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Kahn's USDM 2JZGTE swap thread (aka The "Not Easy" Way)

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Old 03-24-15, 06:48 PM
  #61  
vigman
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In my experience the BULBS go prior to the ballast ( Assuming NOT E BAY CHINA BALLASTS )
That being said I keep new bulbs & ballasts on hand...
My Z & G use the same " FORM" balasts & bulbs
Old 03-24-15, 07:35 PM
  #62  
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^^ I assumed that bulbs would go first, yes. I bought mine as a complete kit from PhillipsHIDkits.com in 2011. It's all Phillips stuff but I did wonder if they were at least partially sourced from China. But the storefront is still there as of two days ago and still had my user account. I was able to order the exact same ballasts brand new. My bulbs are fine. Four years before an issue is okay with me. Especially for an aftermarket solution.

I just wish they'd get here sooner. Apparently they hadn't shipped just yet so I'll probably carry some stock 55w halogens with me just in case they completely fail.

Edit: A few days after this posting I realized that this company Philipshidkits.com has likely gone defunct. They took my money but have offered zero communication after several communication attempts, including to their listed phone number which is out of order. I've tried to cancel with them and filed a dispute to the charge with my bank. I no longer recommend this company.

I ended up buying an entirely new HID kit from another company I could actually get on the phone.

Last edited by KahnBB6; 03-28-15 at 12:12 AM. Reason: Update.
Old 03-25-15, 05:22 AM
  #63  
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4 years on an HID is pretty good… if it's the BULB the area in the glass " pea" will be a smoky color….
Old 03-25-15, 09:33 AM
  #64  
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sorry if it is a bit late, but I think you should go with the GTE oil pump and definitely get OEM.
The front main seal blowout happens on GTE's as well, not just GE's with GTE oil pumps. Reputable engine builders in Aus say its more to do with lack of crank ventilation + high horsepower than oil pressure from the pump.
Old 03-25-15, 01:19 PM
  #65  
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Not too late at all, czar07. I've been too tied up with buying VSVs and other electronic parts lately to dive into the oil and water pumps.

Hmm... I read so much stating the pressure was too much. Seems a lot of things on JZ engines and R154's generate high oil pressure with very high horsepower.

I'm going to have proper PCV connections up top and the horsepower will probably only ever be between 300whp-360whp. Maybe 400whp-450whp down the road. Will that be sufficient to protect my engine from a front seal blowout?

And you don't trust the Aisin oil pump, do you?
Old 03-25-15, 01:35 PM
  #66  
Ali SC3
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If its Aisin its the original kind at least for the waterpump I would assume the same with the oil pump not 100% sure on the oil pump as mine is original.
Also while I would say get a 96+ ge oil pump, you will need to get a GTE crank gear. the vvti crank gear has too many teeth and will not read correctly.

EFI2 would be under the hood but not even sure we have a spot for it or not or if we already have that cause usually the na car's just have it on one circuit. I would just take EFI 1 as an input to a new 30 amp relay with a 25 amp fuse connected to battery, call it EFI2, and then run that to the fuel pump ecu.
if there is a spot already for it in the fusebox or a blank spot, you could just run wires and retrofit it or do it externally like you would an HID relay, but that wont look as stock and guessing you are going to try the original way first, so start with a look in the fusebox, under the hood, the names are on the cover.

Last edited by Ali SC3; 03-25-15 at 01:42 PM.
Old 03-26-15, 01:41 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Ali SC3
If its Aisin its the original kind at least for the waterpump I would assume the same with the oil pump not 100% sure on the oil pump as mine is original.
Also while I would say get a 96+ ge oil pump, you will need to get a GTE crank gear. the vvti crank gear has too many teeth and will not read correctly.
Ali, I've found some decent prices for the GTE oil pump. It's maybe $50 difference between the two. I think I will hold off a bit longer and focus on the other remaining parts. But the crank gear tooth issue I was not aware of. I almost bought a GE VVT-i crank gear the other day.

So without question I need the GTE non-vvt gear?


