Edmunds Full Test: 2007 Lexus LS460 (still lacking spice??)
10-20-06, 07:30 PM
#31
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MB's acceleration figures were equivalent, yet edmunds didn't mention the Sclasses' 6.Xsec 0-60sec time was below MB estimates
MB's handling figures were equivalent, but edmunds didn't gripe about it. The air suspension equipped S550 may dance a little better, but stats aren't all that impressive. That didn't prevent edmunds or other journalists for that matter dsecribing the Sclass like it were a Cayman S.
EPA estimate the S550 gets
16/24 which is dismal compared to the LS460L's 18/27.
Notice how Benz delivered NightVision Assist equipped S550's to all American journalists, a feature they no longer offer in the US.
Keep in mind the LS460L gets air suspension
the Touring package comes with larger wheels, stronger brakes, and fatter tires.
The price difference b/w these two are huge, you can get far superior leather, higher quality wood veneer, better NAV/Audio (w/XM traffic), more features for a lower price. To get high quality leather (still inferior to semi-alanine), synthetic suede-like headliner, LS460 quaility paint, and highly polished wood in the S550 costs an additional $10k.
What's even more amazing is the LS460 costs less than a similiarily equipped E550, and still manages better fuel economy than the regual E350.
Last edited by Mr. Jones; 10-20-06 at 07:52 PM.
10-20-06, 10:19 PM
#33
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10-21-06, 05:13 AM
#34
:-).
What it shows is that speed is comparable and that LS460 gets a lot better mpg due to much higer tech engine...
10-21-06, 10:28 AM
#35
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Like I've mentioned in other threads about how stupid C&D writers are.... I guess the idiots will still be idiots! 
"Too much finesse?" and "needs to be more sporty?" --> what are you idiots?? It's a luxury car!!!!! Dumb*****.
"Too much finesse?" and "needs to be more sporty?" --> what are you idiots?? It's a luxury car!!!!! Dumb*****.
10-21-06, 10:42 AM
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It's very understandable why car magazines are so hard on Lexus. Lexus makes great practical, comfortable, luxurious, and reliable cars, but they do NOT make exciting cars.
I mean yes they have some more exciting cars than others in their lineup, but almost... heck, not almost, EVERY one of their models, when compared to the most directly competing models from Europe and sometimes American and Japan, ends up being unspiring and boring because it doesn't have enough feedback in terms of suspension response and taughtness, steering feel, noise from the engine and road, etc. These are CAR ENTHUSIAST MAGAZINES were are talking about - and while many of us here may be enthusiasts who are enthusiastic about ultra quality precision made luxury cars - the fact of life is that the overwhelming majority of car enthusiasts, including the people who write for the magazines, as well as those who READ the magazines, don't care as much about luxury, comfort, and practicality, as they do the pure sport and soul of driving.
With that said, Lexus is purposely aiming in a direction that they KNOW will **** off the typical enthusiast. But can you blame them? For every one sale they lose to an enthusiast, they get 2 more from somebody who doesn't read car magazines, doesn't dream about road racing, and just wants a comfortable reliable premium brand car to drive around.
They're doing what has made them the #1 selling brand in america... which is exactly the opposite of what car magazines rightfully tend to get excited about. What magazines will they excite with their cars? Consumer reports, consumer guide - all of the practical 'buyers guide' magazines that the average joe reads for practical purchasing advise.
Lexus may try to build some sportier models over the next decade or so to truely try to compete with the Euros, without giving up their luxury models. You might have noticed GM's Cadillac is getting much sportier with its newer model releases (just wait until you see the CTS a year from now.... it's incredible!), and at the same time the new Buick models that are about to be released are going WAY upscale and obviously aimed at Lexus. In fact their Lucerne and Lacrosse were aimed at Lexus but fell laughably short in my opinion. Their new Buick Enclave SUV truely looks amazingly nice, though, and may be the beginning of a new era for Buick, Cadillac, and GM as a whole.
