MR_F1

Since you are worrying about my orthography, maybe you should pick up some reading and comprehension skills, because I (uppercase ) did state that the RX7 (FD) and M3 (E46) turn (handle) better.

The 3rd gen MRS didn't sell because toyota didn't have the 'cajones' to put the higher powered 2ZZ engine in the car....It is underpowered (you should see what this car can do with a 2ZZ swap). It is also very small and being mid-engined it doesnt have much storage space, making it impracical for a $25k and up car. It is also rather ugly in stock form, and last I (in uppercase ) checked, the Miata/MX-5 is the defacto standard for a hairdresser's convertible... don't think you see many of these being performance minded.

on topic - I personally wouldn't want a manual tranny M5. I'd be happy with the SMG. The magazine griped, BMW gave them what they wanted, now the gripe more.... kinda wonder if the case of manual IS is warranted (though I would want a manual IS coupe)

doug_999

Well they wanted a manual, but with electronic nannys that can be disabled.

LexFather

I give kudos to C&D for sticking to its guns and not automatically awarding BMW the top spot. It really was a 2 way race here. It does give them more validity in my book, when they say other cars (Lexus for example) are not as sporty b/c of electronics.

I still would take ANY of the 3.

Foxberry

Agreed. I almost fell off my chair (actually toilet seat) when I turned the page and saw the M5 in 3rd place!

JZA80MHU38

Don't worry about my reading and comprehension skill. I did pretty good on my SAT and GMAT. It's because you brought up the "active suspension" of the early 90s Soarer (TEMS in Toyota's term) so I just want to let you know some extra facts. Even with TEMS, still the Supra's handling didn't get much better.

The Elise is about the same size as the 3rd gen MR2. It's using the 2ZZ engine. If all Toyota has to do to make the MR2 a better seller is to put the 2ZZ engine in it, why don't they do it? Oh, and the 2ZZ is not really that much of a "high power" engine. Before 6500 or even 7K rpm it has little torque. Why do I know? Look at my sig.

About your "don't think you see many of these being performance minded". I have not seen that many 3rd gen MR2 on the track event. Wait, may be I have seen none. But I do see a lot MX5s.

Going back to the Active Suspension part. Most mid-size "sports sedan" are just getting heavier and heavier with the safety features and non-driving related equipments. Old school shock-and-spring suspension probably just can't be tuned to deliver the level of performance with a good compromise of comfort any more.

mavericck

The S6 really is't meant to compete against the M5 or the E63, but it does a decent job of it (look at its placement). The real competition for the M5 and E63 will come from the RS6 like it has been in the past. Only this time the RS6 will dominate both the M5 and the E63.

MR_F1

-The active suspension found on the soarer, is NOT TEMS.
-The 2ZZ we get makes 190hp (and there are TRD versions with 230hp)... the one in the XRS gets 170hp I believe.
-I did well on my SAT too. Willing to bet that I beat you.

Anyway, lets get this thing over with. Where I live we dont get many USDM cars. Maybe thats why my perspective is different than yours. The toyota I know (or knew) is (or was) a very different beast than what you guys are accustomed too. So lets just leave it at that.

Kaban

Please don't get "active suspension" or "air bags" and what ever they calls it confused with MB's airmatic suspension. Just because someone come out with an "active suspension" doesn't mean they have any experiences with it. Those cars equiped with it wheatear OEM or aftermarket are just water beds on wheels, there are really nothing active about it except for sea sickness.

The air suspension on MBs are the techno marvells in the suspension world, it gives a big heavy car the capability to handle like a sports car and yet be comfortable (relatively) with a push of a button.

MR_F1

The UZZ32 came out in 1991...They havent learned anything since then?



Here is a Link, do some constuctive reading.

Driver's opinion of the system and differences between the UZZ30/31/32 (optional TEMS/airbag/active suspension models) can be found here.

now back to the topic at hand........

doug_999

Hmmm, I think the S6 does a fine job competing against those two (and a car I would consider if deciding between the three)- however maybe you are correct as the RS6 will be more in their price range and have the HP/Torque to back it up.

JZA80MHU38

Audi makes great cars, but I always wonder why they have such a different product line-up strategy in the US. Either their lowest model (A4 1.8T/2.0T, A3 2.0T) or the highest model (RS and S models) are getting way more praises than their middle models (those with the 3.2V6 engines). Plus, you really have to be a die-hard Audi fans to pay that kind of money for an RS4 or RS6, when the BMW M and Mercedes AMG models are more recognized and probably cheaper or better valued down the road.

mavericck

Their product line-up focuses on building performance cars right below and above the BMW M and MB AMG product line in the past this is what they have done, at least HP wise. Now they have extremely good chassis's to go along with that power and I see the next RS6 absolutely dominating the class (If you want to keep it in that same class as the M5 and E63, but it was really meant to be a step above them). The S6 was meant to sort of bridge the gap between someone wanting the luxury and AWD utility of an A6 with 8 or 9/10th's the performance of an M5. Why do you have to be a die-hard Audi fan to realize what great cars the RS4 and RS6 are? You do have to realize that around the world (outside of the US) Audi is recognized as the equal if not superior to BMW and MB. Granted the RS6 might cost more than the M5 or E63 but the whole package, (technology, safety, luxury, reliability, and performance) will be on a whole new level when compared to the M5 and E63. I am also guessing that the RS4 will get some significant improvements when the new M3 comes out. Audi always comes out with the high-performance sedans last to make sure they stomp the competition.

Mr. Jones

this same mag placed the LS460 last place, and this month placed the Camry behind a Kia. Then raved on at how perfect the Accord is.

JZA80MHU38

Only in Europe do people recognize Audi as the equal to BMW and MB. Your last sentence can be applied to BMW and MB as well. That's how customers get better products from time to time.

LexFather

I've had many discussions with some good people.C&D has lost its way