Originally Posted by Ali SC3
EFI2 would be under the hood but not even sure we have a spot for it or not or if we already have that cause usually the na car's just have it on one circuit. I would just take EFI 1 as an input to a new 30 amp relay with a 25 amp fuse connected to battery, call it EFI2, and then run that to the fuel pump ecu.
if there is a spot already for it in the fusebox or a blank spot, you could just run wires and retrofit it or do it externally like you would an HID relay, but that wont look as stock and guessing you are going to try the original way first, so start with a look in the fusebox, under the hood, the names are on the cover.
^^ Thank you for this advice! That's what I needed to start testing the waters with the pump conversion. I'm still going to hold off on the full conversion for now but I will investigate the EFI2 wiring and see what my approach will be.

I might figure that out and pre-run the wire in some insulation heat shrink tubing for now and tackle the fuel ECU and pump swap at a later time.
Old 03-26-15, 01:10 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by KahnBB6
Ali, I've found some decent prices for the GTE oil pump. It's maybe $50 difference between the two. I think I will hold off a bit longer and focus on the other remaining parts. But the crank gear tooth issue I was not aware of. I almost bought a GE VVT-i crank gear the other day.

So without question I need the GTE non-vvt gear?




^^ Thank you for this advice! That's what I needed to start testing the waters with the pump conversion. I'm still going to hold off on the full conversion for now but I will investigate the EFI2 wiring and see what my approach will be.

I might figure that out and pre-run the wire in some insulation heat shrink tubing for now and tackle the fuel ECU and pump swap at a later time.
non-vvti crank gear, without question. here is my overly long explanation for the difference.
non-vvti uses a 24 tooth crank gear pattern (24 normal teeth) and 2 cam sensor triggers for sequential fuel and ignition (most toyota's in the 80's and 90's had this setup)
vvti uses a 36-2 tooth pattern (36 teeth missing 2) and 1 cam sensor trigger for sequential fuel and batch fire ignition. (mostly newer cars use this crank pattern as its more sensitive and the ecu can know basic timing even if it looses the cam signal as the 2 missing teeth notate the start of the engine rotation cycle.

The gte ecu expects the 24 tooth and 2 cam triggers. one can achieve this either by the stock gte setup, or the GE distributor also puts out the same signals, which is how I do the tt ecu mod.

oil pump, you know what my opinion is likely from other threads, match it to the block. Its an important piece so you will have to make a decision there is lots of info out there.
this is a good picture visual of the internal differences of the 2 pumps. its vvti but it still similarly applies.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-...-oil-pump.html
Jefftsai really knows his stuff I have followed several of his treads. the info in there is gold yet it has like 5 responses.

wiring get as much done as you can beforehand, it will make it easier when the time comes to do the swap.

Last edited by Ali SC3; 03-26-15 at 01:15 PM.
Old 03-26-15, 01:13 PM
  #69  
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Kudos for a very detailed build... starting with part collections !

Why does CALI have to make it so hard compared to other states ?
Old 03-27-15, 04:35 AM
  #70  
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Well to answer the CALIF question….. You have to go back into time.. and for real our air quality did SUCK.. not QUITE as bad as JAPAN but CLOSE. So the GOV-MEANT formed a "PANEL" to look in to this HEALTH ISSUE.
Which I can say it was … but the GOV-MEANT FRACKED IT UP ( and this goes all the way back to the 70's ) … The IDEA was to burn all the fuel ( where 15% avg was completely unburnt coming out of the tail pipe ) .. carburetors were mis adjusted, timing was off , spark plug wires were arcing on exhaust manifolds.. and that was just in my AUTO SHOP CLASS… Now multiply that by the populace of this state and you had BROWN AIR… The San Fernando valley didn't have " costal breezes " so you were driving thru SMOG…. Now I do not consider myself a TREE HUGGER ( even though I do own a Honda Insight… but that was me being CHEAP and at the time I could use the car pool lane as a single driver so it cut my commute time ) So going from the 70's to today there are MORE RULES about making a car … it has to pass EMISSION LAWS when new to be sold here in CA.. and ALL the CARB is doing is TRYING to keep standards UP so cars are generating less CRUD out the tail pipe. A cat converter is a pretty trick bit of tech , yes it restricts FLOW ( and I wish CARB would approve a SUPER HI FLOW CAT…) but the trade off for less junk in the air I'm cool with the restriction.. and lets get REAL for a sec. MOST bolt on MODS are not done PROPERLY ( wrong cams , bad timing , no cats Aftermarket air filter that has WAY to much OIL sprayed on it hasn't been cleaned for 4 months, Oversized injectors and misprogrammed ECU by the TUNER…. and the OWNER decided to get FART CANS instead of repairing a head gasket that has a SMALL LEAK and shoved 3 bottles of BARS STOP LEAK in the coolant ! Yes it's a PITA to do it RIGHT , meaning get the car back to stock spec's,, but the car RUNS TIGHT, no codes, fuel efficient ( and at 4 bucks a gallon it adds up QUICK ) and as a side benefit the car has a HIGHER RESALE VALUE ( in this state ) . We are not building a TRACK, DYNO,DRIFTIN car .. This is a daily driver.

