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Is Toyota's Quality Slipping?

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Old 10-28-06, 09:23 AM
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mavericck
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Default Is Toyota's Quality Slipping?

Surveys, Consumer Complaints Suggest It May Be

Is Toyota's quality slipping? The company lost ground in an annual vehicle value survey. While many consumers still give the Japanese automaker high marks, some analysts are suggesting the auto giant is growing too fast in its pursuit of General Motors.

San Diego-based Strategic Vision surveyed more than 64,000 people who purchased new vehicles from October 2005 to March 2006. Consumers were surveyed after 90 days of ownership and asked if they thought they got their money�s worth.

Toyota, which had seven segment winners in 2005, took only three categories in the new study and has been moving slower than other brands when it comes to innovation, according to an auto industry analyst.

As Toyota executives struggle with their corporate image, Jennifer in Bardstown Kentucky is struggling with the foul smell pouring out of her new Toyota.

"We purchased a 2006 Toyota Avalon, we noticed when we drove it that there was a rotten egg smell to it when you accelerated or went up hills," she wrote ConsumerAffairs.Com.

"This was first dismissed by the dealership as a new car smell. However about 3 weeks later we could not start the car on the first try. This does not occur all the time but does occur at least once a week. It will also cause the motor to shake violently before it starts. Every time I have taken it in to the dealership I have been told it cannot be fixed because they cannot duplicate the problem." Jennifer said.

So Jennifer and her husband took matters in their on hands in a effort to fight back, much to the dismay and anger of their Toyota dealer.

"We went in there today to get some rattling corrected in the window and had (written) on the back window about the car being a lemon. This upset them and the service manager told us to remove it or he would call the police."

During the period of the Strategic Vision value survey, Toyota car and truck buyers complained to ConsumerAffairs.Com of oil leaks, poor workmanship,design, strange odors and gasoline mileage as the automaker dealt with a surge in recalls attributed to cost-cutting efforts that use the same parts on more models.

Calisandria in San Leandro told us, "I was sold a car that has an oil leak which the service department cannot find."

"I bought this car, and by the time I got home smoke was coming out from under the hood. I parked the car where there are no oil spots on the ground. The next morning I go to check to see if there are any oil spots. There are about 4 spots on the ground," she wrote.

The recent surge in recalls at Toyota peaked in July when the automaker recalled about 400,000 SUVs in the U.S., its single biggest market. The spate of recalls has led some analysts to suggest a decline may well be under way at Toyota.

"Toyota has become the recall king, something the company never had to wrestle with in the past as it won most of the JD Powers and other car quality surveys," wrote Wall Street analyst Douglas A. McIntyre. But, as the company's market share has ballooned in the U.S., Toyota had to ramp up production for North America and quality seems to have suffered," he wrote.

Other industry analysts warn that Toyota may be becoming complacent as the company attempts to overtake General Motors as the world's largest car company. They cite the Strategic Vision survey as new evidence that growth may be undermining quality at Toyota.

Perception Is Reality
A ConsumerAffairs.Com reader in Portland, Oregon, agrees with that assessment of the Japanese automaker.

"Perception is reality in auto industry and with such perception I bought Camry but the reality is it is a lemon." she wrote.

From Sacramento, Donna complained about the fit and finish of her new Toyota. "My 2006 Corolla has irregular paint drips along an inch strip between 5 and 7 inches up on car doors. I asked a record be made of the paint irregularities in case this leads to any early paint deterioration."

"I had noted other cars (at the dealership) had varying degrees of the drip strip immediately below the dip in the door. I received the ridiculous explanation from the service manager that this was 'orange peel & they can't help that the customer doesn't like where the manufacturer put it.'"

Art in Florida is fed up with his 2006 Toyota Tundra truck.

"I have never paid so much for a truck and got so little. From the 20-inch tires to the seats that have been lowered so nothing can be stored under them. I hate this truck."

Finally, Deborah in Louisville is finding her new Prius to be a big-time disappointment.

