Car won't start - No Fuel. Need your help.
03-07-09, 01:20 PM
#1
Car won't start - No Fuel. Need your help.
Hello all, I drive a '92 SC 300 5 spd.
My car has given me all sorts of trouble in the last year and it's been tormenting me. I really want to get it fixed, because although I love my car, I am ready to be done with it, because it's been quite unreliable for me, and quite a headache.
Hopefully, I can give enough details and information to resolve my issue and at least get it running again.
The only mods I have installed is a Walbro 255 lph pump.
My problem started about a year ago. I was driving to a friends house, when all of a sudden my car died on me. After several attempts of cranking, I could not get the engine restarted, and had to tow it home the next day. After thorough researching, I found that the likely culprit of my problem, was the Fuel Pump ECU. I bypassed the ECU by running a jumper wire from B+ to FP on the diag. terminal. Well that worked fine for a little while, and then the car started to die on me intermittently. Sometimes It would drive fine, but after the car warmed up, eventually the RPM at idle would fall very low, like below ~500 RPM. Sometimes, if not for me giving the motor constant throttle to keep it afloat, the engine would not maintain an idle at all, and simply die.
It seemed after about 30 mins or so of just running at idle, the engine would eventually die. After this, I noticed the EFI main relay was unusually hot. I replaced the relay and the car ran ok for some time, (idle was still weird) and my battery was draining overnight after I had the car off. I noticed after the first time the battery died, that I could hear my fuel pump continuing to run after the car was turned off, and I could hear the fuel rushing into the return line, with the car completely off. The only thing I could do to stop this, was remove the jumper wire, which is very annoying to do every single time you want to start the car and turn it off. I'm pretty sure the fuel pump shouldn't be operating with the car off (key off, engine off) even with a jumper in.
I did more research and noticed a lot of people with fauly FP ECU's, do the 12v Fuel Pump mod. Now, I'd rather not trash my wiring or create more problems than I already have, so I just ordered a new FP ECU. After Installing the new Fuel pump ECU, when I went to crank the car, I get absolutely nothing. The fuel pump does not start whining when the key is on, engine off, Even with a jumper wire in place at Fp - B+. My CEL also does not come on when I have the KOEO. I don't seem to be getting voltage at either FP or B+ on the terminal where I had the jumper either, and obviously no voltage at the FP ECU or fuel pump itself. I'm pretty much stumped and I've tried to narrow it down to a few things it might be:
Faulty or wrong Relay - using a cheap one from the autoparts store - going to order a Toyota one.
FP ECU i ordered is faulty (unlikely)
A ground wire is not connected properly
Engine ECU is faulty and needs to be replaced
an open circuit from the fuel pump relay to the fuel pump ECU.
I've posted about this numerous times and each time I get a couple posts but no real answers. I blame myself for not giving enough details, but hopefully I provided enough this time and I can check other things with your input, suggestions and experiences.
My car has given me all sorts of trouble in the last year and it's been tormenting me. I really want to get it fixed, because although I love my car, I am ready to be done with it, because it's been quite unreliable for me, and quite a headache.
Hopefully, I can give enough details and information to resolve my issue and at least get it running again.
The only mods I have installed is a Walbro 255 lph pump.
My problem started about a year ago. I was driving to a friends house, when all of a sudden my car died on me. After several attempts of cranking, I could not get the engine restarted, and had to tow it home the next day. After thorough researching, I found that the likely culprit of my problem, was the Fuel Pump ECU. I bypassed the ECU by running a jumper wire from B+ to FP on the diag. terminal. Well that worked fine for a little while, and then the car started to die on me intermittently. Sometimes It would drive fine, but after the car warmed up, eventually the RPM at idle would fall very low, like below ~500 RPM. Sometimes, if not for me giving the motor constant throttle to keep it afloat, the engine would not maintain an idle at all, and simply die.
It seemed after about 30 mins or so of just running at idle, the engine would eventually die. After this, I noticed the EFI main relay was unusually hot. I replaced the relay and the car ran ok for some time, (idle was still weird) and my battery was draining overnight after I had the car off. I noticed after the first time the battery died, that I could hear my fuel pump continuing to run after the car was turned off, and I could hear the fuel rushing into the return line, with the car completely off. The only thing I could do to stop this, was remove the jumper wire, which is very annoying to do every single time you want to start the car and turn it off. I'm pretty sure the fuel pump shouldn't be operating with the car off (key off, engine off) even with a jumper in.
