usermel

It was predicted by me this would happen and in some ways I am. Lexus has finally with the new L-finese designs moved into more direct competition with the German powers and Jag. The question is this, the edge Lexus had over the other makes in the luxury segment was the price being in some cases $15,000-$20,000 lower, in some cases $5,000-$10,000 . With the gap changing along with the cars themselves how many of the new luxury car first time buyers will choose Lexus over the other makes being that price will become less of an obstacle. I would say this 3 years ago and was called names for it on this siteand asked to go back to Benz, know it appears what I saw coming 3 years ago is here(or on its way in 3-5 years) . The very thing that made Lexus what most of us loved is being lost. We didn't buy lexus cars because they were like Benz and BMW or at least I didn't. We or I purchased a Lexus because I liked the car the way it was. Don't get me wrong theres nothing wrong with improving on a car to make it more attactive. Whats wrong is the reason for doing so, its like smoking a cigar to fit in with the guys playing poker to fit in during a game of poker, and Benz and BMW,Jag and Audi have cigars and Lexus is smoking for the first time to fit in . You are who you are, and hay change is good but I question why. My reason for loving Lexus cars has been took away from me. Can I afford the higher prices, yes and if I wanted to pay more I would buy a Benz. As for now who would still buy a equally optioned Lexus over an equally optioned Benz, BMW or Jag.Try not to be biased because the day is upon us and coming were you will see what ive said is true they is no loyalty with big business and the consumer. Loyalty last as long as a dollar can be seen.We were all baited in to become loyal and by the time we were to see there was no differeance in price it would be to late. I know the prices aren't the same yet but soon they will. Would you still buy the Lexus? GOD IS GOOD ALL THe TIME !!!!!!!

LexLaw

Even with Lexus pricing slowly closing the gap and one day (perhaps) equalling) the High End Euros, I would still choose The premier Japanese Luxury automaker. To me Lexus quality and reliability and now styling is enough for me to continue making that decision. MB and BMW along with Audi will always offer attractive cars but that alone is not enough for me as a new or used car buyer. Lexus has simply won me over with their products and service offered. It goes beyond "Luxury Bang For The Buck". If that were soley the case I would pick Acura or Infinitis as my chhoice of cars. Its the overall package. I'd be lying if I said price is a non factor because for me it definitely is. That being said if the SC and CLK/SL or LS or A8 were equally priced I'd still lean more towards Lexus because of the aforementioned reasons. And with this new LS460 or LS600h MB has got a problem on their hands. That LS vs the S-Class imo is looking really ugly right now. I don't see myself driving anything without that chrome L on the grille for anytime soon. Lexus is offering to many choices right now especially with their L-finesse styling, I'm so glad they stepped out of the boxb finally. I'm patiently looking forward to the new SC

LEXUS FAN!

Lexus pricing is still cheaper because as Lexus increases the price, so do the german competitors...MB has increased their S class prices by a lot already...the S600 for example was increased by 20K

off topic

is MB going to offer a less powerful S class in the US like the S430 was?

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

I think Lexus has been able to increase prices due to many factors. On the top of my head, I can think of reliability, quality, prestige, technology, resale value, service, etc.

Consumers are now savvy and know what they want and what they can get. They know that although other luxury automakers such as MB or BMW can offer the history and performance and luxury that make them highly sought after, Lexus can provide similar amenities but as a better package as a whole. That's why Lexus will sell, and that's why Lexus can charge accordingly.

encore888

I think the allure of Lexus has been in significant part, perhaps 50% or more, because of its lower pricing. But Lexus has always stated from the get-go that they were going toe to toe with the best in the world. Their goal was to meet and beat them at their game.

So if cheaper pricing is the only reason to go with Lexus, then they haven't been doing their job.

The new Lexus automobiles have increased in refinement, comfort, and features to levels past their competitors in a variety of ways..this is a process that began with the first LS. Now with captivating styling, the top-of-the-line service and other accoutrements means that Lexus should be able to sell on its merits alone, and not because of the pricing.

But it's still a work in progress, and the Lexus lineup has been expanding the top end but not losing the bottom end. Entry-level IS/ES, and possibly base price on the LS will all remain close to the original points they began with.

But I hope Lexus doesn't price itself out of my range. Otherwise, I can see myself going back to Toyotas. Good thing the trickle-down effect has given the new Toyotas lots of Lexus-like amenities and ambience.

