Swirl Marks!!!!
07-24-08, 04:26 PM
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Swirl Marks!!!!
I have a Matador Red Mica and Ive only had it for about 2 months. Today I noticed that there are swirl marks all over the car. I have no idea where they came from. Can someone please tell me how to get rid of them. Ive tried everything and nothing works.
P.S. please don't tell me to use something if you dont know for sure that it works.
P.S. please don't tell me to use something if you dont know for sure that it works.
07-24-08, 05:36 PM
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Sounds like "free" gift from the dealer. If you don't have the time, I'd recommend taking it to a reputable detailer in your area to have them removed.
If you want to do it yourself, a medium polish, like Menzerna 106FF or Chemical Guys All-In-One would be my recommendations.
Use a florescent or halogen light to check your work to make sure all the swirls are gone before protecting it.
If you want to do it yourself, a medium polish, like Menzerna 106FF or Chemical Guys All-In-One would be my recommendations.
Use a florescent or halogen light to check your work to make sure all the swirls are gone before protecting it.
07-24-08, 05:40 PM
#3
Swirl marks typically come form improper washing and drying techniques. Do you use a machine wash? If you wash the car yourself do you use the two bucket method? Do use grit guards? How do you dry the car? The safest method is to use low water flow to sheet off as much water as possible then blot the remaining water with waffle-weave microfiber towels.
Unless you get on top of the washing and drying techniques you will have swirls.
To get rid of swirls you have a couple viable choices.
1. take it to a quality professional detailer,
2. do it yourself.
I you want do it yourself you should plan on purchasing a dual action polisher and a few polishes and pads. You can purchase a Porter Cable 7336 or 7424 polisher for about $100. Add to that a few polishing pads ($30) and a couple polishes ($40).
There are a few good videos on youtube that show the polishing process.
If you are thinking that you want to attempt this by hand Meguiar's Scratch will work but you should buy a large tube of BenGay because you will need it.
Here is what I do.
I've posted this before but I updated it recently and you might find it useful.
I can tell you what I do. I've developed my "best practices" over 47 years of detailing and they are constantly evolving as new products come to market. But, bear in mind that there are a lot of right answers and a lot of good products to choose from. This is what works for me and I'm of the opinion that you should to find what works for you and stick with it. If you are **** about how your car looks then this process should work for you as well as it does for me. An important fact to remember, it is the process that is the key to stunning results and the products are secondary to the process.
Typically, every 3-4 months I do a complete detail on my personal cars. The timing depends on the environment and how the car was kept. The detail entails a Wash, Clay, Polish, (optional Glaze) and Wax or Sealant. Once I have done a complete detail I maintain by washing every week and applying a spray booster product after every wash. This maintains the freshly detailed look and well as restoring the slickness to the paint. This has the added benefit of making the paint resist dirt and grime hence it is easier to keep clean.
Washing - An occasional run through a touchless Laser Automatic Wash won't damage the finish during periods of inclement weather but I avoid any cloth automatic wash or washes that towel dry your car. I prefer washing it myself using a good car wash like Meguiar's NXT Tech Wash.
I never use a dishwashing detergent on my vehicles as it is not as good as a car wash. It is designed to remove grease from dishes, not dirt from paint.
I use two 5 gallon buckets with grit guards (one for soap and one for rinsing the mitt) and I measure the precise amount of car wash concentrate to use. Using too much will shorten the life of the wax or sealant.
I always wash my car in the shade when the paint is cool to the touch so that I don't develop hard water spots which can be difficult to remove.
I buy new sheepskin wash mitts every few months and keep them spotless. I don't use the same mitt that I wash my wheels and rocker panels with to wash my paint. Older mitts get this dirtier task.
I dry my vehicle using an open hose and low pressure flow to sheet off as much water as I can then I gently dry with waffle-weave microfiber towels (Meguiar's Water Magnet). I consider these much better at absorbing water and not marring the paint than a chamois.
I now inspect the paint to see what steps are needed to restore the paint.
