SWEEEEP!!! Consumer Reports most reliable brands! Lexus, Toyota, Scion!!(Lexus Awards
03-04-05, 12:33 PM
#17
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Mmarshall, good job calling the improved reliability for the Korean automakers. Even before this test your experience with almost every car on the road told you that Hyundai and to some degree Kia are climbing in reliability. Great job. 
James
James
03-04-05, 01:09 PM
#18
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Sexy, thanks for the info. I anxiously await to see how detracters say
1. Consumer Reports are written by drunks
2. Toyota paid them off
3. Consumer Reports sucks, like JD Power or JD Power is better (then when the same thing happens in JD Power, the say Consumer Reports is better)
4. over 800k responses is not enough (like they could do a better survey)
And other foolishness. Its really sad to see the Europeans in the rear STILL. This is no longer a new trend, its been at least 4 or 5 years we've seen them at the bottom.
Kudos to Koreans like Mmarshall said.
Finally, people say I or some of us pick on the TL, but now the proof is in the pudding. 2 outta 5 stars, subpar reliablity. I want apologies damnit.
Like Brickhead, going to buy this today.
1. Consumer Reports are written by drunks
2. Toyota paid them off
3. Consumer Reports sucks, like JD Power or JD Power is better (then when the same thing happens in JD Power, the say Consumer Reports is better)
4. over 800k responses is not enough (like they could do a better survey)
And other foolishness. Its really sad to see the Europeans in the rear STILL. This is no longer a new trend, its been at least 4 or 5 years we've seen them at the bottom.
Kudos to Koreans like Mmarshall said.
Finally, people say I or some of us pick on the TL, but now the proof is in the pudding. 2 outta 5 stars, subpar reliablity. I want apologies damnit.
Like Brickhead, going to buy this today.
03-05-05, 12:24 PM
#20
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by flipside909
Not to make this a coast war...but Lexus and Scion were California bred ideas. Great job.
The Scion tC, though, DOES seem to be.....finally.......the youth machine that Toyota meant it to be. In this area tC's are multiplying like pregnant rabbits....mostly, it seems, to people in their 20's.
Lexus may have originated in CA ( I'm not sure....
maybe you know more about that than I do) but it was meant to be a luxury nationwide brand....which it is. There are huge numbers of Lexus vehicles in the Washington, DC area where I live.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-05-05 at 12:31 PM.
03-06-05, 10:56 PM
#21
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Subaru at Top in Quality Survey
Sat Mar 5, 7:55 AM ET
Add to My Yahoo! Top Stories - Los Angeles Times
By John O'Dell Times Staff Writer
Subaru, the Japanese automaker known for its all-wheel-drive vehicles, won the top spot for the highest-quality brand among new cars in Consumer Reports' annual automotive issue.
• Latimes.com home page
• Subscribe to the Los Angeles Times
The magazine's annual survey of product quality and performance, which hits newsstands Tuesday but has already gone to subscribers, ranks Japanese and South Korean automakers tops for quality. U.S. brands are second but fall below the industry average, and Europeans rank a distant third.
Subaru jumped 16 places to become the most reliable automotive brand overall for 2004 models. It's the first time Subaru finished in the top spot in the 26 years Consumer Reports has conducted the survey.
Subaru owners reported eight problems per 100 cars and SUVs sold — an 8% problem rate. Honda was the second-highest-rated brand at 9%, and Toyota took third at 10%. Lexus, last year's leader, fell to fourth with an 11% rate.
In another surprise, the magazine found South Korean automaker Hyundai Motor Co.'s mid-size Sonata sedan to be the most reliable car in the U.S. last year, with just two problems reported for every 100 cars sold.
"That's quite dramatic and shows that Hyundai has really made a big effort," said David Champion, Consumer Reports' auto testing director. "It used to be a joke to have Hyundai and reliability in the same sentence."
Last year's reliability champ was Toyota Motor Corp.'s Lexus GS sedan.
"With Subaru and Hyundai doing so well, we have two newcomers pushing the others to do even better," Champion said.
