Kahn's USDM 2JZGTE swap thread (aka The "Not Easy" Way)
06-30-16, 08:16 AM
#241
Yeah the second engine could be a good idea, you will get more time to work on it and you can just drive your current one into the ground. its not hard to find one of these for a good deal and you can pick one up with less miles even. just grab a small storage unit and start wrenching on it.
07-01-16, 12:45 AM
#242
Right now... I won't get into that kind of work or investment.
IF you are decided to get work done on that short block , IF I were you .... I might as well let them work on another short block with your GTE head stuff .. run the current engine till it konks out rather than spending all that money and still be stucked with your GE setup. I still firmly believe if your car's operating temperature are normal , that engine will give you still a lot of service miles. That minor coolant in the oil could have been caused by a lot of things ... not necessarily a bad head gasket .
As Ali said , you might as well get into that GTE head setup . So you continually use the car .. meanwhile what you are spending goes toward your long intended setup .
As Ali said , you might as well get into that GTE head setup . So you continually use the car .. meanwhile what you are spending goes toward your long intended setup .
The most ideal situation would be to just go ahead with the original block in the car and use a freshly rebuild GTE head on top of that along with the new oil pump, tapped oil pan, GTE water pump and other parts.
Gerry, you've reiterated more than once that you think it's most likely in good shape on the bottom end. Do you think it would be fine with the stock 12 psi of boost? One of the Blackstone techs said that theoretically I might be good for another 100k miles on the current block based on what they do know about its oil history.
I am inclined to try going that route. Later on down the road I can afford a replacement block to overhaul the car with using the same GTE hardware.
Or I could just get another block from Aliga and have it shipped to a shop of my choice. I know you have one for sale too (unless it's sold already) but my access to a pickup on the east coast is limited at current time.
I have thought about what you've said and I want to look at the exploded diagrams of the 2JZ engine again. Other than the head gasket mating area and the water and oil passages that the gasket separates what else could be causing a contamination of the engine oil without affecting some other major external component? The coolant bypass pipe on the GTE might do this at the oil cooler area but I'm not sure. Something in the GE intake manifold area, possibly?
Yeah the second engine could be a good idea, you will get more time to work on it and you can just drive your current one into the ground. its not hard to find one of these for a good deal and you can pick one up with less miles even. just grab a small storage unit and start wrenching on it.
I'm still looking into those options.
I haven't wanted to run my current engine into the ground. I could, yes. But on the chance that it might still be unaffected enough to simply re-use with the GTE setup I have wanted to preserve it.
...
Yesterday I picked up a good working used TT 6-speed 90-amp alternator with 76k original miles on it. I am still picking up my remaining needed GTE parts at a trickle. Next will be the rebuild gaskets for the USDM twins and the TT coil packs, TT spark plugs and TT O2 sensors.
And I am going to go over the EPC listings again to make sure I have not missed any random gaskets for the exhaust system (I have a full TT exhaust system with cats to bolt up) or other areas.
Then I will turn back to the obvious ARP head bolts, head gasket, valve stem seals and other things that I will need either way.
...
Gerry, Ali, thank you. You've both given me very sound and wise suggestions. I know the best advice has always been to just get another block and set the car right with that and it still may be the best route to take.
However, given what I know thus far about the state of my original block am I asking for trouble if I just repair my issue on the original block and go GTE at the same time?
The head gasket I would use is still the Cometic 2.4mm. Ali, based on what we talked about a long while back I believe that is still what will get me closest to 8.6:1 or 8.7:1 with the 10.0:1 pistons and GTE head.
I know those USDM twins are very labor intensive to install and remove with the engine in the car but if everything else were set up to go I'd be okay with figuring out that part after the fact or possibly throwing an extremely cheap turbo on there which I would switch out later.
For now I am happy I have a TT alternator coming my way and I will focus on the last couple of TT ignition related parts.
FSR cannot even inspect my GTE head until August because they are so busy. It might still work out for the better at that time however that is where I am looking for an alternative good machine shop with a good reputation who knows what they're doing with a Supra cylinder head.
I'm taking my research, investigation, notes and parts purchases one day at a time right now. I am very optimistic about all of this. I'm just erring on the side of researching before moving forward.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 07-01-16 at 01:03 AM.