Clay - Even new cars can benefit from clay. I lightly draw my dry fingertips over the paint on my hood after it has been washed and dried. If it doesn't feel as smooth as glass I clay. I prefer Meguiar's Smooth Surface Clay Kit but others (Mothers, Clay Magic, etc.) also make good kits. I like the Meg's kit because it comes with a premium Microfiber towel as well as a plastic case to store the unused clay.
I cut the clay bar into two or three pieces and put the unused pieces in the plastic box. If (when) I drop a piece of clay when using it I throw it away and fetch one of the unused pieces. I use lots of the supplied Quik Detailer lube. I clay a 2' x 2' section at a time and test with my fingertips to insure that the contaminants are gone. As the clay gets dirty I fold it and re-kneed it into a pad and continue the process.
I clay my paint then move on and clay the windows and finally the wheels and exhaust tips. I toss the piece of clay when I have finished as it is now qute contaminated and should not be used back on paint again.
Cleaning and Polishing - I use a paint cleaner or a combination cleaner/polish product to remove stains and grime that is imbedded in the paint pores. I like Meguiar's #80 (Speed Glaze) for this but the Megs Deep Crystal #1 Cleaner and #2 Polish are also fine if you prefer OTC products.
On a new car these cleaning and polishing steps might not be needed.
If you can afford a buffer look for a good dual action orbital type. Don't expect much from the cheap $30 stuff on the market. They might apply a wax ok but they don't have the power needed to remove defects from paint effectively. A rotary buffer can damage your paint in an instant if you are not skilled in it's use and paint repair costs a lot of money. OTOH, it is nearly impossible to harm your paint with a good DA orbital buffer and foam pads. You can use a DA buffer to polish your paint very frequently with no fear of removing too much paint. I use a Porter-Cable 7336 that is now 11 years old and going strong. One of the best detailing tools I ever bought, it cuts the time by a factor of 10 over polishing by hand.
Waxing/Sealing - Now that the finish is looking it's best, I seal it to protect the look. It is important to note that a wax or sealant imparts very little to the overall look. Most of the appearance (90%) comes from the previous polishing stage in your preparation.
It is commonly felt that if you live in a very hot area of the country, a polymer sealant may be a better choice than a carnauba wax. Tests show that pure carnauba wax begins to evaporate at 160° F, a temperature paint surfaces easily can reach. Most carnauba waxes are not pure carnauba but polymer sealants do have a much higher resistance to heat.
For sealants, I like Meguiar's NXT Tech Wax 2.0 or Meguiar's #21 2.0 (Synthetic Sealant). Their wetlook shine is as good or better than any other product I've used. If you prefer the warm glow of a carnauba by all means use it. Plan on applying carnaubas more frequently in hot climates to keep the protection intact. Meguiar's Hi-Tech Yellow Wax (#26) is my choice for a very nice carnauba that leaves a warm glow to the paint.
A polymer sealant is a great product for wheels too. It resists brake dust and wheels stay clean longer and clean up easier. I like Meguiar's Quik Wheel Detailer for this purpose as it is extremely slippery and brake dust hardly sticks to it. I spray on a MF towel and apply to the wheel and buff.
Leather - I use a leather cleaner and a conditioner at least monthly during the summer months to keep it clean, supple and to prevent it from drying out. Lexus sells great products for cleaning and conditioning the leather.
Interior - For interior detailing I prefer Meguiar's Quik Interior Detailer. This is a product that doesn't add gloss or leave an oily residue. It leaves the interior looking like new. It doesn't make the dash glossy so that it is reflecting glare. This product also has UV protection to slow aging and prevent sun damage.
Tires - It is important to clean the tires well prior to application of any dressing. I don't like chemical tire/wheel cleaners as they will remove most or all of the wax or sealant on the wheels. Instead I use either a stiff brush and car wash soap or my pressure washer. The latter makes short work of tire grunge. I also use the pressure washer for the wheel wells. I let the tires dry fully then apply a thin coat of Meguiar's Hot Shine (trigger spray). I pay particular attention to keeping the coating thin and even. I spray on the tire and wipe it with a clean terry cloth to remove excess. I carefully wipe out the tire sipes to minimize any potential for it to sling onto my paint.
