?