The magazine's quality ratings are based on surveys from 810,000 vehicle owners. Subscribers were asked to report problems in 17 areas, such as engine or bodywork troubles, for vehicles up to 8 years old.
As for the U.S. automakers, they keep drawing closer to their Asian rivals but never quite catch up. The best U.S. brands — Ford, which ranked ninth, and Pontiac, 10th — had 15 problems per 100 vehicles for 2004 models, more than twice Subaru's rate. Audi was the best from Europe, with a 12% problem rate.
The industry average for 2004 model vehicles was a 16% problem rate, compared with 17% a year earlier.
As a group, Asian brands averaged 12 problems per 100 vehicles, a score unchanged for three years. It wasn't all glory, though. Nissan Motor Co., hobbled by glitches with the Titan pickup, the Armada SUV and the Quest minivan built at its new Mississippi plant, fell well below the average with a 19% problem rate.
Several brands were not rated because of insufficient responses, the magazine said.
Domestic brands fell just below the industry mean, averaging 17 problems per 100 vehicles sold, an improvement from 18 last year. "They've been getting a little more reliable year after year," Champion said.
European passenger vehicle brands continued dragging the bottom with a 21% problem rate, slightly worse than the previous survey's 20%.
Of about 160 models surveyed, the worst reliability scores, with 49 problems per 100 vehicles, were tallied by two behemoth vehicles: Ford Motor Co.'s Lincoln Navigator SUV and the Nissan Quest minivan.
This is the second consecutive year U.S. brands outscored European makes. The European automakers, long plagued by problems with complex electrical systems, have been further hurt by quality problems with their SUVs, Champion said.
Volkswagen's Touareg, for instance, had one of the worst results in the survey, with 48 problems reported per 100 vehicles. Porsche's Cayenne, which shares the same vehicle platform, had 41 problems per 100. BMW's X5 and DaimlerChrysler's Mercedes-Benz M-Class SUV, the Mercedes E-Class sedan and Volkswagen's New Beetle also scored far below average in reliability.
In a separate satisfaction survey, Consumer Reports asked subscribers whether they would buy the same car or truck again. The magazine said it received more than 250,000 responses.
In this category, the Toyota Prius gas-electric hybrid topped the list — a first for a hybrid — with 94% of owners saying they would repeat. Last year's leader, the Lexus LS430 sedan, dropped into second place with a 92% positive response.
Of 32 vehicles on the magazine's "most satisfying" list, 25 are Japanese models, six are European, and only one, General Motors Corp.'s Chevrolet Corvette, is a domestic model.
The survey shows that satisfaction and quality don't always mesh: The reliable Hyundai Sonata doesn't appear on the list of most satisfying vehicles, but the Nissan Titan pickup, which received poor reliability scores, does.
In another first for hybrids, Consumer Reports named the 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid as its best pick for a family sedan. The hybrid uses a V-6 engine and an electric drive system to provide enhanced performance with the fuel economy of a four-cylinder car.
*
(BEGIN TEXT OF INFOBOX)
Reliability survey
Asian automakers continue to lead the industry in reliability, according to a Consumer Reports survey of 810,000 passenger vehicle owners in the U.S.
Top five
Brand Parent company Problems per 100 vehicles
Model year
2004 2003
Subaru Fuji 8 17
Honda Honda 9 10
Acura Honda 10 13
Toyota Toyota 10 11
Lexus Toyota 11 9
Bottom five
Nissan Nissan 19 14
BMW BMW 21 19
Volkswagen Volkswagen 23 19
Mercedes-Benz DaimlerChrysler 25 22
Lincoln Ford 26 31
Some brands, including Hummer, Isuzu, Jaguar, Kia, Mini, Mitsubishi and Porsche, were not rated because of insufficent owner responses.
Source: Consumers Union
Sat Mar 5, 7:55 AM ET
Add to My Yahoo! Top Stories - Los Angeles Times
By John O'Dell Times Staff Writer
Subaru, the Japanese automaker known for its all-wheel-drive vehicles, won the top spot for the highest-quality brand among new cars in Consumer Reports' annual automotive issue.
