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We have passed the 20K mark already
In BIG rounded numbers
5300 CAR Initial purchase
12K Engine, USDM parts, wiring harness,Resistor pack,Igniter & flywheel & clutch
950 Driveline mods
400 tires
Fee's 400 ( late reg & penalities )
650 muffler & cat work
At least $400 in E bay & other OH BY THE WAYS
Complete SUPRA rear suspension, brakes & diff (over 1K including shipping )
Thanks guys for the explanation on CA strict inspections / emission laws ...
So , there is no way out or run around that is not strictly illegal , rather is a loophole into the system ? Do all counties in the whole of California require you to get those inspections / emission tests ? Or it is only for major counties / cities of the State ?
With all those strict requirements, putting together a car can run your costs pretty high quick. A little bit more than the $20k Vigman had spent so far can PROBABLY already get you a Cali legal stock auto MKIV .
I love visiting the State due to my numerous relatives and friends all over CA but for a car performance enthusiast , it doesn't seem to be a friendly place to be and no offense meant to anyone... it is just my crazy $0.02.
Thanks guys for the explanation on CA strict inspections / emission laws ...
So , there is no way out or run around that is not strictly illegal , rather is a loophole into the system ? Do all counties in the whole of California require you to get those inspections / emission tests ? Or it is only for major counties / cities of the State ?
No problem, gerrb. It's worth noting here to illustrate why a swap like this should even remotely be considered.
No, not ALL counties require emissions *testing* truth be told... because they aren't considered high impact areas. L.A., San Diego and the S.F./Bay Area are all high impact. I don't know all the currently testing exempt counties offhand but it's very likely they won't be exempt for much longer. Mostly it's very small towns outside of the big cities and extremely few.
Regardless of that, all vehicles all over California are required to abide to be maintained according to their original requirements whether they are in a testing county or not. Technically even 1973 and older vehicles though it's rarely if ever an issue for classic owners. I believe cars 1960 and older don't even have original emissions equipment.
Any legal swap involving an entire USDM engine of any make (so long as it's from a car going into a car and not from a truck) apply the same way these USDM 2JZGTE swaps do.... so long as whatever/any/all cats, evaporative emissions, charcoal canisters, EGR or even antiquated air pump technology that came on those original engines are all swapped over.
It's not really a loophole because the ARB/BAR have set up a process to breathe new life into a vehicle this way. They just demand that you don't give them an engine configuration they have never approved before. Easier said than done...
Prior to 1984 (or '86?) or so I believe it was possible to bring a gray market car into Cali, engine and all. This date closely coincided with the introduction of the Federal DOT 25-year import ban spearheaded mostly by Mercedes-Benz. Sound right to you, Mike?
.......
Now, that's the end of it for most mere mortals thinking they can legally swap a reliable and inexpensive 1JZGTE into their SC's or 240's... but it's not the entire end of the line. There is something that is kind of sort of a loophole.
For an absolutely ludicrous amount of money beginning in the $6k-$7k range and going up from there you can have a non-approved engine that was never sold in a USA production car tested at a laboratory with whatever catalytic convertor, EGR, air-pump or other technology you've bolted onto it and hope that your thousands of dollars and your own research prior to handing it to the lab will pay off in an engine that actually passes emissions for the original year it was produced overseas.
There are also a couple of private importers that do a version of this process. Notably Europa, who famously certified old G-Wagens and Defenders for a while. And I think... G&K Auto. I believe a similar process (not in California) was applied to the Porsche 959 for Bill Gates and some others, as well as (I think) the Ferrari F40.
....But no one with a swap car does this. And for all the popularity of the 240SX, no one has stepped up to do this with an SR20DET, by themselves or in a group.
Other than maybe some extremely expensive supercars I have only heard of 1989-1990 R32 GT-R owners in California talking about doing this to the RB26DETT. And I'm sure '89-'95 for OBD1 and '96-'02 OBD2 will fully apply (assuming people wait as long as 2002 models need to become 25 years old).
And Sean Morris who is probably the foremost authority on GT-R's in the country and who was the original go-to technical man Motorex hired to certify their cars might well have something to do with that rumor. But I highly doubt this will ever happen for any of the JDM turbo JZ engines we never got... unless vintage legally imported Soarers and Chasers suddenly become popular in a couple of years the way old Skylines have as collectables.