I did more research and noticed a lot of people with fauly FP ECU's, do the 12v Fuel Pump mod. Now, I'd rather not trash my wiring or create more problems than I already have, so I just ordered a new FP ECU. After Installing the new Fuel pump ECU, when I went to crank the car, I get absolutely nothing. The fuel pump does not start whining when the key is on, engine off, Even with a jumper wire in place at Fp - B+. My CEL also does not come on when I have the KOEO. I don't seem to be getting voltage at either FP or B+ on the terminal where I had the jumper either, and obviously no voltage at the FP ECU or fuel pump itself. I'm pretty much stumped and I've tried to narrow it down to a few things it might be:
Faulty or wrong Relay - using a cheap one from the autoparts store - going to order a Toyota one.
FP ECU i ordered is faulty (unlikely)
A ground wire is not connected properly
Engine ECU is faulty and needs to be replaced
an open circuit from the fuel pump relay to the fuel pump ECU.
I've posted about this numerous times and each time I get a couple posts but no real answers. I blame myself for not giving enough details, but hopefully I provided enough this time and I can check other things with your input, suggestions and experiences.
03-07-09, 05:46 PM
#2
undo your 12V mod... you will be fine.... I had same problem... finally I fixed... 12V mod... messed up not your fuel pump... but it messed up fuel pump ECU... see my previous posts.... I had same problem... undo your 12V mod... and just replace your fuel pump ECU...
03-13-09, 12:27 PM
#4
I had a faulty:
Fuel Pump ECU
Fuel Pump EFI Main Relay - MAKE SURE YOU ORDER AN OEM one.
30 amp EFI fuse
all of these repaired resulted in a purring inline 6 beast. Hope this helps anyone who is having fuel pump issues after they do replace their FP ECU.
EDIT, Spoke to soon, back to square one!
Fuel Pump ECU
Fuel Pump EFI Main Relay - MAKE SURE YOU ORDER AN OEM one.
30 amp EFI fuse
all of these repaired resulted in a purring inline 6 beast. Hope this helps anyone who is having fuel pump issues after they do replace their FP ECU.
EDIT, Spoke to soon, back to square one!
Last edited by codetoad; 03-14-09 at 01:43 PM.
03-13-09, 06:12 PM
#6
Update:
After I ran the car for some time, (45 mins or so) the engine bogged down to about 4-500 rpm, then died. I had an idle problem ever since i've been having FP ECU / Fuel system issues. My battery has been dead for sometime due to parasitic drain from the fuel pump running with the key off so I had to charge the battery to get it started originally.
I couldn't restart it after i had ran it for 45 mins and it died, and the EFI Relay was really hot. When the car shut off, I could hear the Fuel pump operating with the key off, engine off and fuel rushing into the return line. I disconnected the fuel pump ecu's harness which shut the pump off.
With the car off for some time, I checked the relay again and it was very hot to touch still. The battery for some reason is sending power to the fuel pump relay >> Fuel pump ECU when the key is off. I can hear the fuel rushing into the return line with no key in the car, granted the battery has enough voltage to operate the fuel pump.
I'm stumped still, highly frustrated, and totally got teased for a half hour of driving my car praying it was back up to par again. Now I basically think:
The Fuel Pump ECU I got off ebay is shot too.
or
The '92 manual ecu is causing the issue? (Unlikely but possible?)
other than that i'm stumped. I have a 1JZ-GTE sitting in the garage waiting to be swapped in, and i'd rather not spend money getting the 2JZ-GE computer and other parts replaced if that is the problem, but on the other hand I want it fixed for peace of mind incase it is a body electrical issue that will affect my swap from running properly as well.
I'd like to add i've posted about this numerous times and haven't had much luck at all or input on fixing it. Anyone else having fuel pump operation with Key off - Engine off and the EFI relay getting really hot with KOEO? I can't be the only with this issue....and If I somehow am, then hopefully the collective minds of these forums can get to the bottom of this to help out those who may encounter it in the future. If you read all of this, I appreciate it, and any input is welcome. I just want my car fixed
After I ran the car for some time, (45 mins or so) the engine bogged down to about 4-500 rpm, then died. I had an idle problem ever since i've been having FP ECU / Fuel system issues. My battery has been dead for sometime due to parasitic drain from the fuel pump running with the key off so I had to charge the battery to get it started originally.
I couldn't restart it after i had ran it for 45 mins and it died, and the EFI Relay was really hot. When the car shut off, I could hear the Fuel pump operating with the key off, engine off and fuel rushing into the return line. I disconnected the fuel pump ecu's harness which shut the pump off.