07-01-16, 03:07 AM
#243
Craig - this I might have missed it , my apologies if I did, have you done the following and if yes what were the numbers ? It will help a lot in many of your decisions that you need to make. You should easily be able to do them yourself. I prefer the leakdown numbers but it will be nice to have both. The compression test , all you need is the gauge . Leakdown , aside from the gauge , you will need an air compressor.
a) Compression Test -> What were the compression numbers on each Cylinder ?
b) Leakdown Test -> What were the leakdown numbers on each cylinder ? If a leakdown is more than 5% on a particular cylinder find out where the hissing sound is more audible ... 1) tail pipe which means leak is coming from exhaust valves 2) intake (throttle body) which means leak is coming from intake valves or 3) oil cap which means it is coming form the crank case thus air is passing through the piston rings .
In as much as I want to tell you that , IF I were you , I wouldn't boost a 241k mile engine . It will be unfair to say it without knowing the compression and leakdown numbers.Boosting an engine will give more stress on those internal parts so it will be nice to know the health of that short block . Boosting a 241k mile engine is like telling a 60 year old ordinary man (not an athlete), who every day takes 30 minutes to run a mile as an exercise, to run that mile in 5 minutes every day . How long do you think he will last doing it ? He will be dead soon if he isn't healthy enough to do it. But again give us the tests numbers please and it will help a lot.... see where your engine truly stands right now. It may also tell you the status of your head gasket cause leaks will sip through it if there is a part of it that is bad .
I was just wondering why you wanted to go nearer that 8.5:1 compression by using a Cometic 2.4 head gasket ? Why not just use a stock GTE head gasket and you are in the vicinit of 9.2:1 compression ? You never know in the future you would like to try E85 . Ethanol loves high compression. I am guessing this is all about that California tests again ..
. Damnit , get out of that hell. Go back to your place in FL 
. You work so hard and they won't even let you enjoy that little something you want to enjoy and yet there is so many other more important things they need to police or improve on if truly they want clean air or work on climate change.... politics 
.
Are you gonna do the work yourself for the GTE head conversion after let's say you have gotten your GTE parts inspected ? If those Twin Turbo only have 150k miles and oil seals are good meaning oil is not seeping through the wheels, IMHO, you can use them as is for now without getting them rebuilt . They will give you a good amount of service still especially as you have mentioned only up to stock boost. Every used stock turbo will have a small amount of shaft play with that mileage.
Did I sell you that USDM head ? I remember some time back I sold a USDM head to a person in Cali. Reason I ask is I am trying to remember if the head needed work which I doubt. All it needs as far as I know is reassembly of the valve train since it didn't have any.
a) Compression Test -> What were the compression numbers on each Cylinder ?
b) Leakdown Test -> What were the leakdown numbers on each cylinder ? If a leakdown is more than 5% on a particular cylinder find out where the hissing sound is more audible ... 1) tail pipe which means leak is coming from exhaust valves 2) intake (throttle body) which means leak is coming from intake valves or 3) oil cap which means it is coming form the crank case thus air is passing through the piston rings .
In as much as I want to tell you that , IF I were you , I wouldn't boost a 241k mile engine . It will be unfair to say it without knowing the compression and leakdown numbers.Boosting an engine will give more stress on those internal parts so it will be nice to know the health of that short block . Boosting a 241k mile engine is like telling a 60 year old ordinary man (not an athlete), who every day takes 30 minutes to run a mile as an exercise, to run that mile in 5 minutes every day . How long do you think he will last doing it ? He will be dead soon if he isn't healthy enough to do it. But again give us the tests numbers please and it will help a lot.... see where your engine truly stands right now. It may also tell you the status of your head gasket cause leaks will sip through it if there is a part of it that is bad .
I was just wondering why you wanted to go nearer that 8.5:1 compression by using a Cometic 2.4 head gasket ? Why not just use a stock GTE head gasket and you are in the vicinit of 9.2:1 compression ? You never know in the future you would like to try E85 . Ethanol loves high compression. I am guessing this is all about that California tests again ..
. Damnit , get out of that hell. Go back to your place in FL . You work so hard and they won't even let you enjoy that little something you want to enjoy and yet there is so many other more important things they need to police or improve on if truly they want clean air or work on climate change.... politics .Are you gonna do the work yourself for the GTE head conversion after let's say you have gotten your GTE parts inspected ? If those Twin Turbo only have 150k miles and oil seals are good meaning oil is not seeping through the wheels, IMHO, you can use them as is for now without getting them rebuilt . They will give you a good amount of service still especially as you have mentioned only up to stock boost. Every used stock turbo will have a small amount of shaft play with that mileage.
