Why do some black kids think white is better?

[jbrady]

Here is a very concerning video story showing at least some young black children preferring a "white" doll over a "black" doll. Credit for finding this link goes to "GS wanted".

http://www.komotv.com/home/video/500...?video=YHI&t=a

This certainly surprised me and begs so many questions. Why do these kids make these choices? Which has a greater impact, society or family? Are they impacted more by media and entertainment or by the people they live around? If at this age they feel this way what is the impact throughout their lives?

Whatever the reasons it makes a great deal of sense to find out the answers and take steps to help. This would certainly qualify in many ways as a learning disability by this self devaluation of their belief system.

[1SICKLEX]

I want to say the late great Thurgood Marshall used this argument in court, to fight segregation laws in the 1960s..Brown v. Board of Education

On the other hand it seems to ME hip-hop has become so influential, its the other way around....

Nevermind, here is the link
http://varenne.tc.columbia.edu/class..._vs_board.html
http://rangel.house.gov/cr050505.html

Looks like credit should go to Kenneth Clark, who created those physc tests.

[GKLCPA]

Originally Posted by jbrady

Here is a very concerning video story showing at least some young black children preferring a "white" doll over a "black" doll. Credit for finding this link goes to "GS wanted".

http://www.komotv.com/home/video/500...?video=YHI&t=a

This certainly surprised me and begs so many questions. Why do these kids make these choices? Which has a greater impact, society or family? Are they impacted more by media and entertainment or by the people they live around? If at this age they feel this way what is the impact throughout their lives?

Whatever the reasons it makes a great deal of sense to find out the answers and take steps to help. This would certainly qualify in many ways as a learning disability by this self devaluation of their belief system.

As I might have shared previously, I am an African-American male.

I shared this video with several people today and the responses ranged from "no surprise" to shock. My response fell into the latter camp. I didn't realize this remained an issue but upon thinking more deeply, I can see how this does remain an issue. The issue is self hatred.

There are many maladaptive behaviors in the African-American community that would mirror this form of self hatred. This is almost entirely a function of a society does not value African-Americans. Actually, American society as a whole devalues the lives and aspirations of black people. This self hatred and the entire devaluation scenario is a holdover from the days of chattel slavery in America. Our people have inculcated this into our belief system in terms of how we see ourselves. I might also add that any people who have been collectively oppressed and separated from their cultural moorings will behave in similar fashion.

Personally, I believe in having independent points of references that provide positive feedback about me as an individual. In other words, I look to no one to approve me. I approve me. I believe that our people need the same sort of thing in a collective sense. As GS said, this is what makes black history month very important.

[Big Andy]

To be a valid piece of research it would need to be repeated with white children from a similar social background. I've noticed many white children wandering round with a favourite doll that is black but you don't know if this is because they have picked it out or because they have been handed it by parents.

[GKLCPA]

Originally Posted by Big Andy

To be a valid piece of research it would need to be repeated with white children from a similar social background. I've noticed many white children wandering round with a favourite doll that is black but you don't know if this is because they have picked it out or because they have been handed it by parents.

This is a good point. Also, I wonder what the results would be if this were tried with native americans, hispanics and other groups.

[DASHOCKER]

Originally Posted by GKLCPA

This is a good point. Also, I wonder what the results would be if this were tried with native americans, hispanics and other groups.