With the car off for some time, I checked the relay again and it was very hot to touch still. The battery for some reason is sending power to the fuel pump relay >> Fuel pump ECU when the key is off. I can hear the fuel rushing into the return line with no key in the car, granted the battery has enough voltage to operate the fuel pump.
I'm stumped still, highly frustrated, and totally got teased for a half hour of driving my car praying it was back up to par again. Now I basically think:
The Fuel Pump ECU I got off ebay is shot too.
or
The '92 manual ecu is causing the issue? (Unlikely but possible?)
other than that i'm stumped. I have a 1JZ-GTE sitting in the garage waiting to be swapped in, and i'd rather not spend money getting the 2JZ-GE computer and other parts replaced if that is the problem, but on the other hand I want it fixed for peace of mind incase it is a body electrical issue that will affect my swap from running properly as well.
I'd like to add i've posted about this numerous times and haven't had much luck at all or input on fixing it. Anyone else having fuel pump operation with Key off - Engine off and the EFI relay getting really hot with KOEO? I can't be the only with this issue....and If I somehow am, then hopefully the collective minds of these forums can get to the bottom of this to help out those who may encounter it in the future. If you read all of this, I appreciate it, and any input is welcome. I just want my car fixed
Last edited by codetoad; 03-13-09 at 06:16 PM.
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03-14-09, 01:17 PM
#8
Havent tried cleaning the MAF, but I will try that as well. I also have some leak issues after the MAF on the intake elbow i need to sort out.
What's weird is the fuel pump ecu i ordered off of ebay, which probably is faulty as well, worked fine when I installed it. The car started right up without a jumper from FP to B+. When I turned it off, the Fuel pump continued to run for a while - and this is the issue i'm most worried about. I don't know why my Fuel pump dosen't turn off when they key is off. I figure with the jumper in place it's going to run until you disconnect the battery or jumper even with the car off since it's getting power directly from the battery, but the only issue I can think of thats keeping the pump running without a jumper in place is that I have yet another faulty fuel pump ECU.
Before I drop money on a new one, or butcher my wiring doing the "12v fuel mod" (which I don't want to do since It probably wont fix anything), im going to re-install the OEM fuel pump and see if the Walbro and it's wiring has anything to do with the problem, I don't think it does, but I might as well try since i've basically exhausted everything else.
PS - After the car died the first time from about ~30 mins or so of warm start operation, I tried to restart it, it sputtered, idled extremely low (400rpm) for a second and then died.
The FP ECU dosen't seem to be kicking the fuel pump on anymore, and I have to bypass the FP ecu with a jumper now to get the pump to kick on. I don't hear the fuel pump kick on at all anymore with the key in the on position. So i'm really thinking the FP ECU I ordered off of ebay for 75 bucks, was a faulty part and I got ripped off. Nothing will **** you off more than paying good money to fix something to only get a defective part and more problems.
What's weird is the fuel pump ecu i ordered off of ebay, which probably is faulty as well, worked fine when I installed it. The car started right up without a jumper from FP to B+. When I turned it off, the Fuel pump continued to run for a while - and this is the issue i'm most worried about. I don't know why my Fuel pump dosen't turn off when they key is off. I figure with the jumper in place it's going to run until you disconnect the battery or jumper even with the car off since it's getting power directly from the battery, but the only issue I can think of thats keeping the pump running without a jumper in place is that I have yet another faulty fuel pump ECU.
Before I drop money on a new one, or butcher my wiring doing the "12v fuel mod" (which I don't want to do since It probably wont fix anything), im going to re-install the OEM fuel pump and see if the Walbro and it's wiring has anything to do with the problem, I don't think it does, but I might as well try since i've basically exhausted everything else.
PS - After the car died the first time from about ~30 mins or so of warm start operation, I tried to restart it, it sputtered, idled extremely low (400rpm) for a second and then died.
The FP ECU dosen't seem to be kicking the fuel pump on anymore, and I have to bypass the FP ecu with a jumper now to get the pump to kick on. I don't hear the fuel pump kick on at all anymore with the key in the on position. So i'm really thinking the FP ECU I ordered off of ebay for 75 bucks, was a faulty part and I got ripped off. Nothing will **** you off more than paying good money to fix something to only get a defective part and more problems.
07-26-09, 07:28 PM
#11
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I got the same problem too, and my car does NOT have the 12V mod.
