Advice -- shocks/strut caps versus lower control arms, ball joints and tie rod ends
Thread Starter
Lead Lap
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,566
Likes: 49
From: Illinois
Advice -- shocks/strut caps versus lower control arms, ball joints and tie rod ends
I've spent more time and done more research than I care to admit on this one. I've also exchanged PMs/e-mails with numerous other members (and probably driven them all nuts). I thought I had decided on a course of action, but I've been doing a lot of research lately, and now I'm not so sure. Here's the situation:
Car
99 GS400 with 78,000 miles
Born and raised in NJ/NY (first 6 years)
Currently residing in Chicago (last year)
Symptoms
Rough, shaky and sometimes jolting ride over uneven surfaces. Front end shakes, shimmies and shudders over sharp bumps at high speed. Under most driving conditions, the ride is fine. Currently running stock 16s for the winter. Plan on changing back to stock 17s for the spring/summer.
Possible solutions
New shocks and front strut tops (OEM, of course)
I already purchased these and they are sitting in the garage waiting to be installed.
or
Ball joints and outer tie rod ends (and possibly lower control arms)
I can't afford to do both. It's either one or the other. Which would you choose to eliminate the symptoms I'm experiencing and why? Thanks in advance for any help.
e-man
Car
99 GS400 with 78,000 miles
Born and raised in NJ/NY (first 6 years)
Currently residing in Chicago (last year)
Symptoms
Rough, shaky and sometimes jolting ride over uneven surfaces. Front end shakes, shimmies and shudders over sharp bumps at high speed. Under most driving conditions, the ride is fine. Currently running stock 16s for the winter. Plan on changing back to stock 17s for the spring/summer.
Possible solutions
New shocks and front strut tops (OEM, of course)
I already purchased these and they are sitting in the garage waiting to be installed.
or
Ball joints and outer tie rod ends (and possibly lower control arms)
I can't afford to do both. It's either one or the other. Which would you choose to eliminate the symptoms I'm experiencing and why? Thanks in advance for any help.
e-man
Last edited by e-man; Feb 28, 2006 at 05:53 PM.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 2
From: illinois
Originally Posted by e-man
I've spent more time and done more research than I care to admit on this one. I've also exchanged PMs/e-mails with numerous other members (and probably driven them all nuts). I thought I had decided on a course of action, but I've been doing a lot of research lately, and now I'm not so sure. Here's the situation:
Car
99 GS400 with 78,000 miles
Born and raised in NJ/NY (first 6 years)
Currently residing in Chicago (last year)
Symptoms
Rough, shaky and sometimes jolting ride over uneven surfaces. Front end shakes, shimmies and shudders over sharp bumps at high speed. Under most driving conditions, the ride is fine. Currently running stock 16s for the winter. Plan on changing back to stock 17s for the spring/summer.
Possible solutions
New shocks and front strut tops (OEM, of course)
I already purchased these and they are sitting in the garage waiting to be installed.
or
Ball joints and outer tie rod ends (and possibly lower control arms)
I can't afford to do both. It's either one or the other. Which would you choose to eliminate the symptoms I'm experiencing and why? Thanks in advance for any help.
e-man
Car
99 GS400 with 78,000 miles
Born and raised in NJ/NY (first 6 years)
Currently residing in Chicago (last year)
Symptoms
Rough, shaky and sometimes jolting ride over uneven surfaces. Front end shakes, shimmies and shudders over sharp bumps at high speed. Under most driving conditions, the ride is fine. Currently running stock 16s for the winter. Plan on changing back to stock 17s for the spring/summer.
Possible solutions
New shocks and front strut tops (OEM, of course)
I already purchased these and they are sitting in the garage waiting to be installed.
or
Ball joints and outer tie rod ends (and possibly lower control arms)
I can't afford to do both. It's either one or the other. Which would you choose to eliminate the symptoms I'm experiencing and why? Thanks in advance for any help.
e-man
Eric, i've said that many times but i like you buddy and will repeat once again:
1.Do your shocks (a must)
2.Send your strut mounts back to dealer
3.Instead of strut mounts get new ball joints
You'll be pleased with choice i was tell'n you before and i tell you same thing now, just wait for more feedback from others, you'll see i'm right
Lexus Champion
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,577
Likes: 1
From: Northern California
Eric, you already know my answer 
, but then again Im not as versed as the other members here on suspension. But changing my outer tie rods and ball joints made a world of difference for me, and i believe our symptoms were identical. Good luck
, but then again Im not as versed as the other members here on suspension. But changing my outer tie rods and ball joints made a world of difference for me, and i believe our symptoms were identical. Good luck
struts for sure (6yrs of ny life has killed them)
forget strut tops for now unless you can strectch your budjet for it would be prudent to buy the mounts seeing their is no extra labor charge unlike going back in after the fact
do ball joints and tie rod ends
forget strut tops for now unless you can strectch your budjet for it would be prudent to buy the mounts seeing their is no extra labor charge unlike going back in after the fact
do ball joints and tie rod ends
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: IL
e-man,
I have all the same sympton as you.