But it's still a prohibitively expensive roll of the dice process to even attempt fully certifying a modified non-USA engine. Not when you can spend ludicrous money already on a USDM 2JZGTE swap or possibly just buy an original MKIV TT Supra. There is no guarantee that the engine in question will get a pass and you'd need some serious knowledge of emissions systems to have a chance at this in the first place.
Other than CNG or LPG conversions I can't think of another thing that can be remotely called a loophole.
Originally Posted by gerrb
With all those strict requirements, putting together a car can run your costs pretty high quick. A little bit more than the $20k Vigman had spent so far can PROBABLY already get you a Cali legal stock auto MKIV .
I love visiting the State due to my numerous relatives and friends all over CA but for a car performance enthusiast , it doesn't seem to be a friendly place to be and no offense meant to anyone... it is just my crazy $0.02.
I am sure the cost is at least $20k if not more when all is said and done. Between vigman's experience to date as he's almost at the finish line and all of your experience working on your 2JZGTE cars... I have no doubt. I will reluctantly do a tally of my own records later on but at the moment I am content to be ignorant, for the sake of my sanity, of my up to date figure.
I feel the same way you do when it comes to cars in Cali, gerrb, but you'd be surprised at just how many modified cars you do see around here. Sure, there are plenty of expensive European models and Italian exotics and even more riced out Honda fart-buckets but you do have plenty of people with V8 or turbo cars puttering around at any given time.
It's just that you won't have less than a nightmare if you fall in love with a great chassis you can afford that was given an underpowered engine for USA sales but a great engine for Japan. Or Germany or the UK or what have you.
The impressive cars out here are generally platforms that already had the turbo engine, stick-shift and AWD or 300-400hp V8 from the start. Even if it was a Federal 49-state car brought in by a second or third owner (and yes, that's very legal here. I did it myself and it's no different to smog than a Cali-original car with more smog equipment from the factory. Key is that it has to have been sold in the USA originally with that engine). It's also what makes Cali resale prices for these kinds of cars stay notably or significantly higher than in the rest of the country. Sure, modifications are tricky sometimes but in original stock form they are legal to smog and register.
And unless you're looking for something very old with a lot less than 300hp (crank). You need to start at around $14k-$16k to get into anything RWD/AWD. I just barely didn't have that figure to work with a few years ago and I looked at everything that fit the bill that wasn't FWD. After three months and several almost-had-it deals I gave up and randomly happened upon my SC.
Somehow that general figure is what you need to start at to get in the door.
In 2010 in Cali, everything below that figure appeared to be either FWD or a major swap project. I don't think much has changed. However AFTER that year manufacturers started improving existing performance models up to a better standard (*cough* Mustang) and started releasing several models that are very appealing. Your WRX/Evo market was one of the few stalwarts.
Among the less expensive older models to choose from, the SC was the only standout that was legal swap capable I wanted to consider. I didn't even know if I'd do it when I bought it but I did love driving it.
-New 2JZGTE EVAP VSV came in
-New 4300K Philips HID system came in from xenondepot
Where before I mentioned a company called Philipshidkits with whom I had good dealings in 2011... I highly advise everyone to STAY AWAY from them today. No one is steering the ship at this point and I am waiting the required 15 days (since they gave me no shipping estimate) to re-file a transaction dispute against them with my bank. Zero communication. Disconnected phone number. Ignoring my requests to cancel my order. Their product has been VERY good and foolproof but now I can't even get hold of them.
These other folks have a working phone number and I was able to maintain good communication with them. Night and day experience.
The new system has to be installed this afternoon.
Great info , thanks. Now, you said that not all counties / cities have inspections / emissions. Maybe some take advantage of those places.
Like here in GA, only 13 metro Atlanta Counties need emissions yearly for vehicles less than 25 years old. Many will just use an address from a non emission county and can register any vehicle without emission. That is what I mean when I say "loophole into the system". It is not illegal as long as you can show proof that you have affinity with that address that you used for the registration of the vehicle.
^^ Yes, absolutely. If you have legitimate proof that is absolutely not illegal. But if you're living and driving in another area entirely it might get a funny look from an officer. Still, technically if you have a legitimate connection to that address it's not illegal. I know this is done in GA and in many other states. It's been done here by some in Cali too. Sometimes by registering in whatever obscure counties don't require testing but more commonly I have heard of people registering their swapped cars in Arizona.
