Car Chat General discussion about Lexus, other auto manufacturers and automotive news.

Target, Toyota: Competitors Try To Trip Up the Carmaker on Its Way to No. 1

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 04-04-06, 07:55 PM
  #1  
GFerg
Speaks French in Russian

Thread Starter
 
GFerg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: What is G?
Posts: 13,250
Received 58 Likes on 45 Posts
Default Target, Toyota: Competitors Try To Trip Up the Carmaker on Its Way to No. 1

Toyota is wearing a target.



As the Japanese company marches assuredly toward capturing the title of No. 1 automaker in the world, overtaking General Motors, Toyota's competitors are determined not to roll over and play dead, allowing Toyota to cakewalk to the top spot.

Nowhere is it more evident than on the hybrid front. Automakers have joined forces in an effort (unofficially) to block Toyota from world domination. DaimlerChrysler and BMW accepted GM's invitation to cooperate in joint development of hybrid technology, in part to gang up on Toyota, some participants have whispered. The trio is expected to deliver a progress report later this spring. Meantime, Ford reportedly is considering joining the trinity, as it gears up to produce 250,000 hybrids a year by decade's end. Other Asian automakers are said to be considering signing up as well.

GM insiders say Toyota was nosing around about possibly joining the coup, but GM and others suspected Toyota was interested in espionage, not cooperation, sources indicated.

Competitors don't want Toyota dominating hybrid technology, especially battery production. Ford already has accused Toyota of deliberately withholding battery production from it.

Another front quietly brewing against Toyota involves E85 gasoline-ethanol fuel. Should E85 catch on, Chrysler, Ford and GM would have a leg up, having already produced millions of E85-capable vehicles. E85 is gaining the support of the U.S. government, members on both sides of the Congressional aisle, and some environmentalists, according to Washington, D.C. sources. Surveys show Americans rank importing less foreign oil higher than environmental concerns. Toyota officials, meantime, have been defensive about praise regarding E85 — and any negative charges against hybrids.

Toyota could face other public relations issues on its quest for No. 1. Two high-profile automotive journalists in Detroit predicted at an informal prognostication in December that it wouldn't be an easy road for Toyota. It is likely to get shot with arrows on a number of subjects and by a number of parties, they forecasted.

Indeed, Toyota is gaining a reputation that GM once had of being arrogant. The view is that Toyota seems to have the attitude that it can do no wrong and bristles at any criticism.

Other factors suggest Toyota's journey will be no walk in the park. CNW Marketing Research, the Bandon, Oregon, automotive research firm, recently listed in its monthly newsletter 15 issues facing Toyota.

While the domestics and Germans battle to hold their ground, Korean automakers Hyundai and Kia are attacking Toyota "from a second front," introducing vehicles directly aimed at Toyotas but "at significantly lower prices and with near-Toyota quality" and naming their competitor in ads. Case in point is the recently introduced Hyundai Azera, aimed squarely at the Toyota Avalon. Inside Line, in fact, picked the Azera over the Avalon in comparison.

Toyota faces an age issue, being seen as the Buick of the Asian brands. "Younger consumers are going through a phase of 'Not my father's Camry' just as the 1970s and 1980s youth market went through the 'Not my father's Oldsmobile,'" noted the CNW report. The average age of Camry drivers is 48, compared to Hyundai's 39. The report went on: "Younger consumers see Toyota as a brand for older drivers, lacking distinction and peer approval."

Even Scion, despite its sales success, is attracting older buyers. The average buyer age for the boxy xB has climbed dramatically because drivers over 65 find it a perfect low-cost, roomy, fuel-efficient lifestyle vehicle as younger consumers seek more performance.

Not every Toyota is a hit, including the Matrix and the current Tundra, with key audiences. The Tundra is aimed at the "appearance" segment, not the macho rancher-farmer/towing/contractor crowd, a problem being addressed with the next-generation Tundra.