Maintenance - Finally, I maintain the exterior paint with a spray booster product. There are several products here that work well. I use Meguiar's Ultimate Quik Detailer (UQD) after every wash. This stuff applies in about 10 - 15 minutes and leaves the paint very slick with that freshly detailed look. The added slickness afforded by this approach greatly aids in preventing bugs and dirt from sticking to the paint and makes the car almost self cleaning.
I also keep a bottle of Quik Detailer and a few microfiber towels in the car to use to remove bird droppings, bugs or other messes as soon as they occur. Bugs and bird droppings will often permanently etch paint if not removed promptly.
As a last note, swirls and cobwebs are easier to prevent than to remove. Everything that touches the paint can cause marring so I take great care to use impeccably clean towels and applicators and minimize, as much as possible, any unnecessary contact with the paint.
Unless you get on top of the washing and drying techniques you will have swirls.
To get rid of swirls you have a couple viable choices.
1. take it to a quality professional detailer,
2. do it yourself.
I you want do it yourself you should plan on purchasing a dual action polisher and a few polishes and pads. You can purchase a Porter Cable 7336 or 7424 polisher for about $100. Add to that a few polishing pads ($30) and a couple polishes ($40).
There are a few good videos on youtube that show the polishing process.
If you are thinking that you want to attempt this by hand Meguiar's Scratch will work but you should buy a large tube of BenGay because you will need it.
Here is what I do.
I've posted this before but I updated it recently and you might find it useful.
I can tell you what I do. I've developed my "best practices" over 47 years of detailing and they are constantly evolving as new products come to market. But, bear in mind that there are a lot of right answers and a lot of good products to choose from. This is what works for me and I'm of the opinion that you should to find what works for you and stick with it. If you are **** about how your car looks then this process should work for you as well as it does for me. An important fact to remember, it is the process that is the key to stunning results and the products are secondary to the process.
Typically, every 3-4 months I do a complete detail on my personal cars. The timing depends on the environment and how the car was kept. The detail entails a Wash, Clay, Polish, (optional Glaze) and Wax or Sealant. Once I have done a complete detail I maintain by washing every week and applying a spray booster product after every wash. This maintains the freshly detailed look and well as restoring the slickness to the paint. This has the added benefit of making the paint resist dirt and grime hence it is easier to keep clean.
Washing - An occasional run through a touchless Laser Automatic Wash won't damage the finish during periods of inclement weather but I avoid any cloth automatic wash or washes that towel dry your car. I prefer washing it myself using a good car wash like Meguiar's NXT Tech Wash.
I never use a dishwashing detergent on my vehicles as it is not as good as a car wash. It is designed to remove grease from dishes, not dirt from paint.
I use two 5 gallon buckets with grit guards (one for soap and one for rinsing the mitt) and I measure the precise amount of car wash concentrate to use. Using too much will shorten the life of the wax or sealant.
I always wash my car in the shade when the paint is cool to the touch so that I don't develop hard water spots which can be difficult to remove.
I buy new sheepskin wash mitts every few months and keep them spotless. I don't use the same mitt that I wash my wheels and rocker panels with to wash my paint. Older mitts get this dirtier task.
I dry my vehicle using an open hose and low pressure flow to sheet off as much water as I can then I gently dry with waffle-weave microfiber towels (Meguiar's Water Magnet). I consider these much better at absorbing water and not marring the paint than a chamois.
I now inspect the paint to see what steps are needed to restore the paint.
Clay - Even new cars can benefit from clay. I lightly draw my dry fingertips over the paint on my hood after it has been washed and dried. If it doesn't feel as smooth as glass I clay. I prefer Meguiar's Smooth Surface Clay Kit but others (Mothers, Clay Magic, etc.) also make good kits. I like the Meg's kit because it comes with a premium Microfiber towel as well as a plastic case to store the unused clay.
I cut the clay bar into two or three pieces and put the unused pieces in the plastic box. If (when) I drop a piece of clay when using it I throw it away and fetch one of the unused pieces. I use lots of the supplied Quik Detailer lube. I clay a 2' x 2' section at a time and test with my fingertips to insure that the contaminants are gone. As the clay gets dirty I fold it and re-kneed it into a pad and continue the process.