LexLaw

Good Question. I would imagine so. but don't expect a V6 350 like other markets.

usermel

Come out of the matrix. I was asking for you guys not to be biased. I love Lexus cars to but the truth is what we see. And reliabilty, I can't tell you how many problems others and myself have had with our LS 430's. Compared to the German makes yes the Japanese automakers have performed better. This still doesnt mean Lexus quality hasn't slipped a bit more and more since they started in 1990. Again I'm pro Lexus but if we want to maintain the quality and good pricing we must stop saying nothings wrong, because if we say its perfect they wont change a thing. You mean nobody agrees at all that they are changing only for the good of there pockets. Come on Neo's, red pill or blue pill. Again I say to you I'm pro Lexus, and love the cars but they are not focused anymore on what made us buy there cars. So nothings wrong when the LS usta be $30,000 less than the s-class and not even 20 years later its the same price in some cases? The Japanese cost to make there cars is also lower than the germans so there profit of american sells is MOB like, move over Capone and Soprano. I respect you guys opinions but all of you are biased about this topic but I understand, you never know a girl is no good like others until she does you wrong. Again dont be offended by me I mean no disrespect to you guys, your all club mates with me so Its all love we just disagree. Again look at infiniti and Acura, why have they not done what Lexus has? It was our support not lack of quality of Acura and Infiniti cars. The Honda and toyota and other Japanese makes are all well built and reliable not on the same level but hay they do well. We the consumers made Lexus not the other way around. Benz was always expensive and also BMW Jag and Audi. Lexus was the smart mans buy, quality along with price. Lexus is now no different than Benz. Next the quality will slip they dont have to care as much,give it 5 years no comments today. GOD IS GOOD ALL THE TIME.

usermel

Check this out, I said in my thread though equal option pricing not base. Benz and BMW and Jags base is more eqipped so its not a fair comparison with the more traditional makes.I want us to look at same option pricing. The draw with Lexus was base entry level. No more can we use that to compare because the LS now has a long wheel base in the 460 and 600 series. Game on so lets compare apples to apples not grapes to apples. And the base for the LS is said to be going up $5,000-$6,000 big jump. Again you had some great points and made me think a whole lot, the toyata thing you mentioned was right on, They made the new Camry look like a luxury car with options and a base model is very nice lookiung also. I had a lexus dealer tell me to buy a Camry that the were the same engine wise just less power and had toyota on the back instead of Lexus and less options than Lexus. Now its closing the gap on lexus, and toyotas look entry level luxury(Avalon,Camry) GOD IS GOOD ALL THE TIME.

retrodrive

No matter how you look at it; Lexus is a top brand of choice when it comes to buying an upscale car, yet not loosing too much resale. There will always be a huge market of smart individuals who would buy Lexus over anything German.

STIG

There's a reason that people are still buying Lexus even though the price appears to be the same as German counterparts. I just love my IS350. It's unbelievably Smooth and GOOD!

maz

When rappers are mentioniong that they roll in Lexus's in their songs, thats when you know that Lexus is right up there with BMW and Benz in terms of prestige. And I don't think Lexus quality will drop as the prices go up, cause if it does they will lose much of their customer loyalty and they will lose one of their best selling factors.

spwolf

Market already told you what happens when Lexus raises prices - people buy more Lexus's than ever. Also, Jag and Audi sell less cars than what Lexus ES sells alone.

You are asking question that should be one year old. Today market has answered that it wants better, higher priced Lexus's.

encore888

You have good points, usermel, in that Japanese cost base is lower (due to rigorous efficiency and cost control), but now Lexus is possibly charging (or is at least very close) to = with the Germans. This = more profit for Toyota/Lexus.

However, will quality slip? I agree with you, the early LS 430s had some serious issues which the LS 400 did not have in 1989. I'm hoping that was a blip for Lexus quality overall, as for instance in the recent JD Power results, the LS 430 is the one breaking records, and continues to be a top pick. Plus Lexus claims that with the LS 460 the Tahara production process was overhauled to make 'the world's best even better' so who knows, quality could stay stellar. But then there's the fact that more and more tech is being put into luxury cars to the point where it might not be possible to have the LS 400 type reliability. But I'm hoping the LS reliability and the rest of Lexus stays top-class. There has been some blips in the past few years (out of Lexus' 'dark age' time), but overall I'm still giving them my trust.

