I hope this isn't a repost, but Edmunds posted some information on the GS450h (01/20/05). I thought that the GS450h was going to get a hybrid V8 powertrain rather than a hybrid V6 powertrain like the what is in the RX400h, I guess I was confused? Maybe they couldn't fit the hybrid system with the V8?

I don't understand why they are calling it the GS450h rather than GS400h, GS350h, or GS300h since it is going to use a V6. If it uses the same engine as the RX400h like they are suggesting, that means about 270HP more or less, is this correct?

New Lexus GS Sedan Gets Hybrid Power
January 20, 2005

Summary: Toyota's upscale Lexus subsidiary is looking forward to a busy April, in which it will put one new gas-electric hybrid on sale and unveil another.

Full story: Toyota is planning to display its latest gas-electric hybrid, the Lexus GS 450 sedan, at the New York International Auto Show in April. The new car is based on the Lexus GS sedan, and will share hybrid parts with the forthcoming Lexus RX 400h hybrid sport-utility vehicle, which goes on sale April 15.

A Lexus spokesperson said the GS 450, like the RX 400h, will use hybrid technology to enhance performance; i.e., it will use electric motors to augment the power of the engine. Toyota has not yet announced which of its V6 power plants would go into production in the GS 450, but the spokesperson said the RX 400h's six-cylinder engine is a leading candidate.

What this means to you: Lexus is taking a financial gamble with its first hybrids, basing them on existing models and not creating stand-alone nameplates such as the successful Prius hybrid sedan from parent automaker Toyota. Will the new hybrids sell?

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145525 :bigthumbu

From things that I have read, the GS450, is supposed to be a competitor of the E55 AMG, that the hybrid engine is supposed to act as a supercharger when you WANT the power and take the part of gas engine when you are cruising at a steady speed. Or something like that.

From things that I have read, the GS450, is supposed to be a competitor of the E55 AMG, that the hybrid engine is supposed to act as a supercharger when you WANT the power and take the part of gas engine when you are cruising at a steady speed. Or something like that.

A competitor to the E55? Are they planning on getting about 200HP out of the electric motor? That seems like a lot considering the hybrid V6 in the RX400h only makes 40HP more than the regular 3.3 liter V6 in the RX330. I thought they were going to make a V8 hybrid instead of a V6 hybrid GS to compete with the E55/M5?

A competitor to the E55? Are they planning on getting about 200HP out of the electric motor? That seems like a lot considering the hybrid V6 in the RX400h only makes 40HP more than the regular 3.3 liter V6 in the RX330. I thought they were going to make a V8 hybrid instead of a V6 hybrid GS to compete with the E55/M5?

Whoa whoa slow down. Lexus is planning to release a GT line of cars which is more performance oriented...targeted specifically after the M and AMG lines of BMW & MB respectively. The Hybrid is going to be a v6 for the GS450h. There is no exact word whether they will retune a V8 version of the GS or work a hybrid performance version. We have yet to find that out.

The RX400h only makes 40 more hp but will gain mounds of torque with motors powering both front and rear. The gas 3MZ-FE engine for the RX400h will power the front wheels with the electric motor assisting. The RX400h out accelerates it's gas only powered counterpart.

Exactly what I was talking about, the hybrid engine attached to the V8.

Exactly what I was talking about, the hybrid engine attached to the V8.

No I think you were talking about the GS450 being a v8 which it will not be.

no I think he meant the GT having a v8
GT in 08?

no I think he meant the GT having a v8
GT in 08?

Well the GT project is just an idea like the concept cars for the time being.

A Lexus spokesperson said the GS 450, like the RX 400h, will use hybrid technology to enhance performance; i.e., it will use electric motors to augment the power of the engine. Toyota has not yet announced which of its V6 power plants would go into production in the GS 450, but the spokesperson said the RX 400h's six-cylinder engine is a leading candidate.

I find this hard to believe because the RX400h uses the 3MZ-FE V6 which has primarily been used in FWD applications only i.e. RX330/ES330 and previous 1MZ-FE 3.0L and 2MZ-FE 2.5L V6.

The new GS is using the new GR series of V6 engines. We will definitely have to wait and see, but it's highly unlikely Toyota will use an older powerplant which was only used for FWD camry derivatives into a RWD variant.

yay for concepts
maybe we will get tidbits of info in geneva and NY about the GT line
hopefully lexus is serious about this and not just toying around.
I mean they can afford to take a loss if it doesnt pan out:)

Just a thought. Say the LF-A does become reality. Say its a V-8 (If F-1 rules change). Could LExus use this powerplant in the upcoming GT line? It would make more fiscal sense. Pure speculation.

The reason I think this, the LF-A was not a hybrid. Many thought it would have been, to showcase hybrid tech at its finest.

Looking at how long it took the RX 400h to come, Lexus might not have resources to build additional hybrids.