• Latimes.com home page
• Subscribe to the Los Angeles Times
The magazine's annual survey of product quality and performance, which hits newsstands Tuesday but has already gone to subscribers, ranks Japanese and South Korean automakers tops for quality. U.S. brands are second but fall below the industry average, and Europeans rank a distant third.
Subaru jumped 16 places to become the most reliable automotive brand overall for 2004 models. It's the first time Subaru finished in the top spot in the 26 years Consumer Reports has conducted the survey.
Subaru owners reported eight problems per 100 cars and SUVs sold — an 8% problem rate. Honda was the second-highest-rated brand at 9%, and Toyota took third at 10%. Lexus, last year's leader, fell to fourth with an 11% rate.
In another surprise, the magazine found South Korean automaker Hyundai Motor Co.'s mid-size Sonata sedan to be the most reliable car in the U.S. last year, with just two problems reported for every 100 cars sold.
"That's quite dramatic and shows that Hyundai has really made a big effort," said David Champion, Consumer Reports' auto testing director. "It used to be a joke to have Hyundai and reliability in the same sentence."
Last year's reliability champ was Toyota Motor Corp.'s Lexus GS sedan.
"With Subaru and Hyundai doing so well, we have two newcomers pushing the others to do even better," Champion said.
The magazine's quality ratings are based on surveys from 810,000 vehicle owners. Subscribers were asked to report problems in 17 areas, such as engine or bodywork troubles, for vehicles up to 8 years old.
As for the U.S. automakers, they keep drawing closer to their Asian rivals but never quite catch up. The best U.S. brands — Ford, which ranked ninth, and Pontiac, 10th — had 15 problems per 100 vehicles for 2004 models, more than twice Subaru's rate. Audi was the best from Europe, with a 12% problem rate.
The industry average for 2004 model vehicles was a 16% problem rate, compared with 17% a year earlier.
As a group, Asian brands averaged 12 problems per 100 vehicles, a score unchanged for three years. It wasn't all glory, though. Nissan Motor Co., hobbled by glitches with the Titan pickup, the Armada SUV and the Quest minivan built at its new Mississippi plant, fell well below the average with a 19% problem rate.
Several brands were not rated because of insufficient responses, the magazine said.
Domestic brands fell just below the industry mean, averaging 17 problems per 100 vehicles sold, an improvement from 18 last year. "They've been getting a little more reliable year after year," Champion said.
European passenger vehicle brands continued dragging the bottom with a 21% problem rate, slightly worse than the previous survey's 20%.
Of about 160 models surveyed, the worst reliability scores, with 49 problems per 100 vehicles, were tallied by two behemoth vehicles: Ford Motor Co.'s Lincoln Navigator SUV and the Nissan Quest minivan.
This is the second consecutive year U.S. brands outscored European makes. The European automakers, long plagued by problems with complex electrical systems, have been further hurt by quality problems with their SUVs, Champion said.
Volkswagen's Touareg, for instance, had one of the worst results in the survey, with 48 problems reported per 100 vehicles. Porsche's Cayenne, which shares the same vehicle platform, had 41 problems per 100. BMW's X5 and DaimlerChrysler's Mercedes-Benz M-Class SUV, the Mercedes E-Class sedan and Volkswagen's New Beetle also scored far below average in reliability.
In a separate satisfaction survey, Consumer Reports asked subscribers whether they would buy the same car or truck again. The magazine said it received more than 250,000 responses.
In this category, the Toyota Prius gas-electric hybrid topped the list — a first for a hybrid — with 94% of owners saying they would repeat. Last year's leader, the Lexus LS430 sedan, dropped into second place with a 92% positive response.
Of 32 vehicles on the magazine's "most satisfying" list, 25 are Japanese models, six are European, and only one, General Motors Corp.'s Chevrolet Corvette, is a domestic model.
The survey shows that satisfaction and quality don't always mesh: The reliable Hyundai Sonata doesn't appear on the list of most satisfying vehicles, but the Nissan Titan pickup, which received poor reliability scores, does.
