Rain-X Complete Surface Protectant
01-06-15, 06:33 PM
#16
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
I apologize... I did jump to conclusions without thoroughly reading your responses.
While it may be true that some auto washes are safer... I continue to see rather severe damage caused by them on vehicles I work on, therefore that is my sign that the ones in my area at least, are not safe. I am able to maintain a relatively swirl free vehicle for over 2 years with routine washes, therefore I have concluded that for myself, proper hand washing is the best option.
Regarding the individual who mentioned that he polishes his vehicle 4 times per year... it is sometimes true that people polish their vehicles without any real reason to (ie they dont have true defects to remove)... some people think that by polishing very regularly is just the right thing to do. If he is in fact removing swirls 4 times a year, then I think we can agree his maintenance washes are simply not up to par.
Again, forgive my previously ignorant comments... I did not do an adequate job of getting your story straight while skimming on my phone. That is entirely my fault... sorry.
-Zach
While it may be true that some auto washes are safer... I continue to see rather severe damage caused by them on vehicles I work on, therefore that is my sign that the ones in my area at least, are not safe. I am able to maintain a relatively swirl free vehicle for over 2 years with routine washes, therefore I have concluded that for myself, proper hand washing is the best option.
Regarding the individual who mentioned that he polishes his vehicle 4 times per year... it is sometimes true that people polish their vehicles without any real reason to (ie they dont have true defects to remove)... some people think that by polishing very regularly is just the right thing to do. If he is in fact removing swirls 4 times a year, then I think we can agree his maintenance washes are simply not up to par.
Again, forgive my previously ignorant comments... I did not do an adequate job of getting your story straight while skimming on my phone. That is entirely my fault... sorry.
-Zach
01-07-15, 08:09 AM
#18
The International Carwash Association working through a special Carwash Research Foundation Grant to the University of Texas at Arlington, Texas, has conducted extensive car washing tests this past year to determine the effect on car finishes by comparing various car washing techniques ranging from professional car washing to the bucket and sponge used by many auto owners.
A single trip through the local automatic car wash would puts defects into my car's paint that five years of hand washing couldn't do. But I'm using very different techniques, tools, and consumables than in that test.
01-07-15, 08:56 AM
#19
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
The bold text was all I needed to read in order to predict their conclusion.
A single trip through the local automatic car wash would puts defects into my car's paint that five years of hand washing couldn't do. But I'm using very different techniques, tools, and consumables than in that test.
A single trip through the local automatic car wash would puts defects into my car's paint that five years of hand washing couldn't do. But I'm using very different techniques, tools, and consumables than in that test.
01-07-15, 02:35 PM
#20
The website only refers to the research. Have you read or do you know where the in depth technical research paper is? If you do, please send me a copy or share it here. I would like to review it.
Both websites are from commercial car wash companies and when they make claim about the auto car wash is safe. There is certainly bias in their claim. They will not going to say it will scratch your car lol. Also, can you trust their "interpretation" of the research papers without looking at the research papers yourself? interpretation plays a very important role especially regarding something is subjective in nature. A grade B may be considered good for some people but a failure for Asian parents lol. Also, can you believe 100% with full certainty that the paint has no problem withOUT seeing or knowing the settings, the experiments they did and most importantly seeing the paint condition yourself?? Without all that, it is just vague information. Even if the university concludes that car wash it is safe. That does NOT mean it is safe. It only means that the car washes machines they experimented were safe, NOT ALL car wash stations are safe unless they have tested every single car wash station out there. Also, no one has challenged their findings yet. I and many who have gone through car washes and see swirls on our cars can go forward challenge their conclusions based on our ACTUAL experience.
From many and my experience at least in the local car wash stations in southern CA, swirl marks, minor scratches are guaranteed and it is so obvious that you can just take your car there couple times and come back with tons of imperfections. No Ph.D research can argue against this.