The latter option has come under more scrutiny in recent years. I'm not exactly sure how beyond an officer pulling over a car that LOOKS modified and assuming that there must be some modification that isn't allowed if he sees an AZ registration... and maybe a Cali driver's license to go with it.
Interestingly there are a number of cars with out of state plates driving around. Technically they are supposed to be registered here if you're living and working here. I mean plates from everywhere. I see Florida plates frequently. Friends of mine still have out of state plates without issue.
But few cars with out of state plates are significantly modified or factory performance specials. They're usually boring econoboxes, sedans and suvs that don't draw attention.
But I am sure there have been and still are quite a few people who have tried this in smog exempt counties. Trouble is how those exempt counties are disappearing. When the new testing procedures were put in place for cars and trucks 2002 and newer it allows an emissions test to take place just through the OBD2 port-- no roller dyno and tailpipe analyzer required. It brings down the cost of testing dramatically.
If those little counties have resisted requiring emissions testing due to the cost (and maybe because they don't really have smog like L.A.), this would now present a much easier shoo-in to require general emissions testing everywhere.
I know we're talking mostly about OBD1 cars and much earlier OBD2 cars but what this might mean is that those get included in the previously exempt areas too and have to locate their nearest dyno equipped testing station.
Yes, you can currently try registering in one of the exempt counties if you can legitimately prove you have some address there or maybe even a P.O. Box (??) but in general it's getting harder to do these things at least in Cali.
I tend to think GA, FL, AL, SC and maybe NC are more reasonable in general.
Then again... don't make your car look and sound like it belongs in an F&F film and don't drive like you're in an episode of Initial D and use your signals and you pretty much blend in. Especially in an SC
Craig… Just wanted to say THANK YOU on the INTAKE HOSE FROM HELL.. We did get it on yesterday with a little bodging and assistance from Mr Black RTV and Mr Electrical tape and it looks FACTORY from 6 inches…
I can't say I'm happy that not one but two older intake hoses have been this problematic :/ I would have tried using those myself on my car with the same results. I gathered from out call that #2 worked with some sealer applied. But at this point it's probably best to purchase a new one for future use. I think I will too, after I find another spare EGR VSV.
This hose saga has been a nightmare I haven't wished for you and David.
Oh for crying out loud...! I read the latest update. A step backwards for them and unnecessary and inexplicable setback for you and David. Replying shortly.
The last couple of new VSVs for the twin turbo system came in today from Amayama, plus a new vacuum plug with three-way splitter for the intake manifold.
I am still going to order a couple of new examples of the VSVs I already have which came with the USDM twin system to keep in reserve. Who knows how long 150k mile VSVs will last. Nonetheless, another chunk of the parts are now corralled.
Next will be some more standard maintenance for the car: still holding off on the A/C evap core and tx valve replacement. Looks like I will shell out for a new heater control valve after all as my Four Seasons has worked... but is leaking. Maybe some of those are better than others. I'll pick up another one for $30 and perform the same fix to my old HCV just to keep a backup in reserve.
Also, replacement front seatbelts are coming in thanks to Aliga! Will make a decision on sending my old ones to SSnake Oyl Products for brand new replacement belts when I get them.
The new 500/250 Hypercoil springs haven't arrived yet but that will be another project.
It also turns out that for the swap/conversion I will need a 2JZGTE oil dipstick assembly which has a different level reading than my GE dipstick.
VA scares me, frankly. NY is a great place and I love the city but it's not where I'd want to live all the time. CA is a really great place to live and very diverse (and the desert and mountains!) but we do have plenty of weird contradictions here. Still, there is so much opportunity and so much you can create for yourself here it outweighs these negatives. Housing has become an issue though if you're a renter.
But the smog and anti-modification laws are annoying for sure. More because of the lack of clarity than the restrictions themselves.
^^ Yep. Pre-76 cars are independent of these rules Mostly. But probably not the best or safest choice for a daily driver in our traffic. I see plenty on surface streets though. Classics of all years are everywhere here!
I've heard I can apply by mail for the special black historic/antique license plate even without a pre-76 car. I really want one of those for my SC
03-30-15, 07:02 AM
? Do all counties in the whole of California require you to get those inspections / emission tests ? Or it is only for major counties / cities of the State ?
