Please--Turn on Your Headights in the Rain
12-03-07, 05:27 AM
#1
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
Please--Turn on Your Headights in the Rain
It rained much of Sunday here in PA. It amazes me that so many people drive around without their headlights on in the rain. PA has a law that requires headlights to be on when you need your wipers, but it's not enforced. Even when the rain gets heavy, and the spray starts to kick up onto the windshield, so many people not turn on their lights--even though most people passing by them do. Here in the northeast, during gray winter afternoons, when the rain or snow starts, you really need those lights on (especially to guard against those nut jobs that clear a 6" strip of snow of their front windshield, and then go--how can they see anything?? But that's a whole separate thread).
And--this goes for all of you Lexus owners who keep the headlights in "Auto" too--they don't come on in the rain (I think they should come on when your wipers start going consistently, but that's IMO). You need to manually turn them on--or at least turn them to the parking/city lights, so you can drive with the DRL's on in front, and tail lights in back. And--if you live an a state with "Wipers on/headlights on" laws, YOU'LL be cited if there's an accident.
That's the end of my rant--thanks for reading.
And--this goes for all of you Lexus owners who keep the headlights in "Auto" too--they don't come on in the rain (I think they should come on when your wipers start going consistently, but that's IMO). You need to manually turn them on--or at least turn them to the parking/city lights, so you can drive with the DRL's on in front, and tail lights in back. And--if you live an a state with "Wipers on/headlights on" laws, YOU'LL be cited if there's an accident.
That's the end of my rant--thanks for reading.
12-03-07, 06:13 AM
#2
Lexus Fanatic
Nope. Sorry. I respect your opinion, 
but I don't agree with lights-with-wiper-on laws...and yes, we do have that law here in VA (or when visibility is less than 500 feet).
In both my state and yours, whether we agree or not, of course, is a moot point because it is a public law, but I don't see the point in having a law like this. First, I drove, literally, for decades, without any accidents or visibility problems, all over the Eastern U.S., in all kinds of weather and road surfaces, down to almost zero visibility, without laws like this....and my eyes aren't necessarily any better than those of most people. Second, why should Big Brother be telling us when to turn the lights on and when not to? The average person has enough intelligence to determine that for himself or herself (and, as an ex-airplane pilot, I certainly had the judgement to know how to determine visibility). Third, Drivers' Licenses, just like Pilot's Licenses, are issued for a reason. If you, as a driver, DON'T have enough sense to know when to turn your lights on and off, then IMO you shouldn't have a license at all. Neither, IMO, should you have a license if your eyes are that poor. Better vision testing at DMV centers would help with that problem.....the present eye tests are a joke, and are rarely actually given. Fourth, most of today's new vehicles already have DRL's (Daytime Running Lights) that go on and off with the ignition and parking brake...they pretty much have the same effect. Fifth, look at what DRL's actually do.........they run the headlights continuously (though at slightly less intensity).........placing a lot of unnecessary wear on what can be very expensive bulbs in some upscale cars. Go check out the price of a replacement Xenon, Arc-Lamp, or HID bulb lately....they can cost real money. Sixth, when the DRL's wear out the bulbs prematurely, then you have NO headlights at all..........they are not there at all when you DO need them. Seventh, if you're THAT concerned about visibility, don't buy a gray or silver car...those colors blend in with the gray asphalt on the road surface and make the car harder to see at a distance. Instead, get a white car, or, if possible, a bright color like orange, red, or yellow for visibility.......though too many cars are only offered in dull colors; that is a point I often bring up in my auto reviews. Eighth, if you keep your windshield clean, free of film, change your wiper blades when you should (in most areas, every year-and-a-half or so due to rubber deterioration, ozone, and oxidation), you will have good visibility just with the wipers alone....you won't need extra lights.
