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In Japan, a Lexus just doesn't have that cachet (merged thread)

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Old 11-17-06, 10:47 PM   #31
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Well, is there a passionate soul in lets say E350? Or 525? Jaguar X type maybe?
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Old 11-18-06, 12:03 AM   #32
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Well, is there a passionate soul in lets say E350? Or 525? Jaguar X type maybe?
550i, 650ci, 335i, E63, S63, SL63, M5, M6, M3 etc etc; Just to name a few.

In Lexus line up, GS430 and IS350 are as sporty as you can get. And I am bored with my IS350 now. I was even excited to drive my Acura Integra when I had one. I just dont feel the same thing when I am driving my IS350. Dont get me wrong, it's a great car for a lot of people. Just not for me and not looking forward to buy another Toyota for their sportiness.
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Old 11-18-06, 12:23 AM   #33
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Nobody could be successful everywhere in every category. And Toyota can't and shouldn't as well. You just can't expect an auto company to do well everywhere in the world in every single class of vehicle. As long as Toyota could earn so much profit and afford so many people who work for it, good enough. Just let M-B and BMW to dominate the upper level of automobiles. You don't see them trying to conquer the entry-level class of vehicle such as Corolla's or Camry's. If Europeans don't appreciate Lexus vehicles, great, let Americans and Asians and others to enjoy them. Audi isn't doing so well in the U.S. also, so what? They are doing very well in Europe. Peogeut isn't even available in the U.S. now, who cares? Enough people buying this French maker's products elsewhere. I am glad that Lexus isn't doing well in Europe, otherwise, Toyota would be too big and too successful and therefore too difficult for other companies to survive in the long-term period. As good as Toyota/Lexus products are, I don't want to see them whereever I go to, even the other countries.
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Old 11-18-06, 07:51 AM   #34
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Lexus is 4th? out of 3?


I am not going to lie. Lexus makes awesome cars and I have been in love with Toyota ever since. If you really look around, there is no other manufacturers offer value, quality and service like Lexus does. They make top notch products.

But I really don't consider Lexus as a prestigious brand or sporty cars. It's rather dull and boring some form of transportation that would take you from point A to B.

If they want a big name like MB, they need to bring out more. Where's S65 fighter? Where is SL63 competitor? How are they going to compete with M5? The brand as a whole lacks the passion and it's hard to be in love the car that you cant find the passionate soul in it.
Lexus just can't bring out a car to compete with them until the market will buy it, or it will just be Q45 and Phaeton, sitting at dealer lots collecting dust
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Old 11-18-06, 08:13 AM   #35
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Lexus just can't bring out a car to compete with them until the market will buy it, or it will just be Q45 and Phaeton, sitting at dealer lots collecting dust
What about IS350 with manual tranny? they can start from there? or IS high performance variance? I am sure a lot of people are going to buy it. Hell, Audi can even sell their S4 with no problems. Why not Lexus?

S65 arent in very high demand either, and M5 isnt a high volume car. But that's the difference btw MB, BMW and Lexus. Toyota is very much of a profit oriented company and they don't even bring back the Supra which consumers have been asking since it was discontinued in 1998 or something like that. They are just too busy selling camry and other boring cars.
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Old 11-18-06, 11:37 AM   #36
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What about IS350 with manual tranny? they can start from there? or IS high performance variance? I am sure a lot of people are going to buy it. Hell, Audi can even sell their S4 with no problems. Why not Lexus?

S65 arent in very high demand either, and M5 isnt a high volume car. But that's the difference btw MB, BMW and Lexus. Toyota is very much of a profit oriented company and they don't even bring back the Supra which consumers have been asking since it was discontinued in 1998 or something like that. They are just too busy selling camry and other boring cars.
A performance IS to compete with the M and RS is coming, it takes times

Whatever the LF-A becomes is what Lexus will use to test the waters of how the consumers will accept Lexus as performance brand

It's not Toyota's fault that when they make cars that enthusiast want, but they don't buy it, and then Toyota decides not to make them anymore, they become boring
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Old 11-18-06, 12:17 PM   #37
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A performance IS to compete with the M and RS is coming, it takes times

Whatever the LF-A becomes is what Lexus will use to test the waters of how the consumers will accept Lexus as performance brand

It's not Toyota's fault that when they make cars that enthusiast want, but they don't buy it, and then Toyota decides not to make them anymore, they become boring
I will believe it when I see IS-F or LF-A or whatever.

