stanjohn12

jfelbab I just found out I have warranty for my car till the end of 2012. Do you think I can claim this under warranty saying that it happened through normal wear and tear.

Anyways I'll try what you have also suggested but I've never used that stuff Woolite and don't know where to get it from even. So will need some hunting to do this weekend as well. To me it looks like a fade 90 % but another 30 % wants me to believe that this is just a dark spot which will go off. I just hope whatever it is , it gets covered under warranty

I guess I just keep repeating the same thing, sorry guys I'm really pissed off at myself and a little bit with Meguiars as well.

Lust4Lexus

I have read your last two posts. I am not trying to upset you, just speaking frankly......

1st- owner bought it new, but had no idea how long the warranty was on his new lexus...

2nd- based on the pictures you posted, I'm not sure that Lexus will agree that there is any "Failure" of the leather and may say that it's normal wear and tear.

I understand your frustration, but look at it this way. I could compound my car with a makita polisher and 3M compound and burn through the clearcoat, and take it to lexus and say my paint "failed". Lexus would laugh at me. Do you see where I am going with this?

It's worth a shot, but what do you expect lexus to do? The fix may be worse than the problem..... Just a thought. Let us know what they say.

jfelbab

I think we all understand your frustration. I can't say whether your car would be covered under warranty or not but it won't hurt to ask.

Woolite is a liquid laundry detergent product made for cleaning delicate items like wool. It is available in most grocery stores. There are a few different types but the product you want is the original one. The Lexus owners manual specifically says to use a diluted detergent used of wool for cleaning of the leather.

From my Lexus owners manual (FWIW, my leather is light tan but not as light in color as yours)
Woolite is such a detergent as recommended and it does a pretty nice job of cleaning leather safely.

Mix the Woolite (about 1:10 or 1:20) with some warm water. The process is to use a soft foam applicator. Dip it in the dilution and squeeze out the excess detergent mixture and squeeze the pad several times to work up a lot of foam. Gently rub a small 1' x 1' area in a circular motion. Don't rub hard and take care to not over wet the leather, especially the perforated areas and stitching. Let the detergent mix / foam loosen any dirt and grime. Let the foam dwell for a minute or two to soften and loosen any grime then wipe up with a clean white 100% cotton towel. As you wipe over perforated areas try to turn the towel as you wipe so as to pick up the foam and not drive it down through the perforations. Examine the towel for traces of dirt or perhaps dye color. You should only see some dirt if things are ok with your leather topcoat. If you see dye color your topcoat is compromised. Let me know if you see dye color and we can deal with that issue. Examine the area you just cleaned and see of all the dirt has been removed. Occasionally a soft (emphasis on soft) nylon brush can be used to loosen stubborn persistent dirt. If you do resort to using a brush be very gentle with it. You are scrubbing soft paint not a floor so gentle is the key word if you use a brush. I believe you said the prior owner used a brush and that may be the reason for your issues.

Next wet another white cotton towel and wring it out well. Wipe down the leather you have just cleaned to remove all traces of the detergent. Pay special attention around the seams. Lastly use another dry white 100% cotton towel to gently buff the leather dry. Let the leather air dry for an hour or more and inspect the area. Let me know what it looks like. Take another close-up photo of the damaged area after the leather has completely dried.

If the spots remain after this process look at them closely and try to determine if the water made them appear darker. This would indicate that the leather topcoat has been abraded and is not keeping the moisture or conditioning oils from getting through to the dye or split leather underneath.

I'd like to hear from you after you have finished the cleaning and drying steps here before proceeding with any further work.

If the leather cleaned up and looks like you expect it should, smile and be happy. If not we will move to the next step.

Assuming the leather is now clean, it would be appropriate to apply a leather protectant to stop the dye transfer that prompted you to clean the seats originally. I use Leather Master Leather Protection Cream for this but there are some other protection products. LTT Solutions has a good one as well.

stanjohn12

Hi jfelbab , I used your magnifier technique and found out that it is not a spot. I can see edges around it and the leather seems to have gone. I'm talking about the photos which I've posted last and that is from the front passenger seat.

You are right , Gold class couldn't have done it. It seems like a coin or button scratched it and I couldn't see it until Gold class took the dirt from above it and I used the magnifier of course.