Did I sell you that USDM head ? I remember some time back I sold a USDM head to a person in Cali. Reason I ask is I am trying to remember if the head needed work which I doubt. All it needs as far as I know is reassembly of the valve train since it didn't have any.
Last edited by gerrb; 07-01-16 at 05:59 AM.
07-01-16, 08:42 AM
#244
Yeah Im going to have to back what Gerrb is saying at the least do a compression test on it. sometimes they are fine, sometimes they have some other issues like if the rings are gone and you turbo it then you basically just get a smoke show at that point. I think there is a good chance it is still fine at 241k, but thats a lot of work to do under an assumption. its not going to be fun as you have to take the intake off again, but its worth it I grabbed a bosch tester from the parts store and its been invaluable for knowing where problems are. as for your current issue you could even have a cracked or warped head instead of a blown headgasket, its not unheard of but the HG is the likely suspect.
I still think the 8.5:1 compression is a bad idea, they won't know what headgasket you used once you bolt it together, but yeah the 2.4 one will get you close to that, pls dont go any larger than that lol. I would just use a tt headgasket though and your car will be more fun especially at stock boost levels. then again cali gas isn't that great so maybe 2.4 isn't the worst idea.
If looking for a machine shop try and find one that works on toyota's if possible, even if its the trucks and suv's, like the one I go to over here works on landcruisers all the time so they are familiar with the general toyota hardware.
I still think the 8.5:1 compression is a bad idea, they won't know what headgasket you used once you bolt it together, but yeah the 2.4 one will get you close to that, pls dont go any larger than that lol. I would just use a tt headgasket though and your car will be more fun especially at stock boost levels. then again cali gas isn't that great so maybe 2.4 isn't the worst idea.
If looking for a machine shop try and find one that works on toyota's if possible, even if its the trucks and suv's, like the one I go to over here works on landcruisers all the time so they are familiar with the general toyota hardware.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 07-01-16 at 08:46 AM.
07-11-16, 03:01 PM
#246
Coming back to the thread after quite a few days as I have been tied up meeting deadlines and for a while I couldn't focus on what was happening with the car for more than a couple of hours each day.
Over the last week Gerry has been in touch with me and after a lot of convincing on his part to dislodge my stubborn cautiousness I refilled some lost coolant after a month of sitting and started the car again. I've been driving it without any issues for several days now and it's acting just as normal as before I got the alert call from Blackstone in early June. The never-solved cold start misfire issue is still present but it's been fine!
I've put about 90 miles on it in total and I'll just check my oil and coolant and do another change at 500 miles to be safe.
The biggest news, however is that I will not be doing anything radical to my stock 2JZ-GE engine at this point.
I bought a 2JZ-GTE block, crank, rods and rear sump oil pan from Gerry
I'll get some stock GTE pistons soon also and then all of the rebuild hardware that might have been applied to my original GE block will be applied to the GTE block.
This also means I'm going to be keeping it simple with the factory GTE oil feed setup to the stock twin turbos and selling the new unused GE VVT-i oil pump in favor of a GTE oil pump.
Also I finally ordered the 04175-46031 USDM twin turbo gasket repair kit. I can opt to use that kit for a rebuild or just hold onto it for a later rebuild if I decide to put the 150K mile twins on as-is.
And the used 67K mile Supra TT 90-Amp alternator arrives in the mail today.
....
A lot of work to do but this marks the point of no return now. I'm effectively not building a complicated NA-T any longer. Since what I am doing is backwards from almost all 2JZ-GTE upgrades or 2JZ-GE NA-T upgrades regardless of which cylinder head is used this emphasizes an important point for anyone else wishing to attempt a full USDM smog-legal swap like mine:
Gerry pointed out that the factory feed lines on the USDM (or JDM I assume) twin turbos need to be cut and modified for an AN type fitting that you can route from AN adapters you'd put onto the IS300 Union Bolt when using a 2JZ-GE block. There is no easy way to get the USDM twins in stock form to work with an NA block. It can be done but it's a good amount of extra work as I've learned from Gerry and Ali.
I even contacted Stu Hagen (who invented and co-designed the Hybrid twin turbo upgrade) and he wasn't very keen on the idea of using stock twins on an NA block since he'd never tried it himself.
Speaking to SpeedForSale who sell the USDM and JDM Hybrid turbos, it is easier to use a standard AN fitting off the Hybrid/Upgrade sequential twins due to their use of an aftermarket exhaust housing which has custom oil feed and return lines in the kit.
