IRAN suspends uranium enhancement BUT..........

[O. L. T.]

...The real question is.............. how do you think that conversation went down? These negotiators are slick. They have to give and take. The question is, what did they give? You have to wonder what is in it for IRAN.

The situation that DIDN'T happen:

Negotiator: We think you are making nuclear wepons with this uranium, so stop making it.

IRAN: Okie dokie. http://www.lextech.org/images/confused.gif

[videcormeum]

Yeah - who knows what went down - right now it looks like they've struck a deal with the EU. I don't know if this applies to us. But it's hard to imagine that the program would *stop* for the EU and *continue* for the United States.

I've got a strong inclination that, whatever was offered, the Iranians could care less and will probably continue that enrichment program. Of course, perhaps nothing was offered - perhaps the conversation went something like:

Diplomats: "Quit it or what's currently sitting in Fallujah will be moved to Tehran."
Crazy Khatami: "Umm, OK."

But Israel, as it was mentioned in another thread, is probably going to end up blowing that development plant up.

Sharon presents about the worst chance for peace between Muslims and the Jewish people.

I'd like to see the Israel-Palestine conflict concluded - but, in my estimation, that will not happen so long as we've got radicals on both sides in positions of considerable power.

M.

[mmarshall]

Originally posted by whipimpin
But Israel, as it was mentioned in another thread, is probably going to end up blowing that development plant up.

M. [/b]

No....Iran is too far away for the Israeli Air force. They don't have large tanker-planes like we do, and even if they did, there is too much potentially hostile territory to fly over. We are probably going to end up doing it from carriers.
I read that same thread you mentioned....see my response to it in depth. I'm not going to re-type and re-post the whole thing over again.

[SharpLS-96]

So Iran is “partly cleared?” Based on their own declarations of how much nuclear material they have?
Why do I find this somewhat less than totally reassuring? Probably because the Iranian Parliament screamed "Death To America"!!

And the bit about Tehran promising the IAEA to stop enriching uranium? How does that square with this paragraph, from later in the same article?

Iran’s chief nuclear negotiator, Hassan Rohani, said Iran would never renounce enrichment, a process of purifying uranium for use as fuel in power plants or weapons, and declared that the Europeans had assented to that goal.

But a Western diplomat close to the EU-Iran talks disagreed.

“We still want Iran’s uranium enrichment program terminated,” he said, adding that ending Iran’s ability to make bomb-grade uranium and plutonium would be a principal EU goal.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...uclear_iran_dc

UN Partly Clears Iran on Nuke Issue, Doubts Remain
2 hours, 19 minutes ago World - Reuters
By Louis Charbonneau

VIENNA (Reuters) - The U.N. nuclear watchdog partly cleared Iran on Monday of charges it tried to make a nuclear bomb, a day after Tehran promised Europe it would freeze what critics said was an atomic weapons program.

Diplomats said this was a clear victory for Iran and would make it tough for Washington to force the United Nations (news - web sites)' agency to refer Tehran's case to the U.N. Security Council this month.

But the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) did not dismiss the U.S. view that Tehran is secretly developing nuclear weapons, saying it could not rule out covert activities in Iran.

In a bid to ease international concern about its nuclear ambitions, Iran said it would stop converting uranium from Nov. 22. Tehran promised the IAEA it would suspend all uranium enrichment and processing activities as part of a deal with the European Union (news - web sites) to avert any U.N. Security Council sanctions.

"All the declared nuclear material in Iran has been accounted for, and therefore such material is not diverted to prohibited activities," the IAEA report said, language which diplomats said clearly referred to possible work on weapons.

"The Agency is, however, not in a position to conclude that there are no undeclared nuclear materials or activities in Iran," the report said.

Oil-rich Iran insists its nuclear program is aimed at the peaceful generation of electricity.

The IAEA acknowledged that its legal authority to investigate activities directly related to atomic bomb-making was limited. Its report said the agency's chief, Mohamed ElBaradei, would only issue future reports on its investigation of Iran "as appropriate."

