dstopsie

Hi

Thought I would put this question to the experts. I recommended a friend obtain a coating on his new car and his detailer gave him the option of 22ple or opti coat.

I don't have any experience with opti coat. His detailer told him the 22ple gives a glosser shine but the opti coat provides better protection.

I don't know how to advise him. He wants a great shine with the maximum protection to the paint.

Help can anyone please give me advise so that I can help him

thanks!

Debbie

zmcgovern4

iTrader: (2)

Hey Debbie,

Both products provide amazing protection... I am not sure you can accurately claim one is better than the other without some serious testing.... which I have yet to see done by anyone.

I do personally prefer the overall look and feel of the 22ple products compared to Opti-Coat Pro. In the end, he/she cannot go wrong with either choice. Assuming the proper prep work is done, both will look great and last a very long time with proper maintenance.

22ple has several newer coatings - 22ple VX Pro2 and 22ple VX3 Signature - as with the first generation of 22ple coatings, the Pro version has a higher concentration of silica and claims a higher durability. You'll also notice a considerable price difference in the product alone, and the Pro2 coating also requires a bit more work to apply, so it would be more expensive to have installed. (it is also worth noting that I highly recommend topping the 22ple coatings with VS1 Final Coat for added protection, slickness, and gloss)

There are so many coating brands out there these days, it is almost like asking someone "what wax is best?"... well, there are thousands of different types of waxes, and some people will like one while someone else will like another.... coatings are becoming the same way. They all work, some have certain advantages over others, but in the end there is no way to say one is absolutely better than the other because it is all very subjective.

Hope that helps.

-Zach

dstopsie

thanks Zach, I was hoping you would respond. I love the 22ple also on my car but i am not familiar with opti coat. I will definitely advise my friend to go with 22ple. I am not sure which version of it that his detailer uses. I use the Final Coat on my car and I love it.

thanks once again for your help

Nospinzone

Hi Zach, I have used Zaino Z2 Pro on my 612. Last fall before I put it away for the season I used Zaino Clear Seal after applying the Z2. So far this year I have done two applications of Z2, but not used the Clear Seal.

Based on your post above I am seriously considering using 22ple VX3 Signature and then the VS1 Final Coat. Firstly, is there any issue using these products over the Zaino Clear Seal? And secondly, do you recommend the VX3 over the VX Pro2?

Oh and also, can a DIYer like myself apply the 22ple, or should it be done by a pro?

Thanks!

chrisexv6

The most important thing about a coating (ANY coating, not just 22ple) is to start with a perfectly clean base. So you would need to make sure all of the Zaino stuff is off the paint. Im not familiar with their products (other than by name) so Im not sure what is required. It might be as simple as a car wash with Dawn detergent or some citrus based car wash diluted to an "LSP stripping" level

Once you are sure the previous stuff is gone, you would then correct your paint. Polish out any swirls, scratches, etc. Then you would need to wash it again to be sure all of the polishing oils are gone. I just started using Griot's Paint Prep for that step and am very impressed. Did a great job of "killing the beading" (if you sprinkle water on a panel and it beads up, there is still something there that needs to be removed before applying a coating)

Dry the car (carefully, dont want to add swirls or marring!), then you can think about coating it with something. Im an OptiCoat guy myself, but it would be nice to try some others eventually. I just dont have enough cars to try each brand! (CQuartz, 22ple, Kamikaze, Gyeon, etc)

zmcgovern4

iTrader: (2)

Hey,

Zaino products are drastically different from the ceramic coatings used on the market today and are not compatible with one another.

Zaino has been around for a while and has essentially been unchanged since 2007 (when they last updated their product website). Their nomenclature is a bit misleading... Z2, for instance, is called a polish however it is just a sealant by today's definitions. It does not contain any abrasives and will not remove defects, but is meant to provide months of protection... much like BlackFire Wet Diamond or Menzerna Power Lock.

Ceramic coatings, like 22ple, are considerably different when compared to traditional waxes or sealants. The particles in these paint coatings (SiO2 - ie silica, quartz, glass) bond to the each other to create a thin, yet strong crystalline matrix across the paint. This bond is incredibly strong and therefore difficult to break. Paint coatings provide a layer of protection that is hundreds of times thicker than your average layer of wax, extremely chemical resistant, and very easy to maintain. The only true way to remove these coatings is to use an abrasive on the paint (ie compound or polish), which should be done every 2-3 years (or longer if possible) to remove swirls or defects in the paint to keep it looking as good as possible. After this polishing process, a new coating will need to be applied.

