Thoughts on James Baker. (lawyer for Bush family)

[Senator]

So I am sitting here thinking...

This guy James Baker, close personal friend of the Bush family who has greatly reaching political ties, sway, and influence still manages to sleep at night.

He is the family lawyer of the Bush family.

Represented the younger Bush in his 1st election in Florida.

Represented Enron, Haliburton, and Harken Energy.
(All Bush related companies)

Now this is the kicker.

The now famous case against the Saudi Royal family and Government. ( I know that it has been going on for a while..) The guy claims to be American yet he is representing the country that supplied the majority of hijackers on 9/11.

He is defending a entire different country against the families who lost loved ones in the attacks.

I personally would like to kick him in the balls and ask him if he would like another......

But I would prob. get sued by his firm, Baker-Botts.


Anyway, let's debate!!!!!

[GRAND_LS 4]

There is nothing more Al Qaeda wants then to get rid of the Saudi Royal familiy, so I'm not sure if you know what your talking about. Saudi Arabia has been a big target for Al Qaeda as well (for its relashions with Washington). Maybe you should read some international news?

Al Qaeda = the bad people
Al Qaeda hates the Royal family because of their close relashions with Washington.
Al Qaeda attacks the US, and then Saudi for maintaing that relashionship.

What is it that your missing?

[Senator]

Al Qaeda is bankrolled by many individuals within the Saudi Royal family and business network. For instance, the Saudi-BinLadin construction group. Who build the Grand Mosque in Mecca, and Medina to name a few.

Osama drew funds from his families business (whom of which he has no ties to apparently.) To bankroll Al Qaeda in the early ninties, so how does the government who is so closely tied to the kingdom justify the war on terror against Osama and his networks when the very country they are in bed with are helping them!?!?!

Not all of Saudi's saw the relationship with the West as a slap in the face, only the hardcore Wahabism living Muslims within the Kingdom and in the world saw it as that. When the US set foot into Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War the followers of Wahabism saw it as a slap in the face.

I have done my research enough to know this. The Bush family has relied to heavily on its relationship with Saudi Arabia in personal business to where it has jeopardized the American business sector, and security sector.

Research "Express Visa Programs" and see which countries come up before and after 9/11. Saudi had the program, and after the fact.. After supplying the attacks with the majority of the hijackers... Still has the program intact....

Tell me the ethical standard in that?

And don't even let me get on the fact that we actually flew the damn bastards out of the country right after the attacks happened, and didn't even question them.

Josh

[mmarshall]

Originally Posted by GRAND_LS 4

There is nothing more Al Qaeda wants then to get rid of the Saudi Royal familiy,
. Saudi Arabia has been a big target for Al Qaeda as well (for its relashions with Washington). ?

GRAND LS 4 is correct on this one. There are few organizations on earth that Al-Qeada hates more than the Saudi Royal family....they rank the Saudi monarchy with the U.S., Britain, and Israel. The arguement that the Saudis finance Al-Qeada has little credibility.......If Osama Ben Laden were in fact getting money from the Saudis, he would not try and destroy the hand that feeds him. True, he did accept money in the 1980's, fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan, that did originate in the U.S., but that was not money directly from this country...it was funnelled through other Arab and Muslim groups first....and he hated the U.S. even back then but not with the intensity of later on.

[Senator]

Al Qaeda is funded by the Saudi Kingdom. If you cannot understand it then you aren't looking close enough.

Saudi-BinLaden Construction Group.

SAUDI as in Saudi Royal family.

BIN LADEN as in the infamous terrorist.

THEY WORK TOGETHER.............

If you really think that the BinLaden's families hands are clean of helping out Osama then you really are blind to the painfully obvious.

How do you think the camps were made? Charitable donations from UNICEF???

Osama has been quoted himself as saying he used family construction equipment, funds, and workers to construct the many camps within the Middle East.....

But back to my orginal point again. James A. Baker III.

Okay, who would you defend in this case?

America

or

Saudi Arabia???


Also, if you had the ability to ask BinLaden family members and "Elite" Saudi citizens (including Royal family members.) about 9/11 RIGHT AFTER it happened, would you do it? Or would you let them buy horses in Kentucky, board a private jet and leave the country without any questioning or inquiry whatsoever?


I to this day blame Bush and his ethics as to how he handled 9/11.


