The Bible Textbook

[WhiteTiger]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/09....ap/index.html

A new item to teach religion in public schools, yet not violating any laws.

I believe this is a good thing.

[mkorsu]

Ok, I'll bite Ed. I am a Republican & a Catholic, but I still tend to disagree with religion being taught in public schools. My position/feelings on it are that religion should be something that begins in the home and is then nurtured through Sunday school learning, involvement in the church, lessons at home , and CCD. Our daughter, who is now 7, is attending CCD, and it is the family function to be at mass every Sunday at 10am. She is very aware of her religion, but we are allowing her to grow within it at her pace.

I feel that "forcing" religion upon unsuspecting or unwelcoming students & families does more harm than good and prevents the individualism we do try and foster in our schools today.

[WhiteTiger]

I believe this textbook is allowing teachers to teach about the history of religion and not actually trying to confirm or deny any of its "faith" concepts. IMO, this is another topic that can be studied like science or math without having anyone being converted.

[mkorsu]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

I believe this textbook is allowing teachers to teach about the history of religion and not actually trying to confirm or deny any of its "faith" concepts. IMO, this is another topic that can be studied like science or math without having anyone being converted.

Teaching the history of religion would be great. Almost like a freshman college course (theology 101a). But from what I inferred from the article was that they are more so teaching the history of the Bible (Old & New Testaments). This is rather centralized around the Christian religions. While I am a Catholic and I adhere to my faith, I still agree with the foundations of the US in that we should not have to fear persecution due to a chosen religion. This seems to me, to begin to head towards that path. I believe we will have to wait and see what occurs during its trial period.

One thing I will say as a positive for this is that it is infinately better than those Creationism fanatics!!

[drink300]

Originally Posted by mkorsu

I feel that "forcing" religion upon unsuspecting or unwelcoming students & families does more harm than good and prevents the individualism we do try and foster in our schools today.

Prayer was "forced" on students prior to 1963. Liberals will tell you about the harmful effects of prayer on students. Statistics show a different story. Here is what is REALLY going on:

In the 1940s and 1950s, the government reported that the biggest problems teachers reported were:

1.) Kids talking out of turn
2.) Chewing gum in class
3.) Making noise
4.) Running in the halls
5.) Cutting in Line
6.) Dress-code violations
7.) Littering

Compare this to today's prayerless and godless schools where the top 10 list of problems includes:

1.) Drug abuse
2.) Alcohol Abuse
3.) Pregnancy
4.) Suicide
5.) Rape
6.) Robbery
7.) Assault

Statistics show that SAT scores steadily declined for 18 consecutive years beginning in 1963. However, in Christian schools, the SAT scores are still at or near the pre-1963 levels. Teenage pregnancy rates began to rise in...you guessed it...1963. And they have gone up 500% since then. In Christian schools, this is a very small problem.

Prayer in general was probably not solely responsible for this, but it was a big help. Back then, kids actually respected authority beause they were taught that there was a higher authority (God) watching them. Nowadays, kids are taught that there is no God and therefore, they have can do whatever they want with no eternal consequences. The results of this are devastating.

People always ask how God could allow 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, poverty and crime in America, etc.. I always tell them " What do you expect?". You kicked God out of schools and government, you claim that he does not exist, you murder 40 million innocent babies for convenience, you allow your children to run amuck with no morality, etc... What do you expect God to do, Bless America???? If you ignore Him, He will ignore you.

drink300

[RobSoVIP]

1) Drink, that argument is weak at best. There are more forces at play with society that simply teaching styles and subjects.

2) If we are going to teach this, then will we teach the history of Islam, Bhuddism, Hindu, Athieism, Mormon(ism?), etc??? Seriously, why one religion over the other? Havent all religions played a major role in the the development of the EARTH?

3) I tend to agree with the person who said that religion should be something that is taught, nurtured, and encouraged at the home. Teach this "history" in sunday school...