Now all that being said, one of my FUN cars is a 64 Vette, convertible 327 stick , 4bbl for the sunday RUN !
Old 03-28-15, 02:21 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Ali SC3
non-vvti crank gear, without question.
Thanks, Ali! Added to the list. Very interesting about the switch to the 36-2 tooth pattern. Would I be right in assuming JDM 2JZGTE VVT-i's also used this type of pattern?

Originally Posted by Ali SC3
oil pump, you know what my opinion is likely from other threads, match it to the block. Its an important piece so you will have to make a decision there is lots of info out there.

wiring get as much done as you can beforehand, it will make it easier when the time comes to do the swap.
Yes, and I think I'll just stick to that, so long as I'm using my original block. And with the wiring I will get to that first.

Originally Posted by gerrb
Kudos for a very detailed build... starting with part collections !

Why does CALI have to make it so hard compared to other states ?
Thank you gerrb! The parts list on page one will get a minor update soon once a couple more things come in. It's a collection all right. Currently six big Lowes storage bins large not including the turbos and some small bins for electronics.

Originally Posted by vigman
Well to answer the CALIF question….. You have to go back into time.. and for real our air quality did SUCK.. not QUITE as bad as JAPAN but CLOSE. So the GOV-MEANT formed a "PANEL" to look in to this HEALTH ISSUE.
Which I can say it was … but the GOV-MEANT FRACKED IT UP ( and this goes all the way back to the 70's ) … The IDEA was to burn all the fuel ( where 15% avg was completely unburnt coming out of the tail pipe ) .. carburetors were mis adjusted, timing was off , spark plug wires were arcing on exhaust manifolds.. and that was just in my AUTO SHOP CLASS… Now multiply that by the populace of this state and you had BROWN AIR… The San Fernando valley didn't have " costal breezes " so you were driving thru SMOG….

.. and ALL the CARB is doing is TRYING to keep standards UP so cars are generating less CRUD out the tail pipe. A cat converter is a pretty trick bit of tech , yes it restricts FLOW ( and I wish CARB would approve a SUPER HI FLOW CAT…) but the trade off for less junk in the air I'm cool with the restriction.

gerrb, as to why Cali has to make it this hard? Well.....

*Grabs Acme Soap Box*

vigman is right on the money with how bad air quality was out here in the 60's and 70's. No matter how they did it something had to be done and in large part it has worked. Like vigman, I'm also okay with having *some* restriction in order to help rather than contribute negatively to the issue.

However, I do not feel it is as simple as air quality. While it's not entirely accurate to say that ONLY the tailpipe test matters (WOT shouldn't and doesn't though) it shouldn't be quite as draconian as it is with the visual inspection so long as the car functions as it is supposed to.

The majority of BAR folks I've spoken to over the phone have been strict... but very fair. They are usually also car enthusiasts but they are tied to a rigid set of regulations that even they must abide by as gatekeepers whether they believe in all of those regulations fully or only in part. The leeway is in the interpretation of how each swapped car comes in to them. They care about function the most.

And I believe vigman when he says a lot of cars the BAR folks get to inspect actually aren't done very well at all. Not everyone goes the extra mile to be thorough.

.......

But the larger picture probably has less to do with the BAR swap rules and passing emissions tests and more to do with an unspoken mission on the part of the Cali Air Resources Board: one thing they would very much like, as you'd expect, is for people to simply stop driving older cars in favor of new ones.

