Toyota/Subaru/Scion Lightweight Sports Car: Toyota GT86, Subaru BRZ, Scion FRS!
02-01-12, 11:25 PM
#2026
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So you complain when the FT86 is compared to a s2000, then proceed to say it's superior to a 911 and make a comparison to Ferrari? 
Calling it a "sports car" is just semantics. Call it what you want. It's performance, stock for stock, is still below any of the cars you've mentioned.
Calling it a "sports car" is just semantics. Call it what you want. It's performance, stock for stock, is still below any of the cars you've mentioned.
My complain is, you're calling it a sport compact coupe, since it's obviously not. I don't really bother if you call Renault Megane RS Trophy a compact coupe/hatch back even it's the fastest production FWD car. Toyota also made sure the back seat can fit 4 tires and track gear.
Last edited by cino; 02-01-12 at 11:33 PM.
02-01-12, 11:36 PM
#2027
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I looked at a BRZ at the Washington, D.C. Auto Show yesterday (Scion didn't have its version there). The floor-display was generally roped-off, but they were allowing some people (I was one of them) to sit in it and examine underhood, interior, and in the trunk. It was somewhat smaller, in physical size, than I expected it to be...only marginally larger than a Mazda Miata. You mention a more-premium interior in the Subaru version, but, while it was not military-stark inside, I was not terribly impressed with the interior trim-level or fit/finish. But, for me at least, the worst feature inside (primarily due to my large physical-size. The side-bolsters on the front-seats were obviously not designed for anyone even near my size (6' 2" and 280 lb.). They were so sharp and narrow (and non-adjustable for width) that they pressed into by back uncomfortably, even when just sitting still there on the floor. For me, that would be a deal-breaker....I couldn't drive this car comfortably.
BTW, because of the Scion version (a Toyota division) that is is coming to the U.S. market, the Toyota reps at the show said that they would not offer the Toyota-badged version here.
BTW, because of the Scion version (a Toyota division) that is is coming to the U.S. market, the Toyota reps at the show said that they would not offer the Toyota-badged version here.
02-02-12, 12:33 AM
#2028
Lexus Connoisseur
Toyota and Subaru degraded the engine, so the owner can get more hp with just a few bolt ons and flash. I also think they even underrated the power. It loses only 15% power from crank to the wheels. It has 170whp for christ's sake.
My complain is, you're calling it a sport compact coupe, since it's obviously not. I don't really bother if you call Renault Megane RS Trophy a compact coupe/hatch back even it's the fastest production FWD car. Toyota also made sure the back seat can fit 4 tires and track gear.
My complain is, you're calling it a sport compact coupe, since it's obviously not. I don't really bother if you call Renault Megane RS Trophy a compact coupe/hatch back even it's the fastest production FWD car. Toyota also made sure the back seat can fit 4 tires and track gear.
86/FRS/BRZ was a well thought out back to basics sports car. Great chassis dynamics, low center of gravity, lightweight and great HP (100hp/liter) and lots of great details which make it a very appealing car to a wide range. S2K is not a practical sports car by any means (especially with that annoying hump in the floor). But if you look at just the basics, the 86/FRS/BRZ is.
S2K is in a different class. Mazda MX5 Miata is the best car to compare it with. 2 seat rear wheel drive and its a convertible. It may have all the rigidity in the world, but it will never have the chassis rigidity of a true hard top. Oh and you have to bury the tach way high into the 8k range to get any kind power.
Last edited by flipside909; 02-02-12 at 12:37 AM.