After reading the horror story on ball joint breaking on 2nd Gen GS, I immediately ordered both driver and passenger side lower ball joint from Carson Toyota.
I installed them last weekend and the car front end felt more solid than before. However, the high speed vibration between 55 - 65mph still there.
I follow a DIY guide posted in this forum and it was pretty easy. I finished both side in less than two hours( having air tool help to speed up the process). I placed my tire next to the wheel well and placed the kuckle on the tire to relieve the strain placed on the ABS sensor.
If you need help with ball joint. Give me a shout, I am in Arlington Heights area. I am willing to help if you are in the neighborhood.
I am sure the Daizen front bushing kit will take care of that. I am waiting for another member in the Chicago area to finish his first so I can learn from him on now to do it right.
Listen to LEXSOOS and you should be allright, he know his stuff.
What kind of strut did you get? OEM or aftermarket. I am still comtemplating on either getting OEM or the KYB GR-2. I am planning to put it in with stock spring. Current car has 120K miles with 16" tires.
later,
Ben
I have all the same sympton as you.
After reading the horror story on ball joint breaking on 2nd Gen GS, I immediately ordered both driver and passenger side lower ball joint from Carson Toyota.
I installed them last weekend and the car front end felt more solid than before. However, the high speed vibration between 55 - 65mph still there.
I follow a DIY guide posted in this forum and it was pretty easy. I finished both side in less than two hours( having air tool help to speed up the process). I placed my tire next to the wheel well and placed the kuckle on the tire to relieve the strain placed on the ABS sensor.
If you need help with ball joint. Give me a shout, I am in Arlington Heights area. I am willing to help if you are in the neighborhood.
I am sure the Daizen front bushing kit will take care of that. I am waiting for another member in the Chicago area to finish his first so I can learn from him on now to do it right.
Listen to LEXSOOS and you should be allright, he know his stuff.
What kind of strut did you get? OEM or aftermarket. I am still comtemplating on either getting OEM or the KYB GR-2. I am planning to put it in with stock spring. Current car has 120K miles with 16" tires.
later,
Ben
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Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,084
Likes: 2
From: illinois
Originally Posted by BLKGS4
e-man,
I have all the same sympton as you.
After reading the horror story on ball joint breaking on 2nd Gen GS, I immediately ordered both driver and passenger side lower ball joint from Carson Toyota.
I installed them last weekend and the car front end felt more solid than before. However, the high speed vibration between 55 - 65mph still there.
I follow a DIY guide posted in this forum and it was pretty easy. I finished both side in less than two hours( having air tool help to speed up the process). I placed my tire next to the wheel well and placed the kuckle on the tire to relieve the strain placed on the ABS sensor.
If you need help with ball joint. Give me a shout, I am in Arlington Heights area. I am willing to help if you are in the neighborhood.
I am sure the Daizen front bushing kit will take care of that. I am waiting for another member in the Chicago area to finish his first so I can learn from him on now to do it right.
Listen to LEXSOOS and you should be allright, he know his stuff.
What kind of strut did you get? OEM or aftermarket. I am still comtemplating on either getting OEM or the KYB GR-2. I am planning to put it in with stock spring. Current car has 120K miles with 16" tires.
later,
Ben
I have all the same sympton as you.
After reading the horror story on ball joint breaking on 2nd Gen GS, I immediately ordered both driver and passenger side lower ball joint from Carson Toyota.
I installed them last weekend and the car front end felt more solid than before. However, the high speed vibration between 55 - 65mph still there.
I follow a DIY guide posted in this forum and it was pretty easy. I finished both side in less than two hours( having air tool help to speed up the process). I placed my tire next to the wheel well and placed the kuckle on the tire to relieve the strain placed on the ABS sensor.
If you need help with ball joint. Give me a shout, I am in Arlington Heights area. I am willing to help if you are in the neighborhood.
I am sure the Daizen front bushing kit will take care of that. I am waiting for another member in the Chicago area to finish his first so I can learn from him on now to do it right.
