Kyle's GS300 2JZGTE Project Reboot
09-04-16, 03:02 PM
#63
Report: Unexpected dilemma
The car's been down for the past month due partially to my travelling and partially because the rear suspension components required some attention.
I was playing with my daughter with chalk on our driveway when I glanced up I noticed something odd with my rear tire.
The other side, it would come as no surprise, didn't look too good either:
Concerning to say the least. A tad unexpected as well, as these tires have 3k miles on them, and I directly went from the tire shop to the alignment shop after purchasing these tires. Needless to say, I was disappointed to know that I spent good money on an alignment. I went to the shop that did the alignment to find that the tech who had done the alignment reported "frame bent, cannot align rear" on the notes within the file. To their credit, it was in black and white on my copy (which didn't include the actual alignment measurements) and I simply folded it without a thought and threw it in the glove box. A detail worth sharing with the customer if you ask me, but maybe I'm old fashioned. Upon inspection, there's nothing to indicate the frame is bent or the car has ever been in a collision, but rather what I believe to be laziness / ineptness by the shop.
To me, it appears that rear alignment hasn't been adjusted in... well maybe ever.
We put it on the rack to have a look at the car and see the bent areas - which interestingly, the manager claimed the anchor point on the driver side was bent, yet I saw nothing of the sort. He put the machine on it to see how bad it was:
So knowing that I was going to have it re-aligned, and having been through the process on the front camber adjustments already, I went ahead and ordered parts, fearing the worst. I picked up new toe arms and the adjustment bolt & cam washer from Lexus, and picked up new traction bars (non adjustable, OEM) from rock auto to replace the original units that likely had a a bit of slack in the bushings after a few miles. - Red bar and bar in bottom left corner of image below:
To my dismay, and despite 2 weeks worth of penetrating spray on the bolts, the toe adjustment bolt had seized to the bushing in the arm. Queue the power tools. Many hours, multiple cutoff wheels and sawzall blades later, I got the bolts cut out of the toe arms. I found the clearances even more difficult than on the front camber arms, necessitating the sawzall. The traction arm had a good bit of corrosion on the bolts holding it in, but with the presoak and impact wrench, they came off with little protest. The new arms went on okay. The thing that probably took the longest was getting the old bolts and nuts cleaned up so that they threaded smoothly and easily.
After the parts were back on the car, I put the wheels (with new rear tires) back on and headed over to the local Toyota dealer (nearest Lexus is 2 hours away). They put it on the rack and got it aligned as best they could. They may have not been to familiar with the GS300s of this vintage, because they asked where I bought the bolts for the toe arms. None the less, they said they could get the Toe only to -.06 degrees on the passenger's side. I think spec is -.05. Close enough for me. If I wanted to fuss with it I'm assuming some additional tolerances could be made with some ingenuity. I figure .01 degree isn't worth consideration, considering it was out an entire degree and I managed to get 3,000 miles on the tire.
Live and learn. I would say, had I known what a PITA this suspension would be, I'd have taken the car to an alignment shop before purchasing to make sure these issues aren't prevalent. While the seller didn't tell me there were alignment issues, I only blame myself, as the tires were both corded when I bought the car, and simply chalked it up to them being worn out and the alignment being out. I've spent probably $500 on parts and a solid 15 hours cutting and cursing these issues away. As you can see from the pictures, the adjustments are terribly corroded. I also have an 04 4Runner with 150k miles on it. The adjustment cams are still the original nickel/silver color. This car spent it's first couple of years up in Ohio, and I guess that was enough time to collect some pretty harmful materials down on the suspension bits. My recommendation to anyone considering one of these cars is to check for corrosion on these adjustments, and if found spend the $100 to have it aligned (or attempted) before you buy to have an idea what you're in for. The worst that can happen is your new car will be aligned properly from day one.
The car's been down for the past month due partially to my travelling and partially because the rear suspension components required some attention.
I was playing with my daughter with chalk on our driveway when I glanced up I noticed something odd with my rear tire.
The other side, it would come as no surprise, didn't look too good either:
Concerning to say the least. A tad unexpected as well, as these tires have 3k miles on them, and I directly went from the tire shop to the alignment shop after purchasing these tires. Needless to say, I was disappointed to know that I spent good money on an alignment. I went to the shop that did the alignment to find that the tech who had done the alignment reported "frame bent, cannot align rear" on the notes within the file. To their credit, it was in black and white on my copy (which didn't include the actual alignment measurements) and I simply folded it without a thought and threw it in the glove box. A detail worth sharing with the customer if you ask me, but maybe I'm old fashioned. Upon inspection, there's nothing to indicate the frame is bent or the car has ever been in a collision, but rather what I believe to be laziness / ineptness by the shop.