Diplomats said this was another victory for Iran, which wants the IAEA probe over and its case dropped from the agenda of the IAEA board of governors after its Nov. 25 meeting.

However, the IAEA said it would continue to investigate the discovery of traces of enriched uranium found in Iran and other issues that have never been satisfactorily explained. The uranium traces raised concerns that Tehran had been secretly enriching uranium for use in weapons.

The IAEA said it has no evidence to support such suspicions, but said that this remained one possible explanation.

EU WANTS ENRICHMENT PROGRAM TERMINATED

Iran's chief nuclear negotiator, Hassan Rohani, said Iran would never renounce enrichment, a process of purifying uranium for use as fuel in power plants or weapons, and declared that the Europeans had assented to that goal.

But a Western diplomat close to the EU-Iran talks disagreed.

"We still want Iran's uranium enrichment program terminated," he said, adding that ending Iran's ability to make bomb-grade uranium and plutonium would be a principal EU goal.

Washington does not trust Iran and believes Tehran is using talks with the EU to avoid the Security Council and to buy time to continue developing the capability to build a bomb in secret.

Diplomats said U.S. skepticism has its roots in Washington's own experience with North Korea (news - web sites), which made a similar deal with the United States in 1994 but later admitted to cheating on it.

One diplomat said that the section of the EU-Iran agreement in which Tehran pledges to support the development of a democratic Iraq (news - web sites) and to combat the al Qaeda guerrilla network would help make the deal more attractive to Washington.

"These are things the Americans really care about," the diplomat, who is close to the EU-Iran talks, told Reuters.

Rohani also confirmed what Iran said repeatedly in recent months -- that the suspension would be short-lived and temporary -- though he gave no hints as to when they might resume it.

In October 2003, the Iranians and Europeans announced a similar deal on the suspension of Iran's enrichment program.

But within six months the agreement had virtually collapsed as the Iranians continued producing and assembling centrifuges, which purify uranium by spinning at supersonic speeds.

Although the IAEA report mostly summarizes its two-year investigation and offers little fresh information, there were some new issues raised by the agency which U.S. officials will probably seize on as new proof that Iran is pursuing weapons.

But the report said that in general "the Agency's legal authority to pursue the verification of possible nuclear weapons related activity is limited."

[SharpLS-96]

Originally posted by whipimpin
Sharon presents about the worst chance for peace between Muslims and the Jewish people.

I'd like to see the Israel-Palestine conflict concluded - but, in my estimation, that will not happen so long as we've got radicals on both sides in positions of considerable power.

M.

Sharon is in deed working towards peace!!! He's doing his part but what about the PLO??!!!!!

The Israeli Parliament approved Sharon's Gaza pullout plan a few weeks ago!! In fact, Sharon's victory came at a price that has splintered his governing coalition and turned many members of his right-wing Likud party against him. It also took the support of Shimon Peres's main opposition Labour Party to push the proposal through the 120-member Knesset.

The Bill approved by the cabinet will give the government the power to issue evacuation orders to the settlers and allows for anyone who tries to either remain in Gaza or block the pullout to be jailed for up to three years.

[Vegassc400]

The Israeli Parliament approved Sharon's Gaza pullout plan a few weeks ago!! In fact, Sharon's victory came at a price that has splintered his governing coalition and turned many members of his right-wing Likud party against him. It also took the support of Shimon Peres's main opposition Labour Party to push the proposal through the 120-member Knesset.

True, Sharon is making strides toward peace but there is much left to be done. That wall they have in place is the cause of a lot of the hatred. It only keeps the law biding Palestinians from reaching their jobs and schools. The terrorists just jump it. There was a good documentary by the BBC on it.

[mmarshall]

Just look at the difference between the Israelis and the Palestinians as far as how they run THEMSELVES, never mind each other. When you have a power transfer in Israel, it is done peacefully, orderly, Constitutionally, democratically, without Israeli-sourced threats or violence. Yes, Israeli Prime Minister Rabin was a assasinated some years ago by an Israeli Jew, but that is rare in Israeli politics.

