Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.

Volkswagen ESP Plus Steering Impulse

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 10-25-06, 01:30 PM
  #1  
mavericck
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
 
mavericck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 1,230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Volkswagen ESP Plus Steering Impulse



Safe through autumn and winter
ESP plus steering impulse intervenes when it gets slippery
Steering impulse shortens stopping distance by up to 10 percent
Introduction of electromechanical power steering makes steering impulse possible for the first time
Golf, Golf Plus, Jetta, Eos, Touran and Passat have ESP plus steering impulse as standard
Just a little “tug” on the steering wheel, “carried out” by the electromechanical power steering, “commanded” by the electronic stabilisation program. But it’s all that is needed for the driver to do the right thing intuitively: countersteer. In very specific situations; during emergency braking on roads with different friction coefficients (for example damp leaves or snow on the right and dry on the left). Countersteering contributes towards shortening the stopping distance in such cases by up to ten percent. But to do this, the car “needs” steering that can be actuated electronically. And this is installed in the Volkswagen Golf, Golf Plus, Jetta, Eos, Touran, Passat and Passat estate as standard – in the same way as the ESP plus steering impulse. Best to be safe.

ESP plus steering impulse in practice: Surroundings as previously described, autumn or winter, one half of the road surface is dry, the other is frequently covered with damp leaves or even snow. Until now, the scenario on the surface described with different friction coefficients (called "μ-split" in engineering terms) during emergency braking with ESP would end in an ideal case as follows: Thanks to ESP, the car will not skid out of control, the driver can keep it on course and avoid any possible obstacles. Since the braking effect has to be based on the wheel with the poorest friction coefficient in order to prevent the vehicle from breaking out, the wheels cannot be braked as sharply as they would actually permit on a dry surface. The reason for this: without countersteering in the correct direction, the vehicle would break out by overbraking of a wheel, as the unsymmetrical braking forces caused as a result would bring about a tendency of the vehicle to rotate in the direction of the road surface with greater traction. Sounds complicated and it really is. But just at this point is when ESP plus steering impulse intervenes.

ESP determines the right direction: The system "detects" the direction in which the driver has to countersteer to decelerate the vehicle optimally without it breaking out. This is why the unit gives the command to the electromechanical power steering to send a steering impulse in the required direction. This is perceived by the driver in the steering wheel, who then follows this signal intuitively and carries out the classic countersteer. As a result of this stabilising intervention, the brake pressure at the wheels can be increased with the greatest amount of grip. The consequence: a shortening of the stopping distance by the aforementioned 10 percent.

The driver keeps everything under control: The ESP plus steering impulse does not take on the job to actually steer the vehicle. The sovereignty with regards to handling the vehicle remains completely with the driver at all times. On the contrary, the system gives just a recommendation to steer, even if barely noticeable, with a torque of no more than three Newton metres. This is therefore as far as it ever goes: ESP thinks, the person steers – it’s just more effective.
http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm...eering-impulse
mavericck is offline  
Old 10-25-06, 10:10 PM
  #2  
jracerlmn
Lexus Champion
 
jracerlmn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 1,973
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

MB has had ESP for at least 8 years now...*YAWN*
jracerlmn is offline  
Old 10-25-06, 10:33 PM
  #3  
mavericck
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
 
mavericck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 1,230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by jracerlmn
MB has had ESP for at least 8 years now...*YAWN*

Apparently you didn't read the whole article and couldnt differentiate between the older gen ESP and the new on with steering impulse. This is only possible with electronic power steering. Read the whole article next time.
mavericck is offline  
Old 10-26-06, 01:54 AM
  #4  
DzaztrBUSE
Lexus Test Driver
 
DzaztrBUSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NV
Posts: 943
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

True.
Wake up back there jracerlmn!
DzaztrBUSE is offline  
Old 10-26-06, 06:10 AM
  #5  
MSMLexIS
Lexus Champion
 
MSMLexIS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,793
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Does VDIM do this or does it just assist with the steering during over and understeer.
MSMLexIS is offline  
Old 10-26-06, 11:36 AM
  #6  
spwolf
Lexus Champion
 
spwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 19,841
Received 110 Likes on 81 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by MSMLexIS
Does VDIM do this or does it just assist with the steering during over and understeer.
it does that and more :-).

Even new Rav4's new VSC system is more advanced, it hardens steering in "wrong" direction and eases "right" direction during loss of control, among other things (pretty similar to VDIM).