But 100% stock USDM sequential twin turbos (and one assumes JDM twins as well) do require modified oil supply lines to function. Plus Gerry had already convinced me to use a GTE oil pump on the NA block to feed them regardless.
Most people who do even a GTE head conversion will be using a modern single turbo which will not have this problem and as mentioned the USDM GT28 Hybrid twins should already have aftermarket feed line hardware.
But all around, for the purposes and goals of my particular swap, going with a GTE block is the better option.
So I really will have a factory style 2JZ-GTE when everything is completed
Gerry, we've been in touch all this week and you know the direction I'm going in now, however these are very good to things to cover just to be aware of the health of the engine in general. I don't plan to get into any extensive testing of my original engine any longer but I will be keeping these notes just in case I need them.
We talked about this extensively all last week and I agree. I did not understand just how important this concern was even for a high mileage 2JZ short block. And without compression and leak down test numbers you have no hard facts to determine anything with.
I still find it amazing that, potential head gasket or other leaks aide, without boost these engines are capable of running up so much high mileage.
Boost stresses everything more as I have been learning. I knew this... but I guess I assumed the overbuilt and stout nature of even the non-turbo 2JZ mitigated this risk compared to any other naturally aspirated high mileage or non-overbuilt engine.
A moot issue for me now but I am glad to have learned that engine design strength is one thing but engine health is still probably more important when considering forced induction.
Yep. As you guessed the 2.4mm gasket idea that I *was* going for entirely related to bringing 10.0:1 pistons with a GTE head down close to 8.6:1 or 8.7:1 to both better stay close to the original factory GTE 8.5:1 configuration for smog and better leave a safety net for the 91 octane fuel we have here (and 90 octane in some areas but that's mostly due to elevation differences).
I think just about everyone preferred I just use GTE pistons or at least a 1.8mm or 2.0mm head gasket or even the GTE gasket... but I think I needed at least a 1.8mm gasket with the old approach just to have minimum safety.
Also since I am going to be using a stock OBD1 6-speed USDM GTE computer I also figured having high compression might not be the best idea.
Again... very much a moot issue at his point since I am going with GTE pistons and a stock head gasket anyway
I've looked into E85 and really that's the best way to make use of Hybrid twin turbos. I don't find E85 offered at stations around L.A. There are a couple but it's not convenient. I've found it's not as common as it could be to be more practical and the higher rate of consumption associated with E85 doesn't make that a good practical fuel solution. It's a MUCH more affordable high octane fuel compared to running expensive race gas.
If I ever went that route then this SC would no longer be used as a practical car and it would live on weekends in a much more track-oriented state of tune
...
As for California... yeah, life and career really are out here now. I have family and friends on the east coast but I made my big decision long ago. I am just a stubborn and insistent person when it comes to what manner of car I own and drive. And I have wanted a reliable, stylish RWD manual 2+2 turbocharged car that has 300+hp for almost twenty years now. So even California's restrictions will not stop me
I don't mind the requirement for emissions equipment out here. I just think the way in which the visual inspection and E.O. numbers seem to be more important than under-the-limits tailpipe emissions numbers doesn't reflect a true desire for lower emissions.
What I do mind is the requirement for any equipment that has been discontinued by the manufacturer with no aftermarket replacement in sight. That is very annoying. But in this case I squarely blame Toyota and companies like Dorman, Airtex/Wells or Standard Motor Products. Almost entirely Toyota though because the Supra Twin Turbo is their most iconic sports car. They should be supporting it long after standard support ends for other more disposable models such as, for example... the Tercel.
Why else would cars from the late 70's and early 80's with antique emissions systems that fail or are unavailable still be required to remain stock when it's possible to put better systems into them which perform better and lower the emission numbers at the same time? Even newer design catalytic convertors can do this for some of those cars but it isn't allowed. That is very bureaucratic and not solution-oriented.
I am not saying that's going to work for every engine but it has been the case in the past for some.
Anyway... it's neither here nor there
Gerry, you mentioned this to me even more recently as well. I will look into this. I have the factory seal rebuild kit in hand now but I will see if I really need to have the twins rebuild or if I can push that to a later time after the engine is in the car.
The only thing I would want to avoid is letting the shafts get so out of alignment that this set becomes non-rebuildable at a later time.
That wasn't me, sorry. I bought this head from a seller off Supraforums a couple of years ago. I can look up his username but he seemed to have good history. He said he had intended to do a full valve train upgrade but abandoned his car project. I haven't had the head inspected yet but I mean to do this soon. So far FSR Motorsports is my only go-to for that. It's looking like early August will be their earliest availability to do it... or a rebuild.
