Is the 2007 Audi S8 to luxurious?
02-26-06, 11:39 AM
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Is the 2007 Audi S8 too luxurious?
Edmunds.com just performed a First Drive of the Audi S8, and concluded that the car "is a hell of a good luxury sedan, but only a heck of a good sport sedan."
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...icleId=109408#
This is similar to the criticism that some have leveled at Lexus and brings up an interesting question: With a price approaching 100K, would Audi sell more or fewer of the new S8 if they deemphasized the luxury car feeling?
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...icleId=109408#
This is similar to the criticism that some have leveled at Lexus and brings up an interesting question: With a price approaching 100K, would Audi sell more or fewer of the new S8 if they deemphasized the luxury car feeling?
Last edited by jwa; 02-26-06 at 03:18 PM.
02-26-06, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by jwa
Edmunds.com just performed a First Drive of the Audi S8, and concluded that the car "is a hell of a good luxury sedan, but only a heck of a good sport sedan."
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...icleId=109408#
This is similar to the criticism that some have leveled at Lexus and brings up an interesting question: With a price approaching 100K, would Audi sell more or fewer of the new S8 if they deemphasized the luxury car feeling?
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...icleId=109408#
This is similar to the criticism that some have leveled at Lexus and brings up an interesting question: With a price approaching 100K, would Audi sell more or fewer of the new S8 if they deemphasized the luxury car feeling?
2. The car weghs what 4300lbs, maybe more. It will never be a great sports sedan. Too much mass, no matter how awesome the engine is.
3. If I could, out of all the large sedans out, this would easliy be my pick.
02-26-06, 12:14 PM
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That's an interesting question. I've been following the S8 for the past few months. I may be in the market for a car like this. I think it's important for Audi to be different from BMW for example. The M5 is more sporty so that it's likely if you want a 4-door sports car the M5 would win.
I happen to think as good as the M5 is, it's not a sports car at 3900 lbs, I like my sports cars small like my S2000 or at least smaller (than a M5) like a 911S. If I want a sports car I'll get a small car if I want a 3900 lb - 4200 lb sedan I'll want it to be more lux, still sporty but not primarly a sporty car.
The S8 (I think) may appeal to people who are looking at a LS460 but desire more sport but not a full on race car.
I'd be all over the S8, but at this price it should be close to perfect. From my reading it is not. Particularly the tranny which I have read is too jarring (at low gears) and does not kick down as well as it could. And this article says the brakes are not A-1.
I feel the conventional automatic tranny is OK, but the future is the DSG (double clutch auto that Audi and VW already have in lesser cars). I'd have hoped for the 'best' tranny to be fitted in the best car. That's the way I look at it. It's the top shelf car but it's got yesterdays tranny. Maybe in a year or so the DSG will be added to the S8, but as it is now, I'd expect more than just a great car for ~$100K. I'd expect a tour-de-force car with 9's and 10's in most areas.
So for me it's almost there, but I need a bit more to drop near 6-figures on a car.
I happen to think as good as the M5 is, it's not a sports car at 3900 lbs, I like my sports cars small like my S2000 or at least smaller (than a M5) like a 911S. If I want a sports car I'll get a small car if I want a 3900 lb - 4200 lb sedan I'll want it to be more lux, still sporty but not primarly a sporty car.
The S8 (I think) may appeal to people who are looking at a LS460 but desire more sport but not a full on race car.
I'd be all over the S8, but at this price it should be close to perfect. From my reading it is not. Particularly the tranny which I have read is too jarring (at low gears) and does not kick down as well as it could. And this article says the brakes are not A-1.
I feel the conventional automatic tranny is OK, but the future is the DSG (double clutch auto that Audi and VW already have in lesser cars). I'd have hoped for the 'best' tranny to be fitted in the best car. That's the way I look at it. It's the top shelf car but it's got yesterdays tranny. Maybe in a year or so the DSG will be added to the S8, but as it is now, I'd expect more than just a great car for ~$100K. I'd expect a tour-de-force car with 9's and 10's in most areas.
So for me it's almost there, but I need a bit more to drop near 6-figures on a car.
Last edited by rai; 02-26-06 at 12:22 PM.
02-26-06, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
The car weghs what 4300lbs, maybe more. It will never be a great sports sedan. Too much mass, no matter how awesome the engine is.