I clay my paint then move on and clay the windows and finally the wheels and exhaust tips. I toss the piece of clay when I have finished as it is now qute contaminated and should not be used back on paint again.
Cleaning and Polishing - I use a paint cleaner or a combination cleaner/polish product to remove stains and grime that is imbedded in the paint pores. I like Meguiar's #80 (Speed Glaze) for this but the Megs Deep Crystal #1 Cleaner and #2 Polish are also fine if you prefer OTC products.
On a new car these cleaning and polishing steps might not be needed.
If you can afford a buffer look for a good dual action orbital type. Don't expect much from the cheap $30 stuff on the market. They might apply a wax ok but they don't have the power needed to remove defects from paint effectively. A rotary buffer can damage your paint in an instant if you are not skilled in it's use and paint repair costs a lot of money. OTOH, it is nearly impossible to harm your paint with a good DA orbital buffer and foam pads. You can use a DA buffer to polish your paint very frequently with no fear of removing too much paint. I use a Porter-Cable 7336 that is now 11 years old and going strong. One of the best detailing tools I ever bought, it cuts the time by a factor of 10 over polishing by hand.
Waxing/Sealing - Now that the finish is looking it's best, I seal it to protect the look. It is important to note that a wax or sealant imparts very little to the overall look. Most of the appearance (90%) comes from the previous polishing stage in your preparation.
It is commonly felt that if you live in a very hot area of the country, a polymer sealant may be a better choice than a carnauba wax. Tests show that pure carnauba wax begins to evaporate at 160° F, a temperature paint surfaces easily can reach. Most carnauba waxes are not pure carnauba but polymer sealants do have a much higher resistance to heat.
For sealants, I like Meguiar's NXT Tech Wax 2.0 or Meguiar's #21 2.0 (Synthetic Sealant). Their wetlook shine is as good or better than any other product I've used. If you prefer the warm glow of a carnauba by all means use it. Plan on applying carnaubas more frequently in hot climates to keep the protection intact. Meguiar's Hi-Tech Yellow Wax (#26) is my choice for a very nice carnauba that leaves a warm glow to the paint.
A polymer sealant is a great product for wheels too. It resists brake dust and wheels stay clean longer and clean up easier. I like Meguiar's Quik Wheel Detailer for this purpose as it is extremely slippery and brake dust hardly sticks to it. I spray on a MF towel and apply to the wheel and buff.
Leather - I use a leather cleaner and a conditioner at least monthly during the summer months to keep it clean, supple and to prevent it from drying out. Lexus sells great products for cleaning and conditioning the leather.
Interior - For interior detailing I prefer Meguiar's Quik Interior Detailer. This is a product that doesn't add gloss or leave an oily residue. It leaves the interior looking like new. It doesn't make the dash glossy so that it is reflecting glare. This product also has UV protection to slow aging and prevent sun damage.
Tires - It is important to clean the tires well prior to application of any dressing. I don't like chemical tire/wheel cleaners as they will remove most or all of the wax or sealant on the wheels. Instead I use either a stiff brush and car wash soap or my pressure washer. The latter makes short work of tire grunge. I also use the pressure washer for the wheel wells. I let the tires dry fully then apply a thin coat of Meguiar's Hot Shine (trigger spray). I pay particular attention to keeping the coating thin and even. I spray on the tire and wipe it with a clean terry cloth to remove excess. I carefully wipe out the tire sipes to minimize any potential for it to sling onto my paint.
Maintenance - Finally, I maintain the exterior paint with a spray booster product. There are several products here that work well. I use Meguiar's Ultimate Quik Detailer (UQD) after every wash. This stuff applies in about 10 - 15 minutes and leaves the paint very slick with that freshly detailed look. The added slickness afforded by this approach greatly aids in preventing bugs and dirt from sticking to the paint and makes the car almost self cleaning.
I also keep a bottle of Quik Detailer and a few microfiber towels in the car to use to remove bird droppings, bugs or other messes as soon as they occur. Bugs and bird droppings will often permanently etch paint if not removed promptly.