My valve covers I got from yet another seller. Same with both GTE engine hooks and the top-cover. The rest of the small parts I have for it were purchased new. I just haven't purchased any replacement valve train parts yet such as stem seals.
Over the last week Gerry has been in touch with me and after a lot of convincing on his part to dislodge my stubborn cautiousness I refilled some lost coolant after a month of sitting and started the car again. I've been driving it without any issues for several days now and it's acting just as normal as before I got the alert call from Blackstone in early June. The never-solved cold start misfire issue is still present but it's been fine!
I've put about 90 miles on it in total and I'll just check my oil and coolant and do another change at 500 miles to be safe.
The biggest news, however is that I will not be doing anything radical to my stock 2JZ-GE engine at this point.
I bought a 2JZ-GTE block, crank, rods and rear sump oil pan from Gerry
I'll get some stock GTE pistons soon also and then all of the rebuild hardware that might have been applied to my original GE block will be applied to the GTE block.
This also means I'm going to be keeping it simple with the factory GTE oil feed setup to the stock twin turbos and selling the new unused GE VVT-i oil pump in favor of a GTE oil pump.
Also I finally ordered the 04175-46031 USDM twin turbo gasket repair kit. I can opt to use that kit for a rebuild or just hold onto it for a later rebuild if I decide to put the 150K mile twins on as-is.
And the used 67K mile Supra TT 90-Amp alternator arrives in the mail today.
....
A lot of work to do but this marks the point of no return now. I'm effectively not building a complicated NA-T any longer. Since what I am doing is backwards from almost all 2JZ-GTE upgrades or 2JZ-GE NA-T upgrades regardless of which cylinder head is used this emphasizes an important point for anyone else wishing to attempt a full USDM smog-legal swap like mine:
Gerry pointed out that the factory feed lines on the USDM (or JDM I assume) twin turbos need to be cut and modified for an AN type fitting that you can route from AN adapters you'd put onto the IS300 Union Bolt when using a 2JZ-GE block. There is no easy way to get the USDM twins in stock form to work with an NA block. It can be done but it's a good amount of extra work as I've learned from Gerry and Ali.
I even contacted Stu Hagen (who invented and co-designed the Hybrid twin turbo upgrade) and he wasn't very keen on the idea of using stock twins on an NA block since he'd never tried it himself.
Speaking to SpeedForSale who sell the USDM and JDM Hybrid turbos, it is easier to use a standard AN fitting off the Hybrid/Upgrade sequential twins due to their use of an aftermarket exhaust housing which has custom oil feed and return lines in the kit.
But 100% stock USDM sequential twin turbos (and one assumes JDM twins as well) do require modified oil supply lines to function. Plus Gerry had already convinced me to use a GTE oil pump on the NA block to feed them regardless.
Most people who do even a GTE head conversion will be using a modern single turbo which will not have this problem and as mentioned the USDM GT28 Hybrid twins should already have aftermarket feed line hardware.
But all around, for the purposes and goals of my particular swap, going with a GTE block is the better option.
So I really will have a factory style 2JZ-GTE when everything is completed
Craig - this I might have missed it , my apologies if I did, have you done the following and if yes what were the numbers ? It will help a lot in many of your decisions that you need to make. You should easily be able to do them yourself. I prefer the leakdown numbers but it will be nice to have both. The compression test , all you need is the gauge . Leakdown , aside from the gauge , you will need an air compressor.
a) Compression Test -> What were the compression numbers on each Cylinder ?
b) Leakdown Test -> What were the leakdown numbers on each cylinder ? If a leakdown is more than 5% on a particular cylinder find out where the hissing sound is more audible ... 1) tail pipe which means leak is coming from exhaust valves 2) intake (throttle body) which means leak is coming from intake valves or 3) oil cap which means it is coming form the crank case thus air is passing through the piston rings .
a) Compression Test -> What were the compression numbers on each Cylinder ?
b) Leakdown Test -> What were the leakdown numbers on each cylinder ? If a leakdown is more than 5% on a particular cylinder find out where the hissing sound is more audible ... 1) tail pipe which means leak is coming from exhaust valves 2) intake (throttle body) which means leak is coming from intake valves or 3) oil cap which means it is coming form the crank case thus air is passing through the piston rings .
