Will the 2015 Mustang lure potential 3IS buyers??
12-05-13, 04:12 PM
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Will the 2015 Mustang lure potential 3IS buyers??
http://www.torquenews.com/1083/why-n...c-350-shoppers
Why the new 2015 Ford Mustang will lure BMW 4-Series and Lexus RC 350 Shoppers
The all-new 2015 Mustang is everything Ford fans could have hoped for. The new slightly smaller, more refined Mustang may just give Ford the car it needs to reach up to the premium sports coupe market. But does Ford have a dealer network that can handle that assignment?
Today Ford revealed the gorgeous new 2014 Mustang. Our editor, Patrick Rall was there in person and he contributed facts and opinions to this story. I asked him to tell us if he thought the new Mustang was more refined inside and out and if he thought it might lure some Lexus RS 350 sport coupe buyers or BMW shoppers. Rall says the new Mustang does appear more refined and he even invoked the BMW 6 series. Whoa. He skipped right over the 4-series. Let’s break this topic down and compare and contrast the new Lexus RC 350, BMW 4-Series and the 2015 Ford Mustang.
Although I am pretty good with numbers I had to look up the Mustang’s sales figures. I was surprised. In November Ford sold about 5,300. That is its running average. For a 2-door sports coupe that is impressive. Only the Chevy Camaro and BMW 3-Series have enjoyed that kind of volume lately. That is, until the new Lexus IS 350 and IS 250 appeared and put up over 4,000 units sold for three months running. Yes, we know that the Lexus IS 350 model has 4-doors, but wait. Lexus has introduced a new 2-door, rear-drive, powerful, sports coupe called the RC 350. The new RC will have dimensions almost exactly matching the brand new 2014 BMW 4-series, it’s actually a little wider and longer. Although we don’t have confirmation of the exact length and width of the 2015 Mustang, it appears that the BMW 4-Series, Lexus RC 350, and the Mustang are all nearly identical. The Camaro of course is still super-sized.
Dimensions are not the only similar trait the 2015 Ford Mustang, BMW 4-series, and the Lexus RC 350 will have when all the cars are available for sale. The Mustang has a powerful V6 Engine that can develop over 300 HP as does the Lexus (314) and BMW (300). All three cars are also rear-drive and can come with paddle shifting automatic transmissions. All three can also drop in monster V8s if they so choose. The obvious difference between the Lexus and BMW, versus the new Ford, is luxury appointments, driving refinement, and the overall ownership experience. However, I drove the new 2014 IS 350, the current BMW 335i, and also multiple versions of the Mustang over the past 6 months, on and off track. The truth is, all these cars are not exactly what their reputations and stereotypes would lead one to believe. The Mustangs I drove could either be cheap feeling, or it could feel amazing. It totally depended on which drivetrain and which interior the car had. Trust me, Ford can definitely get within reach of the interior and driving refinement of BMW and Lexus. It could with the last generation, 2013 Mustang if it chose to. This new car might come that way in many versions.
I no longer buy the old brand loyalty and demographic roles the auto enthusiast world carved out for these cars a decade ago. The new Lexus IS 350 F Sport is amazing on and off track. It surprises. The BMW 335i is a fantastic car, but it is coasting on reputation now with regards to being “the ultimate driving machine” and its prices have ballooned past reasonable. I’m biased towards Lexus, that is not something I hide. However, go read any comparison involving the BMW in Car and Driver, Road and Track, or whatever publication you trust. Those publications are all saying the same thing about the BMW. And those writers own BMW 3 series cars.
The new Mustang could start to draw interest from shoppers considering a BMW and possibly also Lexus. The new Mustang is certainly capable. The only thing missing is a premium dealership and ownership experience. I wish I could tell you Ford has a plan for that, but Lincoln Motor Company is not the plan. It is about to go the way of Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and Mercury. What an odd situation. Ford finally evolves its cars to a world class standard of excellence and it has no place to sell such a car to those who have come to expect much more than just a great car.
