Pontiac GTO. What do u say?
11-11-03, 04:49 AM
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Pontiac GTO. What do u say?
I really like this car. Yeah, it looks like a 10 year old Caddy Catera coupe but man, that inside is awesome and V-8 + RWD makes me cream the pants. FOr 33k. What a steal. Plus u get the GTO image, heritage etc. I could REALLY rock this.
2004 Pontiac GTO
Bobby Goat: Mr. Lutz visits the land Down Under and brings home a bleating great new toy
By NATALIE NEFF
TRADITIONALISTS BE DAMNED
Pontiac won’t apologize for the fact that this car doesn’t look, feel or perform like the car for which it was named. It has a V8, sure, but it doesn’t even come from the same continent. So to all of you looking to the resurrected GTO as the second coming of a sacred old nameplate, too bad. This ain’t your daddy’s GTO, and no, it doesn’t have a hood scoop, not even of the sticker variety with which Pontiac jokingly threatened us. You’re better off picking up any one of a thousand 30-year-old models still spewing fumes around the back roads of this great nation and being done with it. But keep this in mind as you grip that skinny steering wheel, slide around in that seat and lumber around the turns: The new GTO bests that old beast in every noteworthy way. Except one, that is.
Man, that old goat looked good.
The 2004 model, hmmm, not so much. We and many of you, we’ve heard find the GTO’s exterior styling utterly forgettable, if not exactly ugly, and hardly reminiscent of its namesake. Pontiac says that’s intentional. Rather than designing a "retro" car, Pontiac says it likes to think that, had it not killed the GTO after the 1974 model year, the Goat would have evolved to look much like this car today. (Kind of convenient, then, that the General already had a car exactly like it hiding out Down Under.)
LOOKS AREN’T EVERYTHING, BUT THEY’RE A LOT
In fact, the GTO looks virtually identical to the Australian Holden Monaro that forms the basis for this car, save the addition of Pontiac’s signature split-kidney grille. Most of the changes made to the Aussie car when Bob Lutz ordered it up for these shores occurred where you can’t see them, from improved door and window seals to modified knee bolsters and restraints. Oh yeah, and the trunk houses the fuel tank (moved from under the car; too bad for you golfers). Noticeable in its absence: any cladding.
It seems the Excitement division finally heeded all those pleas for clad-free design hallelujah! but alas, took the move to an extreme by doing nothing to gussy up such dull sheetmetal. The car’s flanks have a too-smooth shape, and its rounded-over nose and tail feel virtually undressed. Pontiac insists on calling the whole thing a "distinctive, tautly stretched exterior" that "express[es] the clean, athletic styling direction of Pontiac." Yet not even the car’s aggressive five-spoke rims or deep front skirt and wide-set foglamps can rev up its looks. And speaking of forgettable, nowhere on this GTO will you find a "Pontiac" badge. Oops.
Oh, but that’s intentional, too. Pontiac feels "GTO" speaks for itself, that the name resonates as part of our cultural identity without elucidation. (Who over the age of 40 hasn’t dreamt of owning one?) And yet curiously contradictorily, even Pontiac aims to market the car to "young, affluent males" who don’t necessarily patronize the brand and have "no preconceived notions about GTO."
"It’s important that this car has credentials, it’s for enthusiasts," says Bob Kraut, marketing director for GTO. "We’re going to reach the people that ‘get it,’" though "over time we definitely want to attract the import-minded," he says.
Confounding stuff, to be sure, but marketing-speak often is. What we do know is this: That despite the GTO’s uninspired skin, we "get it." The reborn GTO is a driver’s car, through and through.
"TURN IT ON, WIND IT UP, BLOW IT OUT, GTO"
It doesn’t feel like any other car in the General’s North American lineup, not even the Corvette with which it shares a powertrain. Steering feel is fantastic, not quite razor-sharp like the Z06’s but totally natural-feeling, quick, crisp and responsive. Refreshing, really, given the vague, artificial-feeling systems found in other Pontiacs like the Grand Prix. This system uses a power-assisted variable-ratio rack-and-pinion setup, but thankfully not of the Magnasteer variety. The wheel itself has a nice heft, its leather-wrapped four-spoke shape providing good grip as the steering gets weighty at higher speeds.
On the twisty roads around General Motors’ Milford proving grounds, the GTO simply shines, its chassis almost unflappable over road imperfections and through aggressively driven curves. Its four-wheel independent suspension MacPherson strut and progressive springs in front, multilinks with semi-trailing arms in back hunkers down nicely in the turns and rides almost flat. Its 17-inch 225/50R BFGoodrich GForce TAs give a good deal of grip, too, and help the four-wheel disc brakes 11.7-inch vented fronts and 11.3-inch solid rears and four-channel antilock braking system pull the car to straight stops with little drama.
Its superior body control feels particularly fine when hustled full-on through tighter combinations of turns. Believe us, no ’64 (or 1965-74, for that matter) could even come close to handling like this. The original GTO was known as an asphalt burner, the original muscle car, but in stock trim it did little well in modern terms except accelerate down a straight.
The optional Tremec close-ratio six-speed manual transmission does a great job keeping you in the chunky part of the engine’s powerband. Then again, with such a flat, fat torque curve peaking at 365 lb-ft at 4000 rpm, it’s not asking too much. The shifter itself, however, makes playing with the tranny all the more fun, with a pleasantly notchy action similar to BMW’s in feel. It even has that satisfying spring-back-to-center pop when disengaged. We never got it to hang up or miss a shift.
If none of that sounds like genuine GTO stuff, then perhaps this will: Underhood, and powering the rear wheels, sits an all-American V8 engine. Differences abound, however, most due to the passage of time and the learnin’ it brings more than anything. This engine uses all-aluminum construction and sequential-port fuel injection in place of iron and carburetors, requires 92-octane fuel over leaded gas, and emits but a fraction of the noxious fumes of the engine of old. At least the overhead valves are still there.
Displacing 346 cubic inches, the GTO’s 5.7-liter LS1 V8 nonetheless cranks out more power than the original car’s 389-cid (6.4-liter) engine, with 350 horses at 5200 rpm vs. the Tri-Power’s 348 hp at 4900 rpm. For the super geeky, that amounts to 61.78 hp/liter specific output compared to the ’64’s 54.59, even if today’s car loses out in the power-to-weight department. At 3725 pounds, the smaller ’04 model outweighs the original Pontiac Tempest LeMans GTO hardtop by 599 pounds.