So........as you say, we're stuck with that law, but you are complaining that it is not enforced. Perhaps now, you see WHY it is not enforced.
but I don't agree with lights-with-wiper-on laws...and yes, we do have that law here in VA (or when visibility is less than 500 feet). In both my state and yours, whether we agree or not, of course, is a moot point because it is a public law, but I don't see the point in having a law like this. First, I drove, literally, for decades, without any accidents or visibility problems, all over the Eastern U.S., in all kinds of weather and road surfaces, down to almost zero visibility, without laws like this....and my eyes aren't necessarily any better than those of most people. Second, why should Big Brother be telling us when to turn the lights on and when not to? The average person has enough intelligence to determine that for himself or herself (and, as an ex-airplane pilot, I certainly had the judgement to know how to determine visibility). Third, Drivers' Licenses, just like Pilot's Licenses, are issued for a reason. If you, as a driver, DON'T have enough sense to know when to turn your lights on and off, then IMO you shouldn't have a license at all. Neither, IMO, should you have a license if your eyes are that poor. Better vision testing at DMV centers would help with that problem.....the present eye tests are a joke, and are rarely actually given. Fourth, most of today's new vehicles already have DRL's (Daytime Running Lights) that go on and off with the ignition and parking brake...they pretty much have the same effect. Fifth, look at what DRL's actually do.........they run the headlights continuously (though at slightly less intensity).........placing a lot of unnecessary wear on what can be very expensive bulbs in some upscale cars. Go check out the price of a replacement Xenon, Arc-Lamp, or HID bulb lately....they can cost real money. Sixth, when the DRL's wear out the bulbs prematurely, then you have NO headlights at all..........they are not there at all when you DO need them. Seventh, if you're THAT concerned about visibility, don't buy a gray or silver car...those colors blend in with the gray asphalt on the road surface and make the car harder to see at a distance. Instead, get a white car, or, if possible, a bright color like orange, red, or yellow for visibility.......though too many cars are only offered in dull colors; that is a point I often bring up in my auto reviews. Eighth, if you keep your windshield clean, free of film, change your wiper blades when you should (in most areas, every year-and-a-half or so due to rubber deterioration, ozone, and oxidation), you will have good visibility just with the wipers alone....you won't need extra lights.
So........as you say, we're stuck with that law, but you are complaining that it is not enforced. Perhaps now, you see WHY it is not enforced.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-03-07 at 06:37 AM.
12-03-07, 06:39 AM
#3
Nope. Sorry. I respect your opinion, but I don't agree with lights-with-wiper-on laws...and yes, we do have that law here in VA (or when visibility is less than 500 feet).
In both my state and yours, whether we agree or not, of course, is a moot point because it is a public law, but I don't see the point in having a law like this. First, I drove, literally, for decades, without any accidents or visibility problems, all over the Eastern U.S., in all kinds of weather and road surfaces, down to almost zero visibility, without laws like this....and my eyes aren't necessarily any better than those of most people. Second, why should Big Brother be telling us when to turn the lights on and when not to? The average person has enough intelligence to determine that for himself or herself (and, as an ex-airplane pilot, I certainly had the judgement to know how to determine visibility). Third, Drivers' Licenses, just like Pilot's Licenses, are issued for a reason. If you, as a driver, DON'T have enough sense to know when to turn your lights on and off, then IMO you shouldn't have a license at all. Neither, IMO, should you have a license if your eyes are that poor. Better vision testing at DMV centers would help with that problem.....the present eye tests are a joke, and are rarely actually given. Fourth, most of today's new vehicles already have DRL's (Daytime Running Lights) that go on and off with the ignition and parking brake...they pretty much have the same effect. Fifth, look at what DRL's actually do.........they run the headlights continuously (though at slightly less intensity).........placing a lot of unnecessary wear on what can be very expensive bulbs in some upscale cars. Go check out the price of a replacement Xenon, Arc-Lamp, or HID bulb lately....they can cost real money. Sixth, when the DRL's wear ou the bulbs prematurely, then you have NO headlights at all..........they are not there at all when you DO need them. Seventh, if you're THAT concerned about visibility, don't buy a gray or silver car...those colors blend in with the gray asphalt on the road surface and make the car harder to see at a distance. Instead, get a white car, or, if possible, a bright color like orange, red, or yellow for visibility.......though too many cars are only offered in dull colors; that is a point I often bring up in my auto reviews.