Yes I am curious as well. Good points here.. The inferiority complex amoung blacks persists unfortunately. It did not die with end of slavery & segregation in the United States folks. The inferiority complex is still being perpetuated by the educational system & media in this country. Schools continue to feed into the minds of the black youth that Columbus, George Washington & other Europeans were the sole architects of America, and blacks did not have a role. Heck it is taught that blacks were just the slaves. The Media perpetuates the inferiority complex as well, by continuing to broadcast images of blacks in handcuffs rather than the many black doctors, lawyers, engineers & business proffessionals. True role models who demonstrate smarts & can quell the inferiority complex. Not some damn Lebron James dunking a basketball. Television commercials depict whites as the social elite and the epitome of beauty.. How many luxury car commericials have blacks in them?? Not many that I've seen. You only see blacks in Kentucky Fried Chicken, Mcdonalds comericals, Gatorade commercials. How about those "Cover Girl" commercials?? Where are the beautiful black women?? Halle Berry is not the only "Cover Girl". I would like to see more of a mix. This stuff fuels the inferiority complex that plagues blacks, especially young children. I broke that cycle a longggg time ago, and I hope many blacks follow.

[Hameed]

Originally Posted by DASHOCKER

Yes I am curious as well. Good points here.. The inferiority complex amoung blacks persists unfortunately. It did not die with end of slavery & segregation in the United States folks. The inferiority complex is still being perpetuated by the educational system & media in this country. Schools continue to feed into the minds of the black youth that Columbus, George Washington & other Europeans were the sole architects of America, and blacks did not have a role. Heck it is taught that blacks were just the slaves. The Media perpetuates the inferiority complex as well, by continuing to broadcast images of blacks in handcuffs rather than the many black doctors, lawyers, engineers & business proffessionals. True role models who demonstrate smarts & can quell the inferiority complex. Not some damn Lebron James dunking a basketball. Television commercials depict whites as the social elite and the epitome of beauty.. How many luxury car commericials have blacks in them?? Not many that I've seen. You only see blacks in Kentucky Fried Chicken, Mcdonalds comericals, Gatorade commercials. How about those "Cover Girl" commercials?? Where are the beautiful black women?? Halle Berry is not the only "Cover Girl". I would like to see more of a mix. This stuff fuels the inferiority complex that plagues blacks, especially young children. I broke that cycle a longggg time ago, and I hope many blacks follow.

My parents are from Pakistan, however I was born and raised in West Africa - Nigeria to be specific. After I graduated from University I worked for two years as a Math teacher and then left Nigeria when I was 27. The economy was in a shambles and we literally lived from hand to mouth on my teachers salary. It was time to move on.

I emigrated to Canada in 1988 and consider myself to be a very lucky person today, not because I left Nigeria, but simply because of the great life we have in North America today. That maybe a "rose-colored glasses" view to some people, but the reality is that we control our destiny by our own actions.

Growing up amongst Nigerians was an interesting experience in that there were very few non-blacks where I lived and because my dad was a teacher at one of the secondary schools, we were not treated as outsiders. The locals respected us a lot. Not trying to sound condescending in any way, but this reminds of what you are saying DASHOCKER.

Growing up there I learned to speak one of the native tongues (Hausa) fairly fluently (with no accent) and this also made it easier for me to be "accepted" amongst blacks.

When I was growing up, I have to admit I also had an inferiority complex - fueled no doubt by typical male juvenile thoughts regarding white people and always thought that when I grew up I wanted to marry a white woman. LOL. Too funny now that I think back on it.

I can understand what blacks are going through in North America and am sure this will go on for a very long time to come.

[jbrady]

Originally Posted by DASHOCKER

Yes I am curious as well. Good points here.. The inferiority complex amoung blacks persists unfortunately. It did not die with end of slavery & segregation in the United States folks. The inferiority complex is still being perpetuated by the educational system & media in this country. Schools continue to feed into the minds of the black youth that Columbus, George Washington & other Europeans were the sole architects of America, and blacks did not have a role. Heck it is taught that blacks were just the slaves. The Media perpetuates the inferiority complex as well, by continuing to broadcast images of blacks in handcuffs rather than the many black doctors, lawyers, engineers & business proffessionals. True role models who demonstrate smarts & can quell the inferiority complex. Not some damn Lebron James dunking a basketball. Television commercials depict whites as the social elite and the epitome of beauty.. How many luxury car commericials have blacks in them?? Not many that I've seen. You only see blacks in Kentucky Fried Chicken, Mcdonalds comericals, Gatorade commercials. How about those "Cover Girl" commercials?? Where are the beautiful black women?? Halle Berry is not the only "Cover Girl". I would like to see more of a mix. This stuff fuels the inferiority complex that plagues blacks, especially young children. I broke that cycle a longggg time ago, and I hope many blacks follow.

