Yes, it would seem like a fairly easy and quick way to bring another hybrid to the market. And I would think that a GX450h would be quicker than the ailing 470 and more than likely be priced about the same.

One would also think that it wouldn't be too difficult to install the 3.3L, 3.5L setup into the ES, given there is already a Camry hybrid. But, I'm a social scientist not an engineer.

 

Yes, I am a "choice" guy. If my name were Mr. Green (which it isn't ), I would choose a diesel over a foreign oil dependent hybrid any day.. Torque Torque Torque for those that love to drive, tow, go...

 

Let me get this right. A hybrid is foreign oil dependent but not a diesel????

Also, a hybrid has MORE torque than a diesel as the electric motors produce countless torque immediately, thus the odd power ratings. You might want to read up on that.

 

great article, 1sicklex! the mpg on the RX450h is superb! if this was our old odyssey, we would have filled up 3 times already, and our RX450h is still on the first tank from the dealer! currently down to quarter tank, and still have over 100 KM before fill up. currently averaging (if memory serves me correctly) 8.4L/100 KM (my wife doesn't bother trying to stay within the eco gas saving band range , but i try whenever i get behind the wheel).


no problems with the battery discharged. in fact, traction battery has remain full at or above 95%, unlike my GS450h where the traction battery can fluctuate wildly within minutes of driving - but i digress, the GS450h hybrid is a totally different system than the RX450h).

don't forget also that the RX450h has a "EV mode" or electric only mode (gas engine shut off). i believe the cruising distance is around 32-35 miles or km (not sure which).

hybrid technology has come a long way since its first introduction with the toyota prius 10 years ago. it is a mature technology, and it works. 100% happy with the performance, fuel efficiency of hybrid vehicles, regardless of what people say about cost of vehicle, savings payback, (enter derogatory comment here), etc. i'm a true believer of hybrid tech, and my garage proves it.

 

Mmm, I'd like to try the EV mode. Not sure If we need it though. Was in stop and go traffic the other day with a trailer on the back. Ran all electric just like it would without towing 3,000 lbs of cargo.

As listed, the diesels on the market use more foreign oil than the hybrids available. So if thats your goal with an alternative fuel vehicle then I guess you are Mr. Black.

 

and on a side note, the RX450h can tow up to 3,500 lbs.

 

Let me clarify before you run away with things.. Diesel vehicles can run on biodiesels and need not be dependent on foreign oil. The same can't be said for hybrids at this time.

I've already did.. I'll take the 425 ft/lb of torque available from the X5 35D http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...#intro/landing

and the like...

 

Yes, that vehicle as I stated gets 22 MPG and is no faster than the RX 450h as the hybrid has more torque with its electric motors.

Nothing to clarify, nothing to run away with, we are talking about MPG and you are in here talking about torque from diesels and you are acting like diesels run on Unicorn sweat on not on foreign oil. Where do you get this stuff from?

 

R & T did 0-60 in the X5d in 6.9 seconds whereas the 450h did it in 6.2 seconds. I'll have to find that article.

 

i believe dashocker is an anti-hybrid type of person. i recall reading one of his comments somewhere to that effect. he will not accept the positive things that hybrids bring to the table.

 

Research alternative fuels including biodiesels. The cost @ the pumps will be significantly less for those who think green & want to save the green.

 

The modern day Ralph Nader

 

1) How much weight are you talking about? Is it material to a SUV with 4000+ curb weights?
2) a hybrid don't offer much advantage on the freeway. This is where diesel is a better option. The U.S. has been playing catch up on the quality of diesel fuel (high sulfur) and has higher particulate standards relative to Europe. The urea trap is a PITA but I would still take a diesel over a hybrid for the same money.
3) Those base prices you quote are for 2nd gen models. Try to sell the ML or the x5 at those prices without incentives or discounts. The base price of a 3.0i x5 was 39.9K at launch in 2001. The base price of the rx300 was 35K or 37K. The 2nd generation are markedly more expensive and launched around the start of the recession. I don't think you can say these prices are winners given people have less money, lease rates are up and disposable income / asset values are down

 

While I do think its great diesels are offered and I hope more diesels are sold, the facts are clear the RXh is cheaper and gets substantially more MPG than the ML/X5 diesels. Depending on driving habits one might prefer a diesel and lose a couple MPG on the highway over a hybrid. If one drives in the city, the RXh makes a lot more sense from a MPG standpoint.

Lets hope America gets more diesel options from the Germans.

 

1. What are you reffering to here? I'm not sure I understand what you are asking me? If diesel SUVs weigh more than 3000 lbs? I can post the weights of the SUVs in question. The unladen weight of an X5d is 5,225 lbs. For the RX450h it is 4,520 lbs.

2. How do you figure? Hybrids are a logical choice for highway driving. The RX has a 4 MPG advantage over its non hybrid counterpart. Compare that to the X5d which also has a 4 MPG advantage over its gasoline counterpart. People often forget that highways also have accidents and construction. Thus if you have to slow down or are in stop and go traffic, a hybrid is a considerably better choice than a diesel.


Furthermore you said, "The urea trap is a PITA but I would still take a diesel over a hybrid for the same money." The fact is that hybrid SUVs aren't for the same money. As I posted, they are drastically less in price, not to mention the price of gasoline is less expensive than diesel, further increasing the savings margin of a hybrid.

The U.S. has a higher standard for diesels, hence the urea systems and the fact that foreign diesel automakers cannot simply bring over a diesel and expect it to meet U.S. emissions standards. Even with low sulfur fuels.

3. I'm not sure you understand what a base price is. The prices are listed are the starting price, so before any options or fees are added, of the 450h, X5d, and ML 320 currently on sale today. Generations have nothing to do with it. It's what it on the market right now.


Don't get me wrong, diesels have their place. But the models available right now are very expensive in comparisson to other alternative fuel vehicles. Not to mention the price of diesel is back on the rise.