From things that I have read, the GS450, is supposed to be a competitor of the E55 AMG, that the hybrid engine is supposed to act as a supercharger when you WANT the power and take the part of gas engine when you are cruising at a steady speed. Or something like that.

like flip said, i don't think this will come close to the e55, this is just going to be a v6 + hybrid, so it's not really too exciting. if they come out with the v8 GT version, now that might be the eye catcher

As Honda Accord hybrid owners have already found out, something like the 450H only makes sense to true tree huggers (and a few special cases). Unless Lexus gives it away it doesn't make sense financially (cause you won't recoupe enough in fuel savings to justify the upfront and increased other costs) and the couple of tenths straight line preformance gain is nothing to brag about either (and handling can't get any better with the extra weight).

It will sell in the DC area cause the buyers can use the HOV lane driving alone. :rolleyes:

Why the constant name calling and bashing? It's getting old. :argue:

As Honda Accord hybrid owners have already found out, something like the 450H only makes sense to true tree huggers (and a few special cases). Unless Lexus gives it away it doesn't make sense financially (cause you won't recoupe enough in fuel savings to justify the upfront and increased other costs) and the couple of tenths straight line preformance gain is nothing to brag about either (and handling can't get any better with the extra weight).

It will sell in the DC area cause the buyers can use the HOV lane driving alone. :rolleyes:

Well the tax credit does help :) . And hybrids are the future, period. Toyota has stated they barely make any money on the Prius but the positive reviews and how the public sees Toyota/Lexus as a leader for hybrid tech is priceless.

Its a no brainer, IMO. You get more performance, better fuel economy, maybe a 10% increase in price.
Now if you don't commute much, it might not make fiscal "sense" to purchase a hybrid.

As Honda Accord hybrid owners have already found out, something like the 450H only makes sense to true tree huggers (and a few special cases). Unless Lexus gives it away it doesn't make sense financially (cause you won't recoupe enough in fuel savings to justify the upfront and increased other costs) and the couple of tenths straight line preformance gain is nothing to brag about either (and handling can't get any better with the extra weight).

It will sell in the DC area cause the buyers can use the HOV lane driving alone. :rolleyes:

First of all, Accord Hybrid is not an full hybrid, and technologically is big step behind HSD. What you are going to have in RX400h is:
- optimized petrol engine with less hp, more torque and 10-15% less gas usage
- electric engine with 70hp (FWD version, it is unknown how fast will AWD version be), that can move the car on its own and massive torque
- CVT transmission
- all by wire controls.

What you have in Accord Hybrid is basically an Hybrid solution to Hybrids. To lower costs, they are using mild-hybrids that cant run on its own, have limiting battery, only 16hp. If using seriously lower tech can actually bring some performance upgrade then using serious hardware will be significantly faster.

Not to mention that AWD version will be more powerful, and as mentioned before Lexus will stress performance in their hybrids so yes, they will be performance oriented. They might not be made to compete with AMG, but then again does AMG version of E class or does M5 cost only 4k more than its "base" version? nope... Do they actually get more power while reducing gas usage and saving the world? nope.

Promise of petrol hybrids is that you can go faster, spend significantly less fuel and save the world. Fast is - you are already going to spend 5k-8k more for V8 engine that goes faster and spends more fuel, why not save fuel and go faster?

RX400h and upcoming GS450h should be more seen as performance upgrades with a twist than compared to their base versions. GS450h should be looked in a sense of what GS430 offers and then clear advantage will be seen.

p.s. HSD system does not cost any more to maintain than a normal petrol engine. Complete system is maintainance free and warrantied for 8 years, 160,000 miles.

GS450h should be looked in a sense of what GS430 offers and then clear advantage will be seen.

.
So you think Lexus will have the GS450H performance at the GS V8 level (by the time 450H comes out I think we'll be talking about a bigger V8) at the same price or less? Who would ever buy the V8 if that is true? Lexus might make a mistake here and there but I highly doubt it would make one this big.

Lexus might make a mistake here and there but I highly doubt it would make one this big.

Why are you contstantly such a skeptic w/what Lexus has to bring out? You are so negative but then again you spend more than half of your time posting in the Third Gen GS forums. Are you even going to buy one or are you just here to run it down to the ground with your bias? You highly doubt it would make it big because you have the notion that diesel power cars are going to sell, but in reality, it's not.

The RX400h is already a big hit despite the fact it hasn't even been released yet. There's already a 200 person waiting list at several SoCal dealerships. The Prius was a huge hit to Toyota that they couldn't even keep up with demand at it's release. They are still seeing that growth today. It's just like comparing a Kia Sedona minivan with all it's 10 year warranty will outsell a Toyota Sienna. It's not going to happen.

Why are you contstantly such a skeptic w/what Lexus has to bring out? You are so negative but then again you spend more than half of your time posting in the Third Gen GS forums. Are you even going to buy one or are you just here to run it down to the ground with your bias? You highly doubt it would make it big because you have the notion that diesel power cars are going to sell, but in reality, it's not.

