Bleak future for Iraqi democracy

[Vegassc400]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...q_041210112957

With a Shiite majority in Iraq, it is a very real possibility that we could end up with another oppressive regime in Iraq. One that resembles Iran. It sounds like many will vote based on faith and not what is necessarily best for the country. If that happens, it could be a major loss for our country who is supposed to be there to provide the Iraqis freedom. What should the US do if these less than moderate Shiites are elected and take a majority of the positions?

[WhiteTiger]

Under the "old" Iraq I was under the impression that the Minority Sunni's oppressed the Majority Shiites. Why wouldn't one expect the majority to vote for like minded people, especially after being repressed for years? As long as there is some balance with the population split so that it resembles the split of the Iraq people (both Sunni's and Shiite's) then I am fine with it.

This is going to be a work in progress for many years to come and whether the 1st election is a success or failure it will be part of the growing pains that the Iraqi people will have to presevere thru for at least the next decade. Understand, no matter what happens there will be problems with the 1st election (maybe more), it's how those issues and problems are dealt with which will determine the LONG term success or failure of Democracy in Iraq.

[mmarshall]

No...I don't think the future is that bleak at all for democracy in Iraq...once we finally get rid of these insurgents in Fallujah. In fact, democracy there is inevitable. After 25 years of Saddam's brutal regime, most of the population simply will not TOLERATE anything else. We have a good, honest man in Allawi, and a good ally, one who is himself dedicated to democracy. The only REAL problem is the fanatical insurgents that just won't give up....the last surviving members of the Saddam die-hards, and the Al-Qeada sympathizers. They are being slowly killed off...and when they are finally gone, the country will finally be rid of evil and corruption for good. Bush ( and Allawi ) said that democracy WOULD come to Iraq. They did NOT mean MAYBE....and indeed, it WILL come...it is almost here.

[Vegassc400]

Noone is doubting that democracy is the goal. I believe all walks of life will probably be represented. My concern is the leadership of this coalition of candidates is lead by a cleric with ties to Iran. The article does not say how far in the pockets of Iran this man is but could very well be an extremist and picking like minded people. Also remember the first elected officials will be writing Iraqs constitution and having even a few extremists involved in the process could be detrimental.

[The_Hitman]

I read a piece in the NY Times last week which also painted a bleak picture of the future of Iraq based on current trends.

[jaydunn]

Originally posted by The_Hitman
I read a piece in the NY Times last week which also painted a bleak picture of the future of Iraq based on current trends.

"Current trends"? Iraq was the birthplace of civilization approx. 6000 years ago. In all that time there has been democratic rule for not one single minute. Why would anyone think it's going to be a good idea now?

[bitkahuna]

Originally posted by Vegassc400
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...q_041210112957

With a Shiite majority in Iraq, it is a very real possibility that we could end up with another oppressive regime in Iraq. One that resembles Iran. It sounds like many will vote based on faith and not what is necessarily best for the country. If that happens, it could be a major loss for our country who is supposed to be there to provide the Iraqis freedom. What should the US do if these less than moderate Shiites are elected and take a majority of the positions?

You mean like how many Christians in the U.S. voted based on faith and not what was necessarily best for the country?

I think Iraq is going to be hugely better off within a year. Will it be non-violent? No, but neither is the U.S.

[Vegassc400]

You mean like how many Christians in the U.S. voted based on faith and not what was necessarily best for the country?

Smart ass!

I believe that faith is a great thing but should not be put ahead of the welfare of the people.

[mmarshall]

Originally posted by Vegassc400
Smart ass!

I believe that faith is a great thing but should not be put ahead of the welfare of the people.

Well...a lot of secular societies where faith is not much of an issue have exactly that...cradle-to-grave welfare. Sweden and Germany are perfect examples. Me? No, thanks......I have faith in God and work for a living.

[Vegassc400]

Actually, what I meant by "welfare" was "for the good of the people". I wasn't refering to an actual "welfare state".

[bitkahuna]

Originally posted by Vegassc400
Actually, what I meant by "welfare" was "for the good of the people". I wasn't refering to an actual "welfare state".

It's open for huge debate. Communists thought that every working for everyone else was good for the people.

[Lil4X]

Originally posted by bitkahuna
Communists thought that every working for everyone else was good for the people.

But it always came crashing down when the first guy discovered he could lay back, do nothing, and reap the benefits of everyone else's work. It made no difference in his income or lifestyle, thus with no incentive, he stops working. Eventually, everyone stops working, or slows work output to a snail's pace.

Government becomes authoritarian, providing the missing incentive, but when a significant portion of the work force is now in labor camps, the entire economic system goes on life support. A net importer of foodgrains, the Soviet Union in its last 25 years was humiliated – forced to buy below-market from the US, the capitalists that Khrushchev promised to "bury" in the '50s.

Since the death of Mao and most of the "old guard", China is moving from a pre-industrial to a mid 20th Century economy. Eastern Europe has moved from deep poverty to an embryonic capitalist economy since the fall of the Berlin wall. While serious economic problems still exist among the former Soviet client states, for the first time since WWII they are able to see hope on the horizon.

Cuba, long propped up by the sputtering Soviet economy, is now the western hemisphere's sub-Saharan Africa, unable to even feed her dwindling population without outside support. The single remaining Stalinist regime, North Korea, is literally starving. President Kim can look out today on his devastated landscape and see nothing but ashes - the final burial ground of Marxism.

Socialism is now in the cross-hairs. Old Europe has been flooded by third-world immigrants seeking the largess of the Socialist European welfare states. Centuries of European culture is disappearing – the center of Western art, music, and philosophy is giving way to a huge influx of African/Indian/Middle-Eastern people – a large portion of whom are primarily there for the social programs that do not exist in their homelands. In an age of cheap, available air transport, the European “field of dreams” is irresistible. Socialism built it, now they are coming.

The bleak, crowded, internationalist, media-saturated cityscapes of “Blade Runner” could well be our future. Filthy, polluted, dismal, amoral, hopeless, they stand as a warning to us. Individuals built the cities, drove the industry, invented the technology, manufactured the wealth, and gave us the comfortable lifestyles we enjoy today – in their final act; the “people” will destroy it all.

I need coffee . . .