As technology improves - such as semi-active and active dynamic suspension systems, you will start to see sporty cars like BMW be capable of being more comfortable whilst staying just as sporty... and you'll see lux cars like Lexus be capable of being more sporty, whilst staying comfortable. But for now the world is full of compromises... one car cannot be all things to all people. So for now let the sales numbers speak for which design model got the average consumer the most interested.
I mean yes they have some more exciting cars than others in their lineup, but almost... heck, not almost, EVERY one of their models, when compared to the most directly competing models from Europe and sometimes American and Japan, ends up being unspiring and boring because it doesn't have enough feedback in terms of suspension response and taughtness, steering feel, noise from the engine and road, etc. These are CAR ENTHUSIAST MAGAZINES were are talking about - and while many of us here may be enthusiasts who are enthusiastic about ultra quality precision made luxury cars - the fact of life is that the overwhelming majority of car enthusiasts, including the people who write for the magazines, as well as those who READ the magazines, don't care as much about luxury, comfort, and practicality, as they do the pure sport and soul of driving.
With that said, Lexus is purposely aiming in a direction that they KNOW will **** off the typical enthusiast. But can you blame them? For every one sale they lose to an enthusiast, they get 2 more from somebody who doesn't read car magazines, doesn't dream about road racing, and just wants a comfortable reliable premium brand car to drive around.
They're doing what has made them the #1 selling brand in america... which is exactly the opposite of what car magazines rightfully tend to get excited about. What magazines will they excite with their cars? Consumer reports, consumer guide - all of the practical 'buyers guide' magazines that the average joe reads for practical purchasing advise.
Lexus may try to build some sportier models over the next decade or so to truely try to compete with the Euros, without giving up their luxury models. You might have noticed GM's Cadillac is getting much sportier with its newer model releases (just wait until you see the CTS a year from now.... it's incredible!), and at the same time the new Buick models that are about to be released are going WAY upscale and obviously aimed at Lexus. In fact their Lucerne and Lacrosse were aimed at Lexus but fell laughably short in my opinion. Their new Buick Enclave SUV truely looks amazingly nice, though, and may be the beginning of a new era for Buick, Cadillac, and GM as a whole.
As technology improves - such as semi-active and active dynamic suspension systems, you will start to see sporty cars like BMW be capable of being more comfortable whilst staying just as sporty... and you'll see lux cars like Lexus be capable of being more sporty, whilst staying comfortable. But for now the world is full of compromises... one car cannot be all things to all people. So for now let the sales numbers speak for which design model got the average consumer the most interested.
BTW, the wheels on the LS460 are ugly. Seems they had them leftover from the old ES330
10-22-06, 12:14 AM
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I am sure when the mag do the direct comparison and testing of the S, 7, A8 & LS, I bet you that the average milage difference is not going to be 10 mpg between the S and the LS.
10-22-06, 02:13 AM
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I've noticed for a while that Edmunds has been purposely trying to write against Lexus because they want to avoid all the bashing from Lexus haters on their forums. But I think Edmunds is going extreme! The LS most probably the best car in its’ class, plus it’s faster than the S-class, achieves very similar handling, grip and braking numbers, yet they complain about how LS numbers are average at best while they let the S-class pass.
It's not about the performance numbers; it's the way Edmunds is writing about the LS. Evident bias, that's what I call it. They don't want to be left out from the bandwagon, they want to be like C&D etc, appear to know about "driving" cars, drivers, enthusiasts...
It's not working; I mean I can expect something like that from C&D but Edmunds??? That was sad!
Edmunds says: “Is the LS 460 the equal of such grandees of the high-end game as the Mercedes-Benz S-Class and BMW 7 Series? After a week in this standard-wheelbase example, our answer is, "Not yet."”