02-02-12, 12:40 AM
#2029
Lexus Connoisseur
Toyota 86 Model Grades & Colors
The 4 different 86 grades:
GT Limited:
GT:
G:
RC:
Grade Comparison Chart: http://toyota.jp/86/001_p_001/spec/e...oto/index.html
86 Colors:
Satin White Pearl <37J>
Sterling Silver <D6S>
Dark Gray Metallic <61K>
Crystal Black Silica <D4S>
Red Lightning <C7P>
Metallic Orange <H8R>
Galaxy Blue silica <E8H>
GT Limited:
GT:
G:
RC:
Grade Comparison Chart: http://toyota.jp/86/001_p_001/spec/e...oto/index.html
86 Colors:
Satin White Pearl <37J>
Sterling Silver <D6S>
Dark Gray Metallic <61K>
Crystal Black Silica <D4S>
Red Lightning <C7P>
Metallic Orange <H8R>
Galaxy Blue silica <E8H>
Last edited by flipside909; 02-02-12 at 01:27 AM.
02-02-12, 01:03 AM
#2030
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Confirmed from Toyota jp website. Stripped model is close to 2600lb and GT manual is a tad more than 2700lb.
I just wait to see what STI and TRD will offer before put down deposit. I favor Subaru model more because I can haggle down a bit more. With Scion pure pricing, I can't.
I just wait to see what STI and TRD will offer before put down deposit. I favor Subaru model more because I can haggle down a bit more. With Scion pure pricing, I can't.
02-02-12, 01:08 AM
#2031
Lexus Connoisseur
Morizo taking the 86 on the dirt and snow! Now what other auto manufacturer President and CEO does this? Only Akio Toyoda!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peR0TDsamY8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peR0TDsamY8
02-02-12, 02:54 AM
#2032
While I agree that a full hardtop would have been stiffer, the S2000 in its convertible form has a torsional rigidity that's ridiculous, beyond many sports coupe out there. We're talking levels that are Ferrari and Lamborghini stiff. You know it's stiff enough when the cowl doesn't shake over bumps like most other cars.
02-02-12, 05:20 AM
#2034
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Nick Gibbs of Automotive News Europe reveals these bits of info for the Euro-spec Toyota GT 86:
http://europe.autonews.com/apps/pbcs...302029951/1291
Toyota's new GT 86 sports car will cost 10,000 euros more in Europe than in Japan.
The rear-wheel-drive 86 will start from 1.99 million yen ($26,140; 19,900 euros) when it goes on sale in Japan on April 6, Toyota said on Thursday.
In Europe the car's starting price will be "around 30,000 euros" when it arrives in showrooms early summer, according to a Toyota Europe spokesman.
"In Japan they will be launching with a low-spec version as an entry point. We're launching with a relatively high-grade model with 17-inch wheels and a high range of equipment," the spokesman told Automotive News Europe.
In Europe, Toyota expects to sell 15,000 units a year of the GT 86. In Japan the company forecasts sales of 1,000 a month.
It accelerates from 0 to 100 kilometers (63 miles) per hour in six seconds, with a top speed of 230 kilometers an hour (143 mph), according to the company.
The rear-wheel-drive 86 will start from 1.99 million yen ($26,140; 19,900 euros) when it goes on sale in Japan on April 6, Toyota said on Thursday.
In Europe the car's starting price will be "around 30,000 euros" when it arrives in showrooms early summer, according to a Toyota Europe spokesman.
"In Japan they will be launching with a low-spec version as an entry point. We're launching with a relatively high-grade model with 17-inch wheels and a high range of equipment," the spokesman told Automotive News Europe.
In Europe, Toyota expects to sell 15,000 units a year of the GT 86. In Japan the company forecasts sales of 1,000 a month.
It accelerates from 0 to 100 kilometers (63 miles) per hour in six seconds, with a top speed of 230 kilometers an hour (143 mph), according to the company.
02-02-12, 06:25 AM
#2035
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More tidbits:
The Scion FR-S should be "comparable" (roughly equivalent) to the JDM 86 GT trim level, according to Chief Engineer Tetsuya Tada.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...n/#more-429160
I'd say the same for the "base" Subaru BRZ Premium trim level, with BRZ Limited roughly equalling the GT Limited.