As a last note, swirls and cobwebs are easier to prevent than to remove. Everything that touches the paint can cause marring so I take great care to use impeccably clean towels and applicators and minimize, as much as possible, any unnecessary contact with the paint.
07-24-08, 09:22 PM
#6
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Yep, I think Jim pretty much nailed it, lol.
If you're looking to do it yourself JC2, and interested in a package deal, check these out. Has the dual action polisher (udm) and some pads/polishes. Basically, everything you need to polish out 95% of swirls....
http://www.glimmerglassdetailing.com/opuldemapa.html
http://www.glimmerglassdetailing.com/poudmpawfrit.html
Or something like this, which will also add some products to your wash routine,
http://www.glimmerglassdetailing.com/stpawiuldepa.html
If you're looking to do it yourself JC2, and interested in a package deal, check these out. Has the dual action polisher (udm) and some pads/polishes. Basically, everything you need to polish out 95% of swirls....
http://www.glimmerglassdetailing.com/opuldemapa.html
http://www.glimmerglassdetailing.com/poudmpawfrit.html
Or something like this, which will also add some products to your wash routine,
http://www.glimmerglassdetailing.com/stpawiuldepa.html
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07-25-08, 12:24 AM
#8
OMG...after reading 2 paragraph then i scroll down...then i quit. just too long...but its cool cause i got a mac and i just highlight the whole entire paragraph and had my mac read the whole thing to me.
07-25-08, 01:24 AM
#10
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I have many cars that had swirls few months after I bought them
The cause is as mentioned above; not suitable detergent or shampoo
However this is not a root cause. as the polish faint out you will get those swirls no matter what is your washing techniques.
The solution is by paint work protection, and only then you can prevent the swirls by proper washing methods and shampoo.
The cause is as mentioned above; not suitable detergent or shampoo
However this is not a root cause. as the polish faint out you will get those swirls no matter what is your washing techniques.
The solution is by paint work protection, and only then you can prevent the swirls by proper washing methods and shampoo.
07-25-08, 06:58 AM
#11
Sorry guys, I wrote this up once to help the newer folks and I keep it as a WP document on my computer. When the info looks like it could help someone I drag and drop to the thread. Yes it is long, but I tried to cover most of the bases with procedures that will product good results. Maybe it should be a sticky? Or maybe I should just show more restraint in posting it. LOL 
07-25-08, 06:10 PM
#12
I have many cars that had swirls few months after I bought them
The cause is as mentioned above; not suitable detergent or shampoo
However this is not a root cause. as the polish faint out you will get those swirls no matter what is your washing techniques.
The solution is by paint work protection, and only then you can prevent the swirls by proper washing methods and shampoo.
The cause is as mentioned above; not suitable detergent or shampoo
However this is not a root cause. as the polish faint out you will get those swirls no matter what is your washing techniques.
The solution is by paint work protection, and only then you can prevent the swirls by proper washing methods and shampoo.
07-26-08, 08:00 AM
#13
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Polishes in the right hands do not fade out.
eyezack87
I don't remember which philosopher said, "let us agree on the definition first"
If I understood you correctly, you are talking about swirls as if they were some kind of extra oils that need to be removed or flattened by alcohol solution.
My experience matches what Jim wrote above.
If you want do it yourself you should plan on purchasing a dual action polisher and a few polishes and pads. You can purchase a Porter Cable 7336 or 7424 polisher for about $100. Add to that a few polishing pads ($30) and a couple polishes ($40).
I never use a dish washing detergent on my vehicles as it is not as good as a car wash. It is designed to remove grease from dishes, not dirt from paint.
Polishing a good painted car will make the swirls go away.
I may not have a very accurate scientific explanation, but my observations are accurate through my 35 years of buying dark colors cars.
If you polish, swirls will go away.
How do you explain that?
Best regards
07-26-08, 01:01 PM
#14
Oh, I'm talking about the fillers man. To ensure that the swirl has been really removed you have to remove the oils in the polish you're using. I'm just saying that sometimes looks aren't what they seem to be and thats why I recommend a wipedown with 50/50 alcohol and water or something similar to make sure everything worked out 
