When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I need some expertise on detailing my USB ISF. Im pretty much just a weekend warrior and I've done a couple details ie. brother's 06 Honda Accord, 92 Integra. I am going to tackle my car soon and I need some help. My steps and products used and what I'd like to do with my ISF:
1. Wash with P21s Shampoo with 2 bucket system
Question: should I be using Dawn to strip away everything else? Do I just add Dawn to my soap bucket and proceed with same method?
2. Clay bar
3.Polish: Griots Machine Polish 1-4 with Griot's Orange Pads
I have the whole set and I've used Polish 2 and 3 on my brother's Honda Accord as it was heavily swirled. I found that I was not able to remove all of the swirls using 2 or maybe my technique was off because it was the first car I did.
For my ISF, I was looking into Menzerna FG400 with Orange pad as a compound polish. From what I can see my ISF is pretty swirled.. not as bad as the Accord though. Anyone experience can shed some light on this product and how well it works on the blue.
4. Finish Polish: Griots Machine Polish 1-4
I finished 3 on the Accord, and it turned out decent but I felt like the Griot's took a very long time to correct the paint as well it dusted like a *****.. again this might be due to my technique.
For my ISF: I was looking into Menzerna SF4000 or SF4500 with a black pad as a finishing polish. Experienced detailers, any thoughts on this? any input on the difference between the two and how it well it works on Lexus paint.
5. Hand wax with P21s Carnauba Wax
Sorry forgot to mention, I am using a Griot's 6" DA polisher.
No need to worry about whatever LSP is still on the paint if you're going to polish it with FG400
The jump from FG400 to SF4000 or SF4500 is too big for most non-pros IMHO. A pro might be able to get the FG400 to finish down fine enough though. I'd probably follow the FG400 with PF2500 on a white pad and call it a day (I'm just an enthusiast, not a pro)
If I did all the work you're doing I'd apply a paint coating, but that's just me.
Wait for Zack to chime in and ignore everyone else's advice (including mine). He'll likely know if USB is unusually soft or hard, and requires different handling. He'll probably tell you to do a test spot before making a final decision on polish and pad.
No need to worry about whatever LSP is still on the paint if you're going to polish it with FG400
The jump from FG400 to SF4000 or SF4500 is too big for most non-pros IMHO. A pro might be able to get the FG400 to finish down fine enough though. I'd probably follow the FG400 with PF2500 on a white pad and call it a day (I'm just an enthusiast, not a pro)
If I did all the work you're doing I'd apply a paint coating, but that's just me.
Wait for Zack to chime in and ignore everyone else's advice (including mine). He'll likely know if USB is unusually soft or hard, and requires different handling. He'll probably tell you to do a test spot before making a final decision on polish and pad.
Thanks for the info. I guess it all depends on how heavily swirled my car is for the products to use? I'll see if i can get some pictures of the swirls. Would it be wise to use SI1500 then finish with SF4000?
What do you recommend for a paint coating? I am not very familiar with this. Would I apply this after the wax?
I need some expertise on detailing my USB ISF. Im pretty much just a weekend warrior and I've done a couple details ie. brother's 06 Honda Accord, 92 Integra. I am going to tackle my car soon and I need some help. My steps and products used and what I'd like to do with my ISF:
1. Wash with P21s Shampoo with 2 bucket system
Question: should I be using Dawn to strip away everything else? Do I just add Dawn to my soap bucket and proceed with same method? Dawn is for dishes, not cars. Simple as that While it is true that correction will certainly remove any existing LSP on the car, it is often beneficial to remove as much of it during the cleaning & decontamination process as possible because waxes, sealants, and glazes that may be on the surface can hide or mask defects and it is important that you understand exactly what you are working on when you inspect the paint after the washing & decontamination process. So, I would not recommend using dawn (I have never been a fan of that), but I would recommend spraying each panel with an all purpose cleaner like P21S Total Auto Wash (<- since you seem to like P21S) or Meguiar's D101 prior to washing. Dilute these products with distilled water (4 parts water : 1 part product should be just fine for this situation), spray onto a panel, allow it to dwell for 30 seconds or so (do not let it dry!) and then wash and rinse the panel thoroughly.