Now....contrast THAT with the sorry state of Palestinian government. Arafat has only officially been dead couple of days and already you've got practically a Palestinian Civil War, with intra-Palestinian violence erupting. In FACT, these people, if the truth be known, fight among THEMSELVES more than they do against the Israelis.....always HAVE. Just today Abbas narowly missed getting hit by bullets at a meeting. Tomorrow it will be something else. Wednesday something else.

[SharpLS-96]

Originally posted by Vegassc400
True, Sharon is making strides toward peace but there is much left to be done. That wall they have in place is the cause of a lot of the hatred. It only keeps the law biding Palestinians from reaching their jobs and schools. The terrorists just jump it. There was a good documentary by the BBC on it.

I'm glad you referenced the BBC!!!!
The facts are BBC has always had an on going pattern of anti-Israel bias.

The so called wall (as you state) has nothing to do with the hatred they feel for the Jews!!!

Also, it's not a wall....well, only according to the liberal media it is!!!
The fact is only 3% of the new security barrier that Sharon's building is actually a 30 foot high wall. The newly constructed security barrier (wall as you claim) that you're attempting to discuss they cannot...CANNOT jump and that once again is only about 3% of the security barrier!!!!

Although critics have sought to portray the security fence as a kind of "Berlin Wall," it is nothing of the sort. First, unlike the Berlin Wall, the fence does not separate one people, Germans from Germans, and deny freedom to those on one side. Israel's security fence separates two peoples, Israelis and Palestinians, and offers freedom and security for both. Second, while Israelis are fully prepared to live with Palestinians, and 20 percent of the Israeli population is already Arab, it is the Palestinians who say they do not want to live with any Jews and call for the West Bank to be judenrein. Third, the fence is not being constructed to prevent the citizens of one state from escaping; it is designed solely to keep terrorists out of Israel. Finally, only a tiny fraction of the barrier (less than 3% or about 15 miles) is actually a 30 foot high concrete wall, and that is being built in three areas where it will prevent Palestinian snipers from around the terrorist hotbeds of Kalkilya and Tul Karm from shooting at cars as they have done for the last three years along the Trans-Israel Highway, one of the country's main roads. The wall also takes up less space than the other barriers, only about seven feet, so it did not have a great impact on the area where it was built.

Most of the barrier will be a chain-link type fence similar to those used all over the United States combined with underground and long-range sensors, unmanned aerial vehicles, trenches, and guard paths. Manned checkpoints will constitute the only way to travel back and forth through the fence. The barrier is altogether about 160 feet wide in most places.

This is what most of the security barrier will look like!!! What you see the media showing you only accounts for 3% of the security barrier!!!

[bitkahuna]

Originally posted by O. L. T.
The situation that DIDN'T happen:

Negotiator: We think you are making nuclear wepons with this uranium, so stop making it.

IRAN: Okie dokie. http://www.lextech.org/images/confused.gif

I think that's EXACTLY what happened. And Iran just lied through its teeth.

[Vegassc400]

Sharp, if you're ever going to have peace, there must be concessions of BOTH sides. The "F em all" attitude worked fine in the cold war but times have changed and attitudes must too. I'm not posting this as an excuse for terrorism but if Mexico or Canada built a wall (Barrier or wall? They are the same thing designed to keep people in or out) on US land, cutting off people in San Diego from their land, you'd be p'd off too. Try reading the Palestinian point of view here. http://www.palestinemonitor.org/Spec...e/the_wall.htm

And yes, they are jumping the wall. I've seen the video. Too bad they didn't post a copy on their site. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3156602.stm

You think that the BBC is pro Palestinian? Most Arabs believe it just the opposite. http://www.arabmediawatch.com/module...ticle&sid=1335

Even Israels own Supreme Court believes the wall is not the answer and ruled the whole thing violates human rights. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,126460,00.html

But Israel's Supreme Court — in a ruling meant to apply to the entire structure — said the barrier violates international law and human rights in areas where it cuts Palestinians off from their lands, schools and other towns.