Despite its increased heft, Pontiac estimates the six-speed GTO will run to 60 mph from a standstill in just 5.3 seconds and turn the quarter-mile in around 14 seconds at more than 100 mph. According to the Standard Catalog of American Cars, the ’64 was good for but a 6.6-second 0-to-60-mph time and the quarter-mile in 14.8 seconds.
With all its handling and straight-line prowess, the GTO’s ride never approaches the too-harsh feel of out-and-out sports cars. The car moves smoothly over the road, its taut suspension reading every nuance without bursting a kidney, and transmitting a decent amount of information about what’s going on underneath your seat. The suspension rebounds quick-ly off of bigger bumps, without upsetting the car but never feeling the least bit wallowy. And only a minimal amount of road noise makes its way into the cabin.
But at wide-open, the passenger compartment echoes with a deviously tuned exhaust note, growling out of a true dual exhaust channeled through siamesed twin pipes tucked under one corner of the rear bumper. That grunt is perhaps the most GTO-like aspect of this muscle car built for 21st century tastes.
SITTING PRETTY
Unlike its yawn-inducing exterior, the GTO’s interior speaks fluent sports coupe lingo, with a clean but sporty style punctuated by tastefully inspired splashes of color coordinated to the car’s paint. The color-keyed gauges and door inset panels work well, particularly when paired with matching leather seats. And attention to the details like the contrasting stitching on the steering wheel, shifter and parking brake, the uncluttered layout of the controls and the machine-drilled aluminum pedals imparts to the GTO a true sports car character.
A true sports car for four, no less. Pontiac calls the GTO a 2+2, but the rear seat offers plenty of leg- and headroom for real-sized adults. A relatively low H-point helps out to that end, though the rear access feature Pontiac is so proud of makes climbing in and out of the back seat a chore. Tilt the front seat forward, push a button and a servo powers the front seat forward; flip the seat back, and the same button reverses the movement but it’s sooo slow. A standard manual lever would make the whole process much more tolerable.
GET YER GOAT
The GTO should start rolling into Pontiac showrooms across the country within the month, with all 18,000 annually produced units slated for the States. And if you think all this performance will come with a price, you’re right, but it’s not an outrageous one. Stickers should fall around $33,000, north of entry-level Bonneville territory but less than a fully dressed Bonneville SSEi.
GTO will get only one option, the six-speed, that will add $695 to the bottom line. Everything else you’d expect from a car of its class comes standard: traction control (but no stability control), 200-watt Blaupunkt stereo with six-disc in-dash CD changer and 10 speakers, tilt and telescoping steering wheel, keyless entry, leather interior, floor mats, etc. So far, Pontiac says early sales orders are running 50/50 between the six-speed and the standard four-speed automatic, though the automaker expects final breakdowns to shake out to around 35 percent to the manual.
Second coming or no, this goat’s got the goods.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article...0&page_number=1
Pontiac GTO
Lusty performance disguised in a phone-company fleet car.
BY AARON ROBINSON
PHOTOGRAPHY BY AARON KILEY
December 2003
It doesn't look like the old goat. That's the harshest indictment we can make against this new Pontiac GTO. Yes, there are other, eminently fixable flaws with the Australian-built GTO, and we'll get to those shortly. But we're really struggling to invent reasons not to put both hands together for this supremely comfortable, rear-drive, all independently sprung, Corvette-powered, husky-sounding, highway-inhaling coupe.
Okay, the new GTO's styling is a snooze. But let's put the body lines into context. The car on which this new GTO is based, GM's Holden Monaro built near Adelaide, Australia, was a styling concept for the 1998 Sydney motor show. Holden staffers penciled it in their off-hours without any approval by the management for production, much less any inkling that it would ever be sold in America.
Wish all you want, but GM won't spend hundreds of millions right now to bring us an all-new replacement for the Firebird. We've seen GTO concepts, some based on the front-drive Pontiac Grand Am and most recently a vile orange nonrunning concept car at the 1999 Detroit show that was too ugly even for Hot Wheels to build. We respectfully yawned in GM's face. So instead, we get a decade-old platform derived from the European Opel Omega and Cadillac Catera sedans. But wait. The Monaro fits the template of what a GTO should be better than any other vehicle in GM's current global lineup. It's rear-drive, it's relatively inexpensive, and it's already designed to accept a 350-hp Chevy small-block LS1 V-8. Plus, it's a perfect blank canvas for the aftermarket, which will scramble to develop bigger wheels and tires, body tack-ons, exhaust kits, and the inevitable 405-hp LS6 conversion. GTO Judge, anyone?
Because the Monaro-to-GTO transformation was hasty -- about 17 months, says GM -- there wasn't much time or budget to thoroughly alter the car. The biggest change involved moving the fuel tank from below the trunk floor to inside the trunk -- to help keep the GTO from becoming a fireball in rear-end collisions. The 18.5-gallon plastic-encased tank offers a range of about 350 miles while chopping the trunk almost in half, cutting cargo space down to about two golf bags' worth.
The other downside to the truncated development schedule: The options list contains just one item, a $695 six-speed Tremec manual transmission that replaces the standard Hydra-Matic 4L60-E four-speed automatic. There's no sunroof, no seat heaters, and no OnStar offered. Navigation is by the old-fashioned paper map and driver-supplied compass.
As sparse as it is of optional luxuries, the GTO's cockpit welcomes patrons with leather seating for four adults, detailed with elegant French seams and embroidered GTO logos. "The best seats in any GM product ever" were compliments regularly heard about the deeply bolstered, lumbar adjustable power front buckets. Put to the endurance test during a nonstop, 29-hour beeline to Las Vegas (see "Fear and Losing Near Las Vegas," page 60), the GTO's seats left backs feeling free of fatigue, tailbones coddled, and spinal nerves unruffled.
Other GM cars that fit that description? Um, we're thinking...
The individual rear seats are ergonomically sculpted and scalloped like the fronts. Heads and elbows in the rear get plenty of stretch space. The front seats sprout a manual-release handle that flips the seatback forward, but only just past vertical. Then a separate button must be held while the front seat motors forward and back with the alacrity of a garden slug. More than a few passengers preferred to wriggle into and out of the rear like escape artists rather than wait for the seats to release them.