Why the new 2015 Ford Mustang will lure BMW 4-Series and Lexus RC 350 Shoppers
The all-new 2015 Mustang is everything Ford fans could have hoped for. The new slightly smaller, more refined Mustang may just give Ford the car it needs to reach up to the premium sports coupe market. But does Ford have a dealer network that can handle that assignment?
Today Ford revealed the gorgeous new 2014 Mustang. Our editor, Patrick Rall was there in person and he contributed facts and opinions to this story. I asked him to tell us if he thought the new Mustang was more refined inside and out and if he thought it might lure some Lexus RS 350 sport coupe buyers or BMW shoppers. Rall says the new Mustang does appear more refined and he even invoked the BMW 6 series. Whoa. He skipped right over the 4-series. Let’s break this topic down and compare and contrast the new Lexus RC 350, BMW 4-Series and the 2015 Ford Mustang.
Although I am pretty good with numbers I had to look up the Mustang’s sales figures. I was surprised. In November Ford sold about 5,300. That is its running average. For a 2-door sports coupe that is impressive. Only the Chevy Camaro and BMW 3-Series have enjoyed that kind of volume lately. That is, until the new Lexus IS 350 and IS 250 appeared and put up over 4,000 units sold for three months running. Yes, we know that the Lexus IS 350 model has 4-doors, but wait. Lexus has introduced a new 2-door, rear-drive, powerful, sports coupe called the RC 350. The new RC will have dimensions almost exactly matching the brand new 2014 BMW 4-series, it’s actually a little wider and longer. Although we don’t have confirmation of the exact length and width of the 2015 Mustang, it appears that the BMW 4-Series, Lexus RC 350, and the Mustang are all nearly identical. The Camaro of course is still super-sized.
Dimensions are not the only similar trait the 2015 Ford Mustang, BMW 4-series, and the Lexus RC 350 will have when all the cars are available for sale. The Mustang has a powerful V6 Engine that can develop over 300 HP as does the Lexus (314) and BMW (300). All three cars are also rear-drive and can come with paddle shifting automatic transmissions. All three can also drop in monster V8s if they so choose. The obvious difference between the Lexus and BMW, versus the new Ford, is luxury appointments, driving refinement, and the overall ownership experience. However, I drove the new 2014 IS 350, the current BMW 335i, and also multiple versions of the Mustang over the past 6 months, on and off track. The truth is, all these cars are not exactly what their reputations and stereotypes would lead one to believe. The Mustangs I drove could either be cheap feeling, or it could feel amazing. It totally depended on which drivetrain and which interior the car had. Trust me, Ford can definitely get within reach of the interior and driving refinement of BMW and Lexus. It could with the last generation, 2013 Mustang if it chose to. This new car might come that way in many versions.
I no longer buy the old brand loyalty and demographic roles the auto enthusiast world carved out for these cars a decade ago. The new Lexus IS 350 F Sport is amazing on and off track. It surprises. The BMW 335i is a fantastic car, but it is coasting on reputation now with regards to being “the ultimate driving machine” and its prices have ballooned past reasonable. I’m biased towards Lexus, that is not something I hide. However, go read any comparison involving the BMW in Car and Driver, Road and Track, or whatever publication you trust. Those publications are all saying the same thing about the BMW. And those writers own BMW 3 series cars.
The new Mustang could start to draw interest from shoppers considering a BMW and possibly also Lexus. The new Mustang is certainly capable. The only thing missing is a premium dealership and ownership experience. I wish I could tell you Ford has a plan for that, but Lincoln Motor Company is not the plan. It is about to go the way of Oldsmobile, Pontiac, and Mercury. What an odd situation. Ford finally evolves its cars to a world class standard of excellence and it has no place to sell such a car to those who have come to expect much more than just a great car.
12-05-13, 04:29 PM
#2
Lexus Test Driver
i hate to tell you this, but i wouldn't buy a ford anything much less a mustang even if it was free!
in fact if i am ever lucky enough to be handed the keys free, my money would be better spent selling the car to some ford fanatic and use the cash to buy something else!
in fact if i am ever lucky enough to be handed the keys free, my money would be better spent selling the car to some ford fanatic and use the cash to buy something else!