The RX400h is already a big hit despite the fact it hasn't even been released yet. There's already a 200 person waiting list at several SoCal dealerships. The Prius was a huge hit to Toyota that they couldn't even keep up with demand at it's release. They are still seeing that growth today. It's just like comparing a Kia Sedona minivan with all it's 10 year warranty will outsell a Toyota Sienna. It's not going to happen.

Well said flip. :thumbup:

Why are you contstantly such a skeptic w/what Lexus has to bring out? You are so negative but then again you spend more than half of your time posting in the Third Gen GS forums. Are you even going to buy one or are you just here to run it down to the ground with your bias? You highly doubt it would make it big because you have the notion that diesel power cars are going to sell, but in reality, it's not.

The RX400h is already a big hit despite the fact it hasn't even been released yet. There's already a 200 person waiting list at several SoCal dealerships. The Prius was a huge hit to Toyota that they couldn't even keep up with demand at it's release. They are still seeing that growth today. It's just like comparing a Kia Sedona minivan with all it's 10 year warranty will outsell a Toyota Sienna. It's not going to happen.
I guess I didn't make myself clear. What I was trying to say is that while yes the 450H will be offered by Lexus, it's price/performance can't be anywhere near the GS460, otherwise no one will buy the 460. It has nothing to do with diesels - I know Lexus won't sell a diesel in NA for the foreseable future.

I guess I didn't make myself clear. What I was trying to say is that while yes the 450H will be offered by Lexus, it's price/performance can't be anywhere near the GS460, otherwise no one will buy the 460. It has nothing to do with diesels - I know Lexus won't sell a diesel in NA for the foreseable future.

You made yourself perfectly clear. 1) You never intend to buy a diesel car. 2) You have nothing good to say about the GS450h w/a pessimist attitude. Just wait and see what's to come instead of ranting and nitpicking on what Lexus is going to do for the general consumer. The car isn't even out yet and you're the first to cry wolf. :confused:

From the CarConnection:

Lexus Readying Second Hybrid

Toyota's luxury arm, Lexus, plans to roll out a second hybrid-electric vehicle with a media preview scheduled during the upcoming New York Auto Show. The GS450h will be the first luxury sedan with a hybrid powertrain, and the first HEV in any form on a rear-wheel-drive platform. Its Big Apple unveiling is scheduled to occur about the same time the first Lexus hybrid, the RX400h crossover, hits showrooms. Company officials are being tightlipped about specific details, but Lexus will start with the new GS430, and mate a version of its Synergy Drive system to the sedan's already beefy V-8. Where early hybrids, such as Toyota's breakthrough Prius, focused on delivering maximum mileage, Lexus is taking a different tack. The RX400h will trade off a bit of fuel economy to increase acceleration. And in the GS450h sedan, the emphasis will be on "pure performance," hinted Lexus General Manager Denny Clements, noting that electric motors deliver maximum torque during initial acceleration. Expect to see the hybrid roll onto the market about a year after the launch of the new, gasoline-powered GS models. -Paul A. Eisenstein

The Hybrid is going to be a v6 for the GS450h. There is no exact word whether they will retune a V8 version of the GS or work a hybrid performance version. We have yet to find that out.


I retract my statement now that more info has surfaced. :thumbup:

I retract my statement now that more info has surfaced. :thumbup:

i am confused, so it's going to be v8 + hybrid?

So that means no GT model and no GS460 either in the short term?

Sounds like the same thing Honda is doing with the Accord.

i am confused, so it's going to be v8 + hybrid?

From those press releases from The Car Connection that were posted, looks like it will be a V8 hybrid.

So that means no GT model and no GS460 either in the short term?


GT model is still in the air but Lexus has been considering it for quite some time already. GS460 won't happen until 08 if that.

So that means no GT model and no GS460 either in the short term?

Sounds like the same thing Honda is doing with the Accord.

and how is that? Accord has an V8? I dont see why is wrong to have several choices, if you really live in Swiss then you should be used to BMW and MB having 10 different engine choices, with most of them conflicting with each other.

Let me see, you can buy 5 series in germany, right now: 520i, 525d, 525i, 530d, 530i, 535d, 545i.
Most of these engines conflict each other... Honestly, with 530d, you probably dont need any other engine, but we are not all the same and people choose different options. Same thing happens with hybrids as well. It is just an another powertrain option, and however good it might be, it took diesels 50 years to even up with gasoline engines in Europe in terms of sales...

GS having 3 options is hardly conflicting.

p.s. if RX with 225hp engine is being called RX400h, then GS with 280hp engine might be called 450h. Actually, those numbers add up quite nicely :-).

and how is that? Accord has an V8?

What I meant was that they're going the "performance" route and not the "much better milage route". While the milage is better on the Accord hybrid, the main thing most talk about is the fact that the hybrid was added to the top of the line model and the performance increase. When Motorweek reviewed the Accord hybrid they pointed out that while a good car, the hybrid would be better served in the I4 Accord to provide the "much better milage".

p.s. if RX with 225hp engine is being called RX400h, then GS with 280hp engine might be called 450h. Actually, those numbers add up quite nicely :-).
If the above quote turns out to be correct, the base engine would be the V8 with 300HP to which some X electric HP would be added. It seems to be little doubt left that the model will be called GS450H.