In as much as I want to tell you that , IF I were you , I wouldn't boost a 241k mile engine . It will be unfair to say it without knowing the compression and leakdown numbers.Boosting an engine will give more stress on those internal parts so it will be nice to know the health of that short block . Boosting a 241k mile engine is like telling a 60 year old ordinary man (not an athlete), who every day takes 30 minutes to run a mile as an exercise, to run that mile in 5 minutes every day . How long do you think he will last doing it ? He will be dead soon if he isn't healthy enough to do it. But again give us the tests numbers please and it will help a lot.... see where your engine truly stands right now. It may also tell you the status of your head gasket cause leaks will sip through it if there is a part of it that is bad .
I still find it amazing that, potential head gasket or other leaks aide, without boost these engines are capable of running up so much high mileage.
Boost stresses everything more as I have been learning. I knew this... but I guess I assumed the overbuilt and stout nature of even the non-turbo 2JZ mitigated this risk compared to any other naturally aspirated high mileage or non-overbuilt engine.
A moot issue for me now but I am glad to have learned that engine design strength is one thing but engine health is still probably more important when considering forced induction.
I was just wondering why you wanted to go nearer that 8.5:1 compression by using a Cometic 2.4 head gasket ? Why not just use a stock GTE head gasket and you are in the vicinit of 9.2:1 compression ? You never know in the future you would like to try E85 . Ethanol loves high compression. I am guessing this is all about that California tests again .. . Damnit , get out of that hell. Go back to your place in FL . You work so hard and they won't even let you enjoy that little something you want to enjoy and yet there is so many other more important things they need to police or improve on if truly they want clean air or work on climate change.... politics .
. Damnit , get out of that hell. Go back to your place in FL . You work so hard and they won't even let you enjoy that little something you want to enjoy and yet there is so many other more important things they need to police or improve on if truly they want clean air or work on climate change.... politics .I think just about everyone preferred I just use GTE pistons or at least a 1.8mm or 2.0mm head gasket or even the GTE gasket... but I think I needed at least a 1.8mm gasket with the old approach just to have minimum safety.
Also since I am going to be using a stock OBD1 6-speed USDM GTE computer I also figured having high compression might not be the best idea.
Again... very much a moot issue at his point since I am going with GTE pistons and a stock head gasket anyway
I've looked into E85 and really that's the best way to make use of Hybrid twin turbos. I don't find E85 offered at stations around L.A. There are a couple but it's not convenient. I've found it's not as common as it could be to be more practical and the higher rate of consumption associated with E85 doesn't make that a good practical fuel solution. It's a MUCH more affordable high octane fuel compared to running expensive race gas.
If I ever went that route then this SC would no longer be used as a practical car and it would live on weekends in a much more track-oriented state of tune
...
As for California... yeah, life and career really are out here now. I have family and friends on the east coast but I made my big decision long ago. I am just a stubborn and insistent person when it comes to what manner of car I own and drive. And I have wanted a reliable, stylish RWD manual 2+2 turbocharged car that has 300+hp for almost twenty years now. So even California's restrictions will not stop me
I don't mind the requirement for emissions equipment out here. I just think the way in which the visual inspection and E.O. numbers seem to be more important than under-the-limits tailpipe emissions numbers doesn't reflect a true desire for lower emissions.
What I do mind is the requirement for any equipment that has been discontinued by the manufacturer with no aftermarket replacement in sight. That is very annoying. But in this case I squarely blame Toyota and companies like Dorman, Airtex/Wells or Standard Motor Products. Almost entirely Toyota though because the Supra Twin Turbo is their most iconic sports car. They should be supporting it long after standard support ends for other more disposable models such as, for example... the Tercel.
Why else would cars from the late 70's and early 80's with antique emissions systems that fail or are unavailable still be required to remain stock when it's possible to put better systems into them which perform better and lower the emission numbers at the same time? Even newer design catalytic convertors can do this for some of those cars but it isn't allowed. That is very bureaucratic and not solution-oriented.
I am not saying that's going to work for every engine but it has been the case in the past for some.
Anyway... it's neither here nor there
Are you gonna do the work yourself for the GTE head conversion after let's say you have gotten your GTE parts inspected ? If those Twin Turbo only have 150k miles and oil seals are good meaning oil is not seeping through the wheels, IMHO, you can use them as is for now without getting them rebuilt . They will give you a good amount of service still especially as you have mentioned only up to stock boost. Every used stock turbo will have a small amount of shaft play with that mileage.
The only thing I would want to avoid is letting the shafts get so out of alignment that this set becomes non-rebuildable at a later time.