These paint coatings provide many benefits in terms of protection and ease of maintenance, however it does come at a higher product cost and with considerably more prep work needed before application. You can read more about it in my article The Benefits of a Paint Coating.

Before applying a paint coating, the paint must be completely free of any other substances. This means you will need to wash, decontaminate (clay), and polish the paint to ensure all waxes or sealants have been removed. You'll also want to remove the majority of swirls and defects in the paint. After polishing, the car should be wiped down with a 50% Isopropyl Alcohol solution in order to remove any residual polishing oils that may be on the paint. Once the paint has been wiped down with the solvent and is completely clean, the coating can be installed.

The 22ple Products are quite user friendly, with VX3 being easier than VX Pro2. 22ple VX Pro 2 Glass Coating is the brand's premium consumer coating. This product was developed with a "no expenses spared" mentality and features a higher concentration of UHMW Silica compared to 22ple VX3 Signature Glass Coat. VX Pro2 has the ability to perform better than VX3, however either product is a fantastic choice.

VX3 was designed to perform as well or better than any other consumer coating at this price point. It also features the latest UHMW Silica that was incorporated into VX Pro2, but at a lower concentration.

If you top either one with VS1 Final Coat, you will see even better durability, gloss, slickness, etc.

For most consumers, I would simply recommend the 22ple VX3 Signature Coating & VS1 Final Coat.


Let me know if you've got any other questions.

-Zach

zmcgovern4

iTrader: (2)

It is worth noting that 22ple recommends ONLY using 50% IPA solution. Products like CarPro Eraser, for instance, contain surfactants (often found in detergents/cleaners).

If you're unfamiliar with the term surfactant, here is the definition: Beading is simply a product of high surface tension, therefore if a product contains surfactants, it is difficult to tell if the surfactant simply lowered the surface tension which provides the effect of little to no beading, or if the polishing oils were truly removed.


For this reason, I always use the manufacturer recommended cleaners. CarPro developed Eraser specifically for use with their products, therefore I do not hesitate to use it prior to installing CQuartz products as the instructions specifically state to do so, however 22ple does stricly state to only use IPA... therefore it is a good idea to abide by those recommendations.

Just my $0.02

-Zach

chrisexv6

Good info, thanks!

I actually used the Griots on my wifes car before throwing on some Megs Ultimate Spray Wax, so its not like I was prepping for some good stuff.

I coated my wheels with Gtechniq C1 and went to extremes to make sure everything was gone from them (including ChemGuys Citrus washdown, and an Optimum PowerClean followed by IPA wipedown)

Its interesting 22ple mentions a 50% IPA solution.....Ive read before that anything over 10 or 15% isn't really necessary. Have you experienced otherwise?

Nospinzone

Thanks so much for the responses guys. Yes Chris, I pretty much figured there would be necessary prep work. In fact after I posted my questions I did go to the Detailed Image site and read the particulars on a couple of the 22ple products.

Zach, I had asked you some questions last year when I decided to significantly step up my car care game. Many years ago I would rarely even wax my cars. Then when I got my '07 LS I started using Zaino products. When I got the 612 two years ago I thought I would go to the next level. I bought a Rupes Duetto and started with my wife's 2001 Jag for practice, but I told her I was putting her first, lol. I subsequently did my LS and both cars look fantastic.

I haven't touched the 612 yet because it was professionally detailed and clear film applied just before I bought it, although I don't know what product was used. Recently a friend of mine had his car professionally done with Opti-Coat Ceramic. That's what led me to find this thread. His car looks great, but from what I've read the 22ple gives a better shine, even though it will not last as long as the OC. The better shine is more important to me than the longevity, plus I understand that OC is for pro detailers, way over this amateur's head.

A more careful reading through all the 22ple products listed on the DI website had me realize there is Pro and there is Pro2. A distinction I didn't notice at first. I noticed they are out of all sizes of the Pro version anyway. I think my preference is to go with the Pro2 rather than the VX3.