HAHAHAHAAAAA, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH... I had to laugh when I read that. Are they trying to be philosophical and "I've done it all, seen it all, and this car people is no where near the best" What are they talking about!!! They didn’t even test a loaded LS460L. That statement is as credible as saying the S-class performance numbers are disappointing (when they would have tested an S350 instead of a 550)
Here are some examples (again performance numbers are not everything to me, but it’s the way they wrote about the LS)
"You would expect the new 750 to be about as quick as the old one, yet we only managed a best 0-to-60 sprint of 6.4 seconds, with the transmission in sport mode. The last 745i we tested did it in six seconds flat. We can't fully explain this except to say two different cars on two different days at two different test facilities don't always produce the test numbers you expect."
Why are they even trying to justify the outcome? Why are they trying to explain the result? They should just say “The refreshed 7 series is a disapointment because with a bigger and more powerful engine it reaches 60 miles .4 seconds slower than the last genertion…” instead it feels like they were about to appologize.
"In testing, the 5.5-liter V8 with 382 horsepower and 391 pound-feet of torque propelled the 4,270-pound S550 to 60 mph in 6.1 seconds. The quarter-mile flew by in 14.2 seconds with a trap speed of 101 mph. The quickest runs were accomplished by letting the engine and seven-speed transmission do all the work. Manually shifting by means of the steering-wheel-mounted shift buttons actually produced slower times, an indication that the shift algorithms have been massaged as much for speed as smoothness."
Notice how they just let it slip, let's read that again: “…S550 to 60mph in 6.1 seconds. The quarter-mile flew by in 14.2 seconds with a trap speed of 101 mph. The quickest runs were accomplished by letting the engine and seven-speed transmission do all the work. Manually shifting by means of the steering-wheel-mounted shift buttons actually produced slower times, an indication that the shift algorithms have been massaged as much for speed as smoothness.”
WHAT! What’s that??? Where is complaint? They just let it go and move on the next subject without a negative comment.
"At the test track, that automatic combines with the A8's all-wheel drive and 19-inch Pirelli P6 tires to produce the world's most boring launches, but the car is quick. We measured 0-to-60-mph performance at 5.8 seconds, and the quarter-mile at 13.8 seconds at 102 mph. Remarkable performance for a 4,700-pound car"
So 5.8 is good now!
It's not about the performance numbers; it's the way Edmunds is writing about the LS. Evident bias, that's what I call it. They don't want to be left out from the bandwagon, they want to be like C&D etc, appear to know about "driving" cars, drivers, enthusiasts...
It's not working; I mean I can expect something like that from C&D but Edmunds??? That was sad!
Edmunds says: “Is the LS 460 the equal of such grandees of the high-end game as the Mercedes-Benz S-Class and BMW 7 Series? After a week in this standard-wheelbase example, our answer is, "Not yet."”
HAHAHAHAAAAA, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH... I had to laugh when I read that. Are they trying to be philosophical and "I've done it all, seen it all, and this car people is no where near the best" What are they talking about!!! They didn’t even test a loaded LS460L. That statement is as credible as saying the S-class performance numbers are disappointing (when they would have tested an S350 instead of a 550)
Here are some examples (again performance numbers are not everything to me, but it’s the way they wrote about the LS)
"You would expect the new 750 to be about as quick as the old one, yet we only managed a best 0-to-60 sprint of 6.4 seconds, with the transmission in sport mode. The last 745i we tested did it in six seconds flat. We can't fully explain this except to say two different cars on two different days at two different test facilities don't always produce the test numbers you expect."
Why are they even trying to justify the outcome? Why are they trying to explain the result? They should just say “The refreshed 7 series is a disapointment because with a bigger and more powerful engine it reaches 60 miles .4 seconds slower than the last genertion…” instead it feels like they were about to appologize.
