DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Members,

I'm starting this post with a request to keep to the topic of the article and to comparison of the vehicles discussed. We had a previous thread closed because members decided to make the conversation personal and start ragging on each other.

Please help me and the forum by being precise in your responses and respectful of other member's opinions, even if you think they are dead wrong

This thread will be heavily moderated. If you can't be polite to other members posting in this thread either 1) don't post or 2) prepare to have your access temporarily suspensended. This is your advance warning - keep to the topic of the cars and their features / functions.

Scan of the article follows.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Discuss.

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

I like one of the last lines:

"The two cars are of different lineage and are not true competitors."

Each car is functionally different. Don't compare the two like they're trying to copy one another. Each car is trying to be as unique as possible. If you want the best performance and handling, you gotta go with the Bimmer. If you want the most comfortable with best safety, you gotta go with the Lex.

'nuff said.

speedyg

Seems like the GS450h they tested didn't have the Power Active Vehicle Stabilizer system. I wonder how that would have improved handling.

It's also hidden in the article, but the GS450h would have a faster 0-60 time than a 550i with steptronic (automatic transmission.) At one point, I was actually trying to decide between getting a 550/545 and a GS450h and decided on the GS450h for these reasons:

GS450h - better acceleration, better price (get more for the money), better fuel economy, better (easier to use, higher rated) navigation system, better ergonomics (no stupid iDrive), better reliability (probably), better for the environment (cleaner emissions), quieter cabin, smoother ride
550i automatic with sport package - better handling (cornering, braking), better trunk room, worse in all the other areas mentioned above

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

$1300 gaz guzzler tax, no navigation on the test BMW

Navigation/ML included in the test price of the GS450h. BMW is better equipped for performance in this test, Lexus was much better equipped in luxury, features, technology

jrock65

I don't know that the GS450h will be faster than a 550i auto. R&T has tested the 545i auto at 5.2s.

Gojirra99

Yes, it's just an expression of a personal opinion of what the author prefers. Different people have different preferences, a quiet car is plus to some & a minus to others, etc. The GS450h is a niche car. It's best to drive the cars themselves to see which suit them the best.

INHOCJP

I'm not a fan of the 5-series styling, but 0-60 in 5.0 secs w/ the manual? Hats off to BMW

The GS460 is really going to have to get into the low 5 sec range to remain competetive in this segment. The new E550 and BMW 550 0-60 times are very impressive.

jrock65

Isn't this the case for EVERY BMW v. Lexus test?

I can't think of a single comparo between a BMW and Lexus where this wouldn't be the case.

doug_999

BMW claims that the automatic is 1/10th of a second slower than the manual and SMG. Having an automatic 550 I have no reason to doubt this as it seems to be one of the most responsive transmissions I have ever driven.

However, I certainly wish they had tested a 550 auto WITH Active Steering none-the-less. Most reviews of late really like the Active Steering and I think BMW must have made some computer calibrations. I know that I want it in all of my cars now!

Last but not least, the interior color in the BMW is not available here in the US. That makes me wonder what the deal with this car is (doesn't seem to be Canadian as the speedometer is US).

Oh and I should add that I agree, not only should the car have had auto and active steering, but Navigation as well -that of course would put the price a bit higher on the BMW. However if the Lexus had the ARS like the BMW, it would also be priced higher.

PS - I was blown away by the weight of the GS and the braking numbers. I certainly expected the GS450 to weigh a lot more and take a lot longer to stop. When you compare the total
swept area and the size of the brakes it is even more impressive that the GS is able to stop so fast.

edit: I should add that the BMW nav while not nearly as nice as the Lexus, can at least be programmed while driving (and listening to MP3s).
(that was for you speedyg - all in good fun of course!)

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Wouldn't be surprised. Seems like every performance-oriented car is pushing the benchmark. I remember long ago, 5 second territory belonged to the supercar. Now you have family cruisers that can acheive the same time. Give it 10 years and the BMW M5 will get from 0-60 in 3.5 seconds

GFerg

Its an interesting comparison(though with some very silly and nonsensical comments) and IMO I think the 450h did well despite that they are argueably very different. Manual vs. CVT, Sport Package vs. Non-sport package or no anti sway bar tech(which in my opinion was a huge mistake on Lexus part) etc etc. No its not going to beat the 5-series in handling, but what other car has?? The GS shines in many other areas that are really not important to Road &Track.

The fact that Lexus has been saying that the new GS is going to be a true 5-series competitor is warranting them these reviews. People were expecting Lexus to really deliever and blow BMW out of the water in there own game, but unfortunately a great majority think otherwise, plus the fact that Lexus ALWAYS sends the press vehicles that are not properly equipped for the test. IMO, I think the GS-series is fine the way it is, but a true VSC off button wouldnt hurt either .

But in the GS's defense, it is about 200-300lbs heavier with less hp (about 21hp), and its acceleration times are on par with a 6-speed manual 550i. Handling is obviously not as good, but can hold its own. Add to the fact that the regenerative braking system and the heavier weight hardly affected the stopping distance. How can any Lexus owner be upset with that?? They have a winner with this car I think.

Its a well rounded vehicle with cutting edge technology that happens to still be cheaper than the German rivals.

We really need to accept the fact that Lexus will not dethrown one of the best manufacturers in handling. Yes they can be very competitive(case in point the 2IS), but it will never shut BMW up.

Gojirra99

I agree, most people have always thought of them as Mercedes competitor much more so than BMW, it seems they start to say otherwise themselves about 2 years ago It's OK if they''re serious about it, but they just can't seem to really let their hair down.
It happens too many times, I almost suspect they did that on purpose . . .

INHOCJP

Ten years? At this rate, wouldn't be shocked to see it happen in 2-3 years

Oh, and the 450H averaged 18.7 mpg for the test? Well, I guess it's better than the 15.7 the 550 averaged, but I expected a bigger difference between the two

Gojirra99

I guess hybrids does not have that big of an advantage when you try to beat them up on a test track in these comparisons. It's when you are driving them normally in city traffic then they are more efficient because it'll be using the electric motor a lot more.