Gojirra99

GM’s Vice President of powertrain development Tom Stephens has responded to a press release by Toyota touting the Lexus GS450h as the first commercially available rear-wheel-drive hybrid. Stephens says GM has produced over 4,000 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra hybrid pickups — which are of course, gas-electric hybrids with rear-wheel-drive. “So welcome, Toyota, to the rear-wheel drive hybrid club,” wrote Stephens. “We’re glad you’ve joined us.”

Stephens also said Toyota is not the first to use a longitudinal hybrid transmission, as it had claimed. “But as the head of GM Powertrain, I’m absolutely certain that GM has already developed two hybridized longitudinal transmissions, and we’re nearing completion of a third system,” he wrote. “So I’d respectfully suggest that Toyota recheck the calendar as GM’s been in the market for quite a while now.”

He also shed some light on future hybrid plans. “We’re not done developing rear-wheel drive hybrid systems, either,” he wrote. “In 2007, GM will introduce 2-mode hybrids in two of GM’s most popular full-size SUVs, the Chevrolet Tahoe and the GMC Yukon. And in 2008, we’ll make it available on Silverado and Sierra Crew Cab models and the Cadillac Escalade.”

Full response :

March 24, 2006
Toyota First? Maybe Third?
By Tom Stephens
Group Vice President GM Powertrain


GM Hybrid BusSince GM introduced a commercial parallel hybrid propulsion system for mass transit bus fleets in 2003, and the world’s first full-size hybrid pickups in 2004, we follow any news about rear-wheel drive hybrids very closely.


GM Hybrid Bus

So imagine our surprise when we read press reports recently (subsequently corrected) that Toyota was introducing “the world’s first commercially mass produced hybrid system especially designed for rear-wheel drive vehicles.” Further investigation revealed that Toyota told the press at a preview in Hawaii that their new L110 hybrid transmission in the new Lexus GS450h hybrid sedan is the “world’s first longitudinal hybrid transmission.”

Now, I’m sure the Lexus hybrid is a fine car. And Toyota’s PR department never misses a chance to tout its hybrid vehicles, which is fine – that’s their job.

But as the head of GM Powertrain, I’m absolutely certain that GM has already developed two hybridized longitudinal transmissions, and we’re nearing completion of a third system. So I’d respectfully suggest that Toyota recheck the calendar as GM’s been in the market for quite a while now.

GM has produced over 4,000 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra hybrid pickups – roughly twice the number Toyota has set as a sales target for the Lexus GS450h in the U.S. Our hybrid pickup trucks provide the highest estimated city fuel economy of any full-size pickup on the road today, and they deliver this benefit without any sacrifice in performance or towing and hauling capability.

As for buses, there are more than 420 GM hybrid powered buses in 30 cities in the U.S. and Canada. These buses deliver significantly better fuel economy and dramatically lower emissions – up to 90 percent – over conventional diesel buses.

We’re not done developing rear-wheel drive hybrid systems, either. In 2007, GM will introduce 2-mode hybrids in two of GM’s most popular full-size SUVs, the Chevrolet Tahoe and the GMC Yukon. And in 2008, we’ll make it available on Silverado and Sierra Crew Cab models and the Cadillac Escalade.

Hybrids are a key element of GM’s product and technology strategy, which is why we’re introducing hybrid systems on up to 12 models, and targeting higher fuel-consuming vehicles to maximize the environmental benefits of hybrid technology.

So welcome, Toyota, to the rear-wheel drive hybrid club. We’re glad you’ve joined us.

source : leftlanenews, fastlaneblog.gmblogs

spwolf

um, lol, GM hybrids are not full hybrids. They can hardly be called hybrids at all (actually lots of people refuse to call them hybrids). They basically have stop/start systems and thats about it.

wolverine

iTrader: (9)

well gm did it first but toyota did it right. and I thought thosse gm hybrid trucks only got 15mpg???

spwolf

I am not even sure that is true - GM Hybrids can not be powered electrically at all. They are ONLY start/stop systems. You should not really call them hybrids at all. (GM calls it "flywheel alternator starter hybrid system").

As such, its transmission is completly different than transmissions found in HSD vehicle - since transmission in GS450h for example, acts as powersplitting device.

GM is funny.

2006lx470

great nice thanks op

Nas

Can you explain the difference between Toyota and GM's systems? What is a start/stop system?

