Some Luxury Buyers Downshift to Hyundai Genesis
Lexus Champion
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From: Southeastern PA
The Genesis would cost even more if Hyundai had to pay all that money to set up a separate dealer network. The Genesis sedan isn't horribly more expensive than a fully loaded Avalon, and is clearly cheaper than a Sequoia and a Land Cruiser, but Toyota sells all those next to a Yaris, Corolla and their Scions.
Lexus Test Driver
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There are only so many Luxury car buyers that are willing to even consider a Hyundai. It’s the perception of the car, it doesn’t emit luxury and success. When I think of a Hyundai, I still can picture the Hyundai Excel from years ago I had in college. Hyundai need to get rid of that image and start over with a different brand name for the luxury division. If they do not , that means Hyundai is either not serious about competing in the luxury car market or they have already given up.
Lexus Fanatic
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
There are only so many Luxury car buyers that are willing to even consider a Hyundai. It’s the perception of the car, it doesn’t emit luxury and success. When I think of a Hyundai, I still can picture the Hyundai Excel from years ago I had in college. Hyundai need to get rid of that image and start over with a different brand name for the luxury division. If they do not , that means Hyundai is either not serious about competing in the luxury car market or they have already given up.
People may not realize it, but the LX 570 is now an $85-90K vehicle...probably around $100K OTD with TT&T.
LS 460Ls roll off the line at $80K, $90K, and LS 600hLs often go for $115,000 or $120,000.
LF-A will arrive sometime soon and is rumored to sticker anywhere from $175,000-$300,000.
Lexus has made significant strides in brand cache in just the last few years.
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What people keep in their minds is often not accurate (or no longer accurate). The general public's mind, more often than not, lags behind (and sometimes well behind) the actual state of the auto industry and the vehicles they produce....in other words, they often live in the past. Hyundai did not use the slogan "Driving is Believing" for nothing. There was.....and is........something to it.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 11,099
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From: Southeastern PA
There are only so many Luxury car buyers that are willing to even consider a Hyundai. It’s the perception of the car, it doesn’t emit luxury and success. When I think of a Hyundai, I still can picture the Hyundai Excel from years ago I had in college. Hyundai need to get rid of that image and start over with a different brand name for the luxury division. If they do not , that means Hyundai is either not serious about competing in the luxury car market or they have already given up.
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What people keep in their minds is often not accurate (or no longer accurate). The general public's mind, more often than not, lags behind (and sometimes well behind) the actual state of the auto industry and the vehicles they produce....in other words, they often live in the past. Hyundai did not use the slogan "Driving is Believing" for nothing. There was.....and is........something to it.
-Ford/GM still suck like they did in the 1980s (they don't)
-All Honda/Toyotas are reliable and bulletproof (not so)
-Lexus is but a Toyota (not so)
-All German cars break down (not so)
etc etc
Most of the public is not that informed about cars, thus BRAND plays THE vital role of getting/keeping them. People don't want to do HW and they don't want to be in a car others might "frown" upon for the most part.
Its one of the reasons no matter how ugly, expensive, or old Toyota (and espeically Honda) is, people LINE UP to buy them.
Brand/Image.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: MA
In my opinion, Hyundai havent really done a very good job as far as branding or changing people's mind about their perception of the brand. They need to dis-assocaite the Genesis with the Hyundai brand name which stands for economy cars. They have done that to some point by debaging the Genesis of all Hyundai badges, but they need to go further. They need to treat their customers like Lexus do, they need to establish that a Genesis is not just a Hyundai with leather seats.
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In my opinion, Hyundai havent really done a very good job as far as branding or changing people's mind about their perception of the brand. They need to dis-assocaite the Genesis with the Hyundai brand name which stands for economy cars. They have done that to some point by debaging the Genesis of all Hyundai badges, but they need to go further. They need to treat their customers like Lexus do, they need to establish that a Genesis is not just a Hyundai with leather seats.
Perception and image are not important to all luxury car buyers. My brother in law that made around $300K a year (Probably under 150K now due to the financial crissis), now drives a Hyundai mini van.
Lexus Test Driver
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From: MA
CK6speed, I agree, it will take a few years if Hyundai is going to success. Perception and image are not important to all luxury car buyers, but buyer also like to buy a brand name that has a proven track record as far as quality and carftsmanship and dealer service. Some people couldn’t care less what they drive. My brother in law makes about $300,000 a year and he drives a VW GTI, then there are people like me who makes half as much and drives a Lexus. Cars mean different things to different people. As of now, Hyundai is attracting buyers with a certain mindset. A mindset that is value oriented, much like the Lexus buyers of 20 ago. 20 years from now, if these high end Hyundai are sitting next to $10000 sub compacts in their showroom, our kids will still perceive them as cheap cars.
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From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
I'm afraid we may see the same thing with Buick. Buick has had huge success with larger, easy-riding, quiet, comfortable cars that sell primarily (but not exclusively) to older people. But, if the latest LaCrosse is an example of the future, GM management may be about to force on Buick the same mistake some other luxury-car manufacturers are making.....turning their line-up into BMWs and sport sedans instead of traditional luxury cars.
Last edited by mmarshall; Apr 17, 2009 at 12:17 PM.
