olddog

iTrader: (2)

So, in a quest to put my crashed GS together, i tried gathering parts from the classifeds. I purchased some headlights and 6000k bulbs from fellow member Mr Jokster.
Before transacting with him, we exchanged several pm messages and phone calls on the condition of the headlights. He advised me the ONLY thing wrong was the passenger side auto-leveller was not working. After extensive talk on phone, he assured me that since i salvaged my auto-leveler from my headlight, it would be a direct fit and i would be on my way to putting my GS back together. My instinct told me not to go ahead with this transaction but i foolishly went ahead. I will admit that i agreed to some "wear" on the lenes of the lights. Afterall they were "used". Other than the "wear" which any wet-sanding could fix and the auto-leveler issue, this fellow member assured me the lights were in perfect condition. All over phone.
There was a delay in the delivery of the headlights which i will consider the shipping company's fault. But after paying for storage of my car at the mechanics' i was only more disappointed to see the items which had been sent me.
i will let the pics speak for themselves. But i immediately contacted Mr Jokster within mins of opening the package and left him a vm. he called me back and claimed the items were in tip top shape when shipped. I explained to him i would give him the benefit of doubt (which was really annoying cos the items were the exact opposite of his description) and offered to ship the items back if he issued me a refund via paypal.
he first of all hits me with some story on how he has no funds and might not have any funds until first week of dec.Anyways he said he would get back to me but i made sure that he understood before we hung up that having been in and out, and burnt a few times in the "paypal system", the 1st week in Dec would be too long for me to file a chargeback via visa. Anyone that has dealt with paypal should know that if i escalte the case via paypal, he will definitiely win cos the package was "delivered" and recieved. Thats all paypal looks at. Thats why i ALWAYS use a visa or mastercard when dealing with paypal.
At this point, i still gave this member the benefit of doubt. Now i dont know maybe my awareness/knowledge on the paypal system got him thinking but i recieved a pm about 30mins or so later (not a phone call) that he apologizes for the fib cos he has the money but was only yadayadayada....
He also stated in his pm that i should ship the headlight back and he would refund me. i told him that at this point, i did not want to risk losing everything. I informed him of my reputation on CL and advised him to refund the money and i would ship the headlights back the very next morning. despite two pms(when i saw he was logged online) and several calls/voicemails, he did n
I did not hear /read from him till about an hour ago. he suggested that he had stated his option which was for me to send the lights back and get a refund. all through this he no longer picks my call or reply to pms in due time even when online.
I am not sure what to do here. I believe i can ultimately file a chargeback through visa and get my money back and keep the lights (if i intended to) which would make it a win win for me but am not a dishonest dude. i asked the seller to refund my money and use my 3yr reputation on CL as guarantee as opposed to me trusting his dishonest description of the items and his month old membership on CL.
I know i should have went with my instinct on this transaction. I have no intention of keeping this member's headlight. but at the same time i dont want to ship them and not get my money back.

I normally would not post this on here but he told me in his pm that he spoke to some mods on here(which i hope they would chime in cos he didnt give me their names).So i am posting this to get an insight on what fellow members think or believe is the next course of action on my part and his part.
I quote hime saying ,
"I've talked to quite a few people including a couple moderators here for advice JUST to see if maybe I was being unrealistic, but they all said the same thing, "thats crazy" some even used a few colorful metaphors. One senior moderator even said (and I quote),
"Technically, it would be "sold as is". You are being nice to take it back.
I cannot recommend giving his money back first without the part. Who is to say he doesn't swap out headlights or send a box full of sand."


Now someone please tell me where in the history of CL clkassifieds do u sell clearly described headlights "as is"...makes no sense. I dont believe the mods he spoke to had a clear idea of the situation.
All am trying to do is put my car together. I hate things like this....i really.
Its one thing if the headlights are damaged by the shipping company but they were wrapped nicely and no broken piece was in the boxes.
Unto the pics. keep in mind he said the ONLY thing wrong was the autoleveler mechanism. I am posting this cos he said he spoke to some mods and i told him i would post this not as a report but to inquire what fellow members think is going on/should be done or is ethical.
OR whether its a freaking scam..........
Or whether its sensible to accept this as an "as is" sale when the physical description was clearly stated otherwise.


first of all, broken tab on passneger headlight.This i could have lived with cos the remaining tabs hold the headlight well but nonetheless.