Killing the 30-year rolling exemption Cali used to have and making it all but pointless for a smog shop owner to even bother with money under the table for a hot smog (as of two years ago) as well as the awful Cash For Clunkers initiative are all efforts to do this. Also, tightening the allowable emissions numbers for various cars at their own discretion, which gives you slightly less margin than you were allowed during the test you had two years ago. The last one is the nastiest.

The measly 1%-3% emissions reduction that might possibly be achieved by squeezing older car owners on top of the other efforts to curtail any more allowance than was already in place by not requiring testing for 1973 and older vehicles (And by some miracle, pre-1998 diesels) is important to the ARB. As far as I can tell, they don't make much distinction between an "old clunker" and a "classic car".

As time marches on we will see more people in cars that put out such low emissions or no emissions that it really will be silly not to exempt extremely old money pit cars that only so many people can afford to own and maintain or drive every day.

......

*Steps down and tosses Acme Soap Box into the nearby L.A. river, accidentally blocking a drainage pipe in the process which causes a minor dam to form and attract mutant acid rain beavers who become super-intelligent and learn the ancient skills of the Ninja from an equally super-intelligent escaped radioactive mutant hippo Ninja master. Together, they fight smog and bureaucratic apathy wherever it may strike... beginning with Comcast...*

Anyway... as far as it applies to these GTE swaps or any swap that is more than a little complicated the bigger problem is when a crucial part, usually an emissions part, is totally discontinued and not available fresh and new.

And in those instances it's not California's fault... it's Toyota's.


Originally Posted by vigman
Now all that being said, one of my FUN cars is a 64 Vette, convertible 327 stick , 4bbl for the sunday RUN !
Not only smog exempt but a great classic

....

No updates for the moment other than waiting on more parts. Some from Cali, some from Florida, some from Japan.

For the time being the SC will be getting a new 4300K Phillips HID low beam system and it seems like it's time to replace the A/C evap core and tx valve. Summer is here and I've waited long enough.

I also ordered Hypercoil 500/250 springs for my Gixxer suspension to step down from the Hypercoil 600/325 springs currently in the car.

Edit: And I'm also on the lookout for a spare set of tan driver and passenger seatbelt assemblies. My original driver side is fraying a lot and I want to send my originals to either an eBay repair vendor or these folks: www.ssnake-oyl.com. They restore old muscle car seatbelts with brand new webbing. I've spoken to them on the phone and they are not sure if the SC retractors are too complicated to take apart and reassemble but informed me they would give it their best shot if I were to send in a set. But brand new webbing they can create and color match no problem.

First, I need to locate spares.

Last edited by KahnBB6; 03-28-15 at 02:13 PM. Reason: Minor grammatical correction and small overall car progress update
Old 03-28-15, 08:30 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by KahnBB6
I've spoken to them on the phone and they are not sure if the SC retractors are too complicated to take apart and reassemble but informed me they would give it their best shot if I were to send in a set. But brand new webbing they can create and color match no problem.

First, I need to locate spares.
Here is a great link for fixing the belts. Looks quite easy to accomplish.
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/sho...ruso+seat+belt
Old 03-28-15, 09:35 PM
  #73  
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^^ scblackout, thank you! I will be making a PDF and printout of that for them to examine. I hope the MKIV and SC mechanisms are similar or the same but that's what I needed! Now I just need to locate a working second set.
Old 03-29-15, 04:18 AM
  #74  
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Oh and just for the record ( grabbing another soap box ) …
When you have a car like David bought …
**** POOR 1JZ swap with a HOT SMOG just to flip title and 5K for the car..
THEN you willingly ACCEPT that monkey on YOUR back ( which eats ALOT )

So 2 years later that smallish monkey has turned into a WALLET SUCKING GORILLA.
And this is the cost to get rid of ALL that Monkey POO…
Wrong engine, Hot smog, New(er) engine, correcting ALL the PO F ups.. replacing all the rotting suspension rubber, tires, brakes, all the F ups on the NEWER engine from the builder ( 2 months and 6 shipments just to get the head right !!!.Extra costs here, there and EVERYWHERE. TIME lot & lots of time ! …

BUT the good news is… once we get the THUMBS UP and the magic sticker of sign off. The responsibility of KEEPING the engine running CLEAN by CARB's standard shifts just a little bit.. and if we FAIL in 2 years.. and spend $600.00 in repairs.. all other costs are now the STATES problem…. That being said it's a Toyota .. and they run FOREVER IF maintained properly ( and in stock configuration )…….