"In testing, the 5.5-liter V8 with 382 horsepower and 391 pound-feet of torque propelled the 4,270-pound S550 to 60 mph in 6.1 seconds. The quarter-mile flew by in 14.2 seconds with a trap speed of 101 mph. The quickest runs were accomplished by letting the engine and seven-speed transmission do all the work. Manually shifting by means of the steering-wheel-mounted shift buttons actually produced slower times, an indication that the shift algorithms have been massaged as much for speed as smoothness."
Notice how they just let it slip, let's read that again: “…S550 to 60mph in 6.1 seconds. The quarter-mile flew by in 14.2 seconds with a trap speed of 101 mph. The quickest runs were accomplished by letting the engine and seven-speed transmission do all the work. Manually shifting by means of the steering-wheel-mounted shift buttons actually produced slower times, an indication that the shift algorithms have been massaged as much for speed as smoothness.”
WHAT! What’s that??? Where is complaint? They just let it go and move on the next subject without a negative comment.
"At the test track, that automatic combines with the A8's all-wheel drive and 19-inch Pirelli P6 tires to produce the world's most boring launches, but the car is quick. We measured 0-to-60-mph performance at 5.8 seconds, and the quarter-mile at 13.8 seconds at 102 mph. Remarkable performance for a 4,700-pound car"
So 5.8 is good now!
Last edited by GSsnarl; 10-22-06 at 02:16 AM.
10-22-06, 06:18 AM
#39
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10-22-06, 08:53 AM
#40
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Lexus may try to build some sportier models over the next decade or so to truely try to compete with the Euros, without giving up their luxury models. You might have noticed GM's Cadillac is getting much sportier with its newer model releases (just wait until you see the CTS a year from now.... it's incredible!), and at the same time the new Buick models that are about to be released are going WAY upscale and obviously aimed at Lexus. In fact their Lucerne and Lacrosse were aimed at Lexus but fell laughably short in my opinion. Their new Buick Enclave SUV truely looks amazingly nice, though, and may be the beginning of a new era for Buick, Cadillac, and GM as a whole.
As technology improves - such as semi-active and active dynamic suspension systems, you will start to see sporty cars like BMW be capable of being more comfortable whilst staying just as sporty... and you'll see lux cars like Lexus be capable of being more sporty, whilst staying comfortable. But for now the world is full of compromises... one car cannot be all things to all people. So for now let the sales numbers speak for which design model got the average consumer the most interested.
Lexus may try to build some sportier models over the next decade or so to truely try to compete with the Euros, without giving up their luxury models. You might have noticed GM's Cadillac is getting much sportier with its newer model releases (just wait until you see the CTS a year from now.... it's incredible!), and at the same time the new Buick models that are about to be released are going WAY upscale and obviously aimed at Lexus. In fact their Lucerne and Lacrosse were aimed at Lexus but fell laughably short in my opinion. Their new Buick Enclave SUV truely looks amazingly nice, though, and may be the beginning of a new era for Buick, Cadillac, and GM as a whole.
As technology improves - such as semi-active and active dynamic suspension systems, you will start to see sporty cars like BMW be capable of being more comfortable whilst staying just as sporty... and you'll see lux cars like Lexus be capable of being more sporty, whilst staying comfortable. But for now the world is full of compromises... one car cannot be all things to all people. So for now let the sales numbers speak for which design model got the average consumer the most interested.
No...it doesn't work that way. There are inherent compromises when you design and build a car. Even though features like variable-rate / electronically-controlled suspensions, multi-valve shocks, etc.... do allow you to combine ride comfort and responsiveness to some extent, still, in general, you HAVE to give up at least some of one when you have the other. These auto writers and ads that, over and over again, say things in their write-ups like " It has great handling without giving up ride comfort ".......hogwash, most of that is nonsense. These people are feeding you a line of bull-******. You have to have a low center of gravity and stiffness in the suspension and tires if you want sporty handling. And you have to have softness in the tires and suspension if you want ride comfort.
Other factors like wheelbase length, vehicle weight, amount of vehicle weight on the overhangs, length of suspension travel, etc.....also come into play, but in general, comfort and control work against each other.