Anyways, without further ado, why don't YOU put your car through the so-called SAFE car wash stations and TELL US how safe it is??? I can't wait to see the results
Both websites are from commercial car wash companies and when they make claim about the auto car wash is safe. There is certainly bias in their claim. They will not going to say it will scratch your car lol. Also, can you trust their "interpretation" of the research papers without looking at the research papers yourself? interpretation plays a very important role especially regarding something is subjective in nature. A grade B may be considered good for some people but a failure for Asian parents lol. Also, can you believe 100% with full certainty that the paint has no problem withOUT seeing or knowing the settings, the experiments they did and most importantly seeing the paint condition yourself?? Without all that, it is just vague information. Even if the university concludes that car wash it is safe. That does NOT mean it is safe. It only means that the car washes machines they experimented were safe, NOT ALL car wash stations are safe unless they have tested every single car wash station out there. Also, no one has challenged their findings yet. I and many who have gone through car washes and see swirls on our cars can go forward challenge their conclusions based on our ACTUAL experience.
From many and my experience at least in the local car wash stations in southern CA, swirl marks, minor scratches are guaranteed and it is so obvious that you can just take your car there couple times and come back with tons of imperfections. No Ph.D research can argue against this.
Anyways, without further ado, why don't YOU put your car through the so-called SAFE car wash stations and TELL US how safe it is??? I can't wait to see the results
Last edited by FSportIS; 01-07-15 at 03:04 PM.
01-08-15, 06:55 AM
#21
My 2¢.
As already mentioned, but bears repeating. "Anything that touches your paint may cause swirls." In the case of automatic cloth washes in the northern states, these cloth or plastic brushes run over the paint and remove, dirt, grit, debris and salt. Like your wash mitt some of these debris will get lodged into the material as they scrub car after car. If you rub this debris against the paint you will get swirling. Many cars in the north have a ton of burnished swirls in them from winter tunnel washing. If you hand wash and are not using good procedure you could do the same.
I carry a half dozen half-page signs in my glove box that state in bold type:
DO NOT WASH
I place these in the car and have one stapled to the work order whenever I have my cars in for service.
I do use Laser Touchless carwashes with blower drying frequently in the winter months as they don''t induce swirls. They do remove most of the winter grime and salt spray along with a good underbody flush, but occasionally leave a film that doesn't get removed until I get it home and do a waterless wash in the garage.
I also follow with Meguiar's D156 X-Press Synthetic Spray Wax (really a wowo sealant) to replenish the LSP and extend the life of it, to counteract the harsher detergent used at these touchless washes.
Doing a study of a cloth auto wash in Texas likely will yield much different results than the same study done in Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit, etc. in the winter months.
I've been polishing paint for many years and the cloth auto wash has been responsible for most of my business.
As already mentioned, but bears repeating. "Anything that touches your paint may cause swirls." In the case of automatic cloth washes in the northern states, these cloth or plastic brushes run over the paint and remove, dirt, grit, debris and salt. Like your wash mitt some of these debris will get lodged into the material as they scrub car after car. If you rub this debris against the paint you will get swirling. Many cars in the north have a ton of burnished swirls in them from winter tunnel washing. If you hand wash and are not using good procedure you could do the same.
I carry a half dozen half-page signs in my glove box that state in bold type:
DO NOT WASH
I place these in the car and have one stapled to the work order whenever I have my cars in for service.
I do use Laser Touchless carwashes with blower drying frequently in the winter months as they don''t induce swirls. They do remove most of the winter grime and salt spray along with a good underbody flush, but occasionally leave a film that doesn't get removed until I get it home and do a waterless wash in the garage.
I also follow with Meguiar's D156 X-Press Synthetic Spray Wax (really a wowo sealant) to replenish the LSP and extend the life of it, to counteract the harsher detergent used at these touchless washes.
Doing a study of a cloth auto wash in Texas likely will yield much different results than the same study done in Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit, etc. in the winter months.
I've been polishing paint for many years and the cloth auto wash has been responsible for most of my business.
01-08-15, 05:25 PM
#22
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Honestly I would NEVER subject MY vehicle to an automated car wash. Moreover, I have only once paid someone else to detail my vehicle...only because it was a lease and was the wife's car. I know ever blemish, scratch, road chip on my car. I'm sure my dealer thinks I'm crazy, but hey....I care not. 
01-08-15, 06:43 PM
#24
01-08-15, 07:10 PM
#25
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I have purchased quite a few new cars in my life. At the close of the deal, the salesman always would say, "we'll get it washed an waxed for you" to which i begged that they leave it alone. Yes, I to ask them to no wash or clean when it goes in for oil changes, etc.
