Review Update: 2007 ES350 (I've changed my opinion a little on later models)
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I thought it was also so smooth that I was going much faster than I expected when I looked at the speedometer. The amenities were generous and I really enjoyed being in the car (for a week as a loaner). However, the steering was horrendous. Almost as bad as our RX. Maybe I'm a little biased as my daily driver is a G35 coupe but the steering alone would make me look elsewhere. BTW, I think Acura does a much better job of steering feel in their FWD cars.
. That would defeat the whole point of the car being super-smooth.
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From: Tennessee
There's just something about the ES I don't care for. It lacks a substantial feeling. Driving it around town it just seems to have a hallow and cheap feel to the way it drives. I find that for similar or less money the LaCrosse and Genesis offer a much more substantial feel to the drive and interiors that feel more inviting and less austere to me. The difference was always most apparent to me not when I went from my GS to an ES loaner but moreso when I went back to the GS from the ES.
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There's just something about the ES I don't care for. It lacks a substantial feeling. Driving it around town it just seems to have a hallow and cheap feel to the way it drives. I find that for similar or less money the LaCrosse and Genesis offer a much more substantial feel to the drive and interiors that feel more inviting and less austere to me. The difference was always most apparent to me not when I went from my GS to an ES loaner but moreso when I went back to the GS from the ES.
As far as the ES lacking "feeling", if you are refering to a BMW or sport-sedan type of "feeling", that's no surprise....the ES is not intended to feel like that. It is designed for library-quietness and isolation from the road surface (though the drop in the last redesign, in 2007, from 60 to 55-series tires and the added suspension stiffness certainly didn't help things in that department). The 2008 model, as I noted, seemed to have brought back some of the former ES magic-carpet ride.
The steering and overall drive has not changed in this car since its debut back in 92.. I had a 97 ES.. I must of loved the disconnected feel.. What was I thinking...? People continue to love this bread & butter car. Kudos to Lexus for continuing to deliver..
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My disappointment at the 2007 redesign, BTW, was not alone. Many ES owners (apparantly) felt the same way.
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I have to disagree somewhat. The car's overall mission had not changed, but the tire/suspension change for the all-new 2007 model did noticeably affect the ride smoothness. It did NOT, however, affect the tomb-quiet soundproofing or the butter-smooth drivetrain. The 2008 model, though, for reasons I stated in the update, seemed to have several improvements.
My disappointment at the 2007 redesign, BTW, was not alone. Many ES owners (apparantly) felt the same way.
My disappointment at the 2007 redesign, BTW, was not alone. Many ES owners (apparantly) felt the same way.
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From: Tennessee
I agree to the extent that, in general, I'd still rather have an older ES330 to a ES350. But the point I was making, in the update here, was that Lexus took what, IMO, was a disappointing all-new design three years ago and, without another major re-design, made it noticeably less disappointing. I think they deserve some credit for that. As for the Genesis, no argumants there.....the Genesis is an excellent car for the money. The LaCrosse has, of course, a flashy interior, with a lot of glittering chrome, but, while some of its interior materials are fairly nice, many others are simply the same old GM plastic with a coat of glitz/flash on top. Some CL members have disagreed with my assessment of the new LaCrosse interior, but, after a thorough review, that is the way I saw....and felt....it.
As far as the ES lacking "feeling", if you are refering to a BMW or sport-sedan type of "feeling", that's no surprise....the ES is not intended to feel like that. It is designed for library-quietness and isolation from the road surface (though the drop in the last redesign, in 2007, from 60 to 55-series tires and the added suspension stiffness certainly didn't help things in that department). The 2008 model, as I noted, seemed to have brought back some of the former ES magic-carpet ride.
As far as the ES lacking "feeling", if you are refering to a BMW or sport-sedan type of "feeling", that's no surprise....the ES is not intended to feel like that. It is designed for library-quietness and isolation from the road surface (though the drop in the last redesign, in 2007, from 60 to 55-series tires and the added suspension stiffness certainly didn't help things in that department). The 2008 model, as I noted, seemed to have brought back some of the former ES magic-carpet ride.