I have NO IDEA how many miles were on this engine Since the WORD of the builder can no longer be trusted..
AND add in when WE had the head gasket FLIPPED the top of the engine got a really nice OIL / COOLANT BATH. Post pull apart #3 ...ALL the carbon on the piston tops GONE, no ridge on the cylinder bores and the factory bores were SMOOTH AS GLASS… compression is now ~ 148psi +/- 2 all holes.

Was this the best choice for our $$$$ in a financial sense … NOPE
Was this the car David fell in love with and continues to have a deeper relationship with AND has taught him the weirding ways of the wrench.. Aww hell yeah.

This whole journey has been completely worth it !
Mike
Old 03-29-15, 01:03 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by vigman
Oh and just for the record ( grabbing another soap box ) …
When you have a car like David bought …
**** POOR 1JZ swap with a HOT SMOG just to flip title and 5K for the car..
THEN you willingly ACCEPT that monkey on YOUR back ( which eats ALOT )
This is what's interesting to me. It's FAR more difficult now than it was before January 1st, 2013 to even get a hot smog so the fact that the previous owner of your car was even able to legally sell it to you (FYI to those not in the know: in Cali you have to smog a car before selling it to someone, even if your normal 24 month smog cert is already up to date) is no small feat in itself. I guess some of the remaining shady shops haven't been hit by the BAR yet. They only have so many public resources.

But after it came to you and David... yep... either swap in a correct year 2JZ-GE with ALL the correct equipment or do the USDM GTE swap with the same level of strictness. Or another legal swap but then you get into all kinds of custom adapting of emissions parts and custom fitment.

Originally Posted by vigman
BUT the good news is… once we get the THUMBS UP and the magic sticker of sign off. The responsibility of KEEPING the engine running CLEAN by CARB's standard shifts just a little bit.. and if we FAIL in 2 years.. and spend $600.00 in repairs.. all other costs are now the STATES problem…. That being said it's a Toyota .. and they run FOREVER IF maintained properly ( and in stock configuration )…….
You know, I hadn't considered the standard rules of crossing that mark of $600 investment for repairs AFTER you've passed a BAR certification. Isn't that a gray area too, Mike?

Originally Posted by vigman
Was this the best choice for our $$$$ in a financial sense … NOPE
Was this the car David fell in love with and continues to have a deeper relationship with AND has taught him the weirding ways of the wrench.. Aww hell yeah.

This whole journey has been completely worth it !
Mike
^^ I have to agree. Doing a swap like this is absolutely, positively, without question NOT the best financial decision or even a remotely cost effective dollar-to-horsepwoer ratio for an SC300/400 compared to the plethora of turbocharging routes available for most SC owners. When you add up the total cost you could buy yourself a G35 6-speed w/Brembos, GTO, '99-'04 Cobra Mustang, WRX or STI or an older Evo VIII or early turbo BMW 3-series. In most cases. I won't include original Supra TT 6-speeds in that list because they still currently go for far more than what this swap probably costs (no, I haven't done my own tally yet. I shudder at the thought).

But for someone who really loves this particular car and is dedicated and patient enough to make it happen in the most restrictive state in the union? Absolutely worth it. Even at BPU you're right around the factory horsepower you got with a first generation IS-F in a car you can put through a normal smog test. With the beauty of turbos.

For me there is also a kind of sentimental value: my folks have owned two generations of LS400 sedans over the years and when I found this coupe with the same color interior, a chassis and driveline shared with the MKIV and a manual transmission it was a combination of nostalgia and geared appeal that I found hard to resist. The car just suits me.

Being dedicated to owning and modifying a classic car is always an irrational thing. And there is nothing wrong with that as long as we're happy every time we get in them and turn the ignition.

Very eager to see your final result!

Last edited by KahnBB6; 03-29-15 at 01:17 PM.


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