Josh

[GRAND_LS 4]

Originally Posted by Senator

Al Qaeda is funded by the Saudi Kingdom. If you cannot understand it then you aren't looking close enough.

Saudi-BinLaden Construction Group.

SAUDI as in Saudi Royal family.

BIN LADEN as in the infamous terrorist.

THEY WORK TOGETHER.............

If you really think that the BinLaden's families hands are clean of helping out Osama then you really are blind to the painfully obvious.

How do you think the camps were made? Charitable donations from UNICEF???

Osama has been quoted himself as saying he used family construction equipment, funds, and workers to construct the many camps within the Middle East.....

But back to my orginal point again. James A. Baker III.

Okay, who would you defend in this case?

America

or

Saudi Arabia???


Also, if you had the ability to ask BinLaden family members and "Elite" Saudi citizens (including Royal family members.) about 9/11 RIGHT AFTER it happened, would you do it? Or would you let them buy horses in Kentucky, board a private jet and leave the country without any questioning or inquiry whatsoever?


I to this day blame Bush and his ethics as to how he handled 9/11.


Josh

First of all, Saudi-bin laden group has nothing to do with the Al-Saud family (The Royal families actual last name). Their last name isn’t Saudi.

The Bin Laden's family cannot, and WOULD not jeopardize their position by supporting Osama, they have officially cut ties and disowned him years ago, and would not risk their security, and the wrath of the royal family to supplying him with any money (The guy just inherited loads of money as well as all his siblings). The royal family in Saudi is VERY good when it comes down to their interests, and wouldn’t let anyone get away with financing the very same group that’s fighting them.

The bin laden group is a well known construction company that wins government bids to build roads and buildings across the kingdom. They maintain the holy mosque of Makkah as a part of their philanthropic program. You also cannot transport equipment from Saudi Arabia, to Afghanistan under the radar so to speak (you need permits and LONG paper work for this type of thing)... so that one is out of the question.

Now, you wanted to question every Saudi citizen in the US post 9/11? Although the FBI interviewed all the Saudi student here that I know, you can’t possibly suggest interviewing every SINGLE Saudi citizen now do you? Do you have any idea how much Saudi invests in the US? Saudi has a huge stake in the US economy, and it wouldn’t be in their best interest for ANY slow downs in the U.S. economy. They are currently pushing OPEC to supply above its ceiling limit to stop any cripple in the economy.

Let go of the conspiracy theories and think it out yourself. I’m sure the Royal family wished that the leader of the worlds biggest terrorists organization wasn’t Saudi born, nor had close ties with his family, but **** happens, but you cant back track it and blame it on them.

The bin laden family has many investments in the US and worldwide that are tracked to the penny for years now, so I’m pretty sure they’ve had their fun with the FBI, CIA, KGB, MOSAAD, and Saudi intelligence and just about every other government agency in the world.

[GRAND_LS 4]

Originally Posted by mmarshall

GRAND LS 4 is correct on this one. There are few organizations on earth that Al-Qeada hates more than the Saudi Royal family....they rank the Saudi monarchy with the U.S., Britain, and Israel. The arguement that the Saudis finance Al-Qeada has little credibility.......If Osama Ben Laden were in fact getting money from the Saudis, he would not try and destroy the hand that feeds him. True, he did accept money in the 1980's, fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan, that did originate in the U.S., but that was not money directly from this country...it was funnelled through other Arab and Muslim groups first....and he hated the U.S. even back then but not with the intensity of later on.

Exactly, since 9/11, the Saudi government has been very strict about where these donations go, and who collects them. Try and gather any sort of large amount of money, and count to 10 as the police would be knocking on your door.

[Lil4X]

Well said, LS!

While the al-Saud family is detested by the bin Ladens, the Royal Family must maintain their balance on a razor's edge. They dare not challenge a man that in many sectors is a popular Islamic hero. The overriding consideration in most of the Arab world is that the Royal Family must be seen by their subjects as pro-Arab, pro-Islam, and anti-Israel. Any evidence to the contrary could spark a popular coup that is the deepest fear of the members of the Family.

Understand that the Middle East is composed of a series of warring factions - tribes, if you will, whose blood loyalties extend far beyond national borders. The Saud family was placed in charge by the British at the close of WW1, and has remained in power by a game of intrigue that would have made both Machiavelli and Sun Tzu proud.