01-08-15, 09:26 PM
#26
I do the same but to a crazier extend haha.
Every time I went into my local car dealership, I would make an appointment with a note "NO WASH".
Once I were greeted by the receptionist, I told him "NO WASH". Inside my car, there would be "NO WASH" big text on the passenger seat and "NO WASH" big text on the rear windows.
Once I met my service adviser, I immediately told him or her "NO WASH" before anything else.
Upon finish talking with the service adviser and about to get my loaner, I would talk to one of the receptionists to make sure they put a "NO WASH" sign on top of my car roof. I walked to the see my car in the parking lot to verify that before I drive the loaner home.
Before the end of the day, I called my service adviser to see the status of the service and once again reminded him or her "NO WASH".
Upon getting my car back, I examined every single area in the exterior as well as the interior to make sure that the car would look exactly the same before the service.
You may ask why the hell I do all this for? Because couple times when I asked them to not wash, they forgot and ended up washing my car and created some minor swirls to my car. Also, I discover 2 hairlike deep scratches on the same day I bought my 2012 IS250 brand new 3 years ago. It is not noticeable on the white color so I did not spot it until I took it home.
The service adviser told me I'm one of the very few people who refuses free car wash while almost all other clients like it lol. I usually reply no one touches my baby except me and professional detailers hehe.
Every time I went into my local car dealership, I would make an appointment with a note "NO WASH".
Once I were greeted by the receptionist, I told him "NO WASH". Inside my car, there would be "NO WASH" big text on the passenger seat and "NO WASH" big text on the rear windows.
Once I met my service adviser, I immediately told him or her "NO WASH" before anything else.
Upon finish talking with the service adviser and about to get my loaner, I would talk to one of the receptionists to make sure they put a "NO WASH" sign on top of my car roof. I walked to the see my car in the parking lot to verify that before I drive the loaner home.
Before the end of the day, I called my service adviser to see the status of the service and once again reminded him or her "NO WASH".
Upon getting my car back, I examined every single area in the exterior as well as the interior to make sure that the car would look exactly the same before the service.
You may ask why the hell I do all this for? Because couple times when I asked them to not wash, they forgot and ended up washing my car and created some minor swirls to my car. Also, I discover 2 hairlike deep scratches on the same day I bought my 2012 IS250 brand new 3 years ago. It is not noticeable on the white color so I did not spot it until I took it home.
The service adviser told me I'm one of the very few people who refuses free car wash while almost all other clients like it lol. I usually reply no one touches my baby except me and professional detailers hehe.
Last edited by FSportIS; 01-08-15 at 09:31 PM.
01-10-15, 07:03 AM
#27
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I do the same but to a crazier extend haha.
Every time I went into my local car dealership, I would make an appointment with a note "NO WASH".
Once I were greeted by the receptionist, I told him "NO WASH". Inside my car, there would be "NO WASH" big text on the passenger seat and "NO WASH" big text on the rear windows.
Once I met my service adviser, I immediately told him or her "NO WASH" before anything else.
Upon finish talking with the service adviser and about to get my loaner, I would talk to one of the receptionists to make sure they put a "NO WASH" sign on top of my car roof. I walked to the see my car in the parking lot to verify that before I drive the loaner home.
Before the end of the day, I called my service adviser to see the status of the service and once again reminded him or her "NO WASH".
Upon getting my car back, I examined every single area in the exterior as well as the interior to make sure that the car would look exactly the same before the service.
You may ask why the hell I do all this for? Because couple times when I asked them to not wash, they forgot and ended up washing my car and created some minor swirls to my car. Also, I discover 2 hairlike deep scratches on the same day I bought my 2012 IS250 brand new 3 years ago. It is not noticeable on the white color so I did not spot it until I took it home.
The service adviser told me I'm one of the very few people who refuses free car wash while almost all other clients like it lol. I usually reply no one touches my baby except me and professional detailers hehe.
Every time I went into my local car dealership, I would make an appointment with a note "NO WASH".
Once I were greeted by the receptionist, I told him "NO WASH". Inside my car, there would be "NO WASH" big text on the passenger seat and "NO WASH" big text on the rear windows.