Lexus Fanatic
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 94,629
Likes: 280
From: Virginia/D.C. suburbs
CK6speed, I agree, it will take a few years if Hyundai is going to success. Perception and image are not important to all luxury car buyers, but buyer also like to buy a brand name that has a proven track record as far as quality and carftsmanship and dealer service. Some people couldn’t care less what they drive. My brother in law makes about $300,000 a year and he drives a VW GTI, then there are people like me who makes half as much and drives a Lexus. Cars mean different things to different people. As of now, Hyundai is attracting buyers with a certain mindset. A mindset that is value oriented, much like the Lexus buyers of 20 ago. 20 years from now, if these high end Hyundai are sitting next to $10000 sub compacts in their showroom, our kids will still perceive them as cheap cars.
But the American public, by snubbing the Phaeton, didn't hurt VW....they only denied THEMSELVES a great car at a bargain price. Why? Stubbornness, a head-in-the-sand attitude that VW couldn't do a true luxury car, and simple addiction to VW's Mercedes and BMW competition. So, Mercedes and BMW kept on charging 110-160K for a V12 luxury sedan that VW wanted maybe 90K for, while laughing all the way to the bank.
I hope we don't see the same thing with the Genesis, although, of course, the Genesis is not a 90K car or a V12. Still, the blinders need to come off the public's eyes. They need to SEE the Genesis as....yes, a Hyundai......and UNDERSTAND, once and for all, that today's Hyundais are not the junk of yesteryear.
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From: tech capital
With Saturn, though, it was the exact opposite. GM management tried to move Saturn "forward'...away from what it did so superbly in the 90's with the small, plastic-bodied cars and customer-friendly sales/service. By moving Saturn "forward", they ruined it....and brought into the mess it is in today.
I'm afraid we may see the same thing with Buick. Buick has had huge success with larger, easy-riding, quiet, comfortable cars that sell primarily (but not exclusively) to older people. But, if the latest LaCrosse is an example of the future, GM management may be about to force on Buick the same mistake some other luxury-car manufacturers are making.....turning their line-up into BMWs and sport sedans instead of traditional luxury cars.
I'm afraid we may see the same thing with Buick. Buick has had huge success with larger, easy-riding, quiet, comfortable cars that sell primarily (but not exclusively) to older people. But, if the latest LaCrosse is an example of the future, GM management may be about to force on Buick the same mistake some other luxury-car manufacturers are making.....turning their line-up into BMWs and sport sedans instead of traditional luxury cars.
Saturns years of losses speak for themselves. None of the top tier auto companies view Buick as a success in the US market, certainly nothing to emulate. Buick's success in China is obvious (having traveled there myself), but the Chinese strive to buy Mercedes and BMWs as they increase household income.
That is what killed the VW Phaeton in the American market. VW offered a great luxury car at a relatively bargain price, considering what you got. The pulic, though, didn't have enough sense to figure that out......they snubbed the car in droves, and VW finally had to discontinue it here.
Lexus Champion
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Southeastern PA
That is what killed the VW Phaeton in the American market. VW offered a great luxury car at a relatively bargain price, considering what you got. The pulic, though, didn't have enough sense to figure that out......they snubbed the car in droves, and VW finally had to discontinue it here.
But the American public, by snubbing the Phaeton, didn't hurt VW....they only denied THEMSELVES a great car at a bargain price. Why? Stubbornness, a head-in-the-sand attitude that VW couldn't do a true luxury car, and simple addiction to VW's Mercedes and BMW competition. So, Mercedes and BMW kept on charging 110-160K for a V12 luxury sedan that VW wanted maybe 90K for, while laughing all the way to the bank.
I hope we don't see the same thing with the Genesis, although, of course, the Genesis is not a 90K car or a V12. Still, the blinders need to come off the public's eyes. They need to SEE the Genesis as....yes, a Hyundai......and UNDERSTAND, once and for all, that today's Hyundais are not the junk of yesteryear.
But the American public, by snubbing the Phaeton, didn't hurt VW....they only denied THEMSELVES a great car at a bargain price. Why? Stubbornness, a head-in-the-sand attitude that VW couldn't do a true luxury car, and simple addiction to VW's Mercedes and BMW competition. So, Mercedes and BMW kept on charging 110-160K for a V12 luxury sedan that VW wanted maybe 90K for, while laughing all the way to the bank.
I hope we don't see the same thing with the Genesis, although, of course, the Genesis is not a 90K car or a V12. Still, the blinders need to come off the public's eyes. They need to SEE the Genesis as....yes, a Hyundai......and UNDERSTAND, once and for all, that today's Hyundais are not the junk of yesteryear.
The Pheaton was only $8-10K less than an A8--and you could easily rack up $10-15K worth of options to it. If I'm going to spend $75K to get a VW, why not spend $80K to get an Audi or BMW? If VW did what Hyundai is doing--priced the Pheaton WAY below the cars which it set in its targets, I'm sure it would have been much more successful.
The "some people don't care about a name" only goes so far. Very true on on a GTI, but I don't see that extending to a car marketed as a luxury car, priced 90% of the price of a lux car. If you spend 10% more, you get a lux dealership network with loaner cars, etc, and a longer warranty.
A fully loaded Genesis is less than $45K--not that much more than a fully loaded Maxima. THIS is the stategy VW should have used for the Phaeton--and if successful, they could have built on it to get to the next price point level. MB, BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Acura, Caddy, Lincoln, Jaguar, etc--do any of them have a $30K price gap between it's flagship sedan and the next level down?? It just makes no sense--that's what killed the Pheaton, and the Genesis doesn't have the same hurdle.