[Davtown]

Originally Posted by drink300

Compare this to today's prayerless and godless schools where the top 10 list of problems includes:

1.) Drug abuse
2.) Alcohol Abuse
3.) Pregnancy
4.) Suicide
5.) Rape
6.) Robbery
7.) Assault

When I was in high school, one of my buddies came to class high (marijuana or cocaine) or drunk all the time, abused drugs and alcohol outside of school regularly, slept with literally dozens of different girls (although I don't think he got any pregnant, but still risked it for sure), constantly made fun of someone who ended up commiting suicide, stole things (a lot of time it was alcohol from stores), and definitely got in a LOT of fights. That's pretty much everything on that list aside from rape (the girls were all willing to sleep with him). He's no longer my friend as you may have guessed (for many different reasons)

The only thing is, he was one of the most Christian people I knew. Prayed regularly, went to church every Sunday, and got very angry if someone used the Lord's name in vain.

An exception to the rule? Maybe, but I'm telling you that religion and "whole heartedness" (or whatever you want to call it) don't necessarily go hand in hand. I do not and never will believe in God, I have been to church three times and thought it was a complete waste of time, however I have a higher moral standard than 99% of people I know. Am I going to "hell"?

I'm with sc400texas on this one... the workings of society and it's outcome on current generations is a very complex issue, and can't be pinned on the lack of a Christian God in school and government.

Originally Posted by drink300

People always ask how God could allow 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, poverty and crime in America, etc.. I always tell them " What do you expect?". You kicked God out of schools and government, you claim that he does not exist, you murder 40 million innocent babies for convenience, you allow your children to run amuck with no morality, etc... What do you expect God to do, Bless America???? If you ignore Him, He will ignore you.

drink300

I completely respect your beliefs, and I don't think anyone is wrong for being religious (any religion). But I certainly don't appreciate it when I'm told that I'm a bad person for not accepting God, that I am wrong in my views, and that disasters (natural or otherwise) are the direct result of my lack of faith in God.



edit: Just thought I'd mention that when I was in 10th grade, we were taught about the Bible in a literary manner. Not about the commandments, but rather the stories, how the unfolded, what they were trying to convey, etc... just like any other book. We didn't learn about how to accept religion or anything like that, no accepting of God was forced upon us. It was just another book we were assigned in high school English class. I didn't mind that at all as it was done in a very mature manner. However, if we were asked to pray or anything that started impeding on MY beliefs... you bet I would have caused a ruckus. I'm not going to stand for that.

[Lil4X]

Originally Posted by Davtown

The only thing is, he was one of the most Christian people I knew. Prayed regularly, went to church every Sunday, and got very angry if someone used the Lord's name in vain.

An exception to the rule? Maybe, but I'm telling you that religion and "whole heartedness" (or whatever you want to call it) don't necessarily go hand in hand.

Sadly, a number of self-professed "Christians" are not. It's not a matter of going to church, praying, or some other show of "Christian" behavior. The real eividence of a person's relationship with Christ is their "life witness". It doesn’t matter what rituals a person performs, is the way they live that is not just a "show" of faith, but a genuine testament to it.

Hypocrisy, while common, is not condoned by any Christian denmination, Those who condemn hypocrisy only condemn themselves. It is not just destructive to the individual (God condemns hypocrites - see Matthew 24:45-51) We all know that there are "quack" doctors - but that doesn't keep us from going to a physician when we are sick. The presence of a few "quack" Christians does not invalidate the Christian teaching.

Originally Posted by Davtown

I do not and never will believe in God, I have been to church three times and thought it was a complete waste of time, however I have a higher moral standard than 99% of people I know. Am I going to "hell"?

[It's your option. God does not condemn any of us to Hell, but he allows us to make the choice. What is your definition of "good"? Believe me, neither you or I meet His standard of "good", but fall far short. In God's eyes, "good" isn't good enough, only perfection will serve, and none of us come close to the standard.

[Davtown]

I actually agree quite a bit with you here Lil4x. And I don't doubt for a second the good that religion has brought to this world, but, well... read on.