Thanks

LexFather

The GM truck hybrid should barely be called a hybrid. And its tiring reading GM making another Toyota attack.

spwolf

well, I shouldnt generalize - system GM uses in Silverado (that they mentioned above) is only starter generator system. Saturn Vue is mild hybrid as much as I remember.

Different Hybrid systems

Start/Stop only (starter generator system)
Basically when you come to stop or near stop, it turns off engine automatically, and restarts it back when you hit gas pedal. Thats it. These should not even be called hybrids at all. I think there was legislation in congress on what you can call hybrid system for the purpose of benefits and this definetly would not fit. This system was used by Toyota in small Yaris back in 2000-2001. PSA also used it in some of their cars. Nobody called it hybrid but GM.

Mild Hybrid System
This system has real electric motor which adds power to the internal combustion engine. It regenerates engergy wasted from brakes and stores it in special hybrid battery pack. It then uses this energy when you want to go faster, thus saving gas. It also has start/stop system. It can not power vehicle alone. Most Honda systems use this option, as well as many of Toyota systems back in Japan (including first diesel hybrid - Toyota).

Full time Hybrid System
Main difference between Mild and Full hybrid systems is that Full time system can power vehicle on its own. This means that all of the components have to be enlarged - larger batteries, larger generators, and larger motor. It regenerates energy from brakes, it has start/stop system and it can power vehicle on its own from start. Depending on the system, it can go more/less on electric power alone. Toyota HSD and Ford are using this system. They also use special transmissions that are CVT-like and act as powersplitting devices.

Obviously, all systems will bring some benefit. Start/Stop basically stops wasting gas when idling. Mild hybrid adds extra power which costs nothing. Full time hybrids are the best since you can cruise around in electric mode only - very usable around cities, but they can also do it at any speed (just limited by battery).

GM's silverado is only start/stop generator. Transmissions used in that vehicle really has nothing to do with hybrids.

Nas

Thanks for the info

mmarshall

Nice job, guys....I see you're on the ball. I was going to point out the fact that the GM RWD truck system is nothing but an engine stop-start device, but you guys beat me to it.

Toyota has yet to be beaten in the Hybrid department except for one thing: despite having sold the original Prius in Japan before its U.S debut, Honda actually beat them out introducing a gas-electric hybrid to the U.S. market by about 6 months or so in 2000 with the Insight ( a car I reviewed at the time, before I was with CL , and found MANY compromises in ).
However, even there Toyota can still claim a first. The Insight, and the later Civic Hybrid, were not true hybrids in the sense that the Prius was. The Honda IMA ( Integrated Motor Assist ) was basically a gas engine that cut off at stops once it warmed up and used the electric motor for extra torque as necessary. It could not run on electric power alone....and was known as a " series " Hybrid.
Not so with the Prius.....and other Toyota hybrids ( and the Ford Escape Hybrid, of course, which uses Toyota technology ). They can run on either the gas engine or, like a golf cart, on the electric motor alone....and are known as " parallel " hybrids.
Honda is now catching up some. Its newest Hybrid system is a parallel one like Toyota.

mmarshall

Otherwise known as Series and Parallel systems...see my post. You did a good job explaining the details, though

GFerg

HAHA...funny stuff.


Oh by the way, about GM's Bus comment...Toyota's been offering a Hybrid Bus in Japan since 1997. GM really should do more research before they go accusing people.

mmarshall

That's roughly the time the 1st-gen Prius was introduced in Japan as well. It was sold there a few years before Toyota brought it here to the U.S.....why, I don't know, exept maybe to test its reliability with Japanese consumers before turning it loose here.. This was new technology at the time, and Toyota had a quality image to keep here in the U.S. and could not afford to introduce a new vehicle that could turn out to be a lemon. As is turned out, though, the Prius has been extremely reliable......up on a par with Camrys and Corollas. Like the Honda hybrids, the only real problem so far with these cars ( besides a recall to redo the Prius's engine-comptuer programming ) is that nobody seems to have any idea of what to do with the battery packs when they wear out and need recycing.

F1Driver

Toyota should look into a battery recycling and or disposal program for their hybrids. This would definitely fit in with their green image.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

well, thanks, but i don't see the point.... what is gm trying to say here? being a 6 yr old and trying to fight for the "i am here first" slogan? be my guest man. build a better car before trying to get the bragging right. if i were lexus i can care less about what gm said. i continue to do what i do and i prove people with my cars.

this is so silly.... grow up gm...... get a life, sit down, and make some better cars