I think the S8 is a bargain looking at the A8 W12 which weighs a lot more (like 4600 lbs) and has the same HP and not much more TQ. Also (I think) the S8's TQ peak is earlier than in the W12. All in all I don't see much in the W12 to justify it over the S8. And the W12 costs almost $120K.
Here is the best report on the S8 I've seen so far: -->>S8 Driven
Here is a bit about the V10 engine:
S8 and Gallardo. How do the V10s differ?
Throwing out terms like “de-tuned”, it might sound as if Audi simply runs a lesser engine control program, or made simple changes to the S8’s V10 engine to differentiate it from the Lamborghini. However, the truth isn’t really that simple and changes are more complex for reasons you might not expect. In fact, looking more closely at the A8’s V10, it seems de-tuned is a rather inappropriate way to describe the new mill.
A closer look at the two engines shows that the S8’s V10 is hardly the lesser of the two. Some might argue it’s actually the Gallardo that’s de-tuned, with smaller displacement and without FSI. Peer over the power curves of each car though, and you’ll see it’s more a factor that the engines have been optimized for two very different vehicles: a light mid-engined sports car with higher horsepower and more of a peaked torque curve versus a heavier grand touring sedan with gobs of torque.
In the case of the S8, the stroke is identical to that of the Gallardo at 92.8mm, though the engine’s bore has been increased by 2 mm from 82.5 mm to 84.5 mm, thus increasing displacement to 5204 cc over the Gallardo’s 4961 cc. The Audi engine also uses FSI, allowing for a high compression ratio of 12.5:1 vs. the Gallardo’s 11:1.
Together these translate to a 450-hp peak at 7,000 rpm for the S8, as compared to the Lamborghini’s maximum horsepower of 500 at an even higher 7,800 rpm. When torque is compared though, the differences between the two engines become more evident. The S8 hands out 398 lb.-ft. of torque at a lowly 3500 rpm, with 90% of that on tap at just 2,300 rpm; the Gallardo by contrast must run up to 4500 rpm to muster its mere 376 lb.-ft.
Detractors of the S8 are quick to point out that the BMW M5 bests the S8’s power levels by a good 50-bhp. While that may sound significant though, the Bimmer doesn’t hit its lower peak torque of 383 lb.-ft until a heady 6100 rpm, making the power delivery more like the Gallardo’s than that of the S8. On the track, such power is nice to have, though torque tends to be the name of the game on the highway or around town in a large sedan.
Throwing out terms like “de-tuned”, it might sound as if Audi simply runs a lesser engine control program, or made simple changes to the S8’s V10 engine to differentiate it from the Lamborghini. However, the truth isn’t really that simple and changes are more complex for reasons you might not expect. In fact, looking more closely at the A8’s V10, it seems de-tuned is a rather inappropriate way to describe the new mill.
A closer look at the two engines shows that the S8’s V10 is hardly the lesser of the two. Some might argue it’s actually the Gallardo that’s de-tuned, with smaller displacement and without FSI. Peer over the power curves of each car though, and you’ll see it’s more a factor that the engines have been optimized for two very different vehicles: a light mid-engined sports car with higher horsepower and more of a peaked torque curve versus a heavier grand touring sedan with gobs of torque.
In the case of the S8, the stroke is identical to that of the Gallardo at 92.8mm, though the engine’s bore has been increased by 2 mm from 82.5 mm to 84.5 mm, thus increasing displacement to 5204 cc over the Gallardo’s 4961 cc. The Audi engine also uses FSI, allowing for a high compression ratio of 12.5:1 vs. the Gallardo’s 11:1.
Together these translate to a 450-hp peak at 7,000 rpm for the S8, as compared to the Lamborghini’s maximum horsepower of 500 at an even higher 7,800 rpm. When torque is compared though, the differences between the two engines become more evident. The S8 hands out 398 lb.-ft. of torque at a lowly 3500 rpm, with 90% of that on tap at just 2,300 rpm; the Gallardo by contrast must run up to 4500 rpm to muster its mere 376 lb.-ft.
Detractors of the S8 are quick to point out that the BMW M5 bests the S8’s power levels by a good 50-bhp. While that may sound significant though, the Bimmer doesn’t hit its lower peak torque of 383 lb.-ft until a heady 6100 rpm, making the power delivery more like the Gallardo’s than that of the S8. On the track, such power is nice to have, though torque tends to be the name of the game on the highway or around town in a large sedan.
I'm not trying to say the S8 engine is better than the M5 engine, just that in these heavy cars more TQ is good and TQ all thru the rev band is better than high rev TQ.