At first I thought it was the fuel pump, cause it started making sputting noises; since the walboro is very loud you can hear when its switches on and off intermittently. Fist time the car stalled out , I wasn't able to restart it, but after sitting for ~2hrs and was cooled off, I was able to restart the car
So I swapped out the pump and the problem still continued (see below) after ~30mins of driving the car would die
I've also put in a relay with direct wire to battery for power. Relay triggered by factory power wire to pump
yesterday the car died on the highway after driving for ~30mins
Tried restarting it. and it ran for another min, then died again. Wasn't able to restart again. Also at some point while trying to restart the car, the car did not turn off, both the fuel pump and zeitronix (wideband; which is drawing power from the same wire as the ecu) stayed TURNED ON.
Also was not able to connect to the aem, laptop could not see it.
After main battery power was reset, did the car turn on and off normally. And I was able to connect to the aem.
Anyways I was dead on the freeway, and had to get it flatbed'd to my cousin's house
cost me $120
After it was unloaded off the flatbed I was able to restart the car again! ARGHHHH (car had 90 mins to cool off)
since the fuel pump has been changed, I'm guessing it's the fuel pump ECU that was the underlying issue
But if the fuel pump ecu was flakey, would it cause the fuel pump to stay running when the car was turned off???
What else would cause the car to stall out when it's warmed up (after ~30mins of driving)
At first I thought it was the fuel pump, cause it started making sputting noises; since the walboro is very loud you can hear when its switches on and off intermittently. Fist time the car stalled out , I wasn't able to restart it, but after sitting for ~2hrs and was cooled off, I was able to restart the car
So I swapped out the pump and the problem still continued (see below) after ~30mins of driving the car would die
I've also put in a relay with direct wire to battery for power. Relay triggered by factory power wire to pump
yesterday the car died on the highway after driving for ~30mins
Tried restarting it. and it ran for another min, then died again. Wasn't able to restart again. Also at some point while trying to restart the car, the car did not turn off, both the fuel pump and zeitronix (wideband; which is drawing power from the same wire as the ecu) stayed TURNED ON.
Also was not able to connect to the aem, laptop could not see it.
After main battery power was reset, did the car turn on and off normally. And I was able to connect to the aem.
Anyways I was dead on the freeway, and had to get it flatbed'd to my cousin's house
cost me $120
After it was unloaded off the flatbed I was able to restart the car again! ARGHHHH (car had 90 mins to cool off)
since the fuel pump has been changed, I'm guessing it's the fuel pump ECU that was the underlying issue
But if the fuel pump ecu was flakey, would it cause the fuel pump to stay running when the car was turned off???
What else would cause the car to stall out when it's warmed up (after ~30mins of driving)
Last edited by dumdumgreg; 07-27-09 at 09:54 AM. Reason: fixed typos
07-27-09, 08:51 AM
#12
This just happened to me recently on my supra, after it'd get hot, and the car would run, until I shut her off, then she wouldn't start back up. It was the EFI relay was bad, after it'd cool down she'd start, but not hot.
So maybe that might the issue too.
So maybe that might the issue too.
07-27-09, 09:52 AM
#13
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Thanks I'll swap that as well
btw: anyone know if the 30 amp EFI fuse is a standard mini blade fuse or one of those big toyota ones in the engine bay fuse box?
08-06-09, 12:20 AM
#14
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OK, I swapped my EFI main relay
and tested it today
the car idled fine for 1hr and ~40mins
which is better then dying at 30mins
but after it died I could hear the fuel pump turning on and off
it just wouldn't run consistently.
I was able to restart, but the pump sound was bothering me so I turned it off again
I waited ~5mins and restarted,
the car did run and seemed to idle, ok
But I'm still worried as it did die again today after the 1hr 40mins
I'm wondering if it might be the relay I'm using (bought from autozone)
I had ordered one from Toyota, but they sent me the wrong one!
I'll try to bypass the fuel pump ecu tomorrow and see how long the cra will stay running after that.....
if anyone has any other ideas, please chime in
thanks!
and tested it today
the car idled fine for 1hr and ~40mins
which is better then dying at 30mins
but after it died I could hear the fuel pump turning on and off
it just wouldn't run consistently.
I was able to restart, but the pump sound was bothering me so I turned it off again
I waited ~5mins and restarted,
the car did run and seemed to idle, ok
But I'm still worried as it did die again today after the 1hr 40mins
I'm wondering if it might be the relay I'm using (bought from autozone)
I had ordered one from Toyota, but they sent me the wrong one!
I'll try to bypass the fuel pump ecu tomorrow and see how long the cra will stay running after that.....
if anyone has any other ideas, please chime in
thanks!