Originally Posted by Lil4X

Sadly, a number of self-professed "Christians" are not. It's not a matter of going to church, praying, or some other show of "Christian" behavior. The real eividence of a person's relationship with Christ is their "life witness". It doesn’t matter what rituals a person performs, is the way they live that is not just a "show" of faith, but a genuine testament to it..

This is why I think that having prayer and religion forced into public schools wouldn't necessarily have an impact towards children's behaviors. Just because it's there doesn't mean they will accept it. Something that has been seen time and time again is the fact that when you tell someone what to do, they are likely to do exactly the opposite. On a more hypothetical note, is it possible that it could exacerbate the situation due to teenagers naturally rebellious attitude? As in, if they were forced to pray in school, would they purposely go against Christian beliefs just for the sake of doing it? You can give an answer to that question if you'd like, but I put it out there more as a random thought.

Personally, I place a good amount of blame on horrendous parenting skills when it comes to these "troubled children"...

Originally Posted by Lil4X

Believe me, neither you or I meet His standard of "good", but fall far short. In God's eyes, "good" isn't good enough, only perfection will serve, and none of us come close to the standard.

http://www.thesimpsons.stopklatka.pl...astowi_ned.gif



Keep the comments coming...

[bitkahuna]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/09....ap/index.html

A new item to teach religion in public schools, yet not violating any laws.

I believe this is a good thing.

This is just another attempt to push discussing Christianity in schools. Note the book is called "The Bible and Its Influence." So I presume they will also spend $2 million working on "The Koran and its influence" next? I think not.

I wonder if they'll also work on "Christianity: A history of violence, torture, wars" too?

[Vegassc400]

Originally Posted by bitkahuna

I wonder if they'll also work on "Christianity: A history of violence, torture, wars" too?

OUCH! A book with that title may not go over as well as the other one.

It's not often we agree Bit. It's good to see we do on this one.

[bitkahuna]

Originally Posted by Vegassc400

OUCH! A book with that title may not go over as well as the other one.

It's not often we agree Bit. It's good to see we do on this one.

Cool. Religion has NO place in GOVERNMENT funded schools. You want religion in schools for your kids? Send 'em to a private school of your choice.

[drink300]

I would like to remind everyone that there is no such thing as the separation of church and state. If a particular school district would like to add Bible classes to their curriculum, it is their prerogative.

The words "separation of church and state" appear no where in any of the founding documents. The concept of a separation between the state and religion is completely misguided and being perpetrated by a small number of secular progressivists and atheists who are on the fringes of American society.

..."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"... That's what the 1st Amendments says. No more, no less. *Congress* hasn't attempted to force schoolbooks on children. The Pennsylvania school district has. Everything being done here is 100% legal.

drink300

[Vegassc400]

Originally Posted by drink300

I would like to remind everyone that there is no such thing as the separation of church and state. If a particular school district would like to add Bible classes to their curriculum, it is their prerogative.

The words "separation of church and state" appear no where in any of the founding documents. The concept of a separation between the state and religion is completely misguided and being perpetrated by a small number of secular progressivists and atheists who are on the fringes of American society.

..."Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"... That's what the 1st Amendments says. No more, no less. *Congress* hasn't attempted to force schoolbooks on children. The Pennsylvania school district has. Everything being done here is 100% legal.

drink300

Good. So we can also have Islam, Buddhism, Hindu ect.............. all taught in the schools. Expand the childrens horizons, ya know? Or is that not what you want? Remember, when you're talking religion, it's all or nothing.

[drink300]

Originally Posted by Vegassc400

Good. So we can also have Islam, Buddhism, Hindu ect.............. all taught in the schools. Expand the childrens horizons, ya know? Or is that not what you want? Remember, when you're talking religion, it's all or nothing.

Thank you. We see eye to eye on this. I too feel that world religion should be taught. Faith is a huge part of the lives of the mass percentage of America, no matter which faith it might be. This being the case, the historicity of all the faiths should be covered in high school.

Although I feel all faiths should be taught, the fact is that the #1 faiths in America are Catholicism and Protestant Christianity. Therefore, you are more likely to see the schools teaching the history of those faiths.

drink300