"I feel there was false advertising by Toyota in stating there was 50 miles per gallon on the highway and 60 miles per hour in the city driving my Toyota Prius hybrid. They jacked up the price $8,000 from sticker stating it was a car hard to come buy and that was their price and I would actually save money on gas."

Not so, says Deborah.

"After six months of tracking, the best mileage I ever got was 43 miles per gallon. Most often my mileage is between 30-36 miles per gallon which is no better than cars I have had in the past."
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...a_quality.html
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Old 10-28-06, 03:12 PM
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sorry unless toyota recalls multi-millions of vehicles they wont be recall king, mercedes did a 2-3 million recall a while back, domestic has done too many to count. The examples given were laughable
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Old 10-28-06, 03:46 PM
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I know that this is not something that a lot of you Lexus guys want to hear, but while the new GS is indeed a superb machine ( one of my 10 Best, along with the new Acura RL ), after reviews, I found both the new IS, and, especially, the new ES, dissappointing in overall build quality compared to their predecessors. Both, IMO, had lower-quality interiors overall with less-solid-feeling parts, even though those parts had a lot of glitz and flash on them to try and make them look expensive. There is also far less wood paneling in the new ES than the old one, and it had noticeable dash creaks and squeaks.

A good example on the IS....the old one had a solid and precise-feeling shifter made out of real metal with a REAL polished-chrome ball....and it snapped in and out of gear with a precise. Swiss-Watch feel. The new IS has, instead, a plastic-handled shifter with some artificial glitz on it that feels, in comparison to the old shifter, like something out of a dime store.

Last edited by mmarshall; 10-28-06 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 10-28-06, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 4TehNguyen
sorry unless toyota recalls multi-millions of vehicles they wont be recall king, mercedes did a 2-3 million recall a while back, domestic has done too many to count. The examples given were laughable
The question isn't whether Toyota is the new recall king or not, but whether the quality is slipping. To which the answer would be a resounding yes.

Last edited by rosskoss; 10-28-06 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 10-28-06, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
I know that this is not something that a lot of you Lexus guys want to hear, but while the new GS is indeed a superb machine ( one of my 10 Best, along with the new Acura RL ), after reviews, I found both the new IS, and, especially, the new ES, dissappointing in overall build quality compared to their predecessors. Both, IMO, had lower-quality interiors overall with less-solid-feeling parts, even though those parts had a lot of glitz and flash on them to try and make them look expensive. There is also far less wood paneling in the new ES than the old one, and it had noticeable dash creaks and squeaks.

My experience has been almost exactly the same. Better looking cars and interiors, but not necessarily better quality stuff.

I think Toyota is slowly shifting away from producing simple cars that were put together in a very precise and exacting manner resulting in rock solid cars and they're now trying to compete with sophisticated, fasionable vehicles, all while trying very hard to become a bigger company. That's a faulty growth path to me. Growth should be an outcome/byproduct of increasing demand for high quality cars and not the result of an active pursuit to beat the world's largest automaker in size. Being #1 in profitability is the most important thing. GM is #1 in volume, what's the point? Toyota should concentrate on the fundamentals that brought them this far.
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Old 10-28-06, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
A good example on the IS....the old one had a solid and precise-feeling shifter made out of real metal with a REAL polished-chrome ball....and it snapped in and out of gear with a precise. Swiss-Watch feel. The new IS has, instead, a plastic-handled shifter with some artificial glitz on it that feels, in comparison to the old shifter, like something out of a dime store.


Agreed, I too was a bit disappointed by the plastics in the IS... i mean, its not a total dealbreaker for me (the lack of a manual is however).
I've been leaning towards the new G35 as of late... Looked at one at the local dealership, and although I could only look through the glass, the alum/paper trim looks better than the painted plastics in the IS.
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Old 10-28-06, 04:39 PM
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Thanks, shyguy...you posted a nice picture there of what I was illustrating ( My computer skills posting and scanning pictures are next to zero ). I notice that this car does not have the wood-tone that some of the new ones do.
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Old 10-28-06, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by genearch
The problem is that they set the bar pretty high.. anything but that is a failure (slippage)

No win situation really...
I don't know that I would call it that. Their quality control has been slipping, and Toyota itself admits it. We looked at a new Avalon before buying the ES330, and couldn't believe how poor the fit and finish was. And how flimsy the interior plastics were. If not for the strong-ish drivetrain and loads of interior space, I would've left the dealership laughing.