Hmmmm.....as far as I knew, the GS450H was going to be a V6 hybrid. But a V8 hybrid, if that's the case, will make the GS450H more powerful than the upcoming GS460, unless Toyota is introducing a brand new V8, instead of stroking the current 4.3L. To me, at least symbolically, would make the GS450H the "GT" version .... unless of course, the "GT" version, hypothetically spkeaing, will be something even stronger :D.

There is alot of conflicting info about the 450h being a v6 or v8. I'm still... :confused:

The real preliminary stats on the GS450h should surface shortly. I personally feel Hybrid technology is definitely something to be excited about.

There is alot of conflicting info about the 450h being a v6 or v8. I'm still... :confused:

The real preliminary stats on the GS450h should surface shortly. I personally feel Hybrid technology is definitely something to be excited about.

Yes ... I would say that for me, a performance hybrid line of cars will be more exciting than adding superchargers, or turbochargers.

If the above quote turns out to be correct, the base engine would be the V8 with 300HP to which some X electric HP would be added. It seems to be little doubt left that the model will be called GS450H.

argh... 3.5l V6 - 280hp.

actually, it would make little sense to me to use V8 since then they would lose advantage of better mpg in V6. 280hp V6 plus 70hp electric engine would end up as pretty powerful combo, in both mpg and power sense...

BTW - RX400h = 330hp + 70hp=400h
GS450h=280hp+70hp=450hp

And also, like in Prius, gasoline engine should be "detuned" to deliver better mpg and torque so it probably will end up having a bit less hp than before, yet with the help of electric engine go much faster overall. (i am picking this up from my head, but 105hp engine in Prius was detuned to some 87hp or something similar).

argh... 3.5l V6 - 280hp.

actually, it would make little sense to me to use V8 since then they would lose advantage of better mpg in V6. 280hp V6 plus 70hp electric engine would end up as pretty powerful combo, in both mpg and power sense...

BTW - RX400h = 330hp + 70hp=400h
GS450h=280hp+70hp=450hp

And also, like in Prius, gasoline engine should be "detuned" to deliver better mpg and torque so it probably will end up having a bit less hp than before, yet with the help of electric engine go much faster overall. (i am picking this up from my head, but 105hp engine in Prius was detuned to some 87hp or something similar).


Very interesting math. :egads:

280hp + 70hp = 450hp

The RX400h has been confirmed with 270 hp and not 400 hp.

With hybrids horsepower is not where the advantages is. It is the instant available torque from the electric motor at low speed.

Chu...

1. No one is sure how Lexus figures out the name for its hybrids.
2. THe benefits are
A. Instant torque
B. More HP
C. Better gas mileage
D. Tax credit
E. Quieter, since the car is silent when only being ran on the electric engines

1. No one is sure how Lexus figures out the name for its hybrids.
2. THe benefits are
A. Instant torque
B. More HP
C. Better gas mileage
D. Tax credit
E. Quieter, since the car is silent when only being ran on the electric engines
D. Is going down to $500 next year (from $2K) and gone the year after.

argh... 3.5l V6 - 280hp.

actually, it would make little sense to me to use V8 since then they would lose advantage of better mpg in V6. 280hp V6 plus 70hp electric engine would end up as pretty powerful combo, in both mpg and power sense...

Like I said, maybe they're going the Honda Accord hybrid route - i.e. adding the hybrid to the top of the line model mostly for performance.

Like I said, maybe they're going the Honda Accord hybrid route - i.e. adding the hybrid to the top of the line model mostly for performance.

well, you have to first understand that Accord is an mild hybrid, with only 16hp and that can not go on electric engine alone. What you get with pairing of V6 and electric engines is that you basically get an 70hp boost at any time you press the pedal. It is like have extremly efficient supercharger that works from 0 to 6,000 RPM. Which is why for all purposes intended, you will actually feel as if you are in some beefy V8 engined car while you still get "decent" mileage - it might not be actually Corolla like if you press it, but then again it will always be better than standard RX while providing with better performance at all times....

And yes, what Lexus and Toyota are going for is Performance and at slighter level, saving the world (economy, emissions).

p.s. 70hp is in Prius, it is unknow what exact system will RX400h have... In fact, it should have 2 different options (AWD and FWD drive systems).

1. No one is sure how Lexus figures out the name for its hybrids. 2. THe benefits are A. Instant torque B. More HP C. Better gas mileage D. Tax credit E. Quieter, since the car is silent when only being ran on the electric engines

As spwolf just pointed out, you can add reduced emmissions to the benefit list.

Expanding on 1Sicklex's point C - lowered fuel costs for any fuel efficient vehicle means lower total cost of ownership. For instance, if I was driving a new prius instead of my GS400, I'd save approx $80/month in fuel costs, over the 4yr loan term of my GS that would save $3840, not to shabby.

