Illegal words...

[jbrady]

Interesting developement from Texas... Mayor of Brazoria wants to ban the "n" word punishable by a $500 fine.

The below article also states that under the US Constitution "fighting words" are not protected by the 1st amendment!

Personally I think the use of the n word is a very poor choice for so many reasons but to ban the speaking of any word is of course a very slippery slope. The specific ordinance states that the fine is only applicable if a complaint is filled. This brings up the potential for abuse. If someone was angry for whatever reason it would be very easy to file a complaint.

The article also states the first recorded use for the word was in 1619 and was used as a description for African slaves. I think that description is still valid and to use that term is to call that person or group "African slaves". Certainly an insult of high order.

That said should society ban the use of insults? Are all insults fighting words? Does being the recipient of "fighting words" give one legal recourse to fight? Are you insulted? Am I?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,246279,00.html

[Lexmex]

I think if people use the word, they are going to suffer the societal consequences of their behavior. Punishing it legally will just encourage it more.

In Mexico, I routinely am called guero, which is slang for whitey. I have heard with frequency people of African descent referred to as black or chocolate (translated). I never any one raise so much as any peep over this. Overweight people are routinely called gordo/gorda (fat man, fat woman), or a little fat man (gordito). Don't even start with sexist language, as it is so common down here.

[Lil4X]

It would seem to be the ultimate resolution of the nanny state - the government sends around a squad of enforcers to wash your mouth out with soap . . . what's next, thought police?

The use of racial epithets, like cursing, is indicative of ignorance and lack of class on the part of the speaker. If one wants to be seen in that light, that's OK, it probably reflects worse on the individual using the term than the one to whom it is directed. But, let's not be so PC we actually make words into criminal acts.

[DASHOCKER]

Lawschool 101. You can't yell "fire" in a crowded movie theater. Certain words can cause a negative reaction. It is up to the individual jurisdictions to levy the appropriate penalty.

[jbrady]

Originally Posted by DASHOCKER

Lawschool 101. You can't yell "fire" in a crowded movie theater. Certain words can cause a negative reaction. It is up to the individual jurisdictions to levy the appropriate penalty.

I doubt anyone on this forum is not familiar with your above example. That said what the meaning of your example is not the word but the act. You certainly can yell fire in a crowded theater IF there is in fact a fire!

What is prohibited is taking an action (in the example yelling but could be otherwise) that is known to be false that creates a dangerous situation.

The topic of this thread is different. Making it illegal to insult someone. Although I would expect any politicians involved to exempt themselves especially with regards to campaigning. Bottom line, should it be illegal to insult someone? Who defines what is offensive?

One of the problems with this thread is the word in question is inflamatory i.e. a "fighting word". That said let's apply the same question to just the phrase and not the specific above mentioned word. So, without specifying the word(s) used let's ask ourselves should insults be illegal? If so what constitutes an insult? If we are offended by someone does that constitute an insult?

[baddis es]

there's two forms to the word, some use it sparingly ending in -a, others hatefully ending in -er...big difference, both wrong in my view...but some curse words are allowed, some arent...most of the time no action is taken

[DASHOCKER]

Originally Posted by jbrady

I doubt anyone on this forum is not familiar with your above example. That said what the meaning of your example is not the word but the act. You certainly can yell fire in a crowded theater IF there is in fact a fire!

What is prohibited is taking an action (in the example yelling but could be otherwise) that is known to be false that creates a dangerous situation.

The topic of this thread is different. Making it illegal to insult someone. Although I would expect any politicians involved to exempt themselves especially with regards to campaigning. Bottom line, should it be illegal to insult someone? Who defines what is offensive?

One of the problems with this thread is the word in question is inflamatory i.e. a "fighting word". That said let's apply the same question to just the phrase and not the specific above mentioned word. So, without specifying the word(s) used let's ask ourselves should insults be illegal? If so what constitutes an insult? If we are offended by someone does that constitute an insult?