Another point is that Mercedes' drop in quality, in particular, seems to stem from a variety of production issues, and not simply arrogance at being 'on top and charging top dollar.' It seems that in the rush to compete with the Japanese and in the American market, Benz sacrificed quality and cost-cutting, along with putting in new electronic equipment that was prone to glitches. I think that it was a series of production errors that resulted in the bottom-of-the-heap ratings for Benz quality and reliability. I'm hoping that Lexus won't make the same mistake.

I and others have the feeling that Lexus will surprise some observers by making its new lineup still price-advantaged compared to the competition. There are rumors that the LS 600h L will be cheaper than expected (far from the $125,000 figure the NY Times mentioned). There will still be a $10,000 minimum advantage to the Germans. Yes, it's getting less and less, but it's there...

Another bit is that in the prestige luxury world, $$$s count and it seems that the cut-rate pricing hurts Lexus' image. People can say, "Lexus is #1 because they dump their product/sell for cheap/undercut on price"...the wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus suggests this. So Lexus, having built its reputation, no longer needs OR should use the price gap. Having = price suggests = or better value...! Also, there is this line of logic in the prestige luxury segment that 'if the customer can afford $XX,XXX, what's another $X,XXX?' Sort of the 'luxury buyer thinks of gas costs as a *'

From the consumer, pocketbook point of view, this is terrible. I am budget-minded, although I do believe in spending on luxury. So the idea that Lexus will go cost-up is not welcome to me. I can just hope that as Lexus grows, my income earning potential grows and I can afford the cars. I do think that I will opt out of the more expensive packages. As much as I ooh and aah over the rear-seat package on the LS, I doubt I will get it (even if I could afford the LS at this point!). The ES/IS are still competitive for me...if an IS coupe shows up...

Lexus moving up, because it can and because it's #1 in the US, grows a larger opening for Acura/Infiniti, the other Japanese luxury makes, and Cadillac/Buick/other near luxury-makers to come in and appeal to the more frugal luxury buyer. They won't get the same level of prestige and top-of-the-class luxury amenities, but they do get a lot of the same elements Lexus has, and a few better. One big one is the reality or perception of more performance on some models. It won't have the flair and total package of Lexus, but it's a serious contender. That said, Toyota is also a contender on this front with its XLE top models...

So with regards to pricing, it's may be a catch-22. If you don't price =, you lose some perception. If you do, you lose the value proposition.

I think that Lexus will aim for the in-between for a significant period to come. I just remembered, in The Lexus Story it was mentioned that a secret to Lexus' success was the realization that 'affluent people like a good deal too!' I hope Lexus doesn't forget that. It seems though that the 'good deal' may be paying near or equal price to the competition, for more amenities. Lexus better deliver on more amenities, or give a better deal. It seems Lexus considers quality to be its trump card thus far as 'always' resulting in a 'good deal' for the customer. One last benefit--Lexus dealerships still generally, to my knowledge, allow far more negotiating room in sales.

I hope to have a Lexus of my own in the future...but the perception is not necessarily the reality. Lexus seems to have more customers coming in all the time. I may be one of them--I hope to be one of them. But when it comes to getting the most for my money, I will pick accordingly. The Lexus cachet is something that I consider highly, so it will sway my decision in favor of a Lexus. But there are all sorts of factors to consider, and usermel you are right to consider cost as one of them.

Gojirra99

I can only speak for myself, but price is NOT a factor at all for me when I chose to buy a Lexus over the German/European brands.

Milla...

I too see your point usermel. I would like to say this though, in my view there are two types of luxury car buyers out there. Those who care and those who can afford not to. Those who do, the smart choice at this time would be Lexus so naturally these folk would be concerned with price, not so much that they can't afford it, but because they can't afford not to be concerned. Those who don't care can give a rats tail what the price is of the luxury car or how reliable the car is as long as it puts a smile on their face when they see it and drive it and if it brakes down next year they'll buy another they don't care, why because they can afford not to. I see nothing wrong with Lexus tapping into thoes pockets I think its a smart business move, if the money is there why not. I mean most who love lexus will go to a Toyota anyway if Lexus get out of their price range, so they're getting your money anyway, look at the new Avalon, see they're not forgetting about you, when the time comes when Lexus move out of folks price range they have a nice matress for people to fall into.