LexFather

You might have the ES 250, 1st gen GS and 1st gen IS as failures for Lexus, and only from a sales standpoint. However, they were improved upon and no Lexus model has EVER been discontinued.

And while Lexus is not the sportiest brand, they always fare very well in reviews, if not winning outright, then placing in a near top position.

We are talking about 6 straight years as number 1 in sales in America. Countless awards from the press.

With the GS 450h, LS 600h and LF-A coming, Lexus is boldly going where no other Japanese car company has come close to coming.

What if...

they fail???

What if people balk at the GS 450h and stick to the GErmans? What if people don't GET a performance hybrid?

Sure RX 400h sales are brisk but the RX is so good and well recieved with the market, you could add an electic toaster instead of a hybrid and it would have sold.

The Accord Hybrid, which is touted toward performance, pretty much cannot be given away.

Maybe consumers don't get it.

The Lexus LS 600h, while pricing has not been set, is GOING TO BE at least $80,000 dollars, possibly enroaching on $100.000 territory.

Are people READY to buy a $100,000 Japanese luxury car? Lexus seems to think so? I have my reservations. Its LESS about gearheads and MORE about people with money. And they go with ESTABLISHED BRANDS. Its why Tiffany's can sell a crappy 1/8 diamond for $5000 on a silver chain.

So what if the LS 600h fails?

As for the LF-A, you may say the NSX is the first Japanese Supercar and that arguement car be made. We are talking about though firsts for a Japanese sports car, a V-10 from F-1, size of a 911, and a price over $100,000 and around 500hp.

What if people just skip it? The NSX is a great example, a SUPERB car, but the lack of BRAND never made it a sales success here or anywhere.

Will the same happen to the LF-A?

xioix

I see Lexus would adjust production and lower the MSRP to see where the price of where consumers would buy it

The NSX was a sales success, its sales died because of a lack of new model

Ice350

iTrader: (1)

I think people would be more receptive to the 100K LS if the power levels matched the germans. I think a lot of german car drivers really want to consider lexus but 100K buys a german car with 500hp. The LS will be 380hp. More than enough but why not just push the envelope and go for the gusto. We are talking about 100K. Plus, the new es350 looks pretty good and comes with 270hp and lots of tech toys. That might steal some LS shoppers who don't care about rear wheel drive.

As for the LFA. I think it will do well because it will have the 500hp. I believe acura should have upped the power on the nsx. You got supercar looks, you need supercar power to match. Looks like lexus is putting the power in...they'll sell enough.

Stage3

iTrader: (3)

Ok, I understand about the whole "worried about the future" thing... but where you killed the credibility is how the first gen IS is considered a failure. I dont think it has EVER been considered a failure by ANYONES standards...

LexFather

From a sales standpoint its a failure. But I don't think OVERALL its a failure, it was a homerun for Lexus introducing the brand to a much younger audience and was loved by the press.

Stage3

iTrader: (3)

Ah... ok! Thanks for clearing that up!

Sup

The LF-A will fail if it is priced considerably more than the M6 (ie. 120K+), this is Vantage V8 and 911 Turbo territory. The Vantage V8 has a long waiting list and 911 Turbo owners tend to be very loyal, so where are the potential LF-A customers going to come from.

Sup

funny thing is the LF-A is the total opposite of the NSX, supercar power, luxo cruiser look.

GFerg

Not trying to sound overly optimistic but this is the company whos slogan is "Relentless Pusuit of Pefection". If the supercar and Hybrid models fail, they wont just let it happen and forget about it. They will figure out why it didnt work the first time around and take another crack at it, but in a different way and with far more advanced technology.

The obvious answer would be sales will tank for those models and Lexus growth would slow considerably. There is a lot riding on these hybrid models right now.

I think the LF-A has a greater chance of failing than the LS600hL. Genuine sport is just not in the Lexus DNA(though things are very slowly changing). If the LF-A fails then I think they would simply try again. Not necessarily with an all out Supercar, but they could go the AMG route and add sport models to the existing line up.

If the LS600h fails, they could easily limit production or find an alternative to hybrid. Or they could make the hybrid powerplant more fuel effiecient instead of focusing on performance.