Listen to LEXSOOS and you should be allright, he know his stuff.
What kind of strut did you get? OEM or aftermarket. I am still comtemplating on either getting OEM or the KYB GR-2. I am planning to put it in with stock spring. Current car has 120K miles with 16" tires.
later,
Ben
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Thread Starter
Lead Lap
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,566
Likes: 49
From: Illinois
Originally Posted by BLKGS4
e-man,
I have all the same sympton as you.
After reading the horror story on ball joint breaking on 2nd Gen GS, I immediately ordered both driver and passenger side lower ball joint from Carson Toyota.
I installed them last weekend and the car front end felt more solid than before. However, the high speed vibration between 55 - 65mph still there.
I follow a DIY guide posted in this forum and it was pretty easy. I finished both side in less than two hours( having air tool help to speed up the process). I placed my tire next to the wheel well and placed the kuckle on the tire to relieve the strain placed on the ABS sensor.
If you need help with ball joint. Give me a shout, I am in Arlington Heights area. I am willing to help if you are in the neighborhood.
I am sure the Daizen front bushing kit will take care of that. I am waiting for another member in the Chicago area to finish his first so I can learn from him on now to do it right.
Listen to LEXSOOS and you should be allright, he know his stuff.
What kind of strut did you get? OEM or aftermarket. I am still comtemplating on either getting OEM or the KYB GR-2. I am planning to put it in with stock spring. Current car has 120K miles with 16" tires.
later,
Ben
I have all the same sympton as you.
After reading the horror story on ball joint breaking on 2nd Gen GS, I immediately ordered both driver and passenger side lower ball joint from Carson Toyota.
I installed them last weekend and the car front end felt more solid than before. However, the high speed vibration between 55 - 65mph still there.
I follow a DIY guide posted in this forum and it was pretty easy. I finished both side in less than two hours( having air tool help to speed up the process). I placed my tire next to the wheel well and placed the kuckle on the tire to relieve the strain placed on the ABS sensor.
If you need help with ball joint. Give me a shout, I am in Arlington Heights area. I am willing to help if you are in the neighborhood.
I am sure the Daizen front bushing kit will take care of that. I am waiting for another member in the Chicago area to finish his first so I can learn from him on now to do it right.
Listen to LEXSOOS and you should be allright, he know his stuff.
What kind of strut did you get? OEM or aftermarket. I am still comtemplating on either getting OEM or the KYB GR-2. I am planning to put it in with stock spring. Current car has 120K miles with 16" tires.
later,
Ben
Did you also do the tie rod ends when you did the ball joints?
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: IL
e-man,
That is really cool for the lexus tech to change it out for you at a small fee.
I only changed the lower ball joint and did not change the outer tie rod because it was still in good shape. I did not deem the outer tie rod as much a safety issue as the lower ball joint.
If the outer tie rod does become an issue, it only take less than an hour to replace both of them.
The OEM strut does not last long. Many people reported the strut gone bad after 50K miles. I was contemplating on the KYB GR-2 or the Bilstein HD as a replacement to OEM. I think I am going to get the Tein CS from Todd at TMEngineering.instead. He is running a special on them.
later,
Ben
That is really cool for the lexus tech to change it out for you at a small fee.
I only changed the lower ball joint and did not change the outer tie rod because it was still in good shape. I did not deem the outer tie rod as much a safety issue as the lower ball joint.
If the outer tie rod does become an issue, it only take less than an hour to replace both of them.
The OEM strut does not last long. Many people reported the strut gone bad after 50K miles. I was contemplating on the KYB GR-2 or the Bilstein HD as a replacement to OEM. I think I am going to get the Tein CS from Todd at TMEngineering.instead. He is running a special on them.
later,
Ben
Thread Starter
Lead Lap
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,566
Likes: 49
From: Illinois
I agree, Ben. Replacement of the lower ball joints is a safety issue and everything else (shocks, tie rod ends, control arms, etc.) is a comfort issue. The tie rod ends are less than $100 for the pair, so I figure I'll just take care of those at the same time. Like Mark, though, the lower control arms are a much bigger investment and I just don't have the money to throw at the car right now. Maybe I'll do those later this year or next year.