It will sell in the DC area cause the buyers can use the HOV lane driving alone. :rolleyes:


LA also has the HOV lane for Hybrids :)

March, 2005 Automobile mag reports the 450h will be a V-8 hybrid. This is not confirmed.

March, 2005 Automobile mag reports the 450h will be a V-8 hybrid. This is not confirmed.

I heard this from my dealer today actually. He said it will be released this fall.

I heard this from my dealer today actually. He said it will be released this fall.

The GS450h will be released in Fall 2006 as a 2007 model. There are alot of conflicting reports that the GS450h will be a 3.5L V6 variant w/electric motors powering both front and rear, and there are sources that say it will be a reworked 4.3L V8. It's a matter of time before we see the actual specs.

The GS450h will be released in Fall 2006 as a 2007 model. There are alot of conflicting reports that the GS450h will be a 3.5L V6 variant w/electric motors powering both front and rear, and there are sources that say it will be a reworked 4.3L V8. It's a matter of time before we see the actual specs.

Well, guess what I'm saving for. :) I really hope the V-8 rumors are true. But even with the V-6, looking at the RX400H reviews, the hyrbid is an instant torque beast. Street start and 0-60 time is almost indentical. And seeing the hybrid is AWD, I think the GS hybrid would be AWD as well.

Well, guess what I'm saving for. :) I really hope the V-8 rumors are true. But even with the V-6, looking at the RX400H reviews, the hyrbid is an instant torque beast. Street start and 0-60 time is almost indentical. And seeing the hybrid is AWD, I think the GS hybrid would be AWD as well.

I hope you're right about the hybrid being AWD. My lease on my 2002 is up on Dec 1st and I'm debating whether or not to wait for the hybrid (and buy my 2002 at the end of the lease) since I'd want the GS hybrid if it has AWD.

I hope you're right about the hybrid being AWD. My lease on my 2002 is up on Dec 1st and I'm debating whether or not to wait for the hybrid (and buy my 2002 at the end of the lease) since I'd want the GS hybrid if it has AWD.
Yeah, in the RX, one of the batteries powers the rear wheels, thus AWD.

I did not know that this thread existed or I would have commented earlier. The subject of the upcoming GS450h came up at the factory training on Jan 10th. The factory product specialists told us that the new GS Hybrid would come out in about a year and have 3.5 V6 310HP engine mated with an Electric motor generator in a RWD format. This surprised me as we had just learned about the RX400h AWD platform and I thought the GS version would be similar.

The RX400h designation means that the 3.3L V6 and the electric motors will give the theoretical performance of a 4 liter engine (V8). So the GS450h should have equivalent performance of a 4.5 liter V8. That either retires the 4.3L V8 or signals the replacement of a larger V8 (4.6?). The 3.5 liter 310HP V6 will be used first in the new IS350 this fall. The entry IS250 will come in an AWD and RWD versions. The IS350 will be a limited production so get in early with your deposit if you want one. The IS350 will come only in an automatic shift. The IS250 RWD will have a 6 speed manual version available. All of these introductions leave room for a future GS350 310HP V6.

Hybrids take advantage of the characteristics of High power electric motors which is torque at maximum around 1-2,000 RPM. This torque is available for short 6-10 second bursts and then it starts to wane as the battery power is sapped. So think of the the motor as an electric turbo charger. In the RX there is three electric motor/generators. Two function as power adders and generators for the battery whenever you slow down. Performance is the main benefit of Hybrids so it is a perfect fit for enthusiasts. There is 5 kW of headroom in the RX400h motors so if you can give them more juice they can perform at a higher output. By merely changing the battery to a higher output you might gain 15-20 HP! Who knows what type of motor/generator will be in the GS450h. This car will not be for tree huggers like the Prius but it will be enviromentally friendly.

You're undoubtedly correct that when it comes out they'll introduce a larger V8. I don't think they'll drop it yet. Hybrid has to have general acceptance across the board before we start transitioning from the current norm.

The 3.5 liter 310HP V6 will be used first in the new IS350 this fall... The IS350 will be a limited production so get in early with your deposit if you want one.

I guess this is off topic and should be asked in another board, but since you mentioned it here and you're as good a source as any, oh well:*do you know when in the fall the IS350 will be out? Is there any preliminary pricing or ballpark numbers, or are we going to have to wait for Geneva for that?
Also, what do you mean by limited production? Do you mean limited like 5-10K units per year, or just that it's going to be in such high demand like the Prius that there's going to be a long waiting list? Or is that also going to be answered at Geneva?

The IS350 will be produced in small amounts. Our dealership expects to get maybe one a month. We get more SC430's than that. We are a medium size store selling 150-170 Lexus a month. Elizabeth works for the biggest of the West and they sell three times as many as we do plus California sells the most IS series. She will have more. They are already fielding a racing team from the last Gold cup and will compete in '06. Ours will come loaded and we are asking for 18" wheels which are optional.

We don't get real dates of introduction but we are told Septemberish.

Thanks, I appreciate the information. And actually, I will be moving to L.A. in the fall, so Longo will be one of the dealerships I check out (my parents actually bought an ES300 from there like 12 years ago), as the new IS350 & GS330 are both on my short list.