My valve covers I got from yet another seller. Same with both GTE engine hooks and the top-cover. The rest of the small parts I have for it were purchased new. I just haven't purchased any replacement valve train parts yet such as stem seals.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 07-11-16 at 03:05 PM.
07-11-16, 03:11 PM
#247
Yeah Im going to have to back what Gerrb is saying at the least do a compression test on it. sometimes they are fine, sometimes they have some other issues like if the rings are gone and you turbo it then you basically just get a smoke show at that point. I think there is a good chance it is still fine at 241k, but thats a lot of work to do under an assumption. its not going to be fun as you have to take the intake off again, but its worth it I grabbed a bosch tester from the parts store and its been invaluable for knowing where problems are. as for your current issue you could even have a cracked or warped head instead of a blown headgasket, its not unheard of but the HG is the likely suspect.
I still think the 8.5:1 compression is a bad idea, they won't know what headgasket you used once you bolt it together, but yeah the 2.4 one will get you close to that, pls dont go any larger than that lol. I would just use a tt headgasket though and your car will be more fun especially at stock boost levels. then again cali gas isn't that great so maybe 2.4 isn't the worst idea.
If looking for a machine shop try and find one that works on toyota's if possible, even if its the trucks and suv's, like the one I go to over here works on landcruisers all the time so they are familiar with the general toyota hardware.
I still think the 8.5:1 compression is a bad idea, they won't know what headgasket you used once you bolt it together, but yeah the 2.4 one will get you close to that, pls dont go any larger than that lol. I would just use a tt headgasket though and your car will be more fun especially at stock boost levels. then again cali gas isn't that great so maybe 2.4 isn't the worst idea.
If looking for a machine shop try and find one that works on toyota's if possible, even if its the trucks and suv's, like the one I go to over here works on landcruisers all the time so they are familiar with the general toyota hardware.
But that's a moot point now as you'll have read above
I will be going with 8.5:1 but in full GTE block form with the TT head gasket.^^ I am going to take your advice and look into shops that work on Toyota trucks. At least 1FZ or 22R Toyota truck engines. For the GTE head I will not be going to just any regular shop. So far I have a detailed quote from FSR Motorsports but I am open to a good alternative shop that also works on Toyota cylinder heads. All in all though for a rebuild their quote isn't bad.
07-11-16, 03:13 PM
#248
Now that your fears about your present car have subside ... go and build your project engine so you can do that swap 
.
500 miles oil change on your current engine is too much for me ... 1500 miles should be fine as long as you don't see any signs of overheating .
Stock Twins will usually need rebuilds when you see a lot of smoke on your tail pipe and is caused by broken turbo seals. So before their shaft gets damaged that they are un-rebuildable , you will first see signs that they need rebuild so don't worry much about using them for now since you told me that they were guaranteed to be good.
Do not spend money uselessly , rebuilding items that do not need to be rebuilt. Save that money for something else you need on your built.
What work do you need to be done on your head ? You can save a lot of money if you do the work since you don't really need a lot of work based on your goals.
.500 miles oil change on your current engine is too much for me ... 1500 miles should be fine as long as you don't see any signs of overheating .
Stock Twins will usually need rebuilds when you see a lot of smoke on your tail pipe and is caused by broken turbo seals. So before their shaft gets damaged that they are un-rebuildable , you will first see signs that they need rebuild so don't worry much about using them for now since you told me that they were guaranteed to be good.
Do not spend money uselessly , rebuilding items that do not need to be rebuilt. Save that money for something else you need on your built
.What work do you need to be done on your head ? You can save a lot of money if you do the work since you don't really need a lot of work based on your goals.
07-11-16, 03:21 PM
#249
Even stock with both cats and not running more than 15psi of boost they will add 50whp over what good condition stock twins will and they are indeed much better and even more durable.
However if I am not planning to fully take advantage of them with a much less restricted E85 tune they are probably overkill for me.
I've thought about it a lot and in the future I may use them but for now there will be a big enough difference between barely 180whp and the NA torque curve and 300whp-350+whp and the sequential twin torque curve.
07-11-16, 03:36 PM
#250
Now that your fears about your present car have subside ... go and build your project engine so you can do that swap .
500 miles oil change on your current engine is too much for me ... 1500 miles should be fine as long as you don't see any signs of overheating .
Stock Twins will usually need rebuilds when you see a lot of smoke on your tail pipe and is caused by broken turbo seals. So before their shaft gets damaged that they are un-rebuildable , you will first see signs that they need rebuild so don't worry much about using them for now since you told me that they were guaranteed to be good.