Now, true, some high-tech features like the ones I just mentioned offer you some of both worlds, but NOT AT THE SAME TIME. For instance, electronically-controlled 3-way suspensions with COMFORT, NORMAL, and SPORT settings let you choose the level of stiffness you want over any given stretch of road.....but you can't have all 3 at once. LIkewise, electronically-variable struts like Cadillac's Magnaride go softer in level, straight driving but automatically stiffen up in turns.....once again, you have either comfort and stiffness, but not at once.
So, in the end, you still have to design a car primarily for comfort OR for sportiness. And the trend in recent years, obviously, is for more and more sportiness at the expense of ride comfort...we see this every year in the proliferation of lower and lower-profile tires and stiffer and stiffer suspensions....even from such " luxury " manufacturers as Lexus. The auto industry is pandering more and more to the " sport " enthusiasts and less and less to those who want ride comfort. Most of the truly soft-riding cars are now history, and even formerly soft-riding ones like the Lexus ES330 are now semi-sports sedans.
Last edited by mmarshall; 10-22-06 at 09:00 AM.
10-22-06, 02:05 PM
#41
Lexus Champion
No...it doesn't work that way. There are inherent compromises when you design and build a car. Even though features like variable-rate / electronically-controlled suspensions, multi-valve shocks, etc.... do allow you to combine ride comfort and responsiveness to some extent, still, in general, you HAVE to give up at least some of one when you have the other. These auto writers and ads that, over and over again, say things in their write-ups like " It has great handling without giving up ride comfort ".......hogwash, most of that is nonsense. These people are feeding you a line of bull-******. You have to have a low center of gravity and stiffness in the suspension and tires if you want sporty handling. And you have to have softness in the tires and suspension if you want ride comfort.
Other factors like wheelbase length, vehicle weight, amount of vehicle weight on the overhangs, length of suspension travel, etc.....also come into play, but in general, comfort and control work against each other.
Now, true, some high-tech features like the ones I just mentioned offer you some of both worlds, but NOT AT THE SAME TIME. For instance, electronically-controlled 3-way suspensions with COMFORT, NORMAL, and SPORT settings let you choose the level of stiffness you want over any given stretch of road.....but you can't have all 3 at once. LIkewise, electronically-variable struts like Cadillac's Magnaride go softer in level, straight driving but automatically stiffen up in turns.....once again, you have either comfort and stiffness, but not at once.
So, in the end, you still have to design a car primarily for comfort OR for sportiness. And the trend in recent years, obviously, is for more and more sportiness at the expense of ride comfort...we see this every year in the proliferation of lower and lower-profile tires and stiffer and stiffer suspensions....even from such " luxury " manufacturers as Lexus. The auto industry is pandering more and more to the " sport " enthusiasts and less and less to those who want ride comfort. Most of the truly soft-riding cars are now history, and even formerly soft-riding ones like the Lexus ES330 are now semi-sports sedans.
Other factors like wheelbase length, vehicle weight, amount of vehicle weight on the overhangs, length of suspension travel, etc.....also come into play, but in general, comfort and control work against each other.
Now, true, some high-tech features like the ones I just mentioned offer you some of both worlds, but NOT AT THE SAME TIME. For instance, electronically-controlled 3-way suspensions with COMFORT, NORMAL, and SPORT settings let you choose the level of stiffness you want over any given stretch of road.....but you can't have all 3 at once. LIkewise, electronically-variable struts like Cadillac's Magnaride go softer in level, straight driving but automatically stiffen up in turns.....once again, you have either comfort and stiffness, but not at once.
So, in the end, you still have to design a car primarily for comfort OR for sportiness. And the trend in recent years, obviously, is for more and more sportiness at the expense of ride comfort...we see this every year in the proliferation of lower and lower-profile tires and stiffer and stiffer suspensions....even from such " luxury " manufacturers as Lexus. The auto industry is pandering more and more to the " sport " enthusiasts and less and less to those who want ride comfort. Most of the truly soft-riding cars are now history, and even formerly soft-riding ones like the Lexus ES330 are now semi-sports sedans.