Sorry everyone, I'll let you have your thread back now. :o

I did not know that this thread existed or I would have commented earlier. The subject of the upcoming GS450h came up at the factory training on Jan 10th. The factory product specialists told us that the new GS Hybrid would come out in about a year and have 3.5 V6 310HP engine mated with an Electric motor generator in a RWD format. This surprised me as we had just learned about the RX400h AWD platform and I thought the GS version would be similar.

The RX400h designation means that the 3.3L V6 and the electric motors will give the theoretical performance of a 4 liter engine (V8). So the GS450h should have equivalent performance of a 4.5 liter V8. That either retires the 4.3L V8 or signals the replacement of a larger V8 (4.6?). The 3.5 liter 310HP V6 will be used first in the new IS350 this fall. The entry IS250 will come in an AWD and RWD versions. The IS350 will be a limited production so get in early with your deposit if you want one. The IS350 will come only in an automatic shift. The IS250 RWD will have a 6 speed manual version available. All of these introductions leave room for a future GS350 310HP V6.

Hybrids take advantage of the characteristics of High power electric motors which is torque at maximum around 1-2,000 RPM. This torque is available for short 6-10 second bursts and then it starts to wane as the battery power is sapped. So think of the the motor as an electric turbo charger. In the RX there is three electric motor/generators. Two function as power adders and generators for the battery whenever you slow down. Performance is the main benefit of Hybrids so it is a perfect fit for enthusiasts. There is 5 kW of headroom in the RX400h motors so if you can give them more juice they can perform at a higher output. By merely changing the battery to a higher output you might gain 15-20 HP! Who knows what type of motor/generator will be in the GS450h. This car will not be for tree huggers like the Prius but it will be enviromentally friendly.

Rockville, THANK YOU!! Yes, we heard and figured the new 3.5 would be tuned to over 300hp for Lexus. This is simply sensational.
So let me clarify, the 450h will be 310hp+ the electic power? Or is it 310hp combined?

And yes, clearly, the GS 460 has to jump in power. Thanks for the explanations as well.

I guess this is off topic and should be asked in another board, but since you mentioned it here and you're as good a source as any, oh well:*do you know when in the fall the IS350 will be out? Is there any preliminary pricing or ballpark numbers, or are we going to have to wait for Geneva for that?
Also, what do you mean by limited production? Do you mean limited like 5-10K units per year, or just that it's going to be in such high demand like the Prius that there's going to be a long waiting list? Or is that also going to be answered at Geneva?

Horsepower for the IS350 is rumored to be above 300hp (we were told around 320hp for the 3.5L 2GR-FSE variant). This is from our briefing with Lexus Marketing - Ralph Pisco and Chuck Goldsboro - Team Lexus, at California Speedway at the Lexus Grand Am Cup Weekend back in October 04.

Thanks, I appreciate the information. And actually, I will be moving to L.A. in the fall, so Longo will be one of the dealerships I check out (my parents actually bought an ES300 from there like 12 years ago), as the new IS350 & GS330 are both on my short list.

Sorry everyone, I'll let you have your thread back now. :o

Eliz will be the one to see and probably the only one you'll ever have to deal with. ;)

Horsepower for the IS350 is rumored to be above 300hp (we were told around 320hp for the 3.5L 2GR-FSE variant). This is from our briefing with Lexus Marketing - Ralph Pisco and Chuck Goldsboro - Team Lexus, at California Speedway at the Lexus Grand Am Cup Weekend back in October 04.
Lordy, that car will be a rocket in auto or manual form. Lighter weight+ more power+ manual= :eek2:

To clarify the hybrid (GS450h) will add a motor/generator to the 3.5 liter V6 from the IS350. On the RX400h they detune the V6 for most the fuel efficient configuration. The GS450h will be built for speed and will be a RWD only. IS hybrid to follow GS and then LS etc. Eventually you will be able to breathe the air in LA and DC...

Lordy, that car will be a rocket in auto or manual form. Lighter weight+ more power+ manual= :eek2:
Ahh. I think he said IS350 auto only. :thumbdn:

. . . The IS350 will be a limited production so get in early with your deposit if you want one. The IS350 will come only in an automatic shift. The IS250 RWD will have a 6 speed manual version available . . ..
:thumbdn: :thumbdn: :thumbdn: I thought they intend to be a true 3 series competitor, I guess not. :( And I can dismiss any possibility of ever trading my G35 coupe for a IS350.

:thumbdn: :thumbdn: :thumbdn: I thought they intend to be a true 3 series competitor, I guess not. :( And I can dismiss any possibility of ever trading my G35 coupe for a IS350.

Just wait! The car isn't even out yet nor are the official stats. It will come! :thumbup:

Ahh. I think he said IS350 auto only. :thumbdn:

That's just preliminary info which is not official yet. Just hang on!