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I do have to say the new RX for the first time broke that mold for me. I didn't feel or it didn't feel like something based off the Camry. It felt like a solid car.
Haven't checked out the LaCrosse yet and I need to drive a GEnesis soon.
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Quite a few people have mentioned that about the new RX. I think the increased use of ultra-high-tensile-strength steel as well as the RX's unique double wishbone suspension has something to do with. It literally almost isn't based on the Camry anymore. I expect the 6ES to have a similar "solid" feel. The HS from reading some reviews seems to have quite a solid feel to it.
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If you get a chance to check out a new LaCrosse, since I've already done the FWD CXL, see if you can find an AWD CXL model....though AWD models will probably not be widespread in your warm-climate area. A FWD Ecotec 4-cylinder version is also coming out in December. Or, you might want to do one with the top-level 3.6L V6....my CXL had the 3.0L.
Last edited by mmarshall; Oct 29, 2009 at 01:43 PM.
Lead Lap
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From: California
I had an '08 ES350 for a year and a half. It removes all sources of drama from driving and is the supreme cruiser for its price class. That's its mission and that's why it sells so well. Looking back, I think I was a bit too young to fully enjoy the purpose of this car.
That said, it's not as quiet as a 2004 ES300 I had driven several years back. I feel like it's mainly the larger-displacement 2GR-FE engine that is noisier.
I agree with mmarshall that the previous ES had much more expensive-looking wood trim, although the old interior style was beyond my age group to be fully appreciated.
I drive an older CLK now. It crashes and jars over even modestly bad pavement, and the 45- and 40-series tires don't help. The engine and exhaust constantly boom and resonate through the cabin, although the transmission is smooth. I can actually feel the whole car dancing around when stopped and not in gear. Almost the polar opposite of the ES!
That said, it's not as quiet as a 2004 ES300 I had driven several years back. I feel like it's mainly the larger-displacement 2GR-FE engine that is noisier.
I agree with mmarshall that the previous ES had much more expensive-looking wood trim, although the old interior style was beyond my age group to be fully appreciated.
I drive an older CLK now. It crashes and jars over even modestly bad pavement, and the 45- and 40-series tires don't help. The engine and exhaust constantly boom and resonate through the cabin, although the transmission is smooth. I can actually feel the whole car dancing around when stopped and not in gear. Almost the polar opposite of the ES!
Last edited by superchan7; Oct 29, 2009 at 02:32 PM.
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From: MD
Most of the cars I review are brand-new, so I don't completely max things out or go over 4000-4500 on the tach. But I do accelerate, brake, and handle hard enough to see what the car is basically capable of. Any car, to an extent, is going to have some rearward-weight transfer under hard acceleration, simply due to the laws of energy and physics, and may account for some of the"lightness" on the front wheels that you feel up front. Conversely, upon braking, weight is usually transfered forward...which is one of the reasons why rear-engine Porsches have such good braking distances. The forward weight transfer of the heavy rear end with braking places the center of the braking action in the middle of the car, on all four wheels equally.
In fact, FWD cars like the ES, because of the front-end weight bias, usually keep more of their weight forward on acceleration, so I'm a little surprised at the characteristics you note. It could be that you are just not used to the ES350's non-aggressive tires and comfort-biased chassis, though, admittedly, they are somewhat less so than on the previous ES330. The LS you are used to is RWD, with a slightly different weight-transfer ratio.
In fact, FWD cars like the ES, because of the front-end weight bias, usually keep more of their weight forward on acceleration, so I'm a little surprised at the characteristics you note. It could be that you are just not used to the ES350's non-aggressive tires and comfort-biased chassis, though, admittedly, they are somewhat less so than on the previous ES330. The LS you are used to is RWD, with a slightly different weight-transfer ratio.
Last edited by trukn1; Oct 31, 2009 at 08:40 AM.