How do u explain the abscence of the "Y" pin/hook which holds the bulb in place. This i cannot live with cos the bulb will never stay in place without that. and there is no way that could have been damaged during shipping cos it is screwed in and was not even in the box.



Its gets better, can someone tell me where the third round "adjuster"/manual leveler is?



check this one out, the missing "adjuster"/manual leveler causes the reflector bowl inside to be shaky/loose cos its held only by the other two. In the picture, i am moving it around with my finger. It should be hled by 3 and stay firm not 2.This also means this headlight will not work/align properly when it is automatically adjusted by the computer



the entire bubble "thingy" has been tampered with and is missing its cover.


Finally, the damn auto-leveller was fine, it was clear that the piece where it clips into to stay in place was what was in fact broken (this is VERY VERY VISIBLE AND CLEAR TO ANYONE WHO LOOKS AT IT). I told him that and then he admits to me that he realised that and that it was the auto-leveler atht are different between the 98-00 and 01-05...bull crap (they are all the same).



so tell, should i go ahead and file a chargeback and get my money back or will this member be reasonable and do the right thing. Also, does anyone think the condition of these headlights are acceptable when stated that it was just the auto-leveler that was defective. I have saved our exchanged PMs between myself and Mr Jokster to support my claim here.

Please advise guys.
i wasn't going to put his name here in this thread but if he has nothing to hide and wants to solve this amicably , then i dont think he should have a problem with other members waying in with their opinons and solutions. Should i start selling stuff on CL without clear and honest description of what is being sold and let the buyer lose out while i claim it was "sold as is"?
Also, he declared the value of these lights as $500(WTF?) on the shipping papers which becomes $569 upon arrival in Canada and causes customs to charge me another $83 for these used lights.
he however suggested that i should ship him the lights and keep the bulbs as a payback for the custom fees. This was a good move and i accepted in hopes of resolving the rest of the situation. but it should be known that i could have gotten these same bulbs for $30 here in Canad which still puts me at a loss of $50. ...Jesus Christ

This a long thread....i have typed this using the annoyance /frustration that i have to pay more storage fees for my car sitting at the bodyshop and will probably not get to drive my GS for another month simply cos of the headlights.


Thanks
olddog

Debonair

First off I am very sorry to hear about this.

AS-IS is fine as long as the description provided is accurate. If way more than the one issue stated is wrong with them, and even that one issue is incorrect, then it is a Fraudulent sale IMO.

Get your money back and get your car on the road. Good Luck.

chrispy

iTrader: (21)

He listed them as pretty much brand new. I was thinking about buying the headlights but he wouldn't take pictures of them for me. So I didn't want to buy them. That isn't even close to brand new looking at the pictures. They are in worse condition than the ones on my car.

jcat_350

that is definitely not cool. I'd look toward a refund.


also, try posting this in the buyer/seller feedback forum.

[ant]

Hm well i have some tail lights on the way from Mr Jokster too so i will let you know if they are as described. He may have not realised the extra issues but as i say i'll see if the lights i get match waht he said.

i think he has been good to deal with and communicate with, and very patient, although it was partially his fault for the delay! as i am in Australia i sent an international draft to him (like a cheque) but he provided the wrong zip code (93710 instead of 93722) so the draft got stuck in the mail for over a month and so i paid with PayPal last weekend and he has sent the lights to me as of last Wednesday.

So i commend him for the patience in that regard and apprecaite the communication. i bought these lights as having 1 broken clip each side (different ones each side though) and some black tint film that can be removed. So ill see how they are when they get here.

Good luck sorting it out though, it is always awkward in these situations but gotta try and take the good with the bad i guess!

LexFather

I am one of the mods he reached out too. What I suggested was for the two parties to start a thread in the buyer/seller feedback forum and to have people "vouch" for each other so Mr. Jokester knows you will return the lights and and Olddog knows he will get his money back.

I don't know either of you personally but I've seen yalls posts and I don't think one is out to burn the other member.

It seems the best thing is for the headlights to be returned and the money be refunded and for both parties to move on.

I have to say thus far both parties have done a great job handling this. Jokester asking for advice in PM (he never put the buyer in a bad light) and olddog posting the pics and explaining his side in a mature manner without anger.

Thank you.

olddog

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the input guys. i appreciate it. Up until now, i still believe there is some understanding to the situation.

I have accepted the fact that i will have to live with the storage fees this has caused and not driving my car for another month or so. And even though i believe the headlights were not honestly described and are way off what was described, I still haven't labelled him a fraud or thief. I believe he is working in his best interest or so.