The women's market, the report notes, is becoming less practical and more emotional, an area in which Toyota lags (though company officials take offense at any notion that their vehicles lack soul). The Ford Fusion has a 55-percent female primary driver penetration. Of them, approximately 40 percent had a Toyota on their shopping list, according to CNW studies.

Economics play a role as well. The Internet has made consumers aware of competitive pricing, competitive features and competitive quality/safety. The public assumes Toyota scores highest on all counts. "Mystique and reality collide. This was the undoing of VW in 2002-2005," notes CNW. Consumers also recognize repair costs are higher.

"General economics have seen household incomes rise while discounted and distinctive (fashion statement) products now appeal to all income groups. That pushed the high-line Camry intenders into Lexus (and other near luxury) models much akin to what happened to Ford's Taurus audience," the report says.

The incentive war and GM's price cuts have put Toyotas at a price disadvantage, by thousands. The report noted that despite Toyota's market share gain last year, North American financial returns were flat. At the same time, Toyota's broadening product line has forced higher advertising spending, and dealers are pressuring Toyota for deeper discounts because of local competitive offerings.

Despite these challenges, CNW sees no decline in Toyota sales, "not by a long shot." The firm concludes that "unlike the Big Three past and present, Toyota recognizes at least most of these issues and is actively confronting them."

Buyers clearly are voting with their wallets by buying ever more vehicles from Toyota, ensuring Toyota will hit the bull's eye in the next few years

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=109823
GFerg is offline  
Old 04-04-06, 07:55 PM
  #2  
Gojirra99
Super Moderator
 
Gojirra99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 30,054
Received 187 Likes on 128 Posts
Default Target, Toyota: Competitors Try To Trip Up the Carmaker on Its Way to No. 1

Date posted: 04-03-2006

Toyota is wearing a target.


As the Japanese company marches assuredly toward capturing the title of No. 1 automaker in the world, overtaking General Motors, Toyota's competitors are determined not to roll over and play dead, allowing Toyota to cakewalk to the top spot.

Nowhere is it more evident than on the hybrid front. Automakers have joined forces in an effort (unofficially) to block Toyota from world domination. DaimlerChrysler and BMW accepted GM's invitation to cooperate in joint development of hybrid technology, in part to gang up on Toyota, some participants have whispered. The trio is expected to deliver a progress report later this spring. Meantime, Ford reportedly is considering joining the trinity, as it gears up to produce 250,000 hybrids a year by decade's end. Other Asian automakers are said to be considering signing up as well.

GM insiders say Toyota was nosing around about possibly joining the coup, but GM and others suspected Toyota was interested in espionage, not cooperation, sources indicated.

Competitors don't want Toyota dominating hybrid technology, especially battery production. Ford already has accused Toyota of deliberately withholding battery production from it.

Another front quietly brewing against Toyota involves E85 gasoline-ethanol fuel. Should E85 catch on, Chrysler, Ford and GM would have a leg up, having already produced millions of E85-capable vehicles. E85 is gaining the support of the U.S. government, members on both sides of the Congressional aisle, and some environmentalists, according to Washington, D.C. sources. Surveys show Americans rank importing less foreign oil higher than environmental concerns. Toyota officials, meantime, have been defensive about praise regarding E85 — and any negative charges against hybrids.

Toyota could face other public relations issues on its quest for No. 1. Two high-profile automotive journalists in Detroit predicted at an informal prognostication in December that it wouldn't be an easy road for Toyota. It is likely to get shot with arrows on a number of subjects and by a number of parties, they forecasted.

Indeed, Toyota is gaining a reputation that GM once had of being arrogant. The view is that Toyota seems to have the attitude that it can do no wrong and bristles at any criticism.

Other factors suggest Toyota's journey will be no walk in the park. CNW Marketing Research, the Bandon, Oregon, automotive research firm, recently listed in its monthly newsletter 15 issues facing Toyota.

While the domestics and Germans battle to hold their ground, Korean automakers Hyundai and Kia are attacking Toyota "from a second front," introducing vehicles directly aimed at Toyotas but "at significantly lower prices and with near-Toyota quality" and naming their competitor in ads. Case in point is the recently introduced Hyundai Azera, aimed squarely at the Toyota Avalon. Inside Line, in fact, picked the Azera over the Avalon in comparison.