Stop and go traffic has narrowed the demand in the marketplace for manual shifts. The venerable 3 series is produced in fewer and fewer stickshifts each year. We currently have a 5-speed IS300 and it does not fly out the door either. We have not been briefed on the performance of the IS250 which will be available in a 6-Speed manual. The IS350 will be an automatic with a 6 speed automatic with a sequential shift slot like the LS and GS have. I enjoy a stickshift myself so i always use the +/- slot. It is more intuitive than the E-shift which we employed on the GS400, GS300 and IS300. I had a very good customer who wanted to trade in his BMW X5 manual shift. It had every option including a high performance engine chip. We own a BMW store and they didn't want it so I called the other area stores and they were not interested. It was Black on Black and very clean. This same customer is on the list of interest for the GS430 when it arrives in a couple of weeks. He learned that the market for sticks can be dicey. Manufacturers try to mirror the market in their offerings. Even Ferraris are automatics, Formula race cars are automatics, Drag racers are automatic etc....

IS350 is auto only??? Boooo Lexus. Looks like I'll have to look elsewhere for the sports sedan I want to buy.

IS350 is auto only??? Boooo Lexus. Looks like I'll have to look elsewhere for the sports sedan I want to buy.

Just be patient. The official word on the tranny options for the IS250 and IS350 have yet to be released.

Stop and go traffic has narrowed the demand in the marketplace for manual shifts. The venerable 3 series is produced in fewer and fewer stickshifts each year. We currently have a 5-speed IS300 and it does not fly out the door either. We have not been briefed on the performance of the IS250 which will be available in a 6-Speed manual. The IS350 will be an automatic with a 6 speed automatic with a sequential shift slot like the LS and GS have. I enjoy a stickshift myself so i always use the +/- slot. It is more intuitive than the E-shift which we employed on the GS400, GS300 and IS300. I had a very good customer who wanted to trade in his BMW X5 manual shift. It had every option including a high performance engine chip. We own a BMW store and they didn't want it so I called the other area stores and they were not interested. It was Black on Black and very clean. This same customer is on the list of interest for the GS430 when it arrives in a couple of weeks. He learned that the market for sticks can be dicey. Manufacturers try to mirror the market in their offerings. Even Ferraris are automatics, Formula race cars are automatics, Drag racers are automatic etc....
At least a real stick shift is still offered as an option in the cars you mentioned, if that's the case why do they even bother to offer a stick shift for the IS250. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :thumbdn: People who buys the 250 should even care less . . . :rolleyes:

Hmmm, I can see this (no manual for the larger engine). Especially since the engine is in the Avalon now and will be in the GS sooner than later. Those cars don't come with manuals. So it would cost tons of money to develop a manual for the engine for only 1 car. UNLESS, that engine is shared in the Supra (If that rumor comes true).

As he stated, manuals are nearly dead. The M5 is SMG only for now. Ferraris are selling their Paddle shifters like nuts. Even the 911 Turbo can have an automatic now.

I did find it sad that Infinitit did not offer a manual M35. Since it shares the same engine as the G35. They must have realized, it was not cost effective.

Which is sad, b/c even though manuals may be 5% of sales, ITS THE POINT that it is available.

Please dont take dealership employee talk to much to your heart. We all think the best, but the truth is that not many people in USA know about Toyota/Lexus plans, and if they do, they dont blabber them around. Everything said among Toyota/Lexus personel at this low levels is just talk and wishful thinking.

We all like to talk like we know stuff and some of the wildest roumours out there were started by dealership employees.

At least it would be safe to say that IS350 wont be some low volume model in IS line, thats just nonsense. As to manual trannys, they actually might offer them on IS, since they said key to new IS would be wealth of options. GR series of engines already have manual transmissions mated to them so there arent any problems there.

At least it would be safe to say that IS350 wont be some low volume model in IS line, thats just nonsense. As to manual trannys, they actually might offer them on IS, since they said key to new IS would be wealth of options. GR series of engines already have manual transmissions mated to them so there arent any problems there.

You can speculate with the best of them :p

Please dont take dealership employee talk to much to your heart. We all think the best, but the truth is that not many people in USA know about Toyota/Lexus plans, and if they do, they dont blabber them around. Everything said among Toyota/Lexus personel at this low levels is just talk and wishful thinking.


Well said. :)

When I see something on CL that I know is false or I can add something of value, I'll try to post. I learn a lot from CL because it is such a free for all of information. Like pirahna computing. As far as the new IS350 is concerned I got this info directly from factory engineers at training sessions and feedback from production commitee meetings that are ongoing. In early March the official announcement will be made in Geneva by Denny Clements about the new IS. It is somewhat of a throwing down of the gauntlet to do this in Europe where Lexus already has the highest CSI of any brand in say Germany.....In 2004 the IS300 had a 1.5% market share. The plan at the end of '06 is to ramp that up to 7%..... The IS250 will be the volume car with entry pricing, and AWD and a RWD 6 speed manual version available. In fact in the Eastern region we expect about 95% of the IS250's will be AWD. I am guessing a HP around 215 to 220. The high performance IS350 will cost a lot more and therefor be a much smaller production. It should be rated between 310 and 320 HP with approx. 280 lb./ft of torque. A racing team is already formed and gearing up for competition. Lexus won the '04 Rolex Sport Car championship in the driver and team categories. I could bore you with feature content of the new IS but that might be overkill. Figure GS in a smaller package. The GS is coming to a dealer near you next week. Do yourself a favor and drive one if you can. You will be stunned......