That the GTO is a foreigner to GM's North American lineup is evident from the driver's seat. The center-console window switches, the thick rubber ***** of the manual climate control, and the European Blaupunkt CD-changing stereo will seem alien to GM regulars. So will the manual tilting and telescoping steering wheel. Every two hours the cluster's LCD flashes a "rest reminder" with a pixilated image of a tree (perhaps Australian eucalyptus?) and a picnic table. How exotic.
The elegant detailing -- including the red-face GTO dials with silver bezels and chrome pointer hubs, the red stitching on the leather-wrapped wheel and shifter boot, the polished metal door handles, and the aluminum-colored ring around the center dashboard stack -- is also a welcome departure from GM's typical Tupperware interiors. We only wish Holden would find some space for a dead pedal left of the clutch.
The corn-stalk shifter provides the leverage to easily shove the heavy forks around the Tremec T-56 six-speed. The detents are mushy and the gates somewhat sloppy, and the Corvette's hated one-to-four skip shift is there for fuel economy, but the stick knows its way and rarely hangs up. For a muscle car, the GTO's clutch is soft, slipping enough during shifts to cushion and flatten out small rpm differentials.
If you want necks snapped, row hard and keep the gas pedal flat. The all-season 245/45 BFGoodrich g-Force T/As are mere shrimps on the barbie of the LS1 V-8. The GTO charges headlights ablaze out of a toxic cloud of tire smoke to turn 5.3 seconds at 60 mph and 14 flat in the quarter-mile at 102 mph, clobbering with big-bore snort new import coupes such as the Infiniti G35 and Mazda RX-8.
Best of all, the GTO vents USDA Prime V-8 grumble out of a genuine dual exhaust (the Monaro's interconnecting H-pipe is there, but blocked off for meatier noise). The pops and thuds of backfires on the overrun sound positively illegal, like you'd pulled the cans and were heading for Paradise Road.
Unchanged from Australia are the PBR calipers with Akebono front pads and Bendix Mintex rears. They scrub off 70 mph in a longish 185 feet, some 20 feet more than the lighter-weight Asians. The brake pedal also feels squishy at bottom, as if it were swinging against seat foam.
With a little more rubber on the spindles (base Corvettes get 275/40 rear run-flats to handle the same horsepower abuse) the GTO would likely be even faster down the drag strip and shorter in the stops. Aftermarket tire retailers are standing by.
The GTO glides above the pavement on struts in the front and semi-trailing arms in the rear with an adjustable toe-in link. Australia is a land of rough roads, so the control arms are stout welded steel and forged iron, and the crossmembers to which they attach are beefy stampings and tubes. It all contributes to the GTO's 3821-pound curb weight, a 550-plus-pound hike above a base Corvette coupe. Elevating the fuel tank into the trunk pushed the GTO's center of gravity in the wrong direction, too.
Subsequently, don't expect the GTO to two-step like a Corvette. There's more sponge in the steering, more roll in the tires, more lean and bob in the body. Yet the GTO pulled 0.88 g on the skidpad, a testament to its fundamental balance and stability. The GTO's handling is really more Deutschland than Detroit. In corners the front end bites hard and the rear tracks dutifully, the understeer staying mostly in the shadows. Hanging the tail out is a challenge, even with all the power on tap; the Pontiac prefers to scrub its excess speed through the front tires. This is a car for getting where you're going, not putting on a stunt show.
Along the way, expect a supple ride over expansion joints and cold-patch cracks, until the tires hit something big. The bump stops are rigid, a compromise to permit the tires and 17-inch alloy wheels to fit into the small wheelhouses without constant rubbing. At least the GTO's stiff, rattle-free body soaks up shakes that would've had the old Camaro and Firebird shedding parts.
Speaking of which, the GTO did shed one or two of its own, including its battery tie-down and the wing-mounted center stop lamp, which fell off when one of its plastic screws sheared.
Additionally, the A/C repeatedly switched itself on and off, the button controlling the passenger-seat motor broke, and the suspension alignment was off enough to occupy a Las Vegas frame shop for two hours.
GM will say that our GTO was an early pilot car. True enough, but the Monaro has been in production for two years, and these are Monaro parts. For the GTO to prosper, GM is going to have to ride its Australian subsidiary hard to keep the quality up.
The GTO is God-bless-America performance wrapped in a sleek and refined package at a price the rest of us can afford. And if you still don't like the GTO, it'll be gone soon. Chief engineer Bob Reuter says the company plans to sell the $33,000 GTO for just three model years at the rate of 18,000 per year. After that, who knows?
Likely, as the song goes, you won't know what you've got till it's gone.
COUNTERPOINT
BARRY WINFIELD
Having visited Holden's operations in Australia, where I drove the Holden Monaro on which this Pontiac is based, I was looking forward with great anticipation to driving a GTO in the States. A sporty rear-drive coupe with a Corvette motor, a manual six-speed, and a sport-tuned suspension sounds like our kind of car. But among the hordes of 10Best vehicles at our disposal that week, the GTO seemed anonymous-looking, with a somewhat sober interior despite the best GM seats anywhere. There's power aplenty, and the exhaust note is great, but real GTO heritage doesn't really extend beyond the V-8's warble.
BROCK YATES
The Pontiac styling department-presuming such an entity exists-has yo-yoed from the sublime to the ridiculous. After decades of festooning their vehicles with grotesque fiberglass stick-ons, they have created a GTO cunningly disguised as a phone-company fleet car. When I first spotted our dishwater-dull, battleship-gray GTO, I thought perhaps a Navy recruiter had stopped by in an attempt to snare a couple of our office interns. Did the dolts at Pontiac even take a peek at the 1964-65 Goats, the first truly vivid and now classic muscle cars? The GTO is a solid-performing Cinderella who lost her shoe before leaving for the party.
CSABA CSERE
Full marks to GM for conjuring up a thoroughly modern Pontiac GTO. A sophisticated chassis with disc brakes, an independent suspension at both ends, and rear-wheel drive is exactly what the 21st century demands. And the LS1 V-8 provides gutsy thrust in the GTO tradition. With the exception of a heavy shifter, all this hardware works well, and the car's $33,000 base price is right. However, the new goat's lines are simple and clean to the point of boredom. Other than beefy wheels and tires, the visuals do nothing to suggest performance and speed. A proper GTO should look butch. This one doesn't.