12-05-13, 04:41 PM
#3
Agreed, only American vehicles I'd touch would be Tahoe/Suburban/Silverado (and derivatives) and Corvette, even though I have had a Suburban and a Denali in the past and their transmissions went like clockwork once they hit 80k miles! Like clockwork!
12-05-13, 05:13 PM
#5
i hate to tell you this, but i wouldn't buy a ford anything much less a mustang even if it was free!
in fact if i am ever lucky enough to be handed the keys free, my money would be better spent selling the car to some ford fanatic and use the cash to buy something else!
in fact if i am ever lucky enough to be handed the keys free, my money would be better spent selling the car to some ford fanatic and use the cash to buy something else!
12-05-13, 05:45 PM
#6
Lexus Test Driver
I couldn't disagree more. Ford is far and away the best American car company in my opinion. I had a ford expedition lemon years ago but things have changed a lot since then. That coyote engine in the GT kicks ***. Having said that we are talking apples and oranges trying to compare any American car company to Lexus.
my father in law is a lot like you, he keeps buying lincoln town cars and mercury's also has a ford truck its a 2003 F450.
in the 18 years i have known him he got stranded on his way across kansas from colorado when his 4 year old town car blew a dime sized hole on the PLASTIC intake manifold where the coolant runs. overheated and i had to go to the airport and drive a rental car to him 2 hours away from home in the middle of the night while he left his car with a local garage to repair while they finished their way to kansas after driving me back home in the rental.
the same car had problems with the sunroof ever since he got it.
the next town car he bought NEW had several electrical problems with the power seats, and the engine computer went out. 3 different times! initially all under warranty but on a new car should have never happened on a 3 year old car! after the 3rd time he repaired it at his own expense and sold it.
the truck was purchased to tow a travel trailer 5th wheel also brand new. the truck has a dual alternator system and both have been replaced 2x and each time the alternators go out they short the batteries out and ruin those at the same time. lucky it never set the truck on fire!
the truck today has 25,000 miles on it! the warranty ran out long ago from age because the truck was set up to tow the trailer and thats all it was ever used for. un freaking real! a 10 year old truck with 25 k miles on it having all these problems is just uncalled for!
but he is still ford loyal. i still have no idea why, he tells me it's the air suspension on the back that makes them ride so nice, I've told him many manufacturers have the same technology or better if he would just give them a try.
but apparently you can't teach this old dog a new trick.
he is back in a new mercury for the past 2 years, i hope he has better luck.
i wouldn't buy a BMW or Audi for the same reasons and they are "imports"
if americans make such a great car then why are their resale value so bad when they hit 100k miles verses an equally priced when new import?
simple because the american car is headed to the junkyard with that many miles, nobody wants to take a chance with one and by then they are pretty tore up and falling apart.
believe what you want, you are correct comparing any domestic to a lexus is apples and oranges.
12-05-13, 05:57 PM
#7
This thread could get heated, mods beware. Thread/article has some baiting undertones.
That said, of course the anti-american automaker sentiments start off. The topic is:
NOT Will you trade in your 3IS for the 2015 Mustang
So well done with the negativity rather than constructive conversation
---
Of course it will as will any other RWD coupe or sedan within the $25-55K range.
Does the GT-R lure potential IS-F buyers? Of course. But different strokes for different folks.
To the naysayers, get off that high beaten dead horse, American companies make some compelling vehicles now. If you don't know this then you have not driven them and continue to read and regurgitate what you see on the interwebz. Cadillac and Ford are leading the way, and Chrysler is producing singnificantly improved machines. Think Euro's are any better? The only reason Euro's get a pass over American counterparts is because they are more plush. They have the same reliability issues.
The Mustang GT will essentially be a RC-F for half the price. You pay for the refinement and the badge with the Lexus, but to knock the Mustangs performance or merits is downright ignorant.
Let's not forget the 3IS and 335i and Mustang are all aimed at younger demographics so yes there will be crossshopping. Is that a problem? No, it means there is choice to the consumer.