Man, its kinda tough pointing out future Lexus failures. Everything's been going so smoothly its like they are immune to failure. But that "what if..." does make you think a little bit. The GS450h will be the first test. If this is a big hit, then I see no reason why the LS600 would have a problem.

newr

At $100K or more for a vehicle, there are so many choices out there. It is going to be tough. However, I think the LS600h won't have a problem because there is really no other competitions. People buy hybrid because they are HYBRID. It's just that simple. They know it is not cost effective in the end... It's the bragging rights... The LS600 has the luxury and power to match the German cars.. AND the HYBRID that German cars don't have. So for the LS600h, I think it will be a success.

For the LF-A, however, I think it will be tough battle..

videcormeum

I don't know. Obviously, the luxury market narrows considerably beyond the $30k price-point. But in my opinion, the mentality remains the same - people are looking to get a deal. Even though Lexus has attempted to differentiate their hybrid cars by making them more powerful than the non-hybrid cars, I don't know that it will be enough to drive sales into the clouds. In my opinion, it doesn't make sense to spend 8 or 10 thousand dollars more on a hybrid that gets to 60mph less than half a second quicker than the next-lower trim level - all while only saving about 5 mpg worth of gas. That'd only account for about $1500 worth of fuel savings annully with gas prices @ $3.00/gallon. That means over 6 years of additional ownership to see a benefit.

I just don't know if the novelty of hybrid technology - which is what this whole thing boils down to - will be enough to sell these cars. The only thing that will sell them is people's distorted ideas about how much they'll save on gas by purchasing these vehicles.

We'll see if there exists such a distortion.

M.

O. L. T.

iTrader: (17)

If the first gen IS was a failure from a sales standpoint, I can answer why. Even though it is a wonderful car, it is very un-lexus like and it's like wearing a blue tux to an all black tie affair. There were several nice surprises to the IS when I first got mine, and a few downfalls also. In general, it really is not very lexus like. The doors are light, the car is very small and if it were not as nice as it is, would be considered an econobox. Lexus buyers don't buy econoboxes.

If it did not drive so well, I'd never know it was a Lexus if the badge was not on the front. Comparing it to my SC however, the SC is much better built. Lexus nearly took a step backwards with the first gen IS. Fortunately for them, it drives like a dream and satisfies the Lexus urge in all of us, however... it is still just short of an econobox with it's size and lightweight attitude. Comparibly speaking of course, to the other models.

southernsc

I always thought the IS300 should have just been badged as a toyota altezza, it just lacks the lexus luster, the new IS fits the lexus style much better

92 SC400

I think both the the LF-A and LS600h stand good chances of failing...The first tiem around. I dont know that many people would be willing for fork over 100k for a Japanese car when you can find yourself in so many other cars; S550, E55, CLS, CLS55, 745i, Maserati Quattroporte, just to name a few. I think it would be hard to sway peoples' minds to buy a Lexus when they can have something like the aforementioned cars. Also as far as the LF-A goes, there seems to be lots of competition in that category. As stated before there is the 911 Turbo which for around the same price is definitely a fomidable opponent. There will be a NEW NSX, GTR, BMW M3/6, not to mention existing cas like the Z06 and SL500/55 AMG. If the LF-S gets too much over 100k it will defintely run into problems imo dealing with cars like Aston Martin, Maserati, Ford GT, Lamborghini and so forth. Depending on how high up the price goes Lexus might be barking up the wrong tree with this one. IMO if I had to pick on to succeed its going to be the LS.

HKGS300

IMO Lexus is pushing too hard and betting too much on the US market. All the models that Lexus will market in the coming years are US focused.

Since most of the CL members are US based, most of us are biased. Lexus is not an success in Europe and also is only doing okay in Asia. Hybrids are also not a success in Europe since a turbodiesel will have a much better economy on highways.

Asians (incl Japan) prefer German brands if the prices are the same. The new GS300 and IS250 are not selling well in Asia due to Toyota's pricing strategy. In other words, these cars are too expensive, and people prefer to drive BMWs or Mercedes over here.

Outside the US ... the SC430/Soarer is very very scarce.

I also believe that most Lexus owners do not consider performance as their most important reason to get a Lexus. Factors like reliability, ride/comfort, value-for-money (compared to Mercedes, BMW, ...) are more important.

Lexus is now trying to get into different markets with models that can jeopardize these factors if there are hiccups.

I dunno ... i think Lexus' strategy is very risky ...