In another first for hybrids, Consumer Reports named the 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid as its best pick for a family sedan. The hybrid uses a V-6 engine and an electric drive system to provide enhanced performance with the fuel economy of a four-cylinder car.
*
(BEGIN TEXT OF INFOBOX)
Reliability survey
Asian automakers continue to lead the industry in reliability, according to a Consumer Reports survey of 810,000 passenger vehicle owners in the U.S.
Top five
Brand Parent company Problems per 100 vehicles
Model year
2004 2003
Subaru Fuji 8 17
Honda Honda 9 10
Acura Honda 10 13
Toyota Toyota 10 11
Lexus Toyota 11 9
Bottom five
Nissan Nissan 19 14
BMW BMW 21 19
Volkswagen Volkswagen 23 19
Mercedes-Benz DaimlerChrysler 25 22
Lincoln Ford 26 31
Some brands, including Hummer, Isuzu, Jaguar, Kia, Mini, Mitsubishi and Porsche, were not rated because of insufficent owner responses.
Source: Consumers Union
03-07-05, 12:46 AM
#22
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by biker
Subaru, the Japanese automaker known for its all-wheel-drive vehicles, won the top spot for the highest-quality brand among new cars in Consumer Reports' annual automotive issue.
In another surprise, the magazine found South Korean automaker Hyundai Motor Co.'s mid-size Sonata sedan to be the most reliable car in the U.S. last year, with just two problems reported for every 100 cars sold.
BTW, here's the link to the news article:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...nqualitysurvey
03-07-05, 03:49 AM
#23
Lexus Fanatic
I've made many posts about what a nice car the 2005 Legacy / Outback is; how nice its general quality and fit-and-finish is, especially for the dollar. And also how well the new Hyundais seem to be built. ( Kia to a lesser extent ). It's nice to see this verified by a source as respected as CR.
Hyundais, especially, have become a real bargain not only because of quality but low price and long warranty as well. But...let's be honest.....they are NOT the cars for you speed and high-G cornering enthusiasts. They are not designed for that.
Hyundais, especially, have become a real bargain not only because of quality but low price and long warranty as well. But...let's be honest.....they are NOT the cars for you speed and high-G cornering enthusiasts. They are not designed for that.
Last edited by mmarshall; 03-07-05 at 03:54 AM.
03-07-05, 05:56 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by mmarshall
I
Hyundais, especially, have become a real bargain not only because of quality but low price and long warranty as well. But...let's be honest.....they are NOT the cars for you speed and high-G cornering enthusiasts. They are not designed for that.
Hyundais, especially, have become a real bargain not only because of quality but low price and long warranty as well. But...let's be honest.....they are NOT the cars for you speed and high-G cornering enthusiasts. They are not designed for that.
I don't see a rush on Subies based on this tho....
03-07-05, 09:49 AM
#25
Instructor
I am pleasantly suprised to see the Sonata as THE most reliable model 
. Keep it up Hyundai! I would consider buying a luxury Hyundai one day when they build cars (and service) as good as Lexus. That day might be closer than most think.
. Keep it up Hyundai! I would consider buying a luxury Hyundai one day when they build cars (and service) as good as Lexus. That day might be closer than most think.
03-07-05, 02:49 PM
#26
Guest
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Great news for SOME consumers. Suburu is really getting some shine here, they have the now shown you CAN do performance and quality. Good news for Hyundai to,glad to see them stay up there.
You can't go wrong with most models with the top 5
Brand Parent company Problems per 100 vehicles
Model year
2004 2003
Subaru Fuji 8 17
Honda Honda 9 10
Acura Honda 10 13
Toyota Toyota 10 11
Lexus Toyota 11 9
Nissan, again eye catching style, eye-catching quality issues. And SHAME SHAME on BMW, VW, Benz and VW, no surprise. And Jeez, Lincoln and Ford don't need ANYMORE reasons NOT to buy.
