Neoxagon

I think Toyota is easily able to build higher MPG hybrids but every year, they only offer incremental improvements. They've never had a reason to offer more because their hybrid competition was always so far behind...until now:

http://www.treehugger.com/cars/test-...am-review.html

I hope Honda rolls this out to their Acuras so Lexus can get some real competition.

LexBob2

Competition is always good - Especially for the consumer.

IS350atWOT

iTrader: (1)

I don't think we'll see it on the 2015 ES 300h. But maybe in the next generation ES 300h in 2019 or whenever that would be.

gfr1

What I've never seen mentioned with the new Honda Hybrid articles is fuel tank capacity. I like cruising range, so I made an inquiry. The tank is rated at 12.2! When you consider that if you follow the refueling policies I've read with-in this group, about filling, there's going to be about 1½ gallon below Full. Then, the typical gage reading at Empty for a car from the Far East will still have about 1½ to 2 gallons remaining. Then in west TX and many other areas that I travel, convenient stations are 60 to 80 miles apart, requiring an early refuel. Not interested. It'd be okay for a local commuter, but not a cross-country cruiser. Then, for a local commuter, might better get a Volt.

LexBob2

On the Accord website, they show the gas tank capacity as 15.3 gallons.

ElliotB

First of all, this vehicle is a plug-in, which is why it is probably rated so high. While it will get great FE, It is unlikely that the Accord will deliver 50mpg in real world driving, and will likely be just a bit higher then the ES300h.

This Car & driver review gives some details (the reviewers averaged 42 after the battery was depleted, which is rated for up to 13 miles in EV mode).

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...in-test-review

According to this review, the plug-in hybrid costs about $6000 more than the gas model, a hefty premium that most will likely never make up in fuel savings. I owned a Honda Civic hybrid and found its hybrid system inferior to Toyota's in many ways. The battery in my vehicle began to fail after a couple of years and Honda refused to fix it. Many other Honda owners have shared my experience. And while the Accord is a nice vehicle, it is certainly not a Lexus.

FWIW, I have averaged over 49mpg on my current tank with my 300h (these results are obviously not typical) and expect to top out at over 800 miles before I have to refill.

LexHybrid1

the non-PHEV is still 50/45/47mpg. it has 15.8gal tank.

one of the reasons i was comfortable with the es300h was the proven drivetrain. it may not get the highest mpg out there, and it may be a little dated by today's newer offerings, but the fact that it has had the time to mature over the years is worth a lot to me. contrast that to a new "earth dreams" platform which may (it may not) have several gremlins during the first few years.

i would wager that the acura's will remain sport-biased, instead of just offering a luxury version of the accord hybrid in the TLX. the accord is pretty close to an upscale model these days.

gfr1

Here's a reference "copied & pasted" from Edmunds -- "2014 Honda Accord Plug-In Hybrid - Features & Specs -- ENGINE TYPE Hybrid FUEL TYPE Regular unleaded FUEL TANK CAPACITY 12.2 gal. RANGE IN MILES (CTY/HWY) 573.4/561.2 mi. EPA MILEAGE EST. (CTY/HWY) 47/46 mpg".

http://www.edmunds.com/honda/accord-...res-specs.html

That 561.2 miles reflects all 12.2 gallons. If you consider the fuel fill and Empty range reserve, mentioned above, that gives a typical range of around 412, if you make the rated mpg, minus whatever range you might need for the next gas station. I'd go with the ES300h, by far.

azn103

grf1... If I'm not mistaken you're a Griefer (gfr). With that said, the post title is a bit ambiguous saying "Accord Hybrid". Honda has the PHEV which gets 47 MPG and the Regular hybrid with gets states the EPA the 50 MPG. So if you look at the CORRECT one (http://www.edmunds.com/honda/accord-...yle=&sub=sedan) and stopped griefing, people would find your logic a bit more tolerable.

15.8 * ((50+45)/2) = 750.5 Possible Miles of Driving

The ES is a bit more refined but if the "Earth Dreams" were to come into Acura's vehicle fleet, Toyota/Lexus need to step up their game with the MPG on their Synergy Drive.

I have an ES300h myself but Honda doesn't utilize a CVT so with that, Honda might be a much more reliable car since there's no planetary gear & CVT.

LexHybrid1

yes - no one should be talking about the PHEV version - the linked article is about the regular accord hybrid.

i would like to draw everyone's attention to those wheels. BARF.

ElliotB

Here is a link to Honda's site lists the fuel capacity at several locations at 15.8 gallons of their 3 hybrid models:

http://automobiles.honda.com/tools/c...omptrim3=37313

Interestingly, all 3 hybrid versions are rated the same fuel economy wise. FWIW, Honda, like Ford, seems provide EPA numbers that are a lot more exaggerated than Toyota.

Keep in mind that the Accord compares more to a Camry, Fusion or Sonata than a Lexus (according to Honda's site). Ultimately, for someone looking for the highest fuel economy, there are better choices than the ES300h. But you are giving up some luxury to get those few extra MPGs. I think I will stick with Lexus!

mrBillFL

IIRC, only plugin vehicles get a HOV sticker in CA.

and I think time saved in traffic should be considered in the cost /benefit calculation.

CodemanGS

BESIDES the 'B-U-T-T' Ugly wheels, this car is aimed ( well below ) at the Toyota Prius market and that potential hybrid Buyer. Take a GOOD look at the 'Specs'.... I just SOLD my 2010 Prius IV, to get my 2014 300h. I am VERY Happy w/ what Lexus has done for the ES 300h and this Hybrid Owner.

Neoxagon

I think we all can agree that the Accord Hybrid isn't a direct competitor against the ES300h, but if Honda were to move this into the Acura line, then things could get interesting. And if this causes a dip in the ES300h sales, things could get very interesting! It might even cause an earlier next gen release schedule.

I would still stick with Toyota but I just want more for my money. Honda moving this to the Acura line would get that accomplished.