Pole Position
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From: Australia
It's interesting that you liked the old ES. I have an '05 build. I must say, I have no warm feelings for it. In fact I have no feelings either way. I liked the wood at first. But, now it just looks like too much.
The 05 ES is pretty sluggish and always hunting around for the right gear. I shake my head sometimes and wonder what they were thinking.
My old 98 GS300 and my 99 ES300 used to bring a smile to my face, this doesn't and never has. Compared to my 09 Volvo XC, it just feels really old.
But I just use it as my workhorse, so it doesn't really matter.
The 05 ES is pretty sluggish and always hunting around for the right gear. I shake my head sometimes and wonder what they were thinking.
My old 98 GS300 and my 99 ES300 used to bring a smile to my face, this doesn't and never has. Compared to my 09 Volvo XC, it just feels really old.
But I just use it as my workhorse, so it doesn't really matter.
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From: Louisiana
Just bought a 2010 ES and I have to say that I am very impressed, something I would never have expected. This is my 5th Lexus, starting with an SC300 manual, a 2GS400, an LS400 and a LS430. When I drove ES330's for loaners, I couldn't wait to get back into my car. I found the ES to lack a quality feel, rattled and lacked substance.
When I decided to trade my '07 M35, I started looking around the Lexus lot and spotted the revised '10 ES. I liked the changes and decided to test drive one. While it didn't quite have the substantial feel of my LS, it seemed quieter and smoother. In fact, it appears that Lexus engineered everything to be "easy". The throttle response is effortless, the glove box open/closes easily, as does the trunk, etc. The interior now has a rick look and the leather on the seats felt softer than the leather in the LS460 on the showroom floor.
I now have my ES for almost a week and the more I drive it, the more I appreciate it. It also gets great fuel economy and the technology is first class, especially the eDestination capability. Can you tell I love this car?
When I decided to trade my '07 M35, I started looking around the Lexus lot and spotted the revised '10 ES. I liked the changes and decided to test drive one. While it didn't quite have the substantial feel of my LS, it seemed quieter and smoother. In fact, it appears that Lexus engineered everything to be "easy". The throttle response is effortless, the glove box open/closes easily, as does the trunk, etc. The interior now has a rick look and the leather on the seats felt softer than the leather in the LS460 on the showroom floor.
I now have my ES for almost a week and the more I drive it, the more I appreciate it. It also gets great fuel economy and the technology is first class, especially the eDestination capability. Can you tell I love this car?
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From: Tennessee
Just bought a 2010 ES and I have to say that I am very impressed, something I would never have expected. This is my 5th Lexus, starting with an SC300 manual, a 2GS400, an LS400 and a LS430. When I drove ES330's for loaners, I couldn't wait to get back into my car. I found the ES to lack a quality feel, rattled and lacked substance.
When I decided to trade my '07 M35, I started looking around the Lexus lot and spotted the revised '10 ES. I liked the changes and decided to test drive one. While it didn't quite have the substantial feel of my LS, it seemed quieter and smoother. In fact, it appears that Lexus engineered everything to be "easy". The throttle response is effortless, the glove box open/closes easily, as does the trunk, etc. The interior now has a rick look and the leather on the seats felt softer than the leather in the LS460 on the showroom floor.
I now have my ES for almost a week and the more I drive it, the more I appreciate it. It also gets great fuel economy and the technology is first class, especially the eDestination capability. Can you tell I love this car?
When I decided to trade my '07 M35, I started looking around the Lexus lot and spotted the revised '10 ES. I liked the changes and decided to test drive one. While it didn't quite have the substantial feel of my LS, it seemed quieter and smoother. In fact, it appears that Lexus engineered everything to be "easy". The throttle response is effortless, the glove box open/closes easily, as does the trunk, etc. The interior now has a rick look and the leather on the seats felt softer than the leather in the LS460 on the showroom floor.
I now have my ES for almost a week and the more I drive it, the more I appreciate it. It also gets great fuel economy and the technology is first class, especially the eDestination capability. Can you tell I love this car?