[personal opinion]
On the other subject of visual appearance, I've always thought that Toyota/lexus interiors were a mixture of nice, and cheap. Since day one. Some parts look like high quality plastics with good texture and firmness, while some (like the un-textured, painted faceplates) look horribly cheap. The stereo and HVAC displays look even worse, like dime store specials. The IS' displays are dim and blurry, which makes no sense at all.
[/personal opinion]

Regarding the rotten egg exhaust smell, when on earth is Toyota going to do something about it? The first I noticed it, we bought a 2003 4Runner, and it would asphyxiate the passengers every time you'd hit the gas. Of course, dealers would do nothing about it. Now when I look through all the Toyota/Lexus service bulletins, there are a bunch of tickets for various models with the exact same problem.

Last edited by ff_; 10-28-06 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 10-28-06, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by shyguy16
Agreed, I too was a bit disappointed by the plastics in the IS...
Yuck yuck. Too much plastic.

The Avalon's build quality is junk and I am not at all impressed by
the stuff coming out of Kentucky.
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Old 10-28-06, 06:11 PM
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I gave warnings a couple years ago this would happen.
Car makers are the most imitative of any industry.
They copy what works for another manufacturer.
I felt that watching MB continue to sell tons of cars
with inferior reliabilty/quality would be to tempting to
not copy. Why spend millions to go the extra mile when
it isn't necessary. Benz does still sell a lot of cars. I
don't know why, I think they're stupid...the repeat buyers
that is. I know this, I don't care about the rest of you,
if Lexus continues this downward trend in quality, I'm
outta here.
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Old 10-28-06, 07:24 PM
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Good grief, I hope it's not the fact that some of the Toyota's today are no longer purely made in Japan, but in the USA .
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Old 10-28-06, 09:25 PM
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My uncle had a rental 05' 4runner and that thing felt plasticy and cheap. I didn't like how it felt and there were very slight creaks and rattles. On the other hand, my other uncle's 94' 4runner felt very high quality and just as durable, if not better.

I'm not too fond of toyota moving onto more plastic parts, but it's part of cost-savings and almost every manufactors are doing that (even Honda/Acura and Nissan/Infiniti)
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Old 10-28-06, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
Thanks, shyguy...you posted a nice picture there of what I was illustrating ( My computer skills posting and scanning pictures are next to zero ). I notice that this car does not have the wood-tone that some of the new ones do.
No problem I actually grabbed this p[icture from the G35 forums.
To my recollection however, the IS I sat in the dealership had nav and looked better than in this pic. I only had very brief seat time but I don't remember it being this bad.
I mean... just looking at the pic, the center console looks like very cheaply painted plasitc and the radio buttons look flimsy and seem like their about to fall off if you don't press it dead center.
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Old 10-28-06, 11:42 PM
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Every time 5 people surveyed out of 5000 complain we get a thread like this.

Let's get something straight right off the bat. Toyota is not pursuing GM. People on the other side of the fence say that because they see Toyota crushing Gm from behind. Anyone who knows anything about Toyota knows they actually raised prices to avoid a takeover of the market fearing the backlash.

Speaking of fearing the backlash, did I mention people are so scared of Toyota becoming number one that when 5 people out of 5000 complain they publish an article about it?

Wood grain makes things nice, but doesn't dictate quality. Plastic in GM cars crack down the middle in two summers or less. Toyota takes years and years to see heat damage.
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Old 10-28-06, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by rosskoss
The question isn't whether Toyota is the new recall king or not, but whether the quality is slipping. To which the answer would be a resounding yes.




I must have also (along with other members) misjudged the fact that the OP highlighted, bold, increased the font size, and underlined

Toyota has become the recall king,.

I see that was not a major point in the OP, per your observations.

Everyone please take note.
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