To me, it appears that rear alignment hasn't been adjusted in... well maybe ever.
We put it on the rack to have a look at the car and see the bent areas - which interestingly, the manager claimed the anchor point on the driver side was bent, yet I saw nothing of the sort. He put the machine on it to see how bad it was:
So knowing that I was going to have it re-aligned, and having been through the process on the front camber adjustments already, I went ahead and ordered parts, fearing the worst. I picked up new toe arms and the adjustment bolt & cam washer from Lexus, and picked up new traction bars (non adjustable, OEM) from rock auto to replace the original units that likely had a a bit of slack in the bushings after a few miles. - Red bar and bar in bottom left corner of image below:
To my dismay, and despite 2 weeks worth of penetrating spray on the bolts, the toe adjustment bolt had seized to the bushing in the arm. Queue the power tools. Many hours, multiple cutoff wheels and sawzall blades later, I got the bolts cut out of the toe arms. I found the clearances even more difficult than on the front camber arms, necessitating the sawzall. The traction arm had a good bit of corrosion on the bolts holding it in, but with the presoak and impact wrench, they came off with little protest. The new arms went on okay. The thing that probably took the longest was getting the old bolts and nuts cleaned up so that they threaded smoothly and easily.
After the parts were back on the car, I put the wheels (with new rear tires) back on and headed over to the local Toyota dealer (nearest Lexus is 2 hours away). They put it on the rack and got it aligned as best they could. They may have not been to familiar with the GS300s of this vintage, because they asked where I bought the bolts for the toe arms. None the less, they said they could get the Toe only to -.06 degrees on the passenger's side. I think spec is -.05. Close enough for me. If I wanted to fuss with it I'm assuming some additional tolerances could be made with some ingenuity. I figure .01 degree isn't worth consideration, considering it was out an entire degree and I managed to get 3,000 miles on the tire.
Live and learn. I would say, had I known what a PITA this suspension would be, I'd have taken the car to an alignment shop before purchasing to make sure these issues aren't prevalent. While the seller didn't tell me there were alignment issues, I only blame myself, as the tires were both corded when I bought the car, and simply chalked it up to them being worn out and the alignment being out. I've spent probably $500 on parts and a solid 15 hours cutting and cursing these issues away. As you can see from the pictures, the adjustments are terribly corroded. I also have an 04 4Runner with 150k miles on it. The adjustment cams are still the original nickel/silver color. This car spent it's first couple of years up in Ohio, and I guess that was enough time to collect some pretty harmful materials down on the suspension bits. My recommendation to anyone considering one of these cars is to check for corrosion on these adjustments, and if found spend the $100 to have it aligned (or attempted) before you buy to have an idea what you're in for. The worst that can happen is your new car will be aligned properly from day one.
09-04-16, 07:09 PM
#64
It's not just the northern cars that the bolts seizes to the bushing sleeves, it seems very common on cl in the past and most of the IS/GS I've worked either the front or back or both were seized like that. I'm sure the first alignment guy gave it a try and just said F*** it once he realized it wasn't gonna happen.
Sure you can look at some badly bent frames and it's obvious, but you need to measure multiple directions from multiple points to verify it's not square, sounds like the manager didn't do that when he looked at it with you.
You are one the right track, soon as I saw your tire pics, I would have asked if you have ever had new toe and traction arms, because toe causes those tire issue very fast where most people always think it's camber wear.
And though your new alignment isn't exactly in spec, doesn't mean the frame is bent by any stretch of the imagination. On these cars the Rear Lower Knuckle bushing sucks pretty bad and will cause alignment and tire issues, and once it's really old starts making the car dangerous to push through corners (feels like the rear of car has to catch back up with the front on exit and then throws the weight back over abruptly) The lower knuckle bushing has additional travel side-to-side to allow for the active rear steering available on the JDM aristos. They install the same bushing weather the car has ARS or not. Figs has the best replacement option for these which is a spherical bearing that will not allow any slop. (If doing at home they can be easily pressed while still on the car using a c-clamp style balljoint press kit)
The upper and lower arms will also introduce the alignment not being able to be perfect, I highly doubt you have a bent frame. But if in the end you do and continue eating tires you can just replace the subframe, it's actually a fairly easy job.