Once I met my service adviser, I immediately told him or her "NO WASH" before anything else.
Upon finish talking with the service adviser and about to get my loaner, I would talk to one of the receptionists to make sure they put a "NO WASH" sign on top of my car roof. I walked to the see my car in the parking lot to verify that before I drive the loaner home.
Before the end of the day, I called my service adviser to see the status of the service and once again reminded him or her "NO WASH".
Upon getting my car back, I examined every single area in the exterior as well as the interior to make sure that the car would look exactly the same before the service.
You may ask why the hell I do all this for? Because couple times when I asked them to not wash, they forgot and ended up washing my car and created some minor swirls to my car. Also, I discover 2 hairlike deep scratches on the same day I bought my 2012 IS250 brand new 3 years ago. It is not noticeable on the white color so I did not spot it until I took it home.
The service adviser told me I'm one of the very few people who refuses free car wash while almost all other clients like it lol. I usually reply no one touches my baby except me and professional detailers hehe.
01-11-15, 01:12 PM
#28
Lexus Fanatic
Seeing that this is the detailing forum, discussion of automatic carwashes is always going to descend into something you're not going to like LOL. Automatic carwashes are like the "anti-detail". As I detailer myself, you gotta respect that.
I'm a former professional, still hobbyist detailer...and I will admit that at this stage in my life both of my cars get washed in an automatic carwash almost exclusively. Thats part of why I went silver on the GS, I just do not have the time to wash them myself anymore, and my desire to have a clean car on demand negates the use of professional detailers to wash as they have to be scheduled, etc.
I took the time to find a few VERY good carwashes. The one I use is newer, has modern equipment, extensive pre-soak/rinse which keeps the mechanism clean, they use a lot of busy soap which lubricates, they use all MF towels to dry, the guys wear MF aprons. It inflicts as little damage to my vehicles as is possible in an automatic carwash in my experience. Obviously, it does damage I would not do if I were hand washing but life's realities are what they are,
As for the Rain X, I've had washes that use it and washes that don't. I see no difference. The only reason I get all the do-dads on an automatic wash is that I want as much lubricating sudsy stuff thrown at the paint as possible...the wash I use has a "lava wax" now...it looks cool and blinks but does nothing. I get it...because its sudsy lol.
My dealer has a tunnel wash, they use NO soap. Literally, it wets the car, the fabric strips "wash it" and thats all. They forgot not to wash mine once on a winter day when it was filthy...the paint marring was insane. So, not all washes are created equal.
I'm a former professional, still hobbyist detailer...and I will admit that at this stage in my life both of my cars get washed in an automatic carwash almost exclusively. Thats part of why I went silver on the GS, I just do not have the time to wash them myself anymore, and my desire to have a clean car on demand negates the use of professional detailers to wash as they have to be scheduled, etc.
I took the time to find a few VERY good carwashes. The one I use is newer, has modern equipment, extensive pre-soak/rinse which keeps the mechanism clean, they use a lot of busy soap which lubricates, they use all MF towels to dry, the guys wear MF aprons. It inflicts as little damage to my vehicles as is possible in an automatic carwash in my experience. Obviously, it does damage I would not do if I were hand washing but life's realities are what they are,
As for the Rain X, I've had washes that use it and washes that don't. I see no difference. The only reason I get all the do-dads on an automatic wash is that I want as much lubricating sudsy stuff thrown at the paint as possible...the wash I use has a "lava wax" now...it looks cool and blinks but does nothing. I get it...because its sudsy lol.
My dealer has a tunnel wash, they use NO soap. Literally, it wets the car, the fabric strips "wash it" and thats all. They forgot not to wash mine once on a winter day when it was filthy...the paint marring was insane. So, not all washes are created equal.
01-11-15, 06:33 PM
#29
Seeing that this is the detailing forum, discussion of automatic carwashes is always going to descend into something you're not going to like LOL. Automatic carwashes are like the "anti-detail". As I detailer myself, you gotta respect that.
I'm a former professional, still hobbyist detailer...and I will admit that at this stage in my life both of my cars get washed in an automatic carwash almost exclusively. Thats part of why I went silver on the GS, I just do not have the time to wash them myself anymore, and my desire to have a clean car on demand negates the use of professional detailers to wash as they have to be scheduled, etc.