Let me break it down for you.. Certain words can incite riots. The word "fire" in a movie theater is one of them. The same can be said of the "N" word, anti-semetic terms towards jews, or the "H" word towards whites. These words are catylsts to a riot. One can be charged with "Inciting to Riot". I can understand what this town is attempting to do. Good for them Each jurisdiction has its own laws, ordinances in place. Penalties vary as well. Heck, there are places here in NYC where one can't blow their car horn, or else face a $500 fine. Sounds ridiculous eh??

[DASHOCKER]

Lets say our buddy Mr. Richards from Sienfeld did his "N word routine at the Apollo theater in Harlem...He can actually be arrested and charged with "inciting to riot" just for his verbage.

[Lexmex]

It also depends on where. If for instance in Mexico (and I know this has occurred because I have an African-American friend) a Mexican calls someone the N-word (as happened in the case of my friend), he has no recourse under the law, same thing for whitey or gringo or even calling a woman (flaca, flat-chested). Though the law here says you cannot have age, sex or racial discrimination, but I see all sorts of ads saying 25-35, males wanted for sales representative.

[Och]

Well, I constantly see African Americans here in NYC refer to each other with the "N" world. I am afraid that if the goverment will deny them of their liberty to use the "N" word, leaders such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson will call that racist, discimination, profiling, blah blah blah...

[cpone]

Originally Posted by Och

Well, I constantly see African Americans here in NYC refer to each other with the "N" world. I am afraid that if the goverment will deny them of their liberty to use the "N" word, leaders such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson will call that racist, discimination, profiling, blah blah blah...

I would frankly be shocked if they were to say such a thing.
Since they themselves have called for the Hip-Hop community to stop using the word.

I will admit growing up in the hood its was a common term amongst most of us.
I still catch myself using the word when on the phone with my friends back up there. I try to substitute it with "cat" but it comes out.

having a law to curtail it MAY actually help to stop it but it does seem a bit extreme. Lets see how it works out.

[Jewcano]

This would be interesting for some Russians who just moved here. To say black person in Russian, can be said two different ways, one of which replaces the I with an E and the E at the end with an A. But it still sounds almost the same as in english. That could pose a problem considering it wouldnt be used normally in a non hostile manner.

[GKLCPA]

Originally Posted by cpone

I would frankly be shocked if they were to say such a thing.
Since they themselves have called for the Hip-Hop community to stop using the word.

I will admit growing up in the hood its was a common term amongst most of us.
I still catch myself using the word when on the phone with my friends back up there. I try to substitute it with "cat" but it comes out.

having a law to curtail it MAY actually help to stop it but it does seem a bit extreme. Lets see how it works out.

Well, I'll admit that I too grew up in the "hood", but I can't use that word, mainly because that word doesn't represent me or anyone else I know. I have a real problem with accusing someone else of being racist like the Seinfield guy when it's used, but then using it to refer to each other. Please don't take it that I'm not saying that you're doing that per se, but just stating my position on the matter.

That word needs to be removed from all hip hop and popular culture. I really don't subscribe to all that Jackson and Sharpton push, but if they want to push for elimination of that, they have my full support.

[mmarshall]

Originally Posted by jbrady

The article also states the first recorded use for the word was in 1619 and was used as a description for African slaves. I think that description is still valid and to use that term is to call that person or group "African slaves". Certainly an insult of high order.

The term itself was first used by the British.

[mmarshall]

Originally Posted by Lexmex

I think if people use the word, they are going to suffer the societal consequences of their behavior. Punishing it legally will just encourage it more.

I'm not sure I agree. A stint in the local hoosegow will make a lot of people think twice before using it. The First Amendment does not necessarily allow you to personally insult people...that is slander.
However, a law like this SHOULD, IMO, be balanced with punishment for insulting other racial groups too...not just blacks.

In Mexico, I routinely am called guero, which is slang for whitey. I have heard with frequency people of African descent referred to as black or chocolate (translated). I never any one raise so much as any peep over this. Overweight people are routinely called gordo/gorda (fat man, fat woman), or a little fat man (gordito). Don't even start with sexist language, as it is so common down here.

"Gringo" ( foreigner, generally an American white ) and "Mamacita" ( loose or promiscuous woman ) have gone out of fashion? Those terms have been used in Latin America for decades.