So now my question is what should I do ,I'm scared if I use Gold class cleaner on my remaining seats the dirt would go but it would uncover all the fade and slight leather defects.

I tried searching for the woolite detergetnt in my local supermarket today morning but could not find it. Need to go to some really good stores to find woolite in the evening.

stanjohn12

The 1st guy has like 10 cars in his home. I'm amazed how he even remembered to service this car on right intervals. I verified it from Lexus on his service history.

Yeah even I think it's wishing for a lot since the damage is not so apparent. Honestly I'm a little embarrassed to ask them too. But if you guys do know someone here who has replaced his leather seats under warranty please let me know so I can PM him or else I will just try to fix these defects myself with your valuable inputs.

jfelbab

Here are some options for you. Since I'm pretty sure that the damage is isolated to some localized spots it can be fixed. Where are you located?

I'd not apply any more Gold Class conditioner or any other brand of conditioner either. These conditioners are oily, waxy or contain silicones or chemicals that may interfere with the bonding of the topcoat surrounding the damage and could actually make the damage expand.

You basically have several options, First, since this obviously is a major issue for you (it would be for me as well), take it to your Lexus dealer and ask them if they can have their leather repair specialist look at it. The areas are small and I doubt it would be that expensive to repair. They may even offer to cover or partially split the cost of the fix as a goodwill gesture since the damage was there and hidden when you bought the car. Be polite, courteous and respectful in this request and hope for the best.

Second, you can also seek out your own local leather restoration specialist. ff you don't see one in the phone book ask at a higher end leather furniture store who they use. They always know a good restoration expert that does work for them.

Thirdly, you can purchase the materials and attempt a repair on your own, but lacking experience in leather repair, the results may not be invisible and may not last.

I'd first ask the Lexus dealership to have it looked at since I suspect you want it perfect and if there is an issue with the repair down the road you have a reputable source for a remedy. They likely use a local auto upholstery jobber in the area.

The second option is to seek out that local specialist directly. This is also a good choice as they would likely be less expensive than going through Lexus but you would need to be aware if there is any guarantee on the workmanship. In some cases this might be the same guy repairing the damage as the first option.

The third route would mean that you need to purchase various materials to attempt the restoral yourself. You would need a pre-cleaner, the proper color dye and a good eye for color matching, You'd need a grain matcher. You need to reapply a topcoat back over the repair. You can't just apply a topcoat or it will have no grain and a different patina. You basically want to clean the spots and get rid of any oils, redye and recoat the repair. You can make the problem look better in a DIY but probably not completely disappear.

There are leather restoration kits available. Here is one source: http://www.leatherworldtech.com/Depa...ring-Kits.aspx.

I suspect you'd probably want this done right and be a permanent fix that is not noticeable every time you enter the car. If so, I'd suggest you opt for either of the first two options, at least get quotes. The third option, the DIY fix, can be good but you might need to re-do it over time and the repair may not be totally imperceptible. It takes a lot of experience to repair leather properly and you can't get that type of experience from reading an instruction pamplhet, IMO. You also have to have a precise eye toward color matching in most cases. This is a learned skill and for most DIYers, doesn't come easily. As with any DIY project, the first rule is "Don't make things worse."

If you can give your general location (City) I, or another reader here, may be able to recommend someone.

Finally, don't let these small imperfections interfere with your enjoyment of a fine car. One might even look at these as character marks. Well maybe not, but those marks are pretty small and life is pretty short, too short, IMHO, to be stressing over the small things that annoy us. No?

Whatever you choice, I'd suggest a weekly wipe down of your leather with a damp microfiber or one lightly misted with Meguiar's QID to remove all dust, grime and oils. The QID leaves a UV protectant. I also suggest a deeper cleaning every month or two using a cleaner like Woolite or Leather Masters Strong Leather Cleaner and a protectant like Leather Masters Protection Cream. Forget the conditioners. Another company that makes a good leather protector is LTT Solutions.

Lust4Lexus

Yeah I totally understand where your coming from. When you have a nice car it is easy to become OCD with it. I actually keep a swiffer in my glovebox and use it on my dash as soon as a slight amount of dust creeps up.

If and when you get this taken care of, I would suggest keeping the leather clean all the time, by using a quick inerior detalier weekly. It will keep the dust and grit that grinds into your leather, making bigger cleanups far and between.