C/D TEST RESULTS
ACCELERATION (Seconds)
Zero to 30 mph: 2.0
40 mph: 2.8
50 mph: 4.2
60 mph: 5.3
70 mph: 7.1
80 mph: 8.8
90 mph: 10.8
100 mph: 13.4
110 mph: 16.0
120 mph: 19.1
130 mph: 23.4
140 mph: 28.9
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.8
Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph: 10.2
50-70 mph: 10.4
Standing 1/4-mile: 14.0 sec @ 102 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 158 mph
BRAKING
70-0 mph @ impending lockup: 185 ft
HANDLING
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.88 g
Understeer: minimal moderate excessive
ESTIMATED FUEL ECONOMY
EPA city driving: 16 mpg
EPA highway driving: 28 mpg
C/D-observed: 22 mpg
INTERIOR SOUND LEVEL
Idle: 54 dBA
Full-throttle acceleration: 79 dBA
70-mph cruising: 71 dBA
PONTIAC GTO
Vehicle type: front-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 4-passenger, 2-door coupe
Estimated price as tested: $33,695
Options on test car: 6-speed manual transmission
Major standard accessories: power windows, seats, and locks; remote locking; A/C; cruise control; tilting and telescoping steering wheel; rear defroster
Sound system: Blaupunkt AM/FM radio/CD changer, 6 speakers
ENGINE
Type: V-8, aluminum block and heads
Bore x stroke: 3.90 x 3.62 in, 99.0 x 92.0mm
Displacement: 346 cu in, 5665cc
Compression ratio: 10.0:1
Fuel-delivery system: port injection
Valve gear: pushrods, 2 valves per cylinder, hydraulic lifters
Power (SAE net): 350 bhp @ 5200 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 365 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm
Redline: 6000 rpm
DRIVETRAIN
Transmission: 6-speed manual
Final-drive ratio: 3.46:1, limited slip
Gear ... Ratio ... Mph/1000 rpm ... Max. test speed
I ... 2.97 ... 7.2 ... 43 mph (6000 rpm)
II ... 2.07 ... 10.3 ... 62 mph (6000 rpm)
III ... 1.43 ... 15.0 ... 90 mph (6000 rpm)
IV ... 1.00 ... 21.4 ... 128 mph (6000 rpm)
V ... 0.84 ... 25.5 ... 153 mph (6000 rpm)
VI ... 0.57 ... 37.6 ... 158 mph (4200 rpm)
DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 109.8 in
Track, front/rear: 61.4/62.1 in
Length/width/height: 189.8/72.5/54.9 in
Ground clearance: 7.8 in
Drag area, Cd (0.31) x frontal area (23.3 sq ft, est): 7.22 sq ft
Curb weight: 3821 lb
Weight distribution, F/R: 56.0/44.0%
Curb weight per horsepower: 10.9 lb
Fuel capacity: 18.5 gal
CHASSIS/BODY
Type: unit construction
Body material: welded steel stampings
INTERIOR
SAE volume, front seat: 54 cu ft
rear seat: 41 cu ft
luggage: 7 cu ft
Front-seat adjustments: fore and aft, seatback angle,
front height, rear height, lumbar support
Restraint systems, front: manual 3-point belts, driver and
passenger front airbags
rear manual 3-point belts
SUSPENSION
Front ind, strut located by a control arm, coil springs, anti-roll bar
Rear ind, semi-trailing arms with a toe-control link, coil springs, anti-roll bar
STEERING
Type: rack-and-pinion with hydraulic power assist
Steering ratio: 11.8:1-17.2:1
Turns lock-to-lock: 3.1
Turning circle curb-to-curb: 36.1 ft
BRAKES
Type: hydraulic with vacuum power assist and anti-lock control
Front: 11.7 x 1.1-in vented disc
Rear: 11.3 x 0.6-in disc
WHEELS AND TIRES
Wheel size/type: 8.0 x 17 in/cast aluminum
Tires: BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KDWS, 245/45ZR-17 95W
Test inflation pressures, F/R: 33/39 psi
Spare: high-pressure compact on aluminum whe
2004 Pontiac GTO
Bobby Goat: Mr. Lutz visits the land Down Under and brings home a bleating great new toy
By NATALIE NEFF
TRADITIONALISTS BE DAMNED
Pontiac won’t apologize for the fact that this car doesn’t look, feel or perform like the car for which it was named. It has a V8, sure, but it doesn’t even come from the same continent. So to all of you looking to the resurrected GTO as the second coming of a sacred old nameplate, too bad. This ain’t your daddy’s GTO, and no, it doesn’t have a hood scoop, not even of the sticker variety with which Pontiac jokingly threatened us. You’re better off picking up any one of a thousand 30-year-old models still spewing fumes around the back roads of this great nation and being done with it. But keep this in mind as you grip that skinny steering wheel, slide around in that seat and lumber around the turns: The new GTO bests that old beast in every noteworthy way. Except one, that is.
Man, that old goat looked good.
The 2004 model, hmmm, not so much. We and many of you, we’ve heard find the GTO’s exterior styling utterly forgettable, if not exactly ugly, and hardly reminiscent of its namesake. Pontiac says that’s intentional. Rather than designing a "retro" car, Pontiac says it likes to think that, had it not killed the GTO after the 1974 model year, the Goat would have evolved to look much like this car today. (Kind of convenient, then, that the General already had a car exactly like it hiding out Down Under.)
LOOKS AREN’T EVERYTHING, BUT THEY’RE A LOT
In fact, the GTO looks virtually identical to the Australian Holden Monaro that forms the basis for this car, save the addition of Pontiac’s signature split-kidney grille. Most of the changes made to the Aussie car when Bob Lutz ordered it up for these shores occurred where you can’t see them, from improved door and window seals to modified knee bolsters and restraints. Oh yeah, and the trunk houses the fuel tank (moved from under the car; too bad for you golfers). Noticeable in its absence: any cladding.
It seems the Excitement division finally heeded all those pleas for clad-free design hallelujah! but alas, took the move to an extreme by doing nothing to gussy up such dull sheetmetal. The car’s flanks have a too-smooth shape, and its rounded-over nose and tail feel virtually undressed. Pontiac insists on calling the whole thing a "distinctive, tautly stretched exterior" that "express[es] the clean, athletic styling direction of Pontiac." Yet not even the car’s aggressive five-spoke rims or deep front skirt and wide-set foglamps can rev up its looks. And speaking of forgettable, nowhere on this GTO will you find a "Pontiac" badge. Oops.