2. Clay bar You can also consider products like Iron X and Tar X prior to claying to help remove as many bonded contaminates as possible to make claying quicker and easier. Consider reading my articles on Understanding the Decontamination Process: Part 1 & Part 2
3.Polish: For my ISF, I was looking into Menzerna FG400 with Orange pad as a compound polish. From what I can see my ISF is pretty swirled.. not as bad as the Accord though. Anyone experience can shed some light on this product and how well it works on the blue. Menzerna FG400 is one of my favorite compounds. Since Menzerna utilizes Diminishing Abrasive Technology (DAT), their products are typically able to finish down very nicely, especially on softer paint like many Lexuses (Lexi? lol). If your finish needs some work, I would say Menzerna FG400 on an Orange Light Cutting Pad would be a good starting point. I will also recommend that you read my article on Analyzing Your Test Spot so that you can be more prepared for what you might encounter and how to work through the results of your test spot to produce the best results in the most efficient manner. (Note: Typically I would recommend to always start with the least aggressive method first. This is no different. Sometimes you may be surprised to find what you can do with a polishing pad and a finishing polish... so perhaps give SF4000 on a white pad a try to see what kind of results you get with it before diving right into the cutting compound )
4. Finish Polish: For my ISF: I was looking into Menzerna SF4000 or SF4500 with a black pad as a finishing polish. Experienced detailers, any thoughts on this? any input on the difference between the two and how it well it works on Lexus paint. SF4000 is a great polish, it has more cut than SF4500 which makes it more useful in most situations. SF4500 is great for one particular application - very soft, dark colored paint. Menzerna FG400 followed by Menzerna SF4000 is one of my most recommended combinations for DIYers as it works well on an incredibly wide variety of paint systems and you can alter the cut of each product by using them with different types of pads. Again, Menzerna uses DAT, and I have found that in some cases, a firmer pad works better as the abrasives can break down quicker, so you may consider a white polishing pad instead of a black finishing pad. You may need to experiment with amount of product used (I typically do not "prime" my pad when using menzerna polishes), machine speed, pressure, etc.
5. Hand wax with P21s Carnauba Wax Great wax!
Sorry forgot to mention, I am using a Griot's 6" DA polisher. That is a great machine! I would highly recommend using it with a 5" backing plate and 5.5" pads as well as a 3" backing plate and 3" pads for those tighter areas. A 5" backing plate with 5.5" pads will provide much quicker and easier cutting and will also be much better suited for the size of your vehicle. 6.5" pads can be useful on large, flat panels, but you lose a considerable amount of cutting power with a larger pad... especially on a smaller machine like the GG.
^See my responses above in red... Navy text are hyperlinks, click on them to view products or articles mentioned.
Originally Posted by swoo350
Thanks for the info. I guess it all depends on how heavily swirled my car is for the products to use? I'll see if i can get some pictures of the swirls. Would it be wise to use SI1500 then finish with SF4000? I would still recommend FG400 over SI1500 in most cases... the reason for this is that FG400 is a very useful product to have on your shelf. It can cut well when needed, and it finishes better than SI1500 according to the Menzera charts. With FG400, you can vary the amount of cut needed by choosing a more or less aggressive pad to fit your situation. For instance, use it with a Microfiber Cutting pad for some serious defect removal, or pair it with a white polishing pad for a more moderate level of cut. Heck, you can even use it with a black finishing pad if that is what works for you... there are no rules written in stone that a cutting compound has to be used with a cutting pad. That is something many people seem to forget.
What do you recommend for a paint coating? I am not very familiar with this. Would I apply this after the wax? If you are interested in a paint coating, there are many great options availale for consumers these days. A paint coating is an alternative means of protection that is applied instead of a sealant or a wax. Please read my article The Benefits of a Paint Coating to leanr more about what they have to offer and to help you decide if it is something you'd like to try.