Bottom five
Nissan Nissan 19 14
BMW BMW 21 19
Volkswagen Volkswagen 23 19
Mercedes-Benz DaimlerChrysler 25 22
Lincoln Ford 26 31
You can't go wrong with most models with the top 5
Brand Parent company Problems per 100 vehicles
Model year
2004 2003
Subaru Fuji 8 17
Honda Honda 9 10
Acura Honda 10 13
Toyota Toyota 10 11
Lexus Toyota 11 9
Nissan, again eye catching style, eye-catching quality issues. And SHAME SHAME on BMW, VW, Benz and VW, no surprise. And Jeez, Lincoln and Ford don't need ANYMORE reasons NOT to buy.
Bottom five
Nissan Nissan 19 14
BMW BMW 21 19
Volkswagen Volkswagen 23 19
Mercedes-Benz DaimlerChrysler 25 22
Lincoln Ford 26 31
03-07-05, 02:49 PM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/04/pf/a...reut/index.htm
(Summary: Japanese big-3 are tops, followed by Domestics, then the Germans in terms of quality)
Consumer Reports picks 'Best Cars'
Ford Focus removed as 'best small car' due to poor crash test result.
March 7, 2005: 12:59 PM EST
DETROIT, March 4 (Reuters) - Japanese automobiles are the true kings of the road, judging by the latest annual "Best Cars" issue of Consumer Reports magazine, which hits newsstands next week.
All of the vehicles in the magazine's list of "top picks" in 10 different categories for 2005 are Japanese. The exception had been Ford's small-sized Focus sedan, but the magazine announced Sunday night that it was dropping the Focus because of a poor crash test result in an Insurance Institute for Highway Safety side impact crash test. (For more on the results of those tests, announced Sunday, click here.)
Consumer Reports said Sunday night that those considering the Focus might want to look at the Toyota Corolla with optional side airbags instead.
Japanese vehicles also score a clean sweep on a list of 21 vehicles that Consumer Reports says it can recommend because they earned "very good" or "excellent" scores in all five major ratings areas it tested.
The recommendations are important since the spring auto issue from Consumer Reports, which accepts no paid advertising or free samples of the products its reviews, has long been seen as a trusted shopping guide by many U.S. car buyers.
Anything that could accelerate the rate of defection away from Detroit's mass market automakers is clearly bad news for the likes of General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. as they continue to lose market share to fast-growing foreign rivals.
The Big Three can take solace, however, from a Consumer Reports survey showing for the second consecutive year that the average domestic car is more reliable than its average European counterpart.
That trend, which gives Detroit at least some bragging rights, was reported by Consumer Reports for the first time in 24 years in its previous auto issue, in 2004.
Reliability results this year were based on responses from Consumer Report subscribers about a record 810,000 privately owned or leased cars and trucks.
Japanese and Korean automakers once again produced the most trouble-free models, with an overall problem rate of 12 per 100 for the 2004 model year, the same rate they have had for the last three years, Consumer Reports said.
It said GM, Ford and the Chrysler side of DaimlerChrysler AG inched closer to the Asians with an overall problem rate of 17 per 100, however. That matched the industry average and was down from a combined rate of 18 per 100 last year.
By contrast, the problem rate for European automakers rose slightly to 21 per 100 from 20 last year.
"Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, and Volvo had more than their fair share of problems. Only Audi came out better than average," the magazine said.
"The most reliable brand overall is now Subaru, which averages eight problems per 100," Consumer Reports said. It noted that Honda Motor Co. Ltd., long a reliability leader, now averaged nine problems per 100.
The single most reliable vehicle in the 2004 model year was Hyundai Motor Co, Ltd's low-cost Sonata sedan, with a problem rate of just two per 100.
The showing "further establishes Hyundai's remarkable turnaround from one of the least reliable brands to one of the best," Consumer Reports said of the Korean automaker.
Ford's Lincoln Navigator sport utility vehicle and Nissan's Quest minivan tied for most unreliable vehicle, it said, with problem rates of 49 per 100. Close behind was the pricey Touareg SUV from Volkswagen AG, which had 48 problems for every 100 vehicles.
(Summary: Japanese big-3 are tops, followed by Domestics, then the Germans in terms of quality)
Consumer Reports picks 'Best Cars'
Ford Focus removed as 'best small car' due to poor crash test result.
