Let me guess. You're taking the best fuel economy tested with a new RXh and comparing it to the absolute worst fuel economy you could find for the ML Bluetec. Am I right? I've looked around because I was interested in what real Mercedes ML Bluetec owners were getting with their cars: 21/28 mpg. If that isn't impressive for an almost 3-ton SUV then I don't know what will please you.


A turbo is an essential component of a modern diesel engine. It is what gives them their performance. Oh, and you're essentially still comparing a gasoline engine to a diesel engine - and in this case the gasoline engine is more powerful. No wonder the RXh is quicker. Big deal.

What makes you so sure that Mercedes failed with the Bluetec ML in terms of performance? I am sure if they wanted to they could have optimized the ML in such a way that it could beat the RXh from 0-60: they just didn't. They optimized it for fuel economy and satisfactory performance. I don't see anything fail about the performance and fuel economy of the ML Bluetec. It is an amazing achievement for a vehicle this heavy as is the fuel economy of the RXh.

Oh, and the RXh you're talking about is a brand new car. The ML is how old now?



Really? The ML has several big advantages over the RX. You're way to focused on performance - and nobody, I repeat - nobody buys these cars for performance. Only twenty year-old kids on an internet forum think in that way. The people out there, the real target market of these cars have other more important considerations. The performance of the RXh and ML Bluetec to them are more than satisfactory.

If you want an ML that performs like a real sports car then go sign up for an ML63 AMG. If you want an RX that performs like a real sports car then...eh...

Lexus and Mercedes know their target demographics - you don't. If there was a market for a performance RX then Lexus would have given some serious thought to an RX-F already. They apparently have not.


You have not seen a single ML Bluetec on the road and that means nobody is buying them? Buddy, you're a genius!

No wonder I have not seen any Bugatti Veyrons on the street! Nobody is obviously buying them!!! Why didn't I think of that before?

 

DustinV, you are using what people are "saying". In my first post I used one source for all the MPG ratings. If I went by what people "said" then I can say some people claim the RXh gets 35 or 40 MPG.

For fairness, one source was used. The AMG ML has nothing to do with this conversation but its nice for you to try to bring it up to make the RX seem less desirable (I love the ML 63, a brute!).

Why is it so hard to admit the truth? The RXh is a clear winner with MPG over any diesel SUV here. Going further, it gets better MPG than most all luxury vehicles from anyone and MOST vehicles sold here.

 

You know Dustin, you said I'm pathetic, so I'm gonna take offence to it and remind you of a couple things.

So back about a year ago a bunch of guys in the LS400 forums were discussing an old Top Gear video comparing the first LS400 to its rivals and winning. Thats the link to the thread.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/ls4...s-4-0-sov.html

These are your first and third posts on this site. They were in that same thread.

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/3321258-post12.html

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/3321258-post12.html

You've basically joined a Lexus site to crap on Lexus. Not even in car chat, but in a model specific subforum. So whos pathetic?

 

These are the averages real owners seem to be obtaining. And it seems that these people tend to get above what the EPA or even the manufacturer claims for the vehicle. This is true for almost all brands.


This is an accusation, right? You're claiming I am bringing in the ML63 for the sole purpose of making the RX seem less desirable. What makes you say that?

I was trying to prove a point to Och. The performance of the ML Bluetec is satisfactory to most people. If he doesn't like it, then fine. But I try to point out my arguments with real FACTS - something he doesn't place much emphasis on.


Where have I tried to deny the achievements of the RXh in this thread? I have pointed out that the X5 and ML diesel get better mileage than what is claimed in this thread. That is all. Nowhere do I claim that the ML gets better mileage than the RX.

 

I joined a Lexus site to "crap" on Lexus? Really?

I joined this forum because my sister drives a Lexus and that sparked my interest in the brand.


So anything slightly negative about Lexus is deemed by you to be "crapping" on the brand? Geez...

Here is my first post in that LS400 thread:

Omarg: THEY MADE BMW 7 and Mb S-class without ac?? without power seats? without a radio???? OMG!!! What a rip! who in their right mind would by those?