So........as you say, we're stuck with that law, but you are complaining that it is not enforced. Perhaps now, you see WHY it is not enforced.
but I don't agree with lights-with-wiper-on laws...and yes, we do have that law here in VA (or when visibility is less than 500 feet). In both my state and yours, whether we agree or not, of course, is a moot point because it is a public law, but I don't see the point in having a law like this. First, I drove, literally, for decades, without any accidents or visibility problems, all over the Eastern U.S., in all kinds of weather and road surfaces, down to almost zero visibility, without laws like this....and my eyes aren't necessarily any better than those of most people. Second, why should Big Brother be telling us when to turn the lights on and when not to? The average person has enough intelligence to determine that for himself or herself (and, as an ex-airplane pilot, I certainly had the judgement to know how to determine visibility). Third, Drivers' Licenses, just like Pilot's Licenses, are issued for a reason. If you, as a driver, DON'T have enough sense to know when to turn your lights on and off, then IMO you shouldn't have a license at all. Neither, IMO, should you have a license if your eyes are that poor. Better vision testing at DMV centers would help with that problem.....the present eye tests are a joke, and are rarely actually given. Fourth, most of today's new vehicles already have DRL's (Daytime Running Lights) that go on and off with the ignition and parking brake...they pretty much have the same effect. Fifth, look at what DRL's actually do.........they run the headlights continuously (though at slightly less intensity).........placing a lot of unnecessary wear on what can be very expensive bulbs in some upscale cars. Go check out the price of a replacement Xenon, Arc-Lamp, or HID bulb lately....they can cost real money. Sixth, when the DRL's wear ou the bulbs prematurely, then you have NO headlights at all..........they are not there at all when you DO need them. Seventh, if you're THAT concerned about visibility, don't buy a gray or silver car...those colors blend in with the gray asphalt on the road surface and make the car harder to see at a distance. Instead, get a white car, or, if possible, a bright color like orange, red, or yellow for visibility.......though too many cars are only offered in dull colors; that is a point I often bring up in my auto reviews.
So........as you say, we're stuck with that law, but you are complaining that it is not enforced. Perhaps now, you see WHY it is not enforced.
12-03-07, 06:42 AM
#4
G35x - RWD/AWD goodness
mmarshall, I don't think tex2670 was writing about a headlamp law as much as he was suggesting some driver safety tips. It seems most drivers drive too fast for the conditions. If you're on the expressway with everybody doing 70mph, and it's raining cats and dogs, the best vision and/or all the electronic aids in the world can't help you if you can't see, or be seen, by some battle ship gray car.
Either way, lights on during rain IMO is very important.
Either way, lights on during rain IMO is very important.
Last edited by Overclocker; 12-03-07 at 06:53 AM.
12-03-07, 06:48 AM
#5
Lexus Fanatic
I guess that just because you can see fine means that others don't need to see you. This kind of logic can be paired with the thinking that you don't need to turn on your headlights when it's foggy out just because you can see just fine... or not shutting off your engine because you don't want your car to get hot for the three minutes that it's sitting at the pump. Do us a favor down here in the rainy state and stay out... We don't need crap logic like this endangering those of us that drive in summer storms EVERY DAY, EVERY SUMMER.
Have a nice day.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-03-07 at 07:06 AM.
12-03-07, 06:53 AM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
mmarshall, I don't think tex2670 was writing about a headlamp law as much as he was suggesting some driver safety tips. It seems most drivers drive too fast for the conditions. If you're on the expressway with everybody doing 70mph, and it's raining cats and dogs, the best vision or all the electronic aids in the world can't help you if you don't see, or aren't seen, by some battle ship gray car.