On a related topic, does anyone know if it's easier to replace the lower control arms at the same time you're doing the ball joints and tie rod ends (as opposed to doing then separately)? In other words, do the LCA's need to be removed to replace the ball joints and tie rod ends? I think the answer is no, but maybe someone knows for sure.
e-man
On a related topic, does anyone know if it's easier to replace the lower control arms at the same time you're doing the ball joints and tie rod ends (as opposed to doing then separately)? In other words, do the LCA's need to be removed to replace the ball joints and tie rod ends? I think the answer is no, but maybe someone knows for sure.
e-man
Originally Posted by e-man
I agree, Ben. Replacement of the lower ball joints is a safety issue and everything else (shocks, tie rod ends, control arms, etc.) is a comfort issue. The tie rod ends are less than $100 for the pair, so I figure I'll just take care of those at the same time. Like Mark, though, the lower control arms are a much bigger investment and I just don't have the money to throw at the car right now. Maybe I'll do those later this year or next year.
On a related topic, does anyone know if it's easier to replace the lower control arms at the same time you're doing the ball joints and tie rod ends (as opposed to doing then separately)? In other words, do the LCA's need to be removed to replace the ball joints and tie rod ends? I think the answer is no, but maybe someone knows for sure.
e-man
On a related topic, does anyone know if it's easier to replace the lower control arms at the same time you're doing the ball joints and tie rod ends (as opposed to doing then separately)? In other words, do the LCA's need to be removed to replace the ball joints and tie rod ends? I think the answer is no, but maybe someone knows for sure.
e-man
lower control arm or castor arms do not need removing to do ball joint you do however have to remove brake caliper to sep tie rod end from ball joint
i do ball joints in 15 mins flat trust me , in fact i did just mine again the other day , my firend at lexus swaps them out for me each year before the parts warr expires so i can keep them fresh
dont let who evers doing the job use a pickle fork and bang on it it takes toooo long and can damamge wheel speed sensor , use a import tie rod sep avail at auto zone and that also fits the ball joint as well
Thread Starter
Lead Lap
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,566
Likes: 49
From: Illinois
Ed -- I think I asked the question the wrong way.
The question I should have asked is whether you need to remove the ball joint and outer tie rod end in order to replace the lower control arm.
The question I should have asked is whether you need to remove the ball joint and outer tie rod end in order to replace the lower control arm.
Driver School Candidate
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: IL
e-man,
If you have already changed the lower ball joint to a new one and decided to change the LCA , you will need to remove the lower ball joint from the old LCA. If you still have the old ball joint and changing it out along with the LCA , you can leave the old lower ball joint attached to the LCA since you are going to throw away both of them anyway.
As far as the outer tie rod end, if you are changing the LCA only, you do not have to take off the outer tie rod end.
If lower ball joint and LCA together, then you will need to take off the outer tie rod end from the lower ball joint.
I know it sound confusing, it will help you understand it better once you look at the service manual.
Ben
If you have already changed the lower ball joint to a new one and decided to change the LCA , you will need to remove the lower ball joint from the old LCA. If you still have the old ball joint and changing it out along with the LCA , you can leave the old lower ball joint attached to the LCA since you are going to throw away both of them anyway.
As far as the outer tie rod end, if you are changing the LCA only, you do not have to take off the outer tie rod end.
If lower ball joint and LCA together, then you will need to take off the outer tie rod end from the lower ball joint.
I know it sound confusing, it will help you understand it better once you look at the service manual.
Ben
Thread Starter
Lead Lap
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,566
Likes: 49
From: Illinois
Originally Posted by BLKGS4
e-man,
If you have already changed the lower ball joint to a new one and decided to change the LCA , you will need to remove the lower ball joint from the old LCA. If you still have the old ball joint and changing it out along with the LCA , you can leave the old lower ball joint attached to the LCA since you are going to throw away both of them anyway.
As far as the outer tie rod end, if you are changing the LCA only, you do not have to take off the outer tie rod end.
If lower ball joint and LCA together, then you will need to take off the outer tie rod end from the lower ball joint.
I know it sound confusing, it will help you understand it better once you look at the service manual.
Ben
If you have already changed the lower ball joint to a new one and decided to change the LCA , you will need to remove the lower ball joint from the old LCA. If you still have the old ball joint and changing it out along with the LCA , you can leave the old lower ball joint attached to the LCA since you are going to throw away both of them anyway.
As far as the outer tie rod end, if you are changing the LCA only, you do not have to take off the outer tie rod end.
If lower ball joint and LCA together, then you will need to take off the outer tie rod end from the lower ball joint.
I know it sound confusing, it will help you understand it better once you look at the service manual.
Ben
What about castor arms? Ed's always talking about those. Where do those fit in? Of all of these items, which wear the most? Second most?