Oh, but that’s intentional, too. Pontiac feels "GTO" speaks for itself, that the name resonates as part of our cultural identity without elucidation. (Who over the age of 40 hasn’t dreamt of owning one?) And yet curiously contradictorily, even Pontiac aims to market the car to "young, affluent males" who don’t necessarily patronize the brand and have "no preconceived notions about GTO."
"It’s important that this car has credentials, it’s for enthusiasts," says Bob Kraut, marketing director for GTO. "We’re going to reach the people that ‘get it,’" though "over time we definitely want to attract the import-minded," he says.
Confounding stuff, to be sure, but marketing-speak often is. What we do know is this: That despite the GTO’s uninspired skin, we "get it." The reborn GTO is a driver’s car, through and through.
"TURN IT ON, WIND IT UP, BLOW IT OUT, GTO"
It doesn’t feel like any other car in the General’s North American lineup, not even the Corvette with which it shares a powertrain. Steering feel is fantastic, not quite razor-sharp like the Z06’s but totally natural-feeling, quick, crisp and responsive. Refreshing, really, given the vague, artificial-feeling systems found in other Pontiacs like the Grand Prix. This system uses a power-assisted variable-ratio rack-and-pinion setup, but thankfully not of the Magnasteer variety. The wheel itself has a nice heft, its leather-wrapped four-spoke shape providing good grip as the steering gets weighty at higher speeds.
On the twisty roads around General Motors’ Milford proving grounds, the GTO simply shines, its chassis almost unflappable over road imperfections and through aggressively driven curves. Its four-wheel independent suspension MacPherson strut and progressive springs in front, multilinks with semi-trailing arms in back hunkers down nicely in the turns and rides almost flat. Its 17-inch 225/50R BFGoodrich GForce TAs give a good deal of grip, too, and help the four-wheel disc brakes 11.7-inch vented fronts and 11.3-inch solid rears and four-channel antilock braking system pull the car to straight stops with little drama.
Its superior body control feels particularly fine when hustled full-on through tighter combinations of turns. Believe us, no ’64 (or 1965-74, for that matter) could even come close to handling like this. The original GTO was known as an asphalt burner, the original muscle car, but in stock trim it did little well in modern terms except accelerate down a straight.
The optional Tremec close-ratio six-speed manual transmission does a great job keeping you in the chunky part of the engine’s powerband. Then again, with such a flat, fat torque curve peaking at 365 lb-ft at 4000 rpm, it’s not asking too much. The shifter itself, however, makes playing with the tranny all the more fun, with a pleasantly notchy action similar to BMW’s in feel. It even has that satisfying spring-back-to-center pop when disengaged. We never got it to hang up or miss a shift.
If none of that sounds like genuine GTO stuff, then perhaps this will: Underhood, and powering the rear wheels, sits an all-American V8 engine. Differences abound, however, most due to the passage of time and the learnin’ it brings more than anything. This engine uses all-aluminum construction and sequential-port fuel injection in place of iron and carburetors, requires 92-octane fuel over leaded gas, and emits but a fraction of the noxious fumes of the engine of old. At least the overhead valves are still there.
Displacing 346 cubic inches, the GTO’s 5.7-liter LS1 V8 nonetheless cranks out more power than the original car’s 389-cid (6.4-liter) engine, with 350 horses at 5200 rpm vs. the Tri-Power’s 348 hp at 4900 rpm. For the super geeky, that amounts to 61.78 hp/liter specific output compared to the ’64’s 54.59, even if today’s car loses out in the power-to-weight department. At 3725 pounds, the smaller ’04 model outweighs the original Pontiac Tempest LeMans GTO hardtop by 599 pounds.
Despite its increased heft, Pontiac estimates the six-speed GTO will run to 60 mph from a standstill in just 5.3 seconds and turn the quarter-mile in around 14 seconds at more than 100 mph. According to the Standard Catalog of American Cars, the ’64 was good for but a 6.6-second 0-to-60-mph time and the quarter-mile in 14.8 seconds.
With all its handling and straight-line prowess, the GTO’s ride never approaches the too-harsh feel of out-and-out sports cars. The car moves smoothly over the road, its taut suspension reading every nuance without bursting a kidney, and transmitting a decent amount of information about what’s going on underneath your seat. The suspension rebounds quick-ly off of bigger bumps, without upsetting the car but never feeling the least bit wallowy. And only a minimal amount of road noise makes its way into the cabin.
But at wide-open, the passenger compartment echoes with a deviously tuned exhaust note, growling out of a true dual exhaust channeled through siamesed twin pipes tucked under one corner of the rear bumper. That grunt is perhaps the most GTO-like aspect of this muscle car built for 21st century tastes.
SITTING PRETTY
Unlike its yawn-inducing exterior, the GTO’s interior speaks fluent sports coupe lingo, with a clean but sporty style punctuated by tastefully inspired splashes of color coordinated to the car’s paint. The color-keyed gauges and door inset panels work well, particularly when paired with matching leather seats. And attention to the details like the contrasting stitching on the steering wheel, shifter and parking brake, the uncluttered layout of the controls and the machine-drilled aluminum pedals imparts to the GTO a true sports car character.
A true sports car for four, no less. Pontiac calls the GTO a 2+2, but the rear seat offers plenty of leg- and headroom for real-sized adults. A relatively low H-point helps out to that end, though the rear access feature Pontiac is so proud of makes climbing in and out of the back seat a chore. Tilt the front seat forward, push a button and a servo powers the front seat forward; flip the seat back, and the same button reverses the movement but it’s sooo slow. A standard manual lever would make the whole process much more tolerable.
GET YER GOAT
The GTO should start rolling into Pontiac showrooms across the country within the month, with all 18,000 annually produced units slated for the States. And if you think all this performance will come with a price, you’re right, but it’s not an outrageous one. Stickers should fall around $33,000, north of entry-level Bonneville territory but less than a fully dressed Bonneville SSEi.