If i could trust him without much feedback and reputation on CL and still send payment, he should be able to trust me with my active membership, active posts and numerous good feedbacks here in the classifieds.
But with these factors, feedback and rep on board and available on CL between myself and Mr Jokster, the chances IMO that i will send the lights back as soon as i recieve a refund are greater than the chances that i will get a refund after i send the headlights back. These are the facts that am stating my points on. I just dont want to lose some money shipping and then not getting anything back. If i do a chargeback, i still lose the cost of shipping back.
I like the idea of having vouches on here as Isicklex suggested.
A search of my name right here in the feedback forum should should reveal my buying/selling reputation on CL.
I believe i can get quite a few to vouch for me on here:
I just sent a payment of $1000 or a little less to member jonny2k last friday.
I have dealt with Wringo quite few times.
I have met and dealt with members Blackgs300 and GS3.0 here in Toronto.

I have sold and bought numerous times in the CL classifeds.
I hope the above-mentioned members or any other member who is fit to can chime in and vouch for me.

If member Mr. Jokster can have at least one solid vouch(member with quite some history/posts/vouches) chime in here and vouch for him, i will be okay with sending the headlights back and then expect a refund.
Otherwise, i will be subjected to just filing a chargeback and keeping the headlights.
I believe this is a very good and reasonable condition on my part to resolve this situation.

I also hope he chimes in here to state his piece if he feels i have exaggerated, lied or misquoted anything or anyone in this matter. otherwise, i hope we can both work maturely in getting this resolved amicably.

I have PMed him a link to this post just in case he does not come across the post.
I await his reply/post all in good faith.

thanks

olddog

BCP43002

If the headlights were not as advertised then they should be returned and the buyer made whole. Don't know if this is allowed but if either party is not willing to send to the other first, how about sending the headlights and the money to a moderator who will in turn send back to the two parties involved? I don't know how much $$ shipping is involved but maybe split it?

dRo15

iTrader: (10)

That is nowhere to new condition.

Mr Jokster

iTrader: (8)

ok first off this needs to be deleted!!!!! These are a TOTAL different set of lights!


I refuse to read that essay above, however I will say this. I NEVER REFUSED REFUND!

I offered refund immediately, but HE refuses to ship them to me before I refund! NO ONE in there right mind who sells something would refund someone without the return of the merchandise. This is my one and only post, I refuse to continue entertaining this issue.

Mr Jokster

iTrader: (8)

Ive already stated that those were a different set that I sold.

I had more than one set for sale!!! HE only payed $150 for the actual head lights plus shipping... Broken or not, he got a decent deal. I sold them for that price because I new that a leveler was out. at least under my understanding. I was more than willing to cooperate, he just wanted the cake AND to eat it. uh uh....

olddog

iTrader: (2)

You need to sit back and listen to yourself bro.
"broken or not , he got a decent deal". "broken or not"......lol
i don't want my cake or whatever it is. Normally a buyer would send the item back and wait for a refund but your dishonest act and no vouches or reputation ghives me cause to be careful and think whther or not you will actually issue a refund after return. I say once again, if u are a decent person, u would be sensible enought to go through my feedback on here versus yours and understand my position on that.
You dishonestly blatantly lied about the headlights and it doesn't matter whther i paid $10 or $150 or $1000000. we agreed on a price for a certain item in a certain condition. You were dishonest with the sale from the start.


olddog

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

OK guys, I'll make the call here based on what I've read/researched and ask you to take it to PM. You can CC me on your PMs if you'd like

Mr Jokester you edited the for sale post yesterday so i can no longer see what the original description of the headlights was https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=379181 so I have to take Olddog at his word.

I'd strongly suggest Mr Jokester you refund the money now. Olddog, once you receive the refund I'd strongly suggest you package and send the lights back asap. I'd suggest you split the shipping cost.

Mr Jokester, if you don't refund the $$, I will remove your access to the classifieds on our forum.

Olddog, if you don't return the lights after receiving the refund, I will ban you from the CL forums permanently. I expect you to send them with a method that can be tracked.

This ends now guys. Take it to PM. If you have another alternative you work out then let me know, but this one works for me. Your public bickering ends here.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Mr Jokester has not / said he will not refund the buyers funds in exchange for the return of the item.

He is no longer allowed to buy or sell items on our forum in the future. If he contacts you via PM to buy or sell an item (and you are reviewing this message looking for feedback) please forward the PM to DaveGS4.