Let's restate what I said
-There are compromises in design... current cars cannot be all things to all people
-In the next decade or so we will definitely see technology allowing sporty cars to become more comfortable and comfortable cars to become more sporty.
Do you contest either of those statements? Note that I did not say or insinuate that in the next decade a car would be able to be all things to all people - just that that technology would allow them to come closer together... and it has! I mean today we have cars that perform better than a Corvette from 20 years ago in both handling and acceleration, arguably have easier to translate feedback, too, and more comfortable than the caddies and jags of those days. In other words, a car that if it was released back then would be the best of both worlds - the perfect no compromise car.
Granted what has happened in the mean time is that the sporty cars have become even sportier and the lux cars have become far more luxurious meaning for a car to be as good at both games today would be a near impossibility, but over the next decade or so the numbers put up by today's cars will become closer and closer to a possibility for a single car to achieve without compromise. And who knows, in 20 years maybe we'll have a premium brand car that will put the smack down on a C6 Corvette around a race track, still ride more comfortably and quietly than an LS430. That might sound crazy, but again, look at the last 20 years. History tends to repeat itself.
In terms of technology, we aren't there yet, but in theory a properly setup true full-active suspension system should simultanously be able to tighten up for a turn, yet absorb the bump in the road that you hit while taking the turn. But for now, in the mean time, I still think a car that can ride smooth when the road conditions are good and get sporty the instant I make a quick turn or hit the brakes is a pretty good step in the right direction of allowing a car to be more sporty, and more luxurious.
I mean even something like, for example, sound inversion. Here you've got a technology that can not only reduce noise inside the car (luxury), but also allow designers to reduce the weight of physical sound deadening material inside the car, which in turn makes the car weigh less, which in turn enhances almost every aspect of the car's sport capabilities. Thus a technology that improves luxury and sport all in one... or all one or the other depending on how designers choose to use the tech to their advantage... but there in lies reason why a 'all things to all people' will never happen unless you look at progress over the decades rather... GM engineers get their working version of sound inversion and they may choose to use it to allow weight to be stripped entirely. Thus no added luxury, just sport... and you may see a lexus flagship model use the tech to just stifle what remaining noise there is, without removing weight.
Last edited by Threxx; 10-22-06 at 02:13 PM.
10-22-06, 03:46 PM
#42
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The 20 year look back is an excellent tool. Two stroke F1 motorcycles of 20 years ago would get a very tough run for the money with current crop of 4 stroke street bikes. Had active suspension not been banned by the FIA, I believe the suspensions Threxx is talking about would exist today. And it isn't at all unrealistic to believe a properly designed and executed computer controlled suspension could deliver better sporting performance than the current 3 series AND more luxurious ride quality than even the isolation-mobile Cadillacs of the 60's and 70's (and those cars really did float down the road!). Despite all this who-ha about suspension needing to be stiff to work, the real truth is, the wheel needs to stay in contact with the road, and the chassis needs to be minimally affected by the wheel's motion in relation to the road surface. Anything that achieves this goal is good, and it may well be that the ultimate suspension rides "Lexus soft," but is engineered to keep all four corners balanced and in contact with the road regardless of the severity of the obstacle.
I know from tuning motorcycles for road racing that the softest spring you can use that just keeps the machine from dragging on the worst bumps is the right one. Stiffer != better, it's just stiffer. If it's so stiff that the tire stops following the contours and starts bouncing off the tops of the bumps, you've gone way too stiff. I've seen LOTS of guys do this to their cars and they think it handles way better when in fact, a softer suspended car would drive right around them in mid-turn.