Either way, lights on during rain IMO is very important.
Either way, lights on during rain IMO is very important.
I fully agree. TURN the lights on when they are needed. The problem is that Big Brother shouldn't be dictating when and when that should be done, based on an arbitrary set of conditions, on paper, that doesn't necessarily translate into real conditions on the road. That was my main objection....your judgement, as a driver, should be taken into account. And the DRL's often wear out bulbs prematurely so that you don't have the lights when you DO need them.And you are definitely correct that many drivers go too fast for conditions. Much of that is either due to impaitence, overconfidence with safety aids like AWD, or just not taking road surface traction into account.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-03-07 at 07:08 AM.
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12-03-07, 07:16 AM
#8
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
There was another thread last week regarding drunk driving, and the point was made that many laws are written to protect society against those that are the least common denominator. This law is one of them--I don't propose that it must be a law. And I don't think that the lights must go on the second a droplet hits the windshield.
I've been driving for over 20 years, and it's always been taught, in driving school and driving tests, that in inclemate weather, you should have headlights on. The laws go on the books, the way they are written, because it's the easiest standard. It would be impossible to measure that, say, lights go on when when visibility reaches XXX feet.
A good point is raised--I see people without their lights on in the fog, too. Hell--I see them driving at dusk or dawn without headlights.
And as far as regulating who should get a license or not--let's not be silly. My 85 year old grandmother, living in FL, was allowed to renew her license by mail. I don't think DMVs are going to start testing for night vision. My own personal opinion is that you don't need "poor" vision to be hampered by rain or snow--I have 20/20 and 20/25 vision in my eyes, and when it's raining heavily or steadily, I am sometimes surprised seeing a car come up behind or elsewhere without lights. Not to mention those that do not slow down and weave in and out of traffic--you may see them coming, but not as soon as you would on a clear day.
It's not the "average" person that these types of laws are aimed at.
I've been driving for over 20 years, and it's always been taught, in driving school and driving tests, that in inclemate weather, you should have headlights on. The laws go on the books, the way they are written, because it's the easiest standard. It would be impossible to measure that, say, lights go on when when visibility reaches XXX feet.
A good point is raised--I see people without their lights on in the fog, too. Hell--I see them driving at dusk or dawn without headlights.
And as far as regulating who should get a license or not--let's not be silly. My 85 year old grandmother, living in FL, was allowed to renew her license by mail. I don't think DMVs are going to start testing for night vision. My own personal opinion is that you don't need "poor" vision to be hampered by rain or snow--I have 20/20 and 20/25 vision in my eyes, and when it's raining heavily or steadily, I am sometimes surprised seeing a car come up behind or elsewhere without lights. Not to mention those that do not slow down and weave in and out of traffic--you may see them coming, but not as soon as you would on a clear day.
It's not the "average" person that these types of laws are aimed at.
12-03-07, 07:34 AM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
I am an ex-airplane pilot. You should see what we went through just for a Third-Class Medical Certificate good for two years, never mind a Second-Class or First-Class one for airline pilots....or what the military demands for its own pilots. You don't just re-apply for permission to fly an airplane by mail....you've got to prove yourself, and with regular flight testing as well.
And then there is the whole issue of fraudulent licenses obtained by illegal immigrants.....but that is getting off the thread topic and another whole issue, so I won't get into that.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-03-07 at 07:38 AM.
12-03-07, 08:01 AM
#10
Apples and Oranges. Your points are invalid. First, I always shut my engine off at the pumps....a couple of minutes of heat soak is not going to harm it. Second, my eyes here are not the issue...the issue is that those whose eyes are that bad should not be driving automobiles. Third, I was careful to tell tex2670 that I respected his opinion even though I disagreed with it..........you need to learn a little of the same courtesy. Fourth, he was complaining, in the thread topic, that the law is not enforced.....maybe that is WHY that law is not more widely enforced.
Have a nice day.
Have a nice day.
There is no need to jump on your soapbox anytime someone has an issue with how others drive...