When I see something on CL that I know is false or I can add something of value, I'll try to post. I learn a lot from CL because it is such a free for all of information. Like pirahna computing. As far as the new IS350 is concerned I got this info directly from factory engineers at training sessions and feedback from production commitee meetings that are ongoing. In early March the official announcement will be made in Geneva by Denny Clements about the new IS. It is somewhat of a throwing down of the gauntlet to do this in Europe where Lexus already has the highest CSI of any brand in say Germany.....In 2004 the IS300 had a 1.5% market share. The plan at the end of '06 is to ramp that up to 7%..... The IS250 will be the volume car with entry pricing, and AWD and a RWD 6 speed manual version available. In fact in the Eastern region we expect about 95% of the IS250's will be AWD. I am guessing a HP around 215 to 220. The high performance IS350 will cost a lot more and therefor be a much smaller production. It should be rated between 310 and 320 HP with approx. 280 lb./ft of torque. A racing team is already formed and gearing up for competition. Lexus won the '04 Rolex Sport Car championship in the driver and team categories. I could bore you with feature content of the new IS but that might be overkill. Figure GS in a smaller package. The GS is coming to a dealer near you next week. Do yourself a favor and drive one if you can. You will be stunned......


Wow, so the IS350 may really be something. I can't wait! :thumbup:

Please dont take dealership employee talk to much to your heart. We all think the best, but the truth is that not many people in USA know about Toyota/Lexus plans, and if they do, they dont blabber them around. Everything said among Toyota/Lexus personel at this low levels is just talk and wishful thinking.

We all like to talk like we know stuff and some of the wildest roumours out there were started by dealership employees.

At least it would be safe to say that IS350 wont be some low volume model in IS line, thats just nonsense. As to manual trannys, they actually might offer them on IS, since they said key to new IS would be wealth of options. GR series of engines already have manual transmissions mated to them so there arent any problems there.

Your Lexus experience is surely more extensive than mine but as a rookie to this forum I am much more educated as a result of contributions such as those of Rockville and Longo Lexus (Liz) who are admittedly "dealership employees". I hope they continue full speed ahead. They certainly have channels and connections far beyond what we could otherwise glean from the internet alone.

Thanks to them and others who contribute their time to this forum to help and who especially us "newbies" to Lexus.

Well, guess what I'm saving for. :) I really hope the V-8 rumors are true. But even with the V-6, looking at the RX400H reviews, the hyrbid is an instant torque beast. Street start and 0-60 time is almost indentical. And seeing the hybrid is AWD, I think the GS hybrid would be AWD as well.

I recently heard from a reliable inside source the release date is May 2006. It was reiterated that it could be V6 or V8; however, it seems that he leaned towards a V8. We did not pry further and I cannot say if he was holding back information or this was an intentional information gap between Corporate and my source.

Does anyone know the expected gas mileage on the new GS hybrids that will be out next year?

Does anyone know the expected gas mileage on the new GS hybrids that will be out next year?

From what is rumored the 3.5L V6 2GR possible FXE (F=head design X = Hybrid designation E=Electronic Fuel Injection) will have the output of a V8 but tremedous fuel economy. A V8 hybrid sounds very promising, but that would be a very expensive direction for Toyota or Lexus to mass produce at this point. Since the 3.0L 3GR-FSE V6 found in the new GS300 gets a phenomenal 22 City and 30 Hwy, you can probably bet the GS450h sedan coming out as a 2007 in 2006, will have around 30mpg avg or better fuel economy.

We have been told by Lexus that the GS450h will have the 300+ horsepower V6 shared with the upcoming IS350. The goal of the vehicle will be to demonstrate the performance capabillity of a hybrid, less emphasis on fuel economy.

We have been told by Lexus that the GS450h will have the 300+ horsepower V6 shared with the upcoming IS350. The goal of the vehicle will be to demonstrate the performance capabillity of a hybrid, less emphasis on fuel economy.

Exactly. :)

Exactly. :)

Fair enough about the 300+ V6 hybrid. However, if this is what Lexus presents then what place does the 430 have?

Maybe this has been addressed but are you guys thinking this V6 hybrid will be considered the GT or do you believe that is another matter altogether?

Fair enough about the 300+ V6 hybrid. However, if this is what Lexus presents then what place does the 430 have?

Maybe this has been addressed but are you guys thinking this V6 hybrid will be considered the GT or do you believe that is another matter altogether?

There will be a place for the 430 when it is later replaced. The talk of the 450h going as a GT version has been talked about. At this point we can only hope and wish for the best until we get the real word from Lexus. It's definitely going to be an interesting next couple of years for the Lexus nameplate.