I took the time to find a few VERY good carwashes. The one I use is newer, has modern equipment, extensive pre-soak/rinse which keeps the mechanism clean, they use a lot of busy soap which lubricates, they use all MF towels to dry, the guys wear MF aprons. It inflicts as little damage to my vehicles as is possible in an automatic carwash in my experience. Obviously, it does damage I would not do if I were hand washing but life's realities are what they are,
As for the Rain X, I've had washes that use it and washes that don't. I see no difference. The only reason I get all the do-dads on an automatic wash is that I want as much lubricating sudsy stuff thrown at the paint as possible...the wash I use has a "lava wax" now...it looks cool and blinks but does nothing. I get it...because its sudsy lol.
My dealer has a tunnel wash, they use NO soap. Literally, it wets the car, the fabric strips "wash it" and thats all. They forgot not to wash mine once on a winter day when it was filthy...the paint marring was insane. So, not all washes are created equal.
I'm a former professional, still hobbyist detailer...and I will admit that at this stage in my life both of my cars get washed in an automatic carwash almost exclusively. Thats part of why I went silver on the GS, I just do not have the time to wash them myself anymore, and my desire to have a clean car on demand negates the use of professional detailers to wash as they have to be scheduled, etc.
I took the time to find a few VERY good carwashes. The one I use is newer, has modern equipment, extensive pre-soak/rinse which keeps the mechanism clean, they use a lot of busy soap which lubricates, they use all MF towels to dry, the guys wear MF aprons. It inflicts as little damage to my vehicles as is possible in an automatic carwash in my experience. Obviously, it does damage I would not do if I were hand washing but life's realities are what they are,
As for the Rain X, I've had washes that use it and washes that don't. I see no difference. The only reason I get all the do-dads on an automatic wash is that I want as much lubricating sudsy stuff thrown at the paint as possible...the wash I use has a "lava wax" now...it looks cool and blinks but does nothing. I get it...because its sudsy lol.
My dealer has a tunnel wash, they use NO soap. Literally, it wets the car, the fabric strips "wash it" and thats all. They forgot not to wash mine once on a winter day when it was filthy...the paint marring was insane. So, not all washes are created equal.
01-11-15, 06:44 PM
#30
Lexus Fanatic
I'm in North Potomac now, but I grew up in and work in Bethesda.
There are several good carwashes, but they'd have to drive some from Bethesda/Silver Spring. The closest one to Bethesda would be the Flagship on Rockville Pike, the southern one not the old one on Hungerford Dr. They use MF towels to dry, but no aprons and they have to drive the car up onto the conveyor. They actually have two tunnels, an express one that you pull the car into and they don't do the inside, or the full service one where they drive it and do everything. Very good wash mechanism on this carwash.
The one I primarily use is the Germantown Auto Spa at the intersection of Germantown Rd and 355. Downside is its tight there and when its busy lines can be real long. But, you drive the car yourself which I prefer. Wash mechanism is all new and very good, high pressure rinse at the start, the guys wear aprons and use MF towels. Very careful and gentle (they pat dry instead of wipe dry a lot), no spinning wheel brushes or anything like that. They also have an unlimited monthly deal too, for $90 a month I can wash both cars once a day if I wanted to.
There are several good carwashes, but they'd have to drive some from Bethesda/Silver Spring. The closest one to Bethesda would be the Flagship on Rockville Pike, the southern one not the old one on Hungerford Dr. They use MF towels to dry, but no aprons and they have to drive the car up onto the conveyor. They actually have two tunnels, an express one that you pull the car into and they don't do the inside, or the full service one where they drive it and do everything. Very good wash mechanism on this carwash.
The one I primarily use is the Germantown Auto Spa at the intersection of Germantown Rd and 355. Downside is its tight there and when its busy lines can be real long. But, you drive the car yourself which I prefer. Wash mechanism is all new and very good, high pressure rinse at the start, the guys wear aprons and use MF towels. Very careful and gentle (they pat dry instead of wipe dry a lot), no spinning wheel brushes or anything like that. They also have an unlimited monthly deal too, for $90 a month I can wash both cars once a day if I wanted to.