12-03-07, 08:05 AM
#11
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
My point exactly. No offense to your grandmother, but does that make any sense...giving someone that age a license to drive anywhere in the country, under any conditions, without a least a cursory vision check? Not in my book. My own late mother, for example, even though she took care of her health, had noticeable eye and driving problems well before the age of 85.
I am an ex-airplane pilot. You should see what we went through just for a Third-Class Medical Certificate good for two years, never mind a Second-Class or First-Class one for airline pilots....or what the military demands for its own pilots. You don't just re-apply for permission to fly an airplane by mail....you've got to prove yourself, and with regular flight testing as well.
And then there is the whole issue of fraudulent licenses obtained by illegal immigrants.....but that is getting off the thread topic and another whole issue, so I won't get into that.
I am an ex-airplane pilot. You should see what we went through just for a Third-Class Medical Certificate good for two years, never mind a Second-Class or First-Class one for airline pilots....or what the military demands for its own pilots. You don't just re-apply for permission to fly an airplane by mail....you've got to prove yourself, and with regular flight testing as well.
And then there is the whole issue of fraudulent licenses obtained by illegal immigrants.....but that is getting off the thread topic and another whole issue, so I won't get into that.
But, would you advocate that there is no need for planes to have landing lights or other lights, since pilots all have excellent vision and are tested regularly? Or tall buildings with blinking lights on them? It's a clear day here in Philly, and I am looking out my window at a number of tall buildings and transmission towers with lights blinking on top of them.
12-03-07, 08:06 AM
#12
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This is silly. The fact is that you should have your lights on when its raining. I take the backroads to work in the summertime and in PA drivers tend to hug the middle of the road, especially these narrow roads. Its tree covered and dark. I can't tell you how many green or black colored cars have come at me down the middle of the road without lights on. Even in good weather its tough to spot these cars until they are close to you, because they blend in with the surroundings. I also support DRLs because of this situation.
I also think that PA is the place where I have seen the most people driving around in poor visibility without lights on.
I also think that PA is the place where I have seen the most people driving around in poor visibility without lights on.
12-03-07, 10:04 AM
#14
That being said, your points are still irrelevant and invalid. Your logic of thinking that just because it's a useless law is pointless. how about being a courteous driver? Just because you drive 5 miles per hour under the speed limit doesn't mean that you are a courteous driver... Remind me to stay off the VA roads... Because if half the people have that same kind of mentality... Look out. Well, wait... actually... we wouldn't see them coming because they have their headlights off when it's raining.
There is no need to jump on your soapbox anytime someone has an issue with how others drive...
There is no need to jump on your soapbox anytime someone has an issue with how others drive...
Having lived in Tampa for over 10 years, witnessing rain at its worse, i can definitely say that headlights need to be on while using your wipers.
12-03-07, 10:29 AM
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Nope. Sorry. I respect your opinion, but I don't agree with lights-with-wiper-on laws...and yes, we do have that law here in VA (or when visibility is less than 500 feet).