March 7, 2005: 12:59 PM EST
DETROIT, March 4 (Reuters) - Japanese automobiles are the true kings of the road, judging by the latest annual "Best Cars" issue of Consumer Reports magazine, which hits newsstands next week.
All of the vehicles in the magazine's list of "top picks" in 10 different categories for 2005 are Japanese. The exception had been Ford's small-sized Focus sedan, but the magazine announced Sunday night that it was dropping the Focus because of a poor crash test result in an Insurance Institute for Highway Safety side impact crash test. (For more on the results of those tests, announced Sunday, click here.)
Consumer Reports said Sunday night that those considering the Focus might want to look at the Toyota Corolla with optional side airbags instead.
Japanese vehicles also score a clean sweep on a list of 21 vehicles that Consumer Reports says it can recommend because they earned "very good" or "excellent" scores in all five major ratings areas it tested.
The recommendations are important since the spring auto issue from Consumer Reports, which accepts no paid advertising or free samples of the products its reviews, has long been seen as a trusted shopping guide by many U.S. car buyers.
Anything that could accelerate the rate of defection away from Detroit's mass market automakers is clearly bad news for the likes of General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. as they continue to lose market share to fast-growing foreign rivals.
The Big Three can take solace, however, from a Consumer Reports survey showing for the second consecutive year that the average domestic car is more reliable than its average European counterpart.
That trend, which gives Detroit at least some bragging rights, was reported by Consumer Reports for the first time in 24 years in its previous auto issue, in 2004.
Reliability results this year were based on responses from Consumer Report subscribers about a record 810,000 privately owned or leased cars and trucks.
Japanese and Korean automakers once again produced the most trouble-free models, with an overall problem rate of 12 per 100 for the 2004 model year, the same rate they have had for the last three years, Consumer Reports said.
It said GM, Ford and the Chrysler side of DaimlerChrysler AG inched closer to the Asians with an overall problem rate of 17 per 100, however. That matched the industry average and was down from a combined rate of 18 per 100 last year.
By contrast, the problem rate for European automakers rose slightly to 21 per 100 from 20 last year.
"Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, and Volvo had more than their fair share of problems. Only Audi came out better than average," the magazine said.
"The most reliable brand overall is now Subaru, which averages eight problems per 100," Consumer Reports said. It noted that Honda Motor Co. Ltd., long a reliability leader, now averaged nine problems per 100.
The single most reliable vehicle in the 2004 model year was Hyundai Motor Co, Ltd's low-cost Sonata sedan, with a problem rate of just two per 100.
The showing "further establishes Hyundai's remarkable turnaround from one of the least reliable brands to one of the best," Consumer Reports said of the Korean automaker.
Ford's Lincoln Navigator sport utility vehicle and Nissan's Quest minivan tied for most unreliable vehicle, it said, with problem rates of 49 per 100. Close behind was the pricey Touareg SUV from Volkswagen AG, which had 48 problems for every 100 vehicles.
03-07-05, 03:43 PM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Great news for SOME consumers. Suburu is really getting some shine here,
03-07-05, 03:46 PM
#29
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Ten of the eleven sedans with Consumer Reports' lowest predicted reliability rating were European, including such high-priced models as the Mercedes-Benz S-Class, E-Class, and six-cylinder version of the C-Class; the Jaguar S-Type and X-Type; and the BMW 7 Series and 5 Series.
03-07-05, 06:48 PM
#30
Lexus Champion
Originally Posted by flipside909
No..it's really:
1. Lexus
2. Toyota
3. Scion
Haha jk. Regardless. That's astounding for a first time player in the game. Scion proves to the world that Toyota is powerful financially and manufacturing quality indeed.
Not to make this a coast war...but Lexus and Scion were California bred ideas. Great job.
1. Lexus
2. Toyota
3. Scion
Haha jk. Regardless. That's astounding for a first time player in the game. Scion proves to the world that Toyota is powerful financially and manufacturing quality indeed.
Not to make this a coast war...but Lexus and Scion were California bred ideas. Great job.