"I think the wall is a problem...it is very difficult to develop confidence between the Palestinians and Israel with a wall snaking through the West Bank." President Bush, July 25, 2003

Even Bush called it a wall and thinks it's a bad idea.

[SharpLS-96]

Originally posted by Vegassc400
Sharp, if you're ever going to have peace, there must be concessions of BOTH sides. The "F em all" attitude worked fine in the cold war but times have changed and attitudes must too. I'm not posting this as an excuse for terrorism but if Mexico or Canada built a wall (and yes, it's a wall. Barrier and wall are the same thing) on US land, cutting off people in San Diego from their land, you'd be p'd off too. Try reading the Palestinian point of view here. http://www.palestinemonitor.org/Spec...e/the_wall.htm

And yes, they are jumping the wall. I've seen the video too. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3156602.stm

You can dispute the BBCs Pro - Palestinian stance all you want but facts are facts.

You think that the BBC is pro Palestinian? Most Arabs believe it just the opposite. http://www.arabmediawatch.com/modul...rticle&sid=1335

Those are not the facts!!!!! I've seen all those sites before so there was no need to post it for me!!!!

Try doing your research via neutral sites!! Obviously you're not!!! You can post as many links as you want that are Pro-Palestinian but the fact is they are not the facts!!!!

Of the seventeen documentary programs the BBC produced on Israel over the past four years, only one presented Israel in a positive light; the other sixteen were overwhelmingly pro-Palestinian, casting Israel as a brutal aggressor nation.

The BBC documentaries are part of a deep-seated, institutional anti-Israel bias, a culture that drove the senior BBC Arabic Service correspondent in Gaza, Fayad Abu Shamala, to announce at a Hamas rally in May 2001 that journalists and media organizations, including the BBC, are "waging the campaign shoulder-to-shoulder together with the Palestinian people."

[SharpLS-96]

The fact is the wall (as you claim) is saving innocent Israeli lives!!!! You can dispute it all you want BUT
IT'S STAYING AND IT'S NOT COMING DOWN AND THAT'S REALITY!!!!!!

[Vegassc400]

Those are not the facts!!!!! I've seen all those sites before so there was no need to post it for me!!!!

What in there is not fact? Are you saying Israel is not snatching up land? Better get YOUR facts straight before saying otherwise. Post a link. Give us some proof. Otherwise you're just stating opinion. And pardon me for posting links to back up my claims. I didn't realize you knew.

IT'S STAYING AND IT'S NOT COMING DOWN AND THAT'S REALITY!!!!!!

Just because it's there doesn't make it right. Innocent civilians (Palestinian, Iraqi, Israeli or American) don't deserve to be treated like that.

Of the seventeen documentary programs the BBC produced on Israel over the past four years, only one presented Israel in a positive light; the other sixteen were overwhelmingly pro-Palestinian, casting Israel as a brutal aggressor nation.

Ever consider that maybe they are?

[SharpLS-96]

Originally posted by Vegassc400
What in there is not fact? Are you saying Israel is not snatching up land? Better get YOUR facts straight before saying otherwise. Post a link. Give us some proof. Otherwise you're just stating opinion. And pardon me for posting links to back up my claims. I didn't realize you knew.

Just because it's there doesn't make it right. Innocent civilians (Palestinian, Iraqi, Israeli or American) don't deserve to be treated like that.


Ever consider that maybe they are?

There we go......I knew I would bring out your true feelings about Israel!!! Good job!!!

[Vegassc400]

There we go......I knew I would bring out your true feelings about Israel!!! Good job!!!

Yes, I believe that Israels policies in regards to the Palestinian people is less than fair and too aggressive. Don't pat yourself on your back too hard. It's not like I'm hiding it. You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to figure it out . Did you ever think that there may be a difference between the terrorists and the innocents or do you lump them together.

I've always thought Israel should be able to defend itself. They shouldn't have to sit back and be suicide bombed every day. Again this is where that little used word called COMPROMISE come in to play. If you build a wall through someones land and tell them it's not theirs anymore they will get angry. And they will fight back. And you would too.

Again, you failed to bring any proof that this isn't a land grab scheme.