GTO will get only one option, the six-speed, that will add $695 to the bottom line. Everything else you’d expect from a car of its class comes standard: traction control (but no stability control), 200-watt Blaupunkt stereo with six-disc in-dash CD changer and 10 speakers, tilt and telescoping steering wheel, keyless entry, leather interior, floor mats, etc. So far, Pontiac says early sales orders are running 50/50 between the six-speed and the standard four-speed automatic, though the automaker expects final breakdowns to shake out to around 35 percent to the manual.
Second coming or no, this goat’s got the goods.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article...0&page_number=1
Pontiac GTO
Lusty performance disguised in a phone-company fleet car.
BY AARON ROBINSON
PHOTOGRAPHY BY AARON KILEY
December 2003
It doesn't look like the old goat. That's the harshest indictment we can make against this new Pontiac GTO. Yes, there are other, eminently fixable flaws with the Australian-built GTO, and we'll get to those shortly. But we're really struggling to invent reasons not to put both hands together for this supremely comfortable, rear-drive, all independently sprung, Corvette-powered, husky-sounding, highway-inhaling coupe.
Okay, the new GTO's styling is a snooze. But let's put the body lines into context. The car on which this new GTO is based, GM's Holden Monaro built near Adelaide, Australia, was a styling concept for the 1998 Sydney motor show. Holden staffers penciled it in their off-hours without any approval by the management for production, much less any inkling that it would ever be sold in America.
Wish all you want, but GM won't spend hundreds of millions right now to bring us an all-new replacement for the Firebird. We've seen GTO concepts, some based on the front-drive Pontiac Grand Am and most recently a vile orange nonrunning concept car at the 1999 Detroit show that was too ugly even for Hot Wheels to build. We respectfully yawned in GM's face. So instead, we get a decade-old platform derived from the European Opel Omega and Cadillac Catera sedans. But wait. The Monaro fits the template of what a GTO should be better than any other vehicle in GM's current global lineup. It's rear-drive, it's relatively inexpensive, and it's already designed to accept a 350-hp Chevy small-block LS1 V-8. Plus, it's a perfect blank canvas for the aftermarket, which will scramble to develop bigger wheels and tires, body tack-ons, exhaust kits, and the inevitable 405-hp LS6 conversion. GTO Judge, anyone?
Because the Monaro-to-GTO transformation was hasty -- about 17 months, says GM -- there wasn't much time or budget to thoroughly alter the car. The biggest change involved moving the fuel tank from below the trunk floor to inside the trunk -- to help keep the GTO from becoming a fireball in rear-end collisions. The 18.5-gallon plastic-encased tank offers a range of about 350 miles while chopping the trunk almost in half, cutting cargo space down to about two golf bags' worth.
The other downside to the truncated development schedule: The options list contains just one item, a $695 six-speed Tremec manual transmission that replaces the standard Hydra-Matic 4L60-E four-speed automatic. There's no sunroof, no seat heaters, and no OnStar offered. Navigation is by the old-fashioned paper map and driver-supplied compass.
As sparse as it is of optional luxuries, the GTO's cockpit welcomes patrons with leather seating for four adults, detailed with elegant French seams and embroidered GTO logos. "The best seats in any GM product ever" were compliments regularly heard about the deeply bolstered, lumbar adjustable power front buckets. Put to the endurance test during a nonstop, 29-hour beeline to Las Vegas (see "Fear and Losing Near Las Vegas," page 60), the GTO's seats left backs feeling free of fatigue, tailbones coddled, and spinal nerves unruffled.
Other GM cars that fit that description? Um, we're thinking...
The individual rear seats are ergonomically sculpted and scalloped like the fronts. Heads and elbows in the rear get plenty of stretch space. The front seats sprout a manual-release handle that flips the seatback forward, but only just past vertical. Then a separate button must be held while the front seat motors forward and back with the alacrity of a garden slug. More than a few passengers preferred to wriggle into and out of the rear like escape artists rather than wait for the seats to release them.
That the GTO is a foreigner to GM's North American lineup is evident from the driver's seat. The center-console window switches, the thick rubber ***** of the manual climate control, and the European Blaupunkt CD-changing stereo will seem alien to GM regulars. So will the manual tilting and telescoping steering wheel. Every two hours the cluster's LCD flashes a "rest reminder" with a pixilated image of a tree (perhaps Australian eucalyptus?) and a picnic table. How exotic.
The elegant detailing -- including the red-face GTO dials with silver bezels and chrome pointer hubs, the red stitching on the leather-wrapped wheel and shifter boot, the polished metal door handles, and the aluminum-colored ring around the center dashboard stack -- is also a welcome departure from GM's typical Tupperware interiors. We only wish Holden would find some space for a dead pedal left of the clutch.
The corn-stalk shifter provides the leverage to easily shove the heavy forks around the Tremec T-56 six-speed. The detents are mushy and the gates somewhat sloppy, and the Corvette's hated one-to-four skip shift is there for fuel economy, but the stick knows its way and rarely hangs up. For a muscle car, the GTO's clutch is soft, slipping enough during shifts to cushion and flatten out small rpm differentials.
If you want necks snapped, row hard and keep the gas pedal flat. The all-season 245/45 BFGoodrich g-Force T/As are mere shrimps on the barbie of the LS1 V-8. The GTO charges headlights ablaze out of a toxic cloud of tire smoke to turn 5.3 seconds at 60 mph and 14 flat in the quarter-mile at 102 mph, clobbering with big-bore snort new import coupes such as the Infiniti G35 and Mazda RX-8.
Best of all, the GTO vents USDA Prime V-8 grumble out of a genuine dual exhaust (the Monaro's interconnecting H-pipe is there, but blocked off for meatier noise). The pops and thuds of backfires on the overrun sound positively illegal, like you'd pulled the cans and were heading for Paradise Road.
Unchanged from Australia are the PBR calipers with Akebono front pads and Bendix Mintex rears. They scrub off 70 mph in a longish 185 feet, some 20 feet more than the lighter-weight Asians. The brake pedal also feels squishy at bottom, as if it were swinging against seat foam.
With a little more rubber on the spindles (base Corvettes get 275/40 rear run-flats to handle the same horsepower abuse) the GTO would likely be even faster down the drag strip and shorter in the stops. Aftermarket tire retailers are standing by.