Two more questions (for now ), I have film on the entire hood, front bumper and fenders. Is there any issue using Pro2 over these surfaces? And secondly, in reference to your statement, "polish the paint to ensure all waxes or sealants have been removed", would it be correct to use the Rupes Ultra Fine polish that I have? Note, I do have Fine and Medium coarseness as well, but the car is virtually swirl and defect free right now.

zmcgovern4

iTrader: (2)

The higher the alcohol content, the stronger the solvent... however this can also be more dangerous on your paint. If used properly a 50% solution should create no issues, however if you were to pour 100% IPA onto your paint and allow it to sit for a considerable amount of time, it could damage the paint. A spray on, wipe off of 50% solution will be safe on all properly painted vehicles in my experience. If you're unsure, use a 20% solution and go around the car twice to be safe.


I think you should just ship your 612 Scag to me so we can take care of it

The conclusion that Opti-Coat is more durable is quite misleading... the reality is that any of these coatings will create a very strong bond and they will all last a considerable amount of time (longer than the specified dates), however even though the coating is present until an abrasive is used on the paint, certain properties like water beading/sheeting may begin to degrade after a period of time which can vary greatly depending on the environment in which the car is kept and used.

Opti-Coat Pro offers a 5 year warranty when the product is maintained by the installer at least once each year. This allows the installer to properly clean, decontaminate, and apply additional protection on top of the coating to ensure it is performing at the highest level. If the coating is deemed as not being maintained properly, the warranty is in fact void.

Any coating needs appropriate maintenance, and in the case of 22ple, if you were to wash it as needed, decontaminate it as needed, and apply VS1 Final Coat on top of it from time to time, the coating could last you forever assuming no swirl marks or defects were ever introduced into the paint. VS1 will provide additional protection to the coating and also maintain the water beading/sheeting properties that everyone likes to see, therefore the only reason to polish the car (which removes the coating) would be if there were defects that need to be removed. This is often the case after 2-3 years of use, which is why most coating manufacturers recommend this process be repeated at that interval.


Regarding the 22ple products - the 1st generation of coatings that were released was the 22ple VX Pro and VX1 Signature Coatings. The latest generation of coatings (VX Pro2 and VX3 Signature) were recently released to replace these 1st generation products.

As far as the areas where clear film is applied, you can certainly apply a paint coating on top of the film as long as it is also properly prepped.

If the vehicle is defect free, a quick pass with a fine polish is all that is needed just to ensure that any residual waxes or sealants have been completely removed.

Hope that helps! As always, let me know what else I can answer for you.

-Zach

Nospinzone

Actually, I would drive it out there! I bought the car in August 2013 with 4500 miles on it. I'm at 14,500 now. I bought it to drive rain or shine, it is no garage queen (except for 5 months of winter). So that is why I am looking for the best protection.

My friend mentioned the 5 year warranty, but he didn't say he had to bring it in every year. I wonder if he knows that, I'll ask him. They also did some 5 year process with his leather where he said they applied something and then wrapped the leather in plastic overnight. He has no idea what they put on. Speaking of leather, what do you think of Connolly Hide Care? I've always used Zaino leather conditioner and have been happy with it.

I read your product review of VX3 Signature and that car looks absolutely amazing. I think I may go with that rather than the Pro2 since it may be easier for me to apply.

zmcgovern4

iTrader: (2)

Don't get me wrong - both are easy to apply... VX3 has just been easier in my limited experience so far with both coatings. You can't go wrong with either.

That's awesome that you drive that car so much... many people buy vehicles of that stature just to look at them... which is a waste! Would love to see some pics!

I just re-read the latest warranty information and I may have been incorrect about the annual visits to the installer. I do not see anything like that mentioned in the warranty information here. I do specifically remember that it used to be a requirement, but perhaps they removed it when they went through some major changes to their program a couple of years ago.

I would assume the leather protection was the Opti-Guard coating.

I don't have any first hand experience with the Connolly Hide Care, but if you like zaino, then might as well stick with it.

-Zach

Nospinzone

Thanks for all your advice Zach, much appreciated.

Here are some pics -

zmcgovern4

iTrader: (2)

Looks great!

sydtoosic

Opti coat ftw...