Good and reasonable points made

That said I would suggest that there is an even bigger reason/problem for far to many young children: the home and school social environment.

Too many young Black kids are surrounded by violence and crime being commited by older Black kids and adults. Almost all of the interaction with "white" people will be those in authority or those on television and media. When they experience or see broadcasts of predominently "white" neighborhoods and schools it must seem like an unattainable paradise.

Most kids SHOULD have their parents as role models so family is critical. Unfortunately the family unit is laking in far too many Black childrens lives.

Drug laws are another huge factor as dealing is one of the few apparent ways to make money to those locked in poverty (by welfare and other factors).

The search for love is an intrinsic human need and the lack of love an family is one of the main factors in gang participation.

Another powerful factor in the search for love is young girls having sex and WANTING to get pregnant as that means a loving baby and a welfare check.

How much life experience and balanced perspective can a young girl pass on to her baby? When that baby grows up and repeats the cycle what is passed on? Young kids caught in this cycle teach the only things they know and that is usually basic survival skills such as lying and stealing. Without an influence to teach that lying and stealing are wrong and self destructive how would anyone expect them not to take these actions?

Action is definitely needed and I do not mean throwing money at the problem as the welfare system has been a major if not THE major if inadvertant reason for the cycle. We need caring Missionaries who will become direct influences in the lives of children so desperately needing positive role models. Where will these people come from? Great question that needs an answer.

[GKLCPA]

Originally Posted by Hameed

My parents are from Pakistan, however I was born and raised in West Africa - Nigeria to be specific. After I graduated from University I worked for two years as a Math teacher and then left Nigeria when I was 27. The economy was in a shambles and we literally lived from hand to mouth on my teachers salary. It was time to move on.

I emigrated to Canada in 1988 and consider myself to be a very lucky person today, not because I left Nigeria, but simply because of the great life we have in North America today. That maybe a "rose-colored glasses" view to some people, but the reality is that we control our destiny by our own actions.

Growing up amongst Nigerians was an interesting experience in that there were very few non-blacks where I lived and because my dad was a teacher at one of the secondary schools, we were not treated as outsiders. The locals respected us a lot. Not trying to sound condescending in any way, but this reminds of what you are saying DASHOCKER.

Growing up there I learned to speak one of the native tongues (Hausa) fairly fluently (with no accent) and this also made it easier for me to be "accepted" amongst blacks.

When I was growing up, I have to admit I also had an inferiority complex - fueled no doubt by typical male juvenile thoughts regarding white people and always thought that when I grew up I wanted to marry a white woman. LOL. Too funny now that I think back on it.

I can understand what blacks are going through in North America and am sure this will go on for a very long time to come.

Hameed, I have a question for you. At one point, India and Pakistan were colonies of Great Britain and I've read about some of the atrocious things that were done during that time. When you compare the colonial experience of your people to that of Nigeria, do you see any difference between the impact it had on the Nigerians versus Pakistanis? In other words, do you think that colonialism impacted these two societies any differently and what in your opinion would those differences be? Do you think that both peoples suffer from inferiority complexes from that experience? Thanks

[mmarshall]

Originally Posted by DASHOCKER

car commericials have blacks in them?? Not many that I've seen. You only see blacks in Kentucky Fried Chicken, Mcdonalds comericals, Gatorade commercials.

No...this is an inaccurate stereotype. I have seen African-Americans in many different and varied commercials. This is not the "Amos and Andy" days of the 1950's.