The GTO glides above the pavement on struts in the front and semi-trailing arms in the rear with an adjustable toe-in link. Australia is a land of rough roads, so the control arms are stout welded steel and forged iron, and the crossmembers to which they attach are beefy stampings and tubes. It all contributes to the GTO's 3821-pound curb weight, a 550-plus-pound hike above a base Corvette coupe. Elevating the fuel tank into the trunk pushed the GTO's center of gravity in the wrong direction, too.
Subsequently, don't expect the GTO to two-step like a Corvette. There's more sponge in the steering, more roll in the tires, more lean and bob in the body. Yet the GTO pulled 0.88 g on the skidpad, a testament to its fundamental balance and stability. The GTO's handling is really more Deutschland than Detroit. In corners the front end bites hard and the rear tracks dutifully, the understeer staying mostly in the shadows. Hanging the tail out is a challenge, even with all the power on tap; the Pontiac prefers to scrub its excess speed through the front tires. This is a car for getting where you're going, not putting on a stunt show.
Along the way, expect a supple ride over expansion joints and cold-patch cracks, until the tires hit something big. The bump stops are rigid, a compromise to permit the tires and 17-inch alloy wheels to fit into the small wheelhouses without constant rubbing. At least the GTO's stiff, rattle-free body soaks up shakes that would've had the old Camaro and Firebird shedding parts.
Speaking of which, the GTO did shed one or two of its own, including its battery tie-down and the wing-mounted center stop lamp, which fell off when one of its plastic screws sheared.
Additionally, the A/C repeatedly switched itself on and off, the button controlling the passenger-seat motor broke, and the suspension alignment was off enough to occupy a Las Vegas frame shop for two hours.
GM will say that our GTO was an early pilot car. True enough, but the Monaro has been in production for two years, and these are Monaro parts. For the GTO to prosper, GM is going to have to ride its Australian subsidiary hard to keep the quality up.
The GTO is God-bless-America performance wrapped in a sleek and refined package at a price the rest of us can afford. And if you still don't like the GTO, it'll be gone soon. Chief engineer Bob Reuter says the company plans to sell the $33,000 GTO for just three model years at the rate of 18,000 per year. After that, who knows?
Likely, as the song goes, you won't know what you've got till it's gone.
COUNTERPOINT
BARRY WINFIELD
Having visited Holden's operations in Australia, where I drove the Holden Monaro on which this Pontiac is based, I was looking forward with great anticipation to driving a GTO in the States. A sporty rear-drive coupe with a Corvette motor, a manual six-speed, and a sport-tuned suspension sounds like our kind of car. But among the hordes of 10Best vehicles at our disposal that week, the GTO seemed anonymous-looking, with a somewhat sober interior despite the best GM seats anywhere. There's power aplenty, and the exhaust note is great, but real GTO heritage doesn't really extend beyond the V-8's warble.
BROCK YATES
The Pontiac styling department-presuming such an entity exists-has yo-yoed from the sublime to the ridiculous. After decades of festooning their vehicles with grotesque fiberglass stick-ons, they have created a GTO cunningly disguised as a phone-company fleet car. When I first spotted our dishwater-dull, battleship-gray GTO, I thought perhaps a Navy recruiter had stopped by in an attempt to snare a couple of our office interns. Did the dolts at Pontiac even take a peek at the 1964-65 Goats, the first truly vivid and now classic muscle cars? The GTO is a solid-performing Cinderella who lost her shoe before leaving for the party.
CSABA CSERE
Full marks to GM for conjuring up a thoroughly modern Pontiac GTO. A sophisticated chassis with disc brakes, an independent suspension at both ends, and rear-wheel drive is exactly what the 21st century demands. And the LS1 V-8 provides gutsy thrust in the GTO tradition. With the exception of a heavy shifter, all this hardware works well, and the car's $33,000 base price is right. However, the new goat's lines are simple and clean to the point of boredom. Other than beefy wheels and tires, the visuals do nothing to suggest performance and speed. A proper GTO should look butch. This one doesn't.
C/D TEST RESULTS
ACCELERATION (Seconds)
Zero to 30 mph: 2.0
40 mph: 2.8
50 mph: 4.2
60 mph: 5.3
70 mph: 7.1
80 mph: 8.8
90 mph: 10.8
100 mph: 13.4
110 mph: 16.0
120 mph: 19.1
130 mph: 23.4
140 mph: 28.9
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.8
Top-gear acceleration, 30-50 mph: 10.2
50-70 mph: 10.4
Standing 1/4-mile: 14.0 sec @ 102 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 158 mph
BRAKING
70-0 mph @ impending lockup: 185 ft
HANDLING
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.88 g
Understeer: minimal moderate excessive
ESTIMATED FUEL ECONOMY
EPA city driving: 16 mpg
EPA highway driving: 28 mpg
C/D-observed: 22 mpg
INTERIOR SOUND LEVEL
Idle: 54 dBA
Full-throttle acceleration: 79 dBA
70-mph cruising: 71 dBA
PONTIAC GTO
Vehicle type: front-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 4-passenger, 2-door coupe
Estimated price as tested: $33,695
Options on test car: 6-speed manual transmission
Major standard accessories: power windows, seats, and locks; remote locking; A/C; cruise control; tilting and telescoping steering wheel; rear defroster
Sound system: Blaupunkt AM/FM radio/CD changer, 6 speakers
ENGINE
Type: V-8, aluminum block and heads
Bore x stroke: 3.90 x 3.62 in, 99.0 x 92.0mm
Displacement: 346 cu in, 5665cc
Compression ratio: 10.0:1
Fuel-delivery system: port injection
Valve gear: pushrods, 2 valves per cylinder, hydraulic lifters
Power (SAE net): 350 bhp @ 5200 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 365 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm
Redline: 6000 rpm
DRIVETRAIN
Transmission: 6-speed manual
Final-drive ratio: 3.46:1, limited slip
Gear ... Ratio ... Mph/1000 rpm ... Max. test speed
I ... 2.97 ... 7.2 ... 43 mph (6000 rpm)
II ... 2.07 ... 10.3 ... 62 mph (6000 rpm)