I hope they take care of it, but if I had to put money on it, I would unfortunately say that they wont. Lots of people don't understand the different frequency that Lexus owners run on. it is usually the 2nd owners that take even BETTER care of the car than the first. My car was in great shape when I picked it up from Lexus. Whenever, it goes in for service, the service dept "knows" my car and that a "psycho" owns it. So they are extra careful with it. They probably scoff at me behind my back, LOL.

The downside to all this is owning something that winds up owning you. I know that you will be upset if they don't do anything for you, but trust me, you'll get over it as time goes on. It's just a car.......I can't believe I, of all people, just said that. If only I could practice what I preach.

stanjohn12

I'm in a country called Kuwait.

Point taken. No more cleaners or conditioners.

Yes I am desperately going to try this option out but I really do not know how experienced these guys are in dealing with Leather even at the dealership here. But in Kuwait Lexus has the best reputation for customer service, so fingers crossed. I hope they fix it without any hassle.

I already started searching for leather specialists. They are very rare here and even if I do find one I don't know how well he'd be able to get the job done and if there would be any guarantee for it.

No more DIY for me, I've done enough damage already



I'm in Kuwait I doubt anyone else here would be from this country.

You're absolutely right , I should probably just overlook this small imperfection even if it does not get fixed. It's on the passenger side and 90% of the time I drive alone. The remaining 10 % i take my parents along. So chances of getting it worse are less too.

What is Meguiars QID ? How is it different from the Gold Class cleaner that I have now ?. I thought maybe after this issue I would use nothing but micro fibers or terry towels dipped in warm water , squeeze the water out and wipe the seats gently and mildly.

I went hunting few good stores here in the country and the best brands mentioned in CL that I could find here were Lexol Cleaner and conditioner. Could not find Leatherique or Leather Masters. And I did find mothers care leather conditioner too but I don't know how good that is.

I haven't seen any leather protector creams as well. Isn't a conditioner good enough for protecting ?

stanjohn12

Alright now I'm not that bad/crazy lol.

Definitely will take good care of the seats even if I'm not able to fix this small issue. I love my car dude just like all you guys here.


I guess you're right about the owning me part but I'm sure you don't mean what you said next ( It's just a car... )

Will keep you guys updated on whatever happens. I've just written to the dealership, hopefully they will reply back this week or else I'll just call and bug them.

jfelbab

I don't know anyone in Kuwait so no help with a referral there.

Meguiar's Quik Interior Detailer:
I'd continue to clean your leather but conditioners, as a class, are a total fail for protected leathers. QID is a very popular interior cleaner that does have UV protection. It does not add any gloss and does not make the seats slippery. It works equally well on the dash and interior vinyl. I use it on the gauges and the NAV LCD screen too. Spray on a clean plush microfiber and gently wipe. QID is a gentle cleaner that is not designed to remove heavy soiling hence you still need to do periodic deep cleaning of your leather.

I'd continue to deep clean your leather every month or two. If you can't find Woolite or Leather Masters cleaner, I'd suggest buying the leather cleaner spray that Lexus sells. It works fine for cleaning.

Leather conditioners are, IME a total waste of time on protected leather. Protected leather is really better called painted leather. The leather, a split hide, is dyed and painted with urethane that gives a uniform color and grain pattern to the surface. When you look at your leather you are actually looking at paint. When this leather gets soiled it is the paint that is soiled. The split leather is nothing but the carrier for the painted surface. If you have ever seen what the split leather hyde under this paint looks like you would not buy leather. It is really ugly. When your leather coating develops cracks or has abrasions that scrape off the topcoat you are seeing what is underneath.

Conditioners grew out of a need to treat top-grain uncoated leathers. Conditioners are typically oily, greasy, waxy or full of silicones. They will not penetrate the urethane paint to reach the leather and so they sit on the leather. They evaporate, or when wiped off, leave a thin film of these oils that actually attract soil and hold on to it. This makes the coating more prone to abrasion as you slide in and out of the seats. Dirt is the enemy of leather. Conditioners claim to soften leather but leather is made soft in the tanning process and the proper amount of hydration will keep it soft and supple. This moisture is delivered via regular cleaning. If you use soft, clean, 100% cotton towels to clean your leather, remove any detergent via another wring-out cotton towel and your leather will look good for years. In hot, arid climates more frequent cleaning is desired to maintain the leather's softness. You can't clean your leather too frequently if using these products, towels and procedures.