How about those "Cover Girl" commercials?? Where are the beautiful black women?? Halle Berry is not the only "Cover Girl". I would like to see more of a mix.

Are you kidding? There are plenty of beautiful black women out there. Hale Berry is only one of them. There's Tyra Banks, Vanessa Williams, Karen Alexander, Naomi Campbell......these are just the tip of the iceberg.

[GS wanted]

Originally Posted by mmarshall

Are you kidding? There are plenty of beautiful black women out there. Hale Berry is only one of them. There's Tyra Banks, Vanessa Williams, Karen Alexander, Naomi Campbell......these are just the tip of the iceberg.

True. There are more African-American/black women getting visibility these days. I'm sure when Queen Latifah came on as a Cover Girl it likely raised a few eyebrows. I happen to like the move because it shows a small portion of her overall versatility and gives heavier (non wafe-like, skinny, starved-looking) girls a realistic picture of attainable beauty.

Now, there's a segue issue in itself. We've seen this big awareness campaign over the dangers the beauty/modelling/fashion industry is portraying to young girls. Media images definitely influence how kids and teens identify themselves with who/what they relate to so it's good that they are finally putting some real effort to voice some of the dangers the typical images are portraying. Is it ironic that the same effort isn't being made toward the white doll black doll issue? Both scenarios are addressing media images as they relate to self-esteem, trying to do away with dangerous self-loathing, and change existing perceptions. Yet, when/if you watch TV which campaign have you heard more about?

As to the overall question of the thread jbrady and everyone else thus far makes some good points. Others will point out that Bill Cosby makes some good points as well, to which I agree, I just don't appreciate some of the hypocrisy (IMO) that comes along with his points.
Again, it starts at home from my perspective. I don't have any children but I've volunteered and/or worked around underpriviledged kids for a long time and the common theme I see is where there is a stable, constructive, reinforcing home environment there is a kid that stands a better chance of making it. This doesn't necessarily have to be a dual parent home either since those are less and less common these days. But, where there is positive familial support odds are you'll see a kid with better self-esteem.
Self-accountability is key too as you can't blame it all on media images. If/when people are allowing the TV to raise their kids they can't completely blame the influence they're subjecting them to if they're not monitoring it. From what I've read this is actually echoing some sentiment expressed by Cosby recently at the 26th annual Research Association of Minority Professors (RAMP) conference at Howard University.

[GKLCPA]

Originally Posted by jbrady

Good and reasonable points made

Action is definitely needed and I do not mean throwing money at the problem as the welfare system has been a major if not THE major if inadvertant reason for the cycle. We need caring Missionaries who will become direct influences in the lives of children so desperately needing positive role models. Where will these people come from? Great question that needs an answer.

I'd tend to agree that money is not the answer and I'm not sure that caring missionaries will work either. You get action from people when they themselves realize that change is needed. Most people, if given a chance, will develop solutions to their own problems. The most that government or anyone else can do is be supportive.

To some extent, the problems encountered by African-Americans in this country are but a microcosm of the problems encountered by everyone. Accordingly, when the problems are parsed in things that only impact black folks, there's a tendency not to look upon them as challenges on society overall. The issues that America faces generally are just more aggrandized within the black community. One of these issues is the economic issue revolving around having meaningful and well paying employment. We all know that manufacturing and the ability to make things here in America has been hollowed out along with decent jobs for those who lack advanced education. This locks many people out economically and forces them into low wage jobs where they can't make ends meet. If one were to correlate economics with maladaptive behaviors, there'd surely be a strong correlation between the two. So where black folks are overrepresented in indices of societal ill, it's likely that we're overrepresented in the lower rung of the economic ladder as well. To be sure, one can't blame everything on economics strictly as there are certain behaviors that reinforce one remaining on the lower rung economically as well.

