go build your own 135i at BMWUSA.COM...over $42k with prem + sports pkg and NO NAV
01-26-08, 10:26 AM
#32
MPLexus, it's not convincing to people if you're comparing this 1 series to other brands being thousands to $10,000+ cheaper.
Can't compare the accord/camry/avalon with the 1 series and pocketing the change b/c that can be applied to anything out there
Non 1-series buyer would be asked what we're smoking
Can't compare the accord/camry/avalon with the 1 series and pocketing the change b/c that can be applied to anything out there
Non 1-series buyer would be asked what we're smoking
01-26-08, 10:28 AM
#33
MPLexus, it's not convincing to people if you're comparing this 1 series to other brands being thousands to $10,000+ cheaper.
Can't compare the accord/camry/avalon with the 1 series and pocketing the change b/c that can be applied to anything out there
Non 1-series buyer would be asked what we're smoking
Can't compare the accord/camry/avalon with the 1 series and pocketing the change b/c that can be applied to anything out there
Non 1-series buyer would be asked what we're smoking
01-26-08, 11:33 AM
#36
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Don't worry, regardless the MSRP, sooner or later the dealers are going to sell them for thousands below MSRP, or even invoice price. $30k for a base 135i or $36k for a loaded one sounds about right.
01-26-08, 11:35 AM
#37
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From enthusiast's point of view, I would just care about the driving experience and forego all the unnecessary options (opinion that not everyone will subscribe to).
With that assumption in mind, here's a stripper's comparison between the 1 and 3:
135i (leather) - $37,125.
335i cp (leather & sport pkg) - $44.125.
--------------------------------------
difference: $7,000
One doesn't even need the sports pkg for 135, since the sport calibration for springs/wheels/dampers is standard, while one has to get the sport pkg on the 335 coupe to get the staggered wheel/tire setup.
128i (leather, xenons, sport pkg) - $32,825.
328i (leather, sport pkg) - $38,525.
-------------------------------------------
difference: $5,700
So, unless you go overboard with options (financially not the smartest thing, although it is a perslonal choice), there is a considerable price differential between the 1 and 3, one could argue. Whether this differential is sufficient to satisfy pontential customers is another topic, though.
I don't think that the comparisons to Camry and Accord are relevant, since the target audience is so different. I do like the Accord interior best out of the 3 pics, but that is a taste thing (subjective).
I would rather think about this in terms of market segment: what other coupe offerings are out there at the moment that are in the same class as a 135?... I think that it has to be a coupe and have two doors, at least. The only ones I can think of from the top of my head are Nissan 350Z, Infinity G35/37 coupe, BMW 335 coupe and Mustang (stretching it a bit).
Both the 350Z and G37 are a better value than the 135. I doubt mustang buyers are in the same market as the 1. So, it appears that the 1 has no obvious competitors on the same level as itself (pricewise). It has a potential sibling competitor that is more expensive, but is larger and better looking (arguably).
So, I am a bit puzzled as to what the BMW aim is for this car. Are they betting on discovering a new market niche (similar to what Subaru did with the WRX)? - Are there some hidden customers lurking out there with adequately deep pockets, ready to spring up for a premium small car? One interesting thing to consider is that the STI and Evo are also moving upmarket, although not quite to the same level.
One things is for sure - 135 is not the bargain car for speed junkies (that previous-gen Evo or STI were), nor the light, affordable sports car for the masses the way the GTI (or 2002, if it was affordable) were. It remains to be seen who's going to pony up the dough for it. My guess is that 128 will be the volume seller, since it affords one the BMW badge for relatively pedestrian $35K range, which may be what BMW is aiming for... Oh... assuming you can get one with no options.
With that assumption in mind, here's a stripper's comparison between the 1 and 3:
135i (leather) - $37,125.
335i cp (leather & sport pkg) - $44.125.
--------------------------------------
difference: $7,000
One doesn't even need the sports pkg for 135, since the sport calibration for springs/wheels/dampers is standard, while one has to get the sport pkg on the 335 coupe to get the staggered wheel/tire setup.
128i (leather, xenons, sport pkg) - $32,825.
328i (leather, sport pkg) - $38,525.
-------------------------------------------
difference: $5,700
So, unless you go overboard with options (financially not the smartest thing, although it is a perslonal choice), there is a considerable price differential between the 1 and 3, one could argue. Whether this differential is sufficient to satisfy pontential customers is another topic, though.
I don't think that the comparisons to Camry and Accord are relevant, since the target audience is so different. I do like the Accord interior best out of the 3 pics, but that is a taste thing (subjective).
I would rather think about this in terms of market segment: what other coupe offerings are out there at the moment that are in the same class as a 135?... I think that it has to be a coupe and have two doors, at least. The only ones I can think of from the top of my head are Nissan 350Z, Infinity G35/37 coupe, BMW 335 coupe and Mustang (stretching it a bit).
Both the 350Z and G37 are a better value than the 135. I doubt mustang buyers are in the same market as the 1. So, it appears that the 1 has no obvious competitors on the same level as itself (pricewise). It has a potential sibling competitor that is more expensive, but is larger and better looking (arguably).