Disagree, Cadillac is perfectly positioned against Lexus. Now a non luxury American automaker vs Lexus is more apples and oranges 
That said, of course the anti-american automaker sentiments start off. The topic is:
Will the 2015 Mustang lure potential 3IS buyers??
So well done with the negativity rather than constructive conversation
---
Will the 2015 Mustang lure potential 3IS buyers??
Does the GT-R lure potential IS-F buyers? Of course. But different strokes for different folks.
To the naysayers, get off that high beaten dead horse, American companies make some compelling vehicles now. If you don't know this then you have not driven them and continue to read and regurgitate what you see on the interwebz. Cadillac and Ford are leading the way, and Chrysler is producing singnificantly improved machines. Think Euro's are any better? The only reason Euro's get a pass over American counterparts is because they are more plush. They have the same reliability issues.
The Mustang GT will essentially be a RC-F for half the price. You pay for the refinement and the badge with the Lexus, but to knock the Mustangs performance or merits is downright ignorant.
Let's not forget the 3IS and 335i and Mustang are all aimed at younger demographics so yes there will be crossshopping. Is that a problem? No, it means there is choice to the consumer.
I couldn't disagree more. Ford is far and away the best American car company in my opinion. I had a ford expedition lemon years ago but things have changed a lot since then. That coyote engine in the GT kicks ***. Having said that we are talking apples and oranges trying to compare any American car company to Lexus.
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12-05-13, 06:12 PM
#8
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Honestly, Ive been working on muscle and american cars, expanded to foreign as well and am very open on opinions, but SCREW (wont let me use the other word) THE MUSTANG. I hate Ford, and there products are for the **** rich person who thinks they are the coolest and hottest thing on the block (generally speaking) I hope this mustang flops, but then again, knowing Ford owners, they will sell their newly bought car for the "next best thing"
12-05-13, 06:33 PM
#9
This thread could get heated, mods beware. Thread/article has some baiting undertones.
That said, of course the anti-american automaker sentiments start off. The topic is:
NOT Will you trade in your 3IS for the 2015 Mustang
So well done with the negativity rather than constructive conversation
---
Of course it will as will any other RWD coupe or sedan within the $25-55K range.
Does the GT-R lure potential IS-F buyers? Of course. But different strokes for different folks.
To the naysayers, get off that high beaten dead horse, American companies make some compelling vehicles now. If you don't know this then you have not driven them and continue to read and regurgitate what you see on the interwebz. Cadillac and Ford are leading the way, and Chrysler is producing singnificantly improved machines. Think Euro's are any better? The only reason Euro's get a pass over American counterparts is because they are more plush. They have the same reliability issues.
The Mustang GT will essentially be a RC-F for half the price. You pay for the refinement and the badge with the Lexus, but to knock the Mustangs performance or merits is downright ignorant.
Let's not forget the 3IS and 335i and Mustang are all aimed at younger demographics so yes there will be crossshopping. Is that a problem? No, it means there is choice to the consumer.
Disagree, Cadillac is perfectly positioned against Lexus. Now a non luxury American automaker vs Lexus is more apples and oranges
That said, of course the anti-american automaker sentiments start off. The topic is:
NOT Will you trade in your 3IS for the 2015 Mustang
So well done with the negativity rather than constructive conversation
---
Of course it will as will any other RWD coupe or sedan within the $25-55K range.
Does the GT-R lure potential IS-F buyers? Of course. But different strokes for different folks.
To the naysayers, get off that high beaten dead horse, American companies make some compelling vehicles now. If you don't know this then you have not driven them and continue to read and regurgitate what you see on the interwebz. Cadillac and Ford are leading the way, and Chrysler is producing singnificantly improved machines. Think Euro's are any better? The only reason Euro's get a pass over American counterparts is because they are more plush. They have the same reliability issues.
The Mustang GT will essentially be a RC-F for half the price. You pay for the refinement and the badge with the Lexus, but to knock the Mustangs performance or merits is downright ignorant.