In both my state and yours, whether we agree or not, of course, is a moot point because it is a public law, but I don't see the point in having a law like this. First, I drove, literally, for decades, without any accidents or visibility problems, all over the Eastern U.S., in all kinds of weather and road surfaces, down to almost zero visibility, without laws like this....and my eyes aren't necessarily any better than those of most people. Second, why should Big Brother be telling us when to turn the lights on and when not to? The average person has enough intelligence to determine that for himself or herself (and, as an ex-airplane pilot, I certainly had the judgement to know how to determine visibility). Third, Drivers' Licenses, just like Pilot's Licenses, are issued for a reason. If you, as a driver, DON'T have enough sense to know when to turn your lights on and off, then IMO you shouldn't have a license at all. Neither, IMO, should you have a license if your eyes are that poor. Better vision testing at DMV centers would help with that problem.....the present eye tests are a joke, and are rarely actually given. Fourth, most of today's new vehicles already have DRL's (Daytime Running Lights) that go on and off with the ignition and parking brake...they pretty much have the same effect. Fifth, look at what DRL's actually do.........they run the headlights continuously (though at slightly less intensity).........placing a lot of unnecessary wear on what can be very expensive bulbs in some upscale cars. Go check out the price of a replacement Xenon, Arc-Lamp, or HID bulb lately....they can cost real money. Sixth, when the DRL's wear out the bulbs prematurely, then you have NO headlights at all..........they are not there at all when you DO need them. Seventh, if you're THAT concerned about visibility, don't buy a gray or silver car...those colors blend in with the gray asphalt on the road surface and make the car harder to see at a distance. Instead, get a white car, or, if possible, a bright color like orange, red, or yellow for visibility.......though too many cars are only offered in dull colors; that is a point I often bring up in my auto reviews. Eighth, if you keep your windshield clean, free of film, change your wiper blades when you should (in most areas, every year-and-a-half or so due to rubber deterioration, ozone, and oxidation), you will have good visibility just with the wipers alone....you won't need extra lights.
So........as you say, we're stuck with that law, but you are complaining that it is not enforced. Perhaps now, you see WHY it is not enforced.
but I don't agree with lights-with-wiper-on laws...and yes, we do have that law here in VA (or when visibility is less than 500 feet). In both my state and yours, whether we agree or not, of course, is a moot point because it is a public law, but I don't see the point in having a law like this. First, I drove, literally, for decades, without any accidents or visibility problems, all over the Eastern U.S., in all kinds of weather and road surfaces, down to almost zero visibility, without laws like this....and my eyes aren't necessarily any better than those of most people. Second, why should Big Brother be telling us when to turn the lights on and when not to? The average person has enough intelligence to determine that for himself or herself (and, as an ex-airplane pilot, I certainly had the judgement to know how to determine visibility). Third, Drivers' Licenses, just like Pilot's Licenses, are issued for a reason. If you, as a driver, DON'T have enough sense to know when to turn your lights on and off, then IMO you shouldn't have a license at all. Neither, IMO, should you have a license if your eyes are that poor. Better vision testing at DMV centers would help with that problem.....the present eye tests are a joke, and are rarely actually given. Fourth, most of today's new vehicles already have DRL's (Daytime Running Lights) that go on and off with the ignition and parking brake...they pretty much have the same effect. Fifth, look at what DRL's actually do.........they run the headlights continuously (though at slightly less intensity).........placing a lot of unnecessary wear on what can be very expensive bulbs in some upscale cars. Go check out the price of a replacement Xenon, Arc-Lamp, or HID bulb lately....they can cost real money. Sixth, when the DRL's wear out the bulbs prematurely, then you have NO headlights at all..........they are not there at all when you DO need them. Seventh, if you're THAT concerned about visibility, don't buy a gray or silver car...those colors blend in with the gray asphalt on the road surface and make the car harder to see at a distance. Instead, get a white car, or, if possible, a bright color like orange, red, or yellow for visibility.......though too many cars are only offered in dull colors; that is a point I often bring up in my auto reviews. Eighth, if you keep your windshield clean, free of film, change your wiper blades when you should (in most areas, every year-and-a-half or so due to rubber deterioration, ozone, and oxidation), you will have good visibility just with the wipers alone....you won't need extra lights.
So........as you say, we're stuck with that law, but you are complaining that it is not enforced. Perhaps now, you see WHY it is not enforced.
While your car review opinions are strongly in line with mine, on other issues, I sometimes feel that you like to argue for the sake of arguing. If something isn't in line with your beliefs, you're totally unreceptive to it.
As far as I'm concerned, your lights should be on in heavy rain, overcast, foggy and other poor weather conditions. This is not for YOUR visibility, but for OTHER people to see your car better and vice versa.
If after all your years of driving, you haven't noticed this, then your observational skills are in question and I believe it is your driving that poses a safety threat to other people on the road.