I know from tuning motorcycles for road racing that the softest spring you can use that just keeps the machine from dragging on the worst bumps is the right one. Stiffer != better, it's just stiffer. If it's so stiff that the tire stops following the contours and starts bouncing off the tops of the bumps, you've gone way too stiff. I've seen LOTS of guys do this to their cars and they think it handles way better when in fact, a softer suspended car would drive right around them in mid-turn.
10-22-06, 04:17 PM
#43
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The 20 year look back is an excellent tool. Two stroke F1 motorcycles of 20 years ago would get a very tough run for the money with current crop of 4 stroke street bikes. Had active suspension not been banned by the FIA, I believe the suspensions Threxx is talking about would exist today. And it isn't at all unrealistic to believe a properly designed and executed computer controlled suspension could deliver better sporting performance than the current 3 series AND more luxurious ride quality than even the isolation-mobile Cadillacs of the 60's and 70's (and those cars really did float down the road!). Despite all this who-ha about suspension needing to be stiff to work, the real truth is, the wheel needs to stay in contact with the road, and the chassis needs to be minimally affected by the wheel's motion in relation to the road surface. Anything that achieves this goal is good, and it may well be that the ultimate suspension rides "Lexus soft," but is engineered to keep all four corners balanced and in contact with the road regardless of the severity of the obstacle.
I know from tuning motorcycles for road racing that the softest spring you can use that just keeps the machine from dragging on the worst bumps is the right one. Stiffer != better, it's just stiffer. If it's so stiff that the tire stops following the contours and starts bouncing off the tops of the bumps, you've gone way too stiff. I've seen LOTS of guys do this to their cars and they think it handles way better when in fact, a softer suspended car would drive right around them in mid-turn.
I know from tuning motorcycles for road racing that the softest spring you can use that just keeps the machine from dragging on the worst bumps is the right one. Stiffer != better, it's just stiffer. If it's so stiff that the tire stops following the contours and starts bouncing off the tops of the bumps, you've gone way too stiff. I've seen LOTS of guys do this to their cars and they think it handles way better when in fact, a softer suspended car would drive right around them in mid-turn.
Good post. Having stiff springs alone is the crudest way to try to keep the tire contact patch actually touching the road during cornering. Without sway bars or very springy ones, a car will lean/roll in corners leaving the only resistance to lean in corners being the springs/shocks which do a lousy job, if not electronically controlled.
BMW and Lexus have electronically controlled sway bars which is a REAL innovation as it allows sways to get stiffer on one side or the other AS NEEDED which means they're stiff on the outside of the car in a turn (depending on speed, tightness of turn, etc.) and so don't rattle the teeth of the occupants like fixed stiff ones do when driving down the highway.
Next are active dampers/springs/coils - there's several approaches, from General Motors, Mercedes, BMW, Lexus. The most sophisticated can actively adjust stiffness per wheel in real time, with air, or just applying some hydraulic pressure to stiffen a damper, or my favorite, the General Motors magnetic ride control which uses a special fluid in dampers that can go from completely 'runny' to rock hard or anything in between by applying magnetism - it's an insanely great innovation. Someone other than GM - can't remember who - licensed it from GM because it's so good. GM offers it on Cadillacs, the Corvette, and maybe some other models. I think Mercedes 'ABC' (active body control) uses purely hydraulic actuation to stiffen/soften dampers in real time, and it works exceptionally well. The new CL has a 'new version' which I don't know the details of, but I bet it's an amazing drive.
Some cars have adjustable suspensions, but they're 'dumb' just giving you different ride stiffnesses. This is like Tein coilovers with EDFC. Smart OEM systems interact with yaw, speed, turning and other sensors to adjust everything per wheel.
In my view, the new LS, while an awesome car, should NOT be bought without the new AVS (adaptive variable suspension). It's not a question of whether someone wants to drive an LS like a sports car. Adaptive/active suspensions make cars more comfortable AND capable under ALL circumstances. Accept nothing else.
10-23-06, 06:20 AM
#44
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