I'm an entrepreneur and I believe that the formation of businesses within the African-American community can go a long way towards addressing some economic issues and creating some positivity. One of the greatest untold stories that may prove to be quite significant for the development of African-American communities overall is the current over representation that black folks have in starting businesses here in America. I'll post the statistics, but African-Americans are twice as likely to start businesses compared to other demographic groups. Again, what this will mean remains to be seen as the failure rate for new businesses is quite high, however, it's certain that some will succeed. From those who succeed will emerge a new leadership group.

When one looks at black leaders, there's a tendency to see the leaders arising from mainly the clergy. This is so mainly due to the fact that these people are generally the only individuals that have an independent source of income tied to the community itself. Most everyone else is working for someone else and is not available.

Leadership is everything and can alter much that ails our community--and America in general.

[Hameed]

Originally Posted by GKLCPA

Hameed, I have a question for you. At one point, India and Pakistan were colonies of Great Britain and I've read about some of the atrocious things that were done during that time. When you compare the colonial experience of your people to that of Nigeria, do you see any difference between the impact it had on the Nigerians versus Pakistanis? In other words, do you think that colonialism impacted these two societies any differently and what in your opinion would those differences be? Do you think that both peoples suffer from inferiority complexes from that experience? Thanks

Unfortunately I am not in a position to answer your question with any degree of knowledge.

I don't really know much about Pakistan other than what I have heard from my parents. I visited Pakistan twice in my life for about a month each time when I was 15 and then again when I was 17.

Do both societies suffer from inferiority complexes? Yes and no - I think it all just boils down to each individual in the end. It affects others and does not affect some.

[mmarshall]

Originally Posted by GKLCPA

Hameed, I have a question for you. At one point, India and Pakistan were colonies of Great Britain and I've read about some of the atrocious things that were done during that time. When you compare the colonial experience of your people to that of Nigeria, do you see any difference between the impact it had on the Nigerians versus Pakistanis? In other words, do you think that colonialism impacted these two societies any differently and what in your opinion would those differences be? Do you think that both peoples suffer from inferiority complexes from that experience? Thanks

I know the question was not directed specifically at me, but may I make a reply?

I agree that colonialism was not the ideal form of government in these countries ( and others in the Middle East ), and that it certainly had its faults, but with the possible exception of Israel, look at what has happened since the British LEFT? When the Brits were there, at least you had a stabilizing force, and you didn't have terrorist organizations like Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, Islamic Jihad, and, of course, Al-Qaeda. The storming of the American Embassy in Iran in 1979 (which was the main event that triggered the whole upsurge of Anti-American terrorism ) would have been unthinkable if the Brits ( or the Shah ) had not left.
I'm not saying that I'd like to see the Brits march back into the whole area and take over, ( that is not the case ) but it is clear that what has happened in the area since they left has not been any better...and worse in some areas. Take Iraq, for example...things got SO bad under Saddam that we and the Brits had little choice but to go back in, even though it was NOT to re-colonize but simply change the regime.
One other thing.....had the Brits, as our allies, NOT had a worldwide empire at the time to resist the Nazis, Italian Facists, and the Japanese, there is a good chance that England itself would have collapsed, .....and the North and South American continents would have been open to invasion.

(Well, I hope, with that, we didn't get TOO far off topic )

[cpone]

Originally Posted by jbrady

That said I would suggest that there is an even bigger reason/problem for far to many young children: the home and school social environment.

Too many young Black kids are surrounded by violence and crime being commited by older Black kids and adults. Almost all of the interaction with "white" people will be those in authority or those on television and media. When they experience or see broadcasts of predominently "white" neighborhoods and schools it must seem like an unattainable paradise.

Most kids SHOULD have their parents as role models so family is critical. Unfortunately the family unit is laking in far too many Black childrens lives.

Funny no one has called you out on saying this.
I have said this in the past yet by some I was called not being "objective".
Heck what you just posted is very much what I believe as well as part of the main focus of the Speech that Bill Cosby gave and he TOO was attacked when pointing these very things out!

Funny how that works.