Do not spend money uselessly , rebuilding items that do not need to be rebuilt. Save that money for something else you need on your built.
.500 miles oil change on your current engine is too much for me ... 1500 miles should be fine as long as you don't see any signs of overheating .
Stock Twins will usually need rebuilds when you see a lot of smoke on your tail pipe and is caused by broken turbo seals. So before their shaft gets damaged that they are un-rebuildable , you will first see signs that they need rebuild so don't worry much about using them for now since you told me that they were guaranteed to be good.
Do not spend money uselessly , rebuilding items that do not need to be rebuilt. Save that money for something else you need on your built
.Maybe it is too short of an interval. The "solution" for whatever any oil test results might show is a new engine (ha) but I'd only want to do it to keep an eye on this one. I'll do 500 miles this time to see what the result is. After that... I'll stick to 1500 miles as you suggest. There is no turning back now in any case
I just have to trust the seller's word on the condition of those twin turbos
But I am sure you're right about them. You did say you got 240k out of one set of them at stock boost!Right now other than verifying all the turbo side hardware and replacing some hex studs, nuts and a couple of pipe gaskets they are the last thing I am focused on.
I was not informed of any warpage or damage. I did ask the seller this. It was sold to me as a good condition USDM GTE head, just dismantled. His story was just that he pulled it apart with the intention of upgrading to an aftermarket valve train but gave up on the project car or lost interest and wanted to sell and move on.
I've never rebuilt a head before and I don't have the shop space to do it here. The GTE block I intend to build in the space I've got in Florida. I considered getting the head done here and shipping it there for assembly. Maybe just ship it all there and do it there. Not sure yet.
This week I will send you that 2JZGTE reference build video I have which I've studied a bit to become familiar with the long block build process. Very visually oriented which is good for my learning process.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 07-11-16 at 03:39 PM.
07-11-16, 03:43 PM
#251
Assembly of that head isn't hard at all buddy , trust me . We will talk about it later when you are ready . You need less space to work on the head compared to the engine. All you need is a table top and the right tools.....actually not a lot of tools .
.
07-11-16, 03:48 PM
#252
^^ Sounds good I can get myself a cheap Ikea metal table and do with that inside the apartment (and probably a big mat under it to avoid carpet stains).
Probably still better to find a better space to work on it but I think I will begin with an inspection of my own at least. The head itself... can it be cleaned up a bit with Simple Green or another common solvent cleaner and soft nylon bristle scrubbing brushes? That I would do outdoors of course.
I can get myself a cheap Ikea metal table and do with that inside the apartment (and probably a big mat under it to avoid carpet stains).Probably still better to find a better space to work on it but I think I will begin with an inspection of my own at least. The head itself... can it be cleaned up a bit with Simple Green or another common solvent cleaner and soft nylon bristle scrubbing brushes? That I would do outdoors of course.
07-11-16, 03:58 PM
#253
get a good / big rubber mat and put it on any hard table and you can work on that head..
Use B12 Chemtool for cleaning any part of the engine internals . Jared my buddy from Speed For Sale was the one who told me to use that for cleaning stuff. Let it sit for a couple of seconds or a minute then use a brush with soft nylon bristle that wont scratch or damage the part. And then wipe with a clean rag.
Use B12 Chemtool for cleaning any part of the engine internals . Jared my buddy from Speed For Sale was the one who told me to use that for cleaning stuff. Let it sit for a couple of seconds or a minute then use a brush with soft nylon bristle that wont scratch or damage the part. And then wipe with a clean rag.
07-11-16, 10:17 PM
#255
The 2JZ-GTE Non-VVT oil pump (P/N 15100-46052) is now on order so I'll be listing the new unused GE VVT oil pump for sale shortly with some other things.
The used 6-speed TT 90-Amp alternator (oval connector) also came in earlier today.
Moving along on the parts side. Getting the 6-speed ECU rebuilt with new capacitors will be next.
This thread is so overdue for pictures. Sorry all! There hasn't been a lot to see visually for a while but that will begin to change soon.
The used 6-speed TT 90-Amp alternator (oval connector) also came in earlier today.
Moving along on the parts side. Getting the 6-speed ECU rebuilt with new capacitors will be next.
This thread is so overdue for pictures. Sorry all! There hasn't been a lot to see visually for a while but that will begin to change soon.
Last edited by KahnBB6; 07-11-16 at 10:29 PM.