Also VDIM has more advanced sensors and vsc system that ultimatly reduces amount of time VDIM has to intervene.

New systems are a lot better done than before. My 2003 Corolla TS always beeped for whatever reason (ABS/VSC) and in my 2007 I never had VSC engage once, despite many fast drives in tight curves during the rain...
spwolf is offline  
Old 10-26-06, 01:08 PM
  #7  
MSMLexIS
Lexus Champion
 
MSMLexIS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,793
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

And if im not mistaken cant VDIM countersteer during oversteer.
MSMLexIS is offline  
Old 10-26-06, 01:36 PM
  #8  
jracerlmn
Lexus Champion
 
jracerlmn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 1,973
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by mavericck
Apparently you didn't read the whole article and couldnt differentiate between the older gen ESP and the new on with steering impulse. This is only possible with electronic power steering. Read the whole article next time.
MB's ESP doesn't move the steering wheel? i'm not sure but it's saved my *** a few times.
jracerlmn is offline  
Old 10-26-06, 02:36 PM
  #9  
Threxx
Lexus Champion
 
Threxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 3,474
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

My Audi's ESP has saved me from going off the road once.

It has intervened several other times - mostly me just playing around trying to make it intervene... but that one time I just mentioned, I'm 100% positive I would have gone off the side of the road on a sharp curve and done some pretty significant damage to the car (though I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been injured to badly).

My wife's 4Runner has VSC and so did my Lexus. They both acted pretty similarly in the ice storm we had in the Memphis area, winter before last... both being RWD, both VSC-equipped... but mine was a 99 lexus and hers was an 05 Toyota - but they still reacted pretty similarly all in all.

It was almost impossible to drive either of them on the road - heck on even a moderate declining hill doing 5mph I couldn't get the damn lexus to stop... it just slid down the hill picking up speed with the vsc going crazy because it couldn't make the tires grip on the ice. I felt pretty helpless though I found a flat dirt road I was able to pull off onto to bleed off the speed I'd picked up and then turn around.

Anyhow... in conditions like that tires matter by far the most, followed by the stability control system - so I just wonder how my Audi would have done in the same situation and how a VDIM-equipped GS430 would have done...
Threxx is offline  
Old 10-26-06, 02:44 PM
  #10  
MSMLexIS
Lexus Champion
 
MSMLexIS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,793
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

I think in your case it was the ABS that caused that problem ABS really doesnt work in the snow.
MSMLexIS is offline  
Old 10-26-06, 02:50 PM
  #11  
RX_330
Lexus Test Driver
 
RX_330's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,388
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by jracerlmn
MB's ESP doesn't move the steering wheel? i'm not sure but it's saved my *** a few times.
No. ESP just brakes the spinning wheels which makes it seem like it's moving the steering wheel.
RX_330 is offline  
Old 10-26-06, 03:40 PM
  #12  
Threxx
Lexus Champion
 
Threxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 3,474
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by MSMLexIS
I think in your case it was the ABS that caused that problem ABS really doesnt work in the snow.

Well it didn't really cause the problem - I doubt I would have been any better off without ABS... much worse, I'm sure.

I mean VSC, VDIM, and ESP and all the other names for the same basic concept in different formats is really just what you get when you take ABS and traction control and use them in an intelligent manner to keep the car pointed straight ahead and keep it from sliding or spinning. So yes it was primarily ABS but also VSC trying to keep me going straight (Which it did a pretty good job of).
Threxx is offline  
Old 10-26-06, 04:15 PM
  #13  
mavericck
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
 
mavericck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 1,230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by MSMLexIS
And if im not mistaken cant VDIM countersteer during oversteer.
I'm not sure about VDIM doing that but I do know that if you order BMW's "active steering" that the car will counter-steer for you in a drift.
mavericck is offline  
Old 10-27-06, 06:32 AM
  #14  
MSMLexIS
Lexus Champion
 
MSMLexIS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,793
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Found on the internset VDIM can counter steer for you but it wont say how much countersteer it will provide.
MSMLexIS is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
WILLIAMBLR
GS - 2nd Gen (1998-2005)
0
07-01-18 03:08 AM
gdave
LS - 1st and 2nd Gen (1990-2000)
1
05-24-10 08:06 PM
LEKSO
Maintenance
6
02-02-06 01:14 AM



Quick Reply: Volkswagen ESP Plus Steering Impulse



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:10 PM.