As you've already found these now quite old 2nd gens pretty much always really need 100% new suspension parts front and rear to drive, align, and tire wear satisfactory. I hope you used that GTE to burn the **** out them tires before you put new ones on!
Sure you can look at some badly bent frames and it's obvious, but you need to measure multiple directions from multiple points to verify it's not square, sounds like the manager didn't do that when he looked at it with you.
You are one the right track, soon as I saw your tire pics, I would have asked if you have ever had new toe and traction arms, because toe causes those tire issue very fast where most people always think it's camber wear.
And though your new alignment isn't exactly in spec, doesn't mean the frame is bent by any stretch of the imagination. On these cars the Rear Lower Knuckle bushing sucks pretty bad and will cause alignment and tire issues, and once it's really old starts making the car dangerous to push through corners (feels like the rear of car has to catch back up with the front on exit and then throws the weight back over abruptly) The lower knuckle bushing has additional travel side-to-side to allow for the active rear steering available on the JDM aristos. They install the same bushing weather the car has ARS or not. Figs has the best replacement option for these which is a spherical bearing that will not allow any slop. (If doing at home they can be easily pressed while still on the car using a c-clamp style balljoint press kit)
The upper and lower arms will also introduce the alignment not being able to be perfect, I highly doubt you have a bent frame. But if in the end you do and continue eating tires you can just replace the subframe, it's actually a fairly easy job.
As you've already found these now quite old 2nd gens pretty much always really need 100% new suspension parts front and rear to drive, align, and tire wear satisfactory. I hope you used that GTE to burn the **** out them tires before you put new ones on!
09-04-16, 07:36 PM
#65
Thanks for the input, Mike. I absolutely don't believe the frame is bent at all. The car is as straight as can be. As you stated, the first shop likely found they didn't want to do the work and so just said eff it. Just unfortunate they were deceptive instead of honest. I considered going with aftermarket arms, and in hindsight maybe had I of done so, I could have hit the mark on the toe with additional adjustability. However, I wussed out and went with the factory soft bushings. 
09-18-16, 03:10 PM
#66
Over the past couple of weeks I have been working on installing a Greddy front mount intercooler. The kit itself was very nice, and as far as I can tell, about the only mass-marketed kit for someone that doesn't want to fab their own. I certainly don't blame anyone for doing so. For my circumstances, however, I was looking for something off the shelf.
A few notes for anyone considering this kit:
Drilling is required - the intercooler mounts to feet which are mounted to the lower radiator support (which you drill into).
Fitting of piping is good (cutting of fender liners required)
The kit of hardware for mounting was less than ideal. I found I used a lot of my own bolts and hardware instead of what came in the kit because the fit just wasn't great with the intended hardware.
The instructions are all in Japanese, so aside from a few pictures, the're largely worthless for someone who cannot read Japanese.
You lose the front bumper. I should have I suppose expected this, but it came as a surprise to me that I needed to cut the center out of the front bumper.
You need to cut a couple of chunks out of the bumper cover to allow it to fit around the intercooler
This box put a smile on my face:
The piping
Comparison on stock vs. Greddy kit:
Mocked up:
Originally, I thought I'd be relocating my trans cooler to the location of the prior side-mount. However, there's plenty (ehh, enough) room to keep it where it was already mounted:
Naked, checking fitting and clamp tightness before putting the bumper back on:
All buttoned back up:
Impressions: I've not driven it very much, but feel like the car is more consistent now. Which is to say, I believe the factory sidemount cooler, with limited air flow (didn't have fender cut out) was heat soaking too easily. My seat of the pants monitor says that the car is pulling stronger on the top end. I certainly don't regret the purchase. Some of the items above were a bit surprising. I assumed it was bolt on. Which isn't to say if you're handy with tools you won't be successful, I just wasn't aware that it was going to be quite so involved. For the amount of money, I feel this was an excellent value kit. Anyway, happy to have symmetry back with both fog lamps and to be ready for more boost!
A few notes for anyone considering this kit:
Drilling is required - the intercooler mounts to feet which are mounted to the lower radiator support (which you drill into).