Toyota faces an age issue, being seen as the Buick of the Asian brands. "Younger consumers are going through a phase of 'Not my father's Camry' just as the 1970s and 1980s youth market went through the 'Not my father's Oldsmobile,'" noted the CNW report. The average age of Camry drivers is 48, compared to Hyundai's 39. The report went on: "Younger consumers see Toyota as a brand for older drivers, lacking distinction and peer approval."

Even Scion, despite its sales success, is attracting older buyers. The average buyer age for the boxy xB has climbed dramatically because drivers over 65 find it a perfect low-cost, roomy, fuel-efficient lifestyle vehicle as younger consumers seek more performance.

Not every Toyota is a hit, including the Matrix and the current Tundra, with key audiences. The Tundra is aimed at the "appearance" segment, not the macho rancher-farmer/towing/contractor crowd, a problem being addressed with the next-generation Tundra.

The women's market, the report notes, is becoming less practical and more emotional, an area in which Toyota lags (though company officials take offense at any notion that their vehicles lack soul). The Ford Fusion has a 55-percent female primary driver penetration. Of them, approximately 40 percent had a Toyota on their shopping list, according to CNW studies.

Economics play a role as well. The Internet has made consumers aware of competitive pricing, competitive features and competitive quality/safety. The public assumes Toyota scores highest on all counts. "Mystique and reality collide. This was the undoing of VW in 2002-2005," notes CNW. Consumers also recognize repair costs are higher.

"General economics have seen household incomes rise while discounted and distinctive (fashion statement) products now appeal to all income groups. That pushed the high-line Camry intenders into Lexus (and other near luxury) models much akin to what happened to Ford's Taurus audience," the report says.

The incentive war and GM's price cuts have put Toyotas at a price disadvantage, by thousands. The report noted that despite Toyota's market share gain last year, North American financial returns were flat. At the same time, Toyota's broadening product line has forced higher advertising spending, and dealers are pressuring Toyota for deeper discounts because of local competitive offerings.

Despite these challenges, CNW sees no decline in Toyota sales, "not by a long shot." The firm concludes that "unlike the Big Three past and present, Toyota recognizes at least most of these issues and is actively confronting them."

Buyers clearly are voting with their wallets by buying ever more vehicles from Toyota, ensuring Toyota will hit the bull's eye in the next few years.


The Toyota Camry draws buyers with an average age of 48 compared with Hyundai's 39. (Photo courtesy of Toyota)


The current Toyota Tundra attracts the "appearance" crowd, not macho men. (Photo courtesy of Toyota)

source : edmunds

Last edited by Gojirra99; 04-04-06 at 08:00 PM.
Gojirra99 is offline  
Old 04-04-06, 07:59 PM
  #3  
GFerg
Speaks French in Russian

Thread Starter
 
GFerg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: What is G?
Posts: 13,250
Received 58 Likes on 45 Posts
Default

LOL....so is the second time we post the same topic at the same exact time.
GFerg is offline  
Old 04-04-06, 08:01 PM
  #4  
Gojirra99
Super Moderator
 
Gojirra99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 30,054
Received 187 Likes on 128 Posts
Default

Hahaha, it's the third time, it happened once months ago I think

OK, I'm done for the night, you can post away . .

Last edited by Gojirra99; 04-04-06 at 08:05 PM.
Gojirra99 is offline  
Old 04-04-06, 08:15 PM
  #5  
O. L. T.
Keeper of the light
iTrader: (17)
 
O. L. T.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: My little world
Posts: 34,097
Received 335 Likes on 221 Posts
Default

Magneto wins the trigger posting finger award
Attached Thumbnails Target, Toyota: Competitors Try To Trip Up the Carmaker on Its Way to No. 1-screenshot1.jpeg  
O. L. T. is offline  
Old 04-04-06, 08:17 PM
  #6  
Bercasio
Pole Position
iTrader: (1)
 