02-26-06, 12:52 PM
#7
Originally Posted by jwa
This is similar to the criticism that some have leveled at Lexus...
All these car entusiast magazines and critics are skewed to think that Sport is first, everything else is second. We'd all be buying Honda S2000 and Lotus Elises if it were true. Fact is, people like being pampered in their cars with comfort and amenities. The extra horsepower is just an extra perk like a nav system or 19 speaker stereo system. For some, spending $4k extra for the bigger engine (think IS250 and 350) is better than spending $4k on the Nav+ML system...
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02-26-06, 12:58 PM
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The M5 may be sportier, but I would still take this beautiful S8 over a M5 (still ugly) in a second.
If I want real sports, I would go for a real sports car with only 2 doors like a Porsche, Z06 & the likes, a BMW sports sedan won't do
If I want real sports, I would go for a real sports car with only 2 doors like a Porsche, Z06 & the likes, a BMW sports sedan won't do
02-26-06, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilipMSPT
I think people have a good idea of what they want when they purchase a car. If they want Luxury, they'll get luxury. If they want Sport, they'll get sport.
All these car entusiast magazines and critics are skewed to think that Sport is first, everything else is second. We'd all be buying Honda S2000 and Lotus Elises if it were true. Fact is, people like being pampered in their cars with comfort and amenities. The extra horsepower is just an extra perk like a nav system or 19 speaker stereo system. For some, spending $4k extra for the bigger engine (think IS250 and 350) is better than spending $4k on the Nav+ML system...
All these car entusiast magazines and critics are skewed to think that Sport is first, everything else is second. We'd all be buying Honda S2000 and Lotus Elises if it were true. Fact is, people like being pampered in their cars with comfort and amenities. The extra horsepower is just an extra perk like a nav system or 19 speaker stereo system. For some, spending $4k extra for the bigger engine (think IS250 and 350) is better than spending $4k on the Nav+ML system...
So like I said before if you want Lexus-like luxury but want more sporty power and crisper handling the S8 may be the the car to look at.
02-26-06, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by LexArazzo
The M5 may be sportier, but I would still take this beautiful S8 over a M5 (still ugly) in a second.
If I want real sports, I would go for a real sports car with only 2 doors like a Porsche, Z06 & the likes, a BMW sports sedan won't do
If I want real sports, I would go for a real sports car with only 2 doors like a Porsche, Z06 & the likes, a BMW sports sedan won't do
That is with professional drivers.
I am sure these people dropping over 100k on these cars, will rarely use them to their abilities.
Just nice to say you have it, and you COULD do it.
Uhhhh no.
02-26-06, 02:34 PM
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Most car mags and journalists continually try to shove their opinion down people's throats that sport MUST be predominant in ALL cars. Look at Car and Driver ... doesn't matter if they're testing a minivan, family sedan, or sports car, they ALWAYS comment about the handling, slalom speed, performance, and steering feel of every car. Right, because so many people take their minivans and family sedans to the track 
.
I recently sat in and examined an A8L, and to be honest, I'd say it's not luxurious enough . For the price of the car, I expected a lot more in the rear area, as well I expected more features in it.
For me, most BMWs offer a dissapointing amount of luxury. The sportiness of a car definitely is a factor, but for me it's never the main factor, when talking about luxury sedans.
.I recently sat in and examined an A8L, and to be honest, I'd say it's not luxurious enough . For the price of the car, I expected a lot more in the rear area, as well I expected more features in it.
For me, most BMWs offer a dissapointing amount of luxury. The sportiness of a car definitely is a factor, but for me it's never the main factor, when talking about luxury sedans.
02-26-06, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TRDFantasy
Most car mags and journalists continually try to shove their opinion down people's throats that sport MUST be predominant in ALL cars. Look at Car and Driver ... doesn't matter if they're testing a minivan, family sedan, or sports car, they ALWAYS comment about the handling, slalom speed, performance, and steering feel of every car. Right, because so many people take their minivans and family sedans to the track .
.
02-26-06, 07:42 PM
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That S8 is pure sex. Lambo V10, drop dead looks, gorgeous interior, quattro, .......... 
Last edited by bitkahuna; 02-26-06 at 10:38 PM.
02-26-06, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bitkahuna
That S8 is pure sex. Lambo V8, drop dead looks, gorgeous interior, quattro, ..........
Give me one and I'll let you guys know if its too luxurious.