Fitting of piping is good (cutting of fender liners required)
The kit of hardware for mounting was less than ideal. I found I used a lot of my own bolts and hardware instead of what came in the kit because the fit just wasn't great with the intended hardware.
The instructions are all in Japanese, so aside from a few pictures, the're largely worthless for someone who cannot read Japanese.
You lose the front bumper. I should have I suppose expected this, but it came as a surprise to me that I needed to cut the center out of the front bumper.
You need to cut a couple of chunks out of the bumper cover to allow it to fit around the intercooler
This box put a smile on my face:
The piping
Comparison on stock vs. Greddy kit:
Mocked up:
Originally, I thought I'd be relocating my trans cooler to the location of the prior side-mount. However, there's plenty (ehh, enough) room to keep it where it was already mounted:
Naked, checking fitting and clamp tightness before putting the bumper back on:
All buttoned back up:
Impressions: I've not driven it very much, but feel like the car is more consistent now. Which is to say, I believe the factory sidemount cooler, with limited air flow (didn't have fender cut out) was heat soaking too easily. My seat of the pants monitor says that the car is pulling stronger on the top end. I certainly don't regret the purchase. Some of the items above were a bit surprising. I assumed it was bolt on. Which isn't to say if you're handy with tools you won't be successful, I just wasn't aware that it was going to be quite so involved. For the amount of money, I feel this was an excellent value kit. Anyway, happy to have symmetry back with both fog lamps and to be ready for more boost!
Last edited by KyleH; 09-18-16 at 03:17 PM.
09-21-16, 05:35 PM
#67
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I assume you didnt have the wiring problems that im having with my 03 GS. Yours was plug and play for the most part right? My body plugs wont fit into my aristo ecu or aristo motor plugs dont work into the gs ecu.
09-21-16, 06:12 PM
#68
Looking good Kyle I have the same front mount and love it
You're correct up to 2000 it's all plug and play their are companies that custom make jumper wires or you can attempt to rewire and repin ( the pin sizes are also different) to get it to work. Good luck
You're correct up to 2000 it's all plug and play their are companies that custom make jumper wires or you can attempt to rewire and repin ( the pin sizes are also different) to get it to work. Good luck
09-21-16, 07:16 PM
#69
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I just wonder if i could get the complete wiring harness from a 98-99 and put it right in mine or if i would have to swap all electrical componenta out of the 99 as well like window and door actuators and speedo and airbags etc
10-01-16, 09:42 PM
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im also starting this swap right now. My question about the wiring is this, I have a 1998 gs300, how did you guys handle the Immobilizer? I know swapping ECU's in the GE would require reprogramming the keys, how did you guys get around that with the Aristo ECU?
10-01-16, 09:57 PM
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You shouldnt have any problems with it. Keep your factory one in place. Its under the steering wheel and tied into the harness that isnt messed with.
10-01-16, 10:23 PM
#72
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Yes but with the Aristo ECU being different I don't think the immobilizer will allow the car to start. Just like if you changed ECU on the GE motor.
10-01-16, 10:30 PM
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10-01-16, 10:46 PM
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No I am aware of that. But, if you have a 2jz-ge motor and need to change engine ECUs do to a failure the immobilizer will light up. As an example if you drive your car to the junk yard, get an ECU from another car, install it and try to start, it won't start because the immobilizer.
10-02-16, 12:00 AM
#75
Sorry Kyle didn't mean to thread jack and take your thread off coarse showing the progress of your car. Anyone with questions if I have the answer I'll be more than willing to help just shoot me a pm so his thread is about his progress
thats a very good question but I'm sorry to say I don't have the answer but something you should definitely research and see if it would work.
once you do a aristo swap the immobilizer feature goes out the window only some Aristo's in Japan had them almost like a option . So once you swap the motor and ecu you don't have to worry about reprogramming the keys. Hope this helps
If i could find out what wire is what, i could do it all myself.
I just wonder if i could get the complete wiring harness from a 98-99 and put it right in mine or if i would have to swap all electrical componenta out of the 99 as well like window and door actuators and speedo and airbags etc
I just wonder if i could get the complete wiring harness from a 98-99 and put it right in mine or if i would have to swap all electrical componenta out of the 99 as well like window and door actuators and speedo and airbags etc
once you do a aristo swap the immobilizer feature goes out the window only some Aristo's in Japan had them almost like a option . So once you swap the motor and ecu you don't have to worry about reprogramming the keys. Hope this helps