When did enthusiasts stop buying Supra? Never. I would buy one in a heart beat if I can buy one today.
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Old 11-18-06, 12:56 PM   #38
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It may take some time for Lexus to succeed in Japan and in
Europe, but the new LS460 is definitely a step in the right
direction. I am not at all surprised that Lexus has not fared
well thus far. They launched the brand without a flagship.
Without a true flagship you will never be viewed as a true
luxury brand.
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Old 11-18-06, 06:02 PM   #39
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I will believe it when I see IS-F or LF-A or whatever.

When did enthusiasts stop buying Supra? Never. I would buy one in a heart beat if I can buy one today.
The Supra died in 98 in the US because of low sales, although it was cheaper than it was in like 95, the Supra today is way more well known for its performance capabilities than it was back when Toyota made it

And I was talking more about the Celica and MR2, those where the last two, as the Celica competed very well with the RSX, and the MR2 competed very well with the Miata, yet they didn't get the sales needed to continue production
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Old 11-18-06, 06:44 PM   #40
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And I was talking more about the Celica and MR2, those where the last two, as the Celica competed very well with the RSX, and the MR2 competed very well with the Miata, yet they didn't get the sales needed to continue production

Celica can't compete very well with RSX. RSX blows alway celica in every possible way. The new MR2 is a joke compare to the old MR2.

The truth is that Toyota needs to make a real sports car.

My point is toyota is capable of making a great sport car but they are just too much of a profit oriented company and resist to make a real sports car. Even Acura made NSX for quite a while even with very sluggish sales.
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Old 11-18-06, 06:54 PM   #41
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Celica can't compete very well with RSX. RSX blows alway celica in every possible way. The new MR2 is a joke compare to the old MR2.

The truth is that Toyota needs to make a real sports car.

My point is toyota is capable of making a great sport car but they are just too much of a profit oriented company and resist to make a real sports car. Even Acura made NSX for quite a while even with very sluggish sales.
The Celica competed very well with the RSX, if you don't believe that look at clubrsx, for acceleration its a drivers race and the Celica out handled the RSX

The MRS was everything the original MR2 was, light and fun to drive, the only thing the US MRS didn't get was the turbo modle that Japan has, if we had that from the beginning no one would be complaining about power, even though the MRS out accelerated the Miata, and the Mazdaspeed Miata was just about even
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Old 11-18-06, 09:45 PM   #42
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Celica is vastly superior to the RSX. However it doesnt hold a candle to the old Integra GSR and Type R.
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Old 12-09-06, 10:29 AM   #43
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Default Japan likes Toyota not Lexus?

Interesting read.

http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbc...16/-1/archives
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Old 12-09-06, 10:36 AM   #44
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It's always cooler to have something foreign. I mean these days it's just not in style, so to speak, to have something high end that is made in America. It's kinda like no matter how great of a college is right nearby your home town, all of the local kids think it's a lame school and want to go to some far away school. Yes, part of that is an excuse to get as far away from home as possible, but the other part is they've just taken their local school for granted. The far away school has more mystery appeal and allure to those people as it's something new and 'unique' to them.

It's like that here in the US, too - I think it's funny to see how cool people consider my Audi A4 to be, yet in Germany it'd probably be considered a somewhat boring middle class car that any ol' Joe could afford because they cost less and are far more common.

Also, Lexus in japan just recently came to existence.. just a couple years ago all of those models were wearing Toyota badges, and people over there see it as a scam, almost - kinda like people here say Lexus is just a rebadged Toyota, except in Japan they just very recently literally saw all of the higher end Toyota cars get Lexus badges - right down to the LS430.
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Old 12-09-06, 10:40 AM   #45
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It's always cooler to have something foreign. I mean these days it's just not in style, so to speak, to have something high end that is made in America. It's kinda like no matter how great of a college is right nearby your home town, all of the local kids think it's a lame school and want to go to some far away school. Yes, part of that is an excuse to get as far away from home as possible, but the other part is they've just taken their local school for granted. The far away school has more mystery appeal and allure to those people as it's something new and 'unique' to them.

It's like that here in the US, too - I think it's funny to see how cool people consider my Audi A4 to be, yet in Germany it'd probably be considered a somewhat boring middle class car that any ol' Joe could afford because they cost less and are far more common.
Good point. I suspect since Audi/VW are in bed together like Toyota Lexus, Audi's in Japan would be a hard sell as well.

I remember when I was in Australia back in the mid 90's. There were all kinds of Nissan's on the road that we call Infiniti here. I guess it is all marketing. Throw in leather and change the name and charge a lot more. Some countries buy it and some don't.
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Old 12-09-06, 10:40 AM
 
 
 
 
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