Again, See my responses above in red... Navy text are hyperlinks, click on them to view products or articles mentioned.
^See my responses above in red... Navy text are hyperlinks, click on them to view products or articles mentioned.
Again, See my responses above in red... Navy text are hyperlinks, click on them to view products or articles mentioned.
Please let me know if you have any questions.
-Zach
Hi Zach,
Thank you for the very informative response I really do appreciate it. A few more questions:
1. Test spots - Lets say I did a test spot with SF4000 with a white polishing pad and it didn't remove all of the defects.
If I were to use a more aggressive polish, should I do this on a new test spot or the one I just worked on?
2. Using a DAT product, would I need to adjust my polishing process? ie. Prime pad (you said this was not necessary), different pressure? Do I need to spread the product across the panel first? Would I need to switch to new pads more often? Or would I still follow the regular polishing process with DA.
Thank you for the very informative response I really do appreciate it. A few more questions:
1. Test spots - Lets say I did a test spot with SF4000 with a white polishing pad and it didn't remove all of the defects.
If I were to use a more aggressive polish, should I do this on a new test spot or the one I just worked on? Yes, you typically would start a new test spot next to the previous one. I typically mark off square sections on the hood or trunk in order to compare the results of my test spots right next to one another.
2. Using a DAT product, would I need to adjust my polishing process? ie. Prime pad (you said this was not necessary), different pressure? Do I need to spread the product across the panel first? Would I need to switch to new pads more often? Or would I still follow the regular polishing process with DA. Not really... it just helps to know which type of product you are working with DAT vs SMAT. In some cases, you may find you need to do more passes (ie 6 passes instead of 4) to allow the DAT polish to break down even more and therefore finish better, however this is not always the case. Yes, you should spread the product across the panel before starting so that you have an even distribution of abrasives to start with... you can do this by simply spreading the product on speed 1-2 on the machine, or by dabbing the product across your section. I will post a video below of me working with Menzerna PF2500 on an alpine white 335i. You will notice that I dabbed the product across the panel before starting. You would not have to switch pads any more frequently than you may have to with another product... in general, you should brush your pad clean after each section regardless of which product you are using (especially when compounding) because you are removing a lot more material than you are when you are simply doing a light polish, therefore your pad will become saturated with both product and clear coat that you are removing. As your pad becomes 'gunked up' it will become less effective, so cleaning it regularly during the correction process will get more life out of each pad before you need to switch. I switch quite often simply because I have a large collection of pads, so why not
Ahh okay, thanks for the video that was helpful. Another question.. with DAT product is there a 'secret' way of telling when I've done enough passes or is 6 the average number?
I got some pictures of the swirls on my car.. pretty much looks like this all over the car. Would this be considered heavily swirled?
Sorry crappy quality with iPhone camera. Thanks again your responses have been incredibly helpful.
Ahh okay, thanks for the video that was helpful. Another question.. with DAT product is there a 'secret' way of telling when I've done enough passes or is 6 the average number? Nope... perhaps I shouldn't have even mentioned it... I guess the point I was trying to make with DAT is that if you notice the product is not finishing down nicely, you can try making more passes to see if the abrasives will break down further and therefore produce a better finish. Otherwise, 4-6 passes is usually pretty standard with any type of polish depending on the amount of cut you need.
I got some pictures of the swirls on my car.. pretty much looks like this all over the car. Would this be considered heavily swirled?
...
Sorry crappy quality with iPhone camera. Thanks again your responses have been incredibly helpful.
I have certainly seen much worse, but I would call your vehicle to be quite swirled. Many of the defects appear to be deeper than just normal light wash induced swirls, so it is likely that you will need to do a 2 step correction starting with the heavier cutting compound, but you never know, so do your test spot starting with the lease aggressive method just to be safe.