Let's not forget the 3IS and 335i and Mustang are all aimed at younger demographics so yes there will be crossshopping. Is that a problem? No, it means there is choice to the consumer.
Disagree, Cadillac is perfectly positioned against Lexus. Now a non luxury American automaker vs Lexus is more apples and oranges
12-05-13, 06:48 PM
#10
that may be true but fords tract record has produced way too many lemons for me to even consider giving them any of my business.
my father in law is a lot like you, he keeps buying lincoln town cars and mercury's also has a ford truck its a 2003 F450.
in the 18 years i have known him he got stranded on his way across kansas from colorado when his 4 year old town car blew a dime sized hole on the PLASTIC intake manifold where the coolant runs. overheated and i had to go to the airport and drive a rental car to him 2 hours away from home in the middle of the night while he left his car with a local garage to repair while they finished their way to kansas after driving me back home in the rental.
the same car had problems with the sunroof ever since he got it.
the next town car he bought NEW had several electrical problems with the power seats, and the engine computer went out. 3 different times! initially all under warranty but on a new car should have never happened on a 3 year old car! after the 3rd time he repaired it at his own expense and sold it.
the truck was purchased to tow a travel trailer 5th wheel also brand new. the truck has a dual alternator system and both have been replaced 2x and each time the alternators go out they short the batteries out and ruin those at the same time. lucky it never set the truck on fire!
the truck today has 25,000 miles on it! the warranty ran out long ago from age because the truck was set up to tow the trailer and thats all it was ever used for. un freaking real! a 10 year old truck with 25 k miles on it having all these problems is just uncalled for!
but he is still ford loyal. i still have no idea why, he tells me it's the air suspension on the back that makes them ride so nice, I've told him many manufacturers have the same technology or better if he would just give them a try.
but apparently you can't teach this old dog a new trick.
he is back in a new mercury for the past 2 years, i hope he has better luck.
i wouldn't buy a BMW or Audi for the same reasons and they are "imports"
if americans make such a great car then why are their resale value so bad when they hit 100k miles verses an equally priced when new import?
simple because the american car is headed to the junkyard with that many miles, nobody wants to take a chance with one and by then they are pretty tore up and falling apart.
believe what you want, you are correct comparing any domestic to a lexus is apples and oranges.
my father in law is a lot like you, he keeps buying lincoln town cars and mercury's also has a ford truck its a 2003 F450.
in the 18 years i have known him he got stranded on his way across kansas from colorado when his 4 year old town car blew a dime sized hole on the PLASTIC intake manifold where the coolant runs. overheated and i had to go to the airport and drive a rental car to him 2 hours away from home in the middle of the night while he left his car with a local garage to repair while they finished their way to kansas after driving me back home in the rental.
the same car had problems with the sunroof ever since he got it.
the next town car he bought NEW had several electrical problems with the power seats, and the engine computer went out. 3 different times! initially all under warranty but on a new car should have never happened on a 3 year old car! after the 3rd time he repaired it at his own expense and sold it.
the truck was purchased to tow a travel trailer 5th wheel also brand new. the truck has a dual alternator system and both have been replaced 2x and each time the alternators go out they short the batteries out and ruin those at the same time. lucky it never set the truck on fire!
the truck today has 25,000 miles on it! the warranty ran out long ago from age because the truck was set up to tow the trailer and thats all it was ever used for. un freaking real! a 10 year old truck with 25 k miles on it having all these problems is just uncalled for!
but he is still ford loyal. i still have no idea why, he tells me it's the air suspension on the back that makes them ride so nice, I've told him many manufacturers have the same technology or better if he would just give them a try.
but apparently you can't teach this old dog a new trick.
he is back in a new mercury for the past 2 years, i hope he has better luck.
i wouldn't buy a BMW or Audi for the same reasons and they are "imports"
if americans make such a great car then why are their resale value so bad when they hit 100k miles verses an equally priced when new import?
simple because the american car is headed to the junkyard with that many miles, nobody wants to take a chance with one and by then they are pretty tore up and falling apart.
believe what you want, you are correct comparing any domestic to a lexus is apples and oranges.