So, I am a bit puzzled as to what the BMW aim is for this car. Are they betting on discovering a new market niche (similar to what Subaru did with the WRX)? - Are there some hidden customers lurking out there with adequately deep pockets, ready to spring up for a premium small car? One interesting thing to consider is that the STI and Evo are also moving upmarket, although not quite to the same level.
One things is for sure - 135 is not the bargain car for speed junkies (that previous-gen Evo or STI were), nor the light, affordable sports car for the masses the way the GTI (or 2002, if it was affordable) were. It remains to be seen who's going to pony up the dough for it. My guess is that 128 will be the volume seller, since it affords one the BMW badge for relatively pedestrian $35K range, which may be what BMW is aiming for... Oh... assuming you can get one with no options.
01-26-08, 11:42 AM
#38
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Isn't some of the reasons for the 1-series greater volume and profit for BMW? Otherwise, I don't think it would be here in the US.
For as much as $46K, for a sedan no bigger than a Civic and no better IMO, what makes them think they're going to a volume seller?
Oh, and BTW, I'll take a Corolla AND Mazda 3 AND Civic TOGETHER in my driveway all with better quality for the same money. Yes, you could own all three!
For as much as $46K, for a sedan no bigger than a Civic and no better IMO, what makes them think they're going to a volume seller?
Oh, and BTW, I'll take a Corolla AND Mazda 3 AND Civic TOGETHER in my driveway all with better quality for the same money. Yes, you could own all three!
01-26-08, 11:52 AM
#39
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I'm calling that the best crack-back of the year, and it's only January.
The 1's pop-up NAV modded to that 80's design is laughable. A new low to previously disappointing BMW interiors going back decades. The interior of the 3-series redesign is almost as bad, something out of the 90's--orange-red backlighting--are you kidding me? I was in a 5-series the other day, which was a cheap imitation of an Infiniti. I spend most of my time on the inside of my car. No thanks!
The 1's pop-up NAV modded to that 80's design is laughable. A new low to previously disappointing BMW interiors going back decades. The interior of the 3-series redesign is almost as bad, something out of the 90's--orange-red backlighting--are you kidding me? I was in a 5-series the other day, which was a cheap imitation of an Infiniti. I spend most of my time on the inside of my car. No thanks!
01-26-08, 12:08 PM
#40
It's using the same engines as the 3 series so I really doubt their average fuel economy will even go up with the introduction of the 1 series. I'd rather pony up some more money for a much better looking car with more space. But that's just me, I'm sure people will still buy this thing. Although the 1 series 3dr hatch is pretty pimp I must say for a hot hatch. The coupe/convertible really look awful to me. I saw one in Boston a couple weeks back and I had no idea how someone got a hold of one because it was before they were even selling 1 series at all in the US and the US doesn't get the hatch/sedan models.
01-26-08, 02:28 PM
#43
Lexus Fanatic
That interior is horrible and a new low for bangle interiors, looks like they went out of their way to make it look plain and cheap yet still price it over 30K. My 96 Accord had a nicer interior, the TSX has a much nicer interior and is thousands less with more room and better reliability. This will probrably be the new it car for yuppies who want a BMW badge. The car is not for enthusiasts because enthusiasts know they are getting ripped off and there are much better alternatives. The 1 series is a 25K small car jacked up to the high 30,s and over 40K because of a BMW badge.
Last edited by UDel; 01-26-08 at 02:31 PM.
01-26-08, 02:43 PM
#44
While I agree that is too expensive for what it is.
It isn't as bad as many of you are making it out to be. It is not a $20k car because it is a modified E90 chassis, with E90 engine options and a somewhat cheapened interior. This is not comparable to a Civic. I don't think this is a smart move on BMW's part (along with the slew of other useless models they're coming out with) because of pricing not because of the car itself. I don't like what it looks like but the idea it was supposed to bring was good, a cheaper BMW because the 3 series has gone a little more upmarket.
If they wanted to make a cheaper BMW they should've modified a Mini and sold it under Mini. The 1 series doesn't offer anything the 3 series doesn't except for a mildly cheaper price tag, which IMO is not worth it. Buy a 3 series if you want a BMW, buy a Mini if you want BMW driving dynamics but not the BMW price.
It isn't as bad as many of you are making it out to be. It is not a $20k car because it is a modified E90 chassis, with E90 engine options and a somewhat cheapened interior. This is not comparable to a Civic. I don't think this is a smart move on BMW's part (along with the slew of other useless models they're coming out with) because of pricing not because of the car itself. I don't like what it looks like but the idea it was supposed to bring was good, a cheaper BMW because the 3 series has gone a little more upmarket.
If they wanted to make a cheaper BMW they should've modified a Mini and sold it under Mini. The 1 series doesn't offer anything the 3 series doesn't except for a mildly cheaper price tag, which IMO is not worth it. Buy a 3 series if you want a BMW, buy a Mini if you want BMW driving dynamics but not the BMW price.
01-26-08, 04:44 PM
#45
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