And here are the curb weights for the different JDM Toyota 86 models:
RC Manual: 2601 lbs (1180 kg)
G Manual: 2662 lbs (1210 kg)
G Automatic: 2706 lbs (1230 kg)
GT Manual: 2706 lbs (1230 kg)
GT Automatic: 2750 lbs (1250 kg)
GT Limited Manual: 2706 lbs (1230 kg)
GT Limited Automatic: 2750 lbs (1250 kg)
The Scion FR-S should be "comparable" (roughly equivalent) to the JDM 86 GT trim level, according to Chief Engineer Tetsuya Tada.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...n/#more-429160
I'd say the same for the "base" Subaru BRZ Premium trim level, with BRZ Limited roughly equalling the GT Limited.
And here are the curb weights for the different JDM Toyota 86 models:
RC Manual: 2601 lbs (1180 kg)
G Manual: 2662 lbs (1210 kg)
G Automatic: 2706 lbs (1230 kg)
GT Manual: 2706 lbs (1230 kg)
GT Automatic: 2750 lbs (1250 kg)
GT Limited Manual: 2706 lbs (1230 kg)
GT Limited Automatic: 2750 lbs (1250 kg)
02-02-12, 07:50 AM
#2036
More tidbits:
The Scion FR-S should be "comparable" (roughly equivalent) to the JDM 86 GT trim level, according to Chief Engineer Tetsuya Tada.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...n/#more-429160
I'd say the same for the "base" Subaru BRZ Premium trim level, with BRZ Limited roughly equalling the GT Limited.
And here are the curb weights for the different JDM Toyota 86 models:
RC Manual: 2601 lbs (1180 kg)
G Manual: 2662 lbs (1210 kg)
G Automatic: 2706 lbs (1230 kg)
GT Manual: 2706 lbs (1230 kg)
GT Automatic: 2750 lbs (1250 kg)
GT Limited Manual: 2706 lbs (1230 kg)
GT Limited Automatic: 2750 lbs (1250 kg)
The Scion FR-S should be "comparable" (roughly equivalent) to the JDM 86 GT trim level, according to Chief Engineer Tetsuya Tada.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...n/#more-429160
I'd say the same for the "base" Subaru BRZ Premium trim level, with BRZ Limited roughly equalling the GT Limited.
And here are the curb weights for the different JDM Toyota 86 models:
RC Manual: 2601 lbs (1180 kg)
G Manual: 2662 lbs (1210 kg)
G Automatic: 2706 lbs (1230 kg)
GT Manual: 2706 lbs (1230 kg)
GT Automatic: 2750 lbs (1250 kg)
GT Limited Manual: 2706 lbs (1230 kg)
GT Limited Automatic: 2750 lbs (1250 kg)
02-02-12, 09:15 AM
#2037
Lexus Connoisseur
While I agree that a full hardtop would have been stiffer, the S2000 in its convertible form has a torsional rigidity that's ridiculous, beyond many sports coupe out there. We're talking levels that are Ferrari and Lamborghini stiff. You know it's stiff enough when the cowl doesn't shake over bumps like most other cars.
02-02-12, 10:09 AM
#2038
Lexus Fanatic
I've driven and reviewed a Genesis Coupe (3.8 track model). I agree that, in many areas, they are not in the same class. But one BIG difference is that the Genesis Coupe's seats can handle a guy my size, and the BRZ's seats can't.
02-02-12, 05:05 PM
#2039
Not really. It doesnt generate any cowl shake because its that stiff. The number thats floating around right now is 22,000 Nm/degree. Thats about the same as many Porsche 911 hardtop variants. I know coupes are generally stiffer than their convertible counterparts, but this car easily rivals that of a hardtop coupe.
02-02-12, 05:28 PM
#2040
Lexus Connoisseur
Not really. It doesnt generate any cowl shake because its that stiff. The number thats floating around right now is 22,000 Nm/degree. Thats about the same as many Porsche 911 hardtop variants. I know coupes are generally stiffer than their convertible counterparts, but this car easily rivals that of a hardtop coupe.