Bercasio's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Toronto/Vancouver Canada
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

It's funny to see automotive analysts spilling the beans of useless and usefull information, what they don't say is what they don't see.....and that is behind closed doors at Toyota is success into the 21st Century, this is just the begining of everything for Toyota.....Toyota has the patience and persistence, question is "Do You?"...
Bercasio is offline  
Old 04-04-06, 08:57 PM
  #7  
4TehNguyen
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
 
4TehNguyen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 26,033
Received 51 Likes on 46 Posts
Default

if i wanted to look at a pile of crap id take a dump on the ground and stare at it, would be the same thing as reading this article
4TehNguyen is offline  
Old 04-04-06, 10:04 PM
  #8  
wolverine
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (9)
 
wolverine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: California
Posts: 2,224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by 4TehNguyen
if i wanted to look at a pile of crap id take a dump on the ground and stare at it, would be the same thing as reading this article
im with you man
wolverine is offline  
Old 04-05-06, 07:33 AM
  #9  
4TehNguyen
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
 
4TehNguyen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 26,033
Received 51 Likes on 46 Posts
Default

The incentive war and GM's price cuts have put Toyotas at a price disadvantage, by thousands. The report noted that despite Toyota's market share gain last year, North American financial returns were flat. At the same time, Toyota's broadening product line has forced higher advertising spending, and dealers are pressuring Toyota for deeper discounts because of local competitive offerings.
O RLY, price disadvantage, funny how GM LOSES 10 billion and toyota MAKES 10 billion, obviously the price disadvantage is irrelevant, the only vehicles that I know of that have heavy incentives are hte tacoma tundra and matrix, they arent selling as well as other models
4TehNguyen is offline  
Old 04-05-06, 08:52 AM
  #10  
rominl
exclusive matchup

iTrader: (4)
 
rominl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Lovely OC
Posts: 81,670
Received 184 Likes on 143 Posts
Default

competition is always good, i don't see this being a bad thing for toyota, it's a driving force for them to improve as well. though with the fact that they are already way ahead of hybrid and some other aspect, it's very hard for other competitors, even if they join forces (which is somewhat a smart decision too)
rominl is offline  
Old 04-05-06, 11:42 AM
  #11  
spwolf
Lexus Champion
 
spwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 19,841
Received 110 Likes on 81 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by 4TehNguyen
if i wanted to look at a pile of crap id take a dump on the ground and stare at it, would be the same thing as reading this article
exactly!!!!
spwolf is offline  
Old 04-05-06, 11:55 AM
  #12  
cloudnine
Pole Position
 
cloudnine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Maryland
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

The Ford Fusion has soul? Ha ha, not even with Ray Charles at the wheel and Otis and Aretha dueting in the back seat.
cloudnine is offline  
Old 04-05-06, 01:46 PM
  #13  
Trexus
Moderator
 
Trexus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: California
Posts: 4,317
Received 38 Likes on 27 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by 4TehNguyen
if i wanted to look at a pile of crap id take a dump on the ground and stare at it, would be the same thing as reading this article
That was hiliarious what you typed. I'm with you on that. Toyota is doing just fine. As long as they keep up the great work and continuously improve there will be no stopping Toyota. GM lost big time in 2005. The big difference between Toyota and GM last year was $20 billion. Toyota made $10 billion, GM lost $10 billion.

Last edited by Trexus; 04-05-06 at 10:45 PM.
Trexus is offline  
Old 04-05-06, 02:05 PM
  #14  
LexFather
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Originally Posted by 4TehNguyen
if i wanted to look at a pile of crap id take a dump on the ground and stare at it, would be the same thing as reading this article
Might be my new sig
 
Old 04-05-06, 02:14 PM
  #15  
4TehNguyen
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
 
4TehNguyen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 26,033
Received 51 Likes on 46 Posts
Default

doooo eeeeeet
4TehNguyen is offline  


Quick Reply: Target, Toyota: Competitors Try To Trip Up the Carmaker on Its Way to No. 1



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:12 PM.