12-05-13, 06:59 PM
#11
Lexus Test Driver
my IS replaces a 2012 corvette Z06 (2 of them over the last 4.5 years) prior to the corvette we had a 2008 GS 350 AWD and a 2007 IS 350 RWD
so i guess you might say we have come full circle back to a pair of lexus vehicles (we traded to the2008 GS for a 2012 Acura TL and came back to lexus on that car as well)
12-05-13, 08:04 PM
#12
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Lots of Ford bashing going on here, so let me come from a different perspective. First off, IS buyers are not coupe buyers. Folks buying the IS cars want a 4-door sedan for a reason (most likely have kids - but not limited to). The same reason an IS buyer is probably not an RC buyer.
If we just focus on RC vs the new mustang (which BTW does appear to be quite an improvement over the previous models), you have to compare to the V6 version. The V8 version of the Mustang (420HP) would crush an RC in performance (1/4, 0-60 and probably any track) - and it will sound way better. Even with this, people generally gravitate towards lexus for the quality not raw performance. I think Ford would have to really lay down a track record of quality before lexus buyers would budge (I'm talking a couple of revisions of car).
I'll give some cred to this new mustang:
- Independent rear suspension (finally they've cracked the code!)
- More luxury tech (e.g. safety features)
- Selectable drive modes.
- Better styling (IMO)
Now back to the bashing...
If we just focus on RC vs the new mustang (which BTW does appear to be quite an improvement over the previous models), you have to compare to the V6 version. The V8 version of the Mustang (420HP) would crush an RC in performance (1/4, 0-60 and probably any track) - and it will sound way better. Even with this, people generally gravitate towards lexus for the quality not raw performance. I think Ford would have to really lay down a track record of quality before lexus buyers would budge (I'm talking a couple of revisions of car).
I'll give some cred to this new mustang:
- Independent rear suspension (finally they've cracked the code!)
- More luxury tech (e.g. safety features)
- Selectable drive modes.
- Better styling (IMO)
Now back to the bashing...
12-05-13, 08:11 PM
#13
Lots of Ford bashing going on here, so let me come from a different perspective. First off, IS buyers are not coupe buyers. Folks buying the IS cars want a 4-door sedan for a reason (most likely have kids - but not limited to). The same reason an IS buyer is probably not an RC buyer.
If we just focus on RC vs the new mustang (which BTW does appear to be quite an improvement over the previous models), you have to compare to the V6 version. The V8 version of the Mustang (420HP) would crush an RC in performance (1/4, 0-60 and probably any track) - and it will sound way better. Even with this, people generally gravitate towards lexus for the quality not raw performance. I think Ford would have to really lay down a track record of quality before lexus buyers would budge (I'm talking a couple of revisions of car).
I'll give some cred to this new mustang:
- Independent rear suspension (finally they've cracked the code!)
- More luxury tech (e.g. safety features)
- Selectable drive modes.
- Better styling (IMO)
Now back to the bashing...
If we just focus on RC vs the new mustang (which BTW does appear to be quite an improvement over the previous models), you have to compare to the V6 version. The V8 version of the Mustang (420HP) would crush an RC in performance (1/4, 0-60 and probably any track) - and it will sound way better. Even with this, people generally gravitate towards lexus for the quality not raw performance. I think Ford would have to really lay down a track record of quality before lexus buyers would budge (I'm talking a couple of revisions of car).
I'll give some cred to this new mustang:
- Independent rear suspension (finally they've cracked the code!)
- More luxury tech (e.g. safety features)
- Selectable drive modes.
- Better styling (IMO)
Now back to the bashing...
12-05-13, 08:40 PM
#15
There are those who really love american vehicles, those who love just 1 american brand, and those that don't like any american vehicles. My dad is a hardcore Chevy guy. I fall in the latter of the 3 choices. Not my thing, but again, that's the beauty of all of this... we have choices. I'm sure like some will be lured to the new mustang, others will be lured to lexus. When companies compete for our business, we end up winning anyways.