Remember, there will always be defects that are too deep to remove easily with machine polishing... especially when you are examining your paint under harsh, direct lighting. A 2 step correction should yield an incredible transformation and will no doubt restore the lost clarity and gloss to the finish, even if there are some remaining defects, so don't expect absolute perfection on every panel
Be sure to take some pics and share them with us!
... and let me know if you have any more questions
I have certainly seen much worse, but I would call your vehicle to be quite swirled. Many of the defects appear to be deeper than just normal light wash induced swirls, so it is likely that you will need to do a 2 step correction starting with the heavier cutting compound, but you never know, so do your test spot starting with the lease aggressive method just to be safe.
Remember, there will always be defects that are too deep to remove easily with machine polishing... especially when you are examining your paint under harsh, direct lighting. A 2 step correction should yield an incredible transformation and will no doubt restore the lost clarity and gloss to the finish, even if there are some remaining defects, so don't expect absolute perfection on every panel
Be sure to take some pics and share them with us!
... and let me know if you have any more questions
-Zach
Thank you Zach! You have been very helpful. I'm trying to find a weekend to do my ISF.. boy is it tough to get a free weekend. I'll definitely get some pics of the process and let you guys know how it goes.
Thank you Zach! You have been very helpful. I'm trying to find a weekend to do my ISF.. boy is it tough to get a free weekend. I'll definitely get some pics of the process and let you guys know how it goes.
I finally got a chance to start working on my car. Here is a pic of the correction:
This is with FG400/Orange pad combo, roughly 6-8 passes yielded these results. Very impressed but my technique could have been a lot better to prevent over dusting.I am going to finish it off with SF4500/black pad and p21s carnauba wax.. I may look into a sealant though as well.
Very nice improvement. I need to get on my newly purchased USB in the near future as well. The condition is similar to yours
As you can not get ahold of Opticoat Pro or Cquartz Finest, I'd recommend getting the new Optimum Glosscoat.
2-3(+) years of protection, looks great, feels great, and beads great.
Application is not much more difficult than a WOWA sealant
Very nice improvement. I need to get on my newly purchased USB in the near future as well. The condition is similar to yours
As you can not get ahold of Opticoat Pro or Cquartz Finest, I'd recommend getting the new Optimum Glosscoat.
2-3(+) years of protection, looks great, feels great, and beads great.
Application is not much more difficult than a WOWA sealant
WOWA = Wipe On, Walk Away ... GlossCoat does require some removal as there are likely to be high spots that need to be leveled.
I just used Optimum GlossCoat for the first time this past weekend and it was easy to work with, as expected. The only flaw I have found with that product is the price. For the price, you can purchase many other well known and well respected paint coatings for less money.
WOWA = Wipe On, Walk Away ... GlossCoat does require some removal as there are likely to be high spots that need to be leveled.
I just used Optimum GlossCoat for the first time this past weekend and it was easy to work with, as expected. The only flaw I have found with that product is the price. For the price, you can purchase many other well known and well respected paint coatings for less money.
I was thinking of either putting a sealant or wax on for now. Which route would you suggest?
Sealant = longer lasting protection vs. Wax? Would applying a sealant be the same method as polish but obviously with a different kind of pad?
I searched around and possible options: Blackfire Wet Diamond, Menzerna Powerlock?
08-20-14, 01:34 PM
Ultrasonic Blue ISF detail questions
While it is true that correction will certainly remove any existing LSP on the car, it is often beneficial to remove as much of it during the cleaning & decontamination process as possible because waxes, sealants, and glazes that may be on the surface can hide or mask defects and it is important that you understand exactly what you are working on when you inspect the paint after the washing & decontamination process. So, I would not recommend using dawn (I have never been a fan of that), but I would recommend spraying each panel with an all purpose cleaner like P21S Total Auto Wash (<- since you seem to like P21S) or Meguiar's D101 prior to washing. Dilute these products with distilled water (4 parts water : 1 part product should be just fine for this situation), spray onto a panel, allow it to dwell for 30 seconds or so (do not let it dry!) and then wash and rinse the panel thoroughly. 