They know that their enormous wealth has to be hidden from their subjects. For that reason, their palaces are walled compounds inside which their incredible wealth and lavish lifestyles are out of sight to the general public. If you fly into a Middle Eastern capital, a quick look down will confirm the wealth of the inhabitants of these compounds: a lavish palace, a fleet of expensive cars, and the ultimate expression of desert wealth, lush green gardens.

The Royal Family knows that if this secret reaches the man in the street, they will be overwhelmed by a mob of rioters, stripped of their wealth, and slaughtered in the streets for being corrupt and anti-Muslim. This is the reason they maintain a sober, serious lifestyle as possible at home, but spend the majority of their time in the playgrounds of Europe, where their excesses are not likely to reach the Saudi street.

Their great wealth being so precariously balanced, their handling of bin Laden makes sense. On one hand they would like to crush him like a bug, but they cannot appear to come down too hard on this seemingly poor rebel leader that fights for the cause of Islam. On the other hand, they cannot be seen to support the US, known throughout the region as the major supporter of hated Israel. The Saud family has to tread a very fine line to eliminate the bin Laden’s threat of exposure, while appearing to challenge American influence in the region.

The US cannot be seen as any kind of factor in this “family” dispute.

[Senator]

The "conspiracy theory" that you speak of is in fact been a proven occurance. The US government flew out select members of the Saudi and Bin Laden family right after the attacks took place. The flights orignated from Florida, Boston, Vegas, and departed from Lexington Kentucky and landed in Europe. About the Questioning, I never stated to question every Saudi citizen, that is just plain silly to even say. But when you have members of the family and government here, in the USA before, during, and after the attacks, do you not think it would be wise to at least inquire about certain things pertaining to the situation at hand?

If somebody kicked your brother is the head, and the suspects brother was there, wouldn't you ask him if he at least knew anything??


I also understand and am fully aware of how much the Saudi's have invested into the US business structure. That is a given, but to protect interest of both public, and private, CERTAIN members,,,, I am sorry I should have been more specific from the begining with that of both the Saudi Royal and Bin Laden family support Al Qaeda's views about the West in general. Remember, the kingdom was united, (more or less comanded) under Wahabism. The Saudi family saw their strengths and used it to their advantage to make a Kingdom. But this isn't a history lesson. I already know about the beginings of the country.

Yes, you can go back to FDR in WW II to see the affects of the relationships the West had with them.

FDR and the family started it with oil and it continues today,,, with oil. You even said it yourself, involving OPEC. But our country's problem is not supply, it is demand, and the ability to meet that demand with the ability to refine crude into fuel and other petro products that we Americans use everyday.


BUT, back to my original topic.........




JAMES A. BAKER III.....






ANSWER THAT QUESTION.....

[Matters]

Do you accept the basic premise that everyone is entitled to legal representation? I think that's a fair enough thing, right? Even the worst in society are entitled to have his or her case decided within the law with the right to exercise legal representation.

Then isn't James Baker merely discharging his professional duty by representing these entities, even if these entities are unpopular? It isn't his call to decide the rights and wrongs of his client, his duty is to represent them within the constricts of the law. Seems fair enough.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Matters

Do you accept the basic premise that everyone is entitled to legal representation? I think that's a fair enough thing, right?

Let's take all the argued concepts out, one of the Senator's initial theories was that they ARE guilty...

But the basic premise of our Republic is that every person is innocent until proven guilty..(yes, there is some proof, but let's try them 1st.) Even Lyndie got a ceremonial one.

Yes, reason and reality must prevail. But why do you think mass murderers get zillions of appeals and yet without any conviction, you're willing to take the stance you have.


Too many people believe all the hype, and you know, it's their right in this country, unfortunately, not all people follow through on the concept of being created equal.....

[sha4000]

the saudis hands are bloody as hell and i agree with senator. just b/c people say they wash their hands doesnt mean its true. **** we cant even trust our own government to tell the truth and you guys want to believe a foreign govt to tell the truth when it could jeopardize their standing in the world. yeah eeryone is presumed innocent until.... but everyone doesnt have friends in high places to wisk them out of the country and shield them from prosecution or questioning. none of these people are beholden to the law like me or any of you. they could have found anyone to represent them but they pick baker, do you REALLY think thats coincidence? not me. even if we didnt get into all this other stuff it just doesnt look right for this guy to be representing the saudis b/c whether right nor wrong alot of americans look at them as being culpable in 9/11