As you have already discovered, the leather topcoat is not impervious to dye transfer. This happens with contact from some clothing. Jeans, some jackets, leather belts all can transfer their dye into your urethane topcoat. Thats the reason for using a leather protector. If you can't find it locally, get it via mail order. This will prevent dye transfer and makes spills and stains easy to clean up. Think of it like a sealant for your paint because in fact it is. It will offer protection in the same way as a sealant does on your paint. A conditioner would be something like an oily glaze. Contitioner will leave a sheen or patina to the leather and often a hand or feel that some like but you are feeling the film left behind not the leather. Your leather should be silky smooth and dry to the touch, with no grabby or slipper feel.

Ok, more about leather than you probably wanted to read about.

Keep us posted.

stanjohn12

Oh my God , how do you know so much about Leather ? Simply great and thanks a lot for all this info man. Couldn't have gotten it from anywhere or anyone else.

I was actually thinking conditioners were the protectors and was planning to get the Lexol conditioner , thank God I was patient to read your posts or I would have wasted my money again foolishly. I'll try to get the leather protector somehow.

I think I've seen the Meguiars QID somewhere will get that too. Thank you very very much. Appreciate all your advises a lot and will keep you posted for sure jfelbab.

jfelbab

Glad to help.

One thing about advice. If you ask a dozen detailers for advice, you will likely get a dozen different answers. This is my answer based on my 52 years of detailing experiences. Doesn't make it the only solution that will work but it has passed the test of time for me.

Here is the best advice I can offer... If you find something that works better for you, then that is the right solution for you. Always try to keep an open mind, but test new products and processes on a beater or on an inconspicuous area before committing to the whole solution. Lastly, if you are trying a new product that comes highly recommended from a lot of people and it doesn't seem to work well for you, try to isolate why. Chances are it could be due to technique and you may just need to dig a bit deeper for the gold.

LeX2K

A leather "conditioner" like Leatherique does indeed soften the leather. The top parts of my back seats were very dry and hard, two treatments later the leather is supple again. The product also made all the leather softer. I don't know exactly what you mean by "hydration", but if you mean leather is kept soft by using water, this is definately not the case, leather is kept soft and healthy by maintaining the natural oils, not by getting it wet.

jfelbab

Both I and many highly respected leather experts around he world disagree with your opinion. If your seats got softer, it was due to the H2O content of the conditioner. No oils in a conditioner would or could penetrate the urethane topcoat on your leather. The oil molecules are simply too large to get through (transpire) the urethane coating. Do some in-depth research on the subject and you will see that this is not just my opinion, but that of the American Leather Chemists Association, (ALCA) and numerous leather professionals in the leather care industry.

Some leathers can be hard. If they were supple when new, water wipe-downs over a few days time will restore the original softness. This repetitive application of water will, over time, rehydrate the leather and soften it to its original softness. As I mentioned, a leathers hardness/softness is determined in the tanning process. The tanning process in use today is such that the oils just don't migrate out of the leather. Water is a different matter. Proper hydration will keep your leather at that original softness level. No conditioner can add oils to protected leather. Moisture yes, oils no.

According to the ALCA "If the seats are coated leather do not use conditioners unless thay are purely water based as the oils and waxes will not help and may just attract more dirt to the surface."

All that said, if you think it works, its your car. Go for it and be happy with the results.

LeX2K

I don't claim to know all the science behind it. But I do know that Leatherique is a mixture of water, colligens and oils. I highly doubt they would bother to put all of that in there if all you needed was good old water to restore leather. And I'm also a bit confused by what you're saying about the polyurethane coating on leather. You say that waxes and silicones are no good, but why not? These coatings work very well on poly, and if they really don't penetrate the coating as you say, then it certainly would not harm the leather in any way.

BTW, I washed my seats repeatedly when I first got the car in an attempt to get out the ground in dirt, they never came completely clean. And they never got any softer, in fact they seemed to get even drier and felt harder to me. Treating them with Leatherique brought them back to life, nothing else I tried had the same result. Also, the leather is not coated on both sides, so they can most definitely dry out. And I know that the leather does dry out, the tops of my back seats were to the point where they were like cardboard, the car spent a lot of time in the sun and that area got direct sunlight for a large part of the day.