III ... 1.43 ... 15.0 ... 90 mph (6000 rpm)
IV ... 1.00 ... 21.4 ... 128 mph (6000 rpm)
V ... 0.84 ... 25.5 ... 153 mph (6000 rpm)
VI ... 0.57 ... 37.6 ... 158 mph (4200 rpm)
DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 109.8 in
Track, front/rear: 61.4/62.1 in
Length/width/height: 189.8/72.5/54.9 in
Ground clearance: 7.8 in
Drag area, Cd (0.31) x frontal area (23.3 sq ft, est): 7.22 sq ft
Curb weight: 3821 lb
Weight distribution, F/R: 56.0/44.0%
Curb weight per horsepower: 10.9 lb
Fuel capacity: 18.5 gal
CHASSIS/BODY
Type: unit construction
Body material: welded steel stampings
INTERIOR
SAE volume, front seat: 54 cu ft
rear seat: 41 cu ft
luggage: 7 cu ft
Front-seat adjustments: fore and aft, seatback angle,
front height, rear height, lumbar support
Restraint systems, front: manual 3-point belts, driver and
passenger front airbags
rear manual 3-point belts
SUSPENSION
Front ind, strut located by a control arm, coil springs, anti-roll bar
Rear ind, semi-trailing arms with a toe-control link, coil springs, anti-roll bar
STEERING
Type: rack-and-pinion with hydraulic power assist
Steering ratio: 11.8:1-17.2:1
Turns lock-to-lock: 3.1
Turning circle curb-to-curb: 36.1 ft
BRAKES
Type: hydraulic with vacuum power assist and anti-lock control
Front: 11.7 x 1.1-in vented disc
Rear: 11.3 x 0.6-in disc
WHEELS AND TIRES
Wheel size/type: 8.0 x 17 in/cast aluminum
Tires: BFGoodrich g-Force T/A KDWS, 245/45ZR-17 95W
Test inflation pressures, F/R: 33/39 psi
Spare: high-pressure compact on aluminum whe
11-11-03, 04:51 AM
#2
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Posts: n/a
MotoTrend tests Pontiac GTO - Acceleration Inside
Got MotorTrend just now:
2004 GTO tested...numbers are:
0-60= 5.3
1/4 mile= 13.6 @ 104.78 mph
60-0 = 120 feet
600 ft slalom= 63.5 mph
200 ft Skidpad= 0.80
Weight = 3725 pounds
Power:
HP = 350 @ 5200 rpm
Torque = 365 lb-ft @ 4000
Estimated Price = $33K
As a reference:
1968 GTO:
6,549 liter V8
360HP @ 5400 rpm (SAE Gross!)
445 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm
Weight = 3650 pounds
0-60 = 6.5 seconds
1/4 mile = 14.8 @ 96 mph
60-0 = 150 feet
Price = $3,228
Plus u can probably get the Monaro bodykits overseas here to make it more agressive. And it's the Vette engine, slap $50 in there and your at 400hp. Me likes a lot.
Got MotorTrend just now:
2004 GTO tested...numbers are:
0-60= 5.3
1/4 mile= 13.6 @ 104.78 mph
60-0 = 120 feet
600 ft slalom= 63.5 mph
200 ft Skidpad= 0.80
Weight = 3725 pounds
Power:
HP = 350 @ 5200 rpm
Torque = 365 lb-ft @ 4000
Estimated Price = $33K
As a reference:
1968 GTO:
6,549 liter V8
360HP @ 5400 rpm (SAE Gross!)
445 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm
Weight = 3650 pounds
0-60 = 6.5 seconds
1/4 mile = 14.8 @ 96 mph
60-0 = 150 feet
Price = $3,228
Plus u can probably get the Monaro bodykits overseas here to make it more agressive. And it's the Vette engine, slap $50 in there and your at 400hp. Me likes a lot.
11-11-03, 08:05 AM
#4
Lexus Champion
I LIKE it!! Nothing wrong with visual understatement, imho.
I've been hoping for a long time that GM would bring some of the Holden cars up from Oz......................
I've been hoping for a long time that GM would bring some of the Holden cars up from Oz......................
11-11-03, 11:34 AM
#7
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Defniately a fan. Been watching this big coupe for a while, waiting for it to come out. With the massive aftermarket the engine's got, and the Holden overseas, I'm with 1sick. I would drive one anytime. I bet most people who see it are gonna think its a Grand Prix, but when you open it up, there'll be no mistaking it.
James
James
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11-11-03, 11:42 AM
#8
Forum Administrator
iTrader: (2)
I'm a huge Pontiac musclecar fan... my first car was a 73 Firebird Forumla and I dropped the exact big block engine from a 65 GTO mentioned in Sick's original post in it (389 cid with tri power). A lot of fun, a lot of money for a poor HS/college student and a lot of time stranded on the side of the road. I'd still love a 67 GTO convertible (Coke bottle styling) or a 70 Ram Air Judge with a hood tach... probably will get one when I have a house with a bigger garage area.
Here's a good website with year-by-year changes
http://www.ultimategto.com/art25.htm
I plan to go drive the new one just because I'm a fan of GTOs, but don't plan to buy it. I'd be interested in reading what some of the Aussie guys have to say about that car since they've had it for a while.
Here's a good website with year-by-year changes
http://www.ultimategto.com/art25.htm
I plan to go drive the new one just because I'm a fan of GTOs, but don't plan to buy it. I'd be interested in reading what some of the Aussie guys have to say about that car since they've had it for a while.
11-11-03, 01:33 PM
#11
Lexus Champion
For a Pontiac, I give it a big .
Looks better and will perform better than anything else in their lineup. At least Pontiac is slowly improving - first step was taking off all the extra body panels, fins, and other fake aerodynamic crap off their cars.
Finally a new car from Pontiac that I wouldn't be embarrassed to drive. (yeah, I know, real high praise)
.Looks better and will perform better than anything else in their lineup. At least Pontiac is slowly improving - first step was taking off all the extra body panels, fins, and other fake aerodynamic crap off their cars.
Finally a new car from Pontiac that I wouldn't be embarrassed to drive. (yeah, I know, real high praise)
11-11-03, 04:03 PM
#12
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Florida
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Oh yea cool car. LS1 power and a 6speed to boot!!! Downfall, it is still a GM (crap)product and all window motors will fail, trim issues, rear end issues...ect...but I'd love to drive one!!!
11-11-03, 07:55 PM
#15
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
I think the car has major potential. Unlike EVOs and STi's this one has REAL power and room at a great price. The looks are kinda plain but that can be improved a lot with hot wheels first off, and no doubt there will be some nice add-ons for it, perhaps from Australia.
1Sick - I see you in one!
1Sick - I see you in one!