DustinV: Different markets, different expectations. It is not a rip off at all. Europeans have long preferred to be able to select the options they want in their cars. Back in the 1970s and 1980s things like air-conditioning and automatic transmissions were considered "not needed". A radio was always standard in the 7 series and S class, always. Power seats? Are you that lazy?

On a side note, Lexus is not doing themselves any favors in Europe with their current strategy. Most Europeans feel that they don't need some of the things Lexus includes in their cars as standard. With the European brands you get to actually select what you want in the car and what not. There's a big appeal in that here. Furthermore Lexus prices in Europe have gotten so expensive that buyers by default go for the brands with a name.

The W126 Mercedes S class in the test was brought to the market in 1979, so of course the LS400 would outclass it since it didn't get any major modifications even during the facelift. These were the days when a facelift was a facelift, not an overhaul. Sure, the Lexus looks modern and dynamic but it doesn't look classy like its European competitors. Nevertheless the LS400 is my favorite LS ever.


Where do I "crap" on Lexus? I think most people here will agree with me that the Lexus strategy in Europe (or even Japan) hasn't been very good.

 

It just bogs my mind that so many members on this site simply joined because they hate Lexus, and will not admit to anything positive that Lexus does.

Seriously, Lexus is my favorite brand, and the RX is my most hated SUV. I'd much rather have the Acura (my least favorite brand) MDX, but the fact that RX-h gets 30mpg is simply astonishing. Mike, thank you for the blog.

 

Where have I ever stated how much "I hate Lexus"? Show me that post, please. Because I don't hate Lexus at all, but neither is Lexus my favorite brand. They're a good company but they don't really build anything I want.

In fact I've never really been that interested in luxury cars. Luxury cars are nice but I don't personally need to own one.

The only reason I am driving an E class is because it is a company car. And it is a nice car. But my next car, which will be a private purchase, will most likely be a simple mainstream vehicle that is great value, stylish, well-equipped, comfortable and safe: the new Citroen C5 - in diesel form.

 

Then why the hell would you join a Lexus forum to make negative posts? Not even in the general forum but in a model specific forum.

I happen to be secure about my choice of cars and you wont find me on MB or BMW forums doing this crap. But I do find it annoying that many on this site are here just to take continuous stabs at Lexus.

Look there are tons of things about the RX that I hate. I hate the minivan like dashboard, I hate the minivan style seats and armrests, I hate the new mouse controller, but its fuel economy is astonishing, period.

 

WHAT NEGATIVE POSTS?

You baffle me with your accusation. WHAT negative posts? How is criticizing a Lexus model or their company strategy in a specific market considered "negative"?

Let me tell you something. Criticism is good. It makes us/things better if we learn from it.

 

So, about the RX450h and it's fuel advantages...


Where were we? Are we still talking about fuel efficiency?

 

So what's new.

 

I like chocolate chip bacon cookies......

 

Actually what is outstanding about the ML Blutech is that gets 18/24mpg and yet is still strong enough to tow 7200lbs while still be able to go off-road

Lexus/Toyota Hybrids are not intended to go off-road nor can they tow all that much.

 

Whoa holy exageration batman.

And I see that you write this again several more times down the page. Option each one out on Lexus.com and provide the links to support a $12,000 premium. Note that the price difference between the base prices is $4110. Nevertheless, your numbers are not matching mine when I build a fully loaded RX350 or 450h.

 

1. Okay, so then this whole point is moot. Both hybrids and diesel suffer a weight penalty.
2. This is inaccurate and seems to be a myth that is rampant. The electric motors are in use when a hybrid is cruising on the highway. Otherwise the added dead weight would negate any fuel savings the hybrid offers during acceleration to highway speeds. Lexus hybrids have Kw guages that tell you how much electricity is being used. Highway speeds in the RX typically use 10 to 15 Kw. Not